Please post comments on the topic Development Blog Update - Unknown Worlds Videocast #4 here

1st

nice idea , i want a soon release of ns2 =(

I like the idea of a mobile siege cannon, but how will it move? Will the comm have to directly control it or will it have path finding abilities?

How are aliens supposed to deal with these things now that they are mobile?

I like the final concept. I was worried about the size at first, but if you see it compared to a soldier it has the right size.
After seeing a mobile siege the question "How and where are these sieges spawned?" rises.
If they are moving as slow as they look like (Soldiers are running faster?) then it will be an annoying task to guard the weapon from the base to the siege location.
And if you have to spawn sieges at your base only, it would really make me mad if the aliens destroy my siege for the third time before it reached it's destination.
A teleporter/big PG for the siege would be cool, but this would make the moving useless, again.

I'm waiting for the next news

I was just about to leave work and noticed this. Will definitely check out the video in a few. But mobile siege cannons spiked my interest immediately. I can picture TF2's GoldRush as inspiration, hopefully. Creating sieges at home, then the slow, difficult push forward? Hopefully some expensive way to be able to create them at mini-bases further up? ...I'll be better informed in a bit.

I don't like the idea of a MASC. If speed is slow it's useless. If it will spawn at base (without pg or something) it's useless. If u can ride on it.. you are a easy prey for aliens. If marines lose, and some marine escaped from base and get to the hive.. sieges are best and easiest way to get down the hive!.. If they are mobile, without something to get fast to hive, they are USELESS!

IMO, best when comm spawn sieges.

IF sieges can ride without marines, and noise () they are very dangerous!))

I was interested on how it would move around. Would the commander be moving it around or will there be a player with an rc controller moving it around (ok, the second part was kind of a joke). I think the final design looks really nice and I am definitely excited to see how it will react in game.

Oh, and pazzaz is always a great extension pillar. For everything.

While I'm sure the speed won't be fast, I don't think it will be excessively slow. Even if it was, having a mobile siege opens up many strategical options for both the aliens and the marines and is far from useless.

For example, a mobile siege is probably just going to roll through everything it gets near -- this includes RTs and any defense around those RTs (DC chambers, etc). The ability to just have one of these MASC (pronounced mask or mass? Or maybe Automated Siege Cannon -- pronounced ask?) with a couple of marines who can aim well could potentially shut down the alien team. For example - send the majority of marines to pressure some hive while the handful of good marines stays with the MASC and downs most of the alien RT's. Keep in mind, it can shoot RTs through walls at a distance, so the chance the aliens could find the MASC before they the RT is destroyed is pretty low. With added pressure on the hive, the aliens may not even notice their RTs being destroyed.

On the reverse side, if the aliens know that the marines are rolling out with a couple of these things - they can choose to ignore them for the minute or so it takes for them to travel and instead do a base rush to try to destroy most of the marine's buildings.

I'd say they're not really useless. Instead, they take an older idea from NS and jazz it up a bit to add more strategy and decision making. Kind of like the 'phase suit' suggestion, but a little more viable and useful.

Only commanders control the siege cannon movement, not the other players.

They don't require marines to ride on them, in most cases you probably wouldn't want to ride on them, and we don't even know for sure if the player will in fact be able to ride on them. We just thought it might be a fun little thing that the player could do.

As far as their speed, I'm sure that will be adjusted accordingly to not be too annoyingly slow, but not too fast either. And, while I don't want to hypothesize about gameplay, since that's not really my department, I'd assume since the siege cannons in their undeployed mobile state are more heavily armored and protected, they would be a lot harder to take out then when deployed. So, they wouldn't be easy prey for the aliens while on route to a hive location.

Marines like there toys and it looks and sounds fantastic so far, nice work.
And if it bombs you can put a pez dispenser on it so the troops have something to mess with while its doing its thing blocking choke points lol ----------jk .
I Hope there will be a good level of interactivity and tweaking on the part of the marines and not just a fire and forget weapon.

Sry for the long post -

Assuming the TF makes the sieges,

Ok now the actual concept of a "turret factory can take place. Imagine the War Factory of Red Alert, - as the gates of the turret factory open, out comes wheeled machine that is ready to play. (This can also be appllied to sentry turrets. ) Assuming that sieges are created around a TF (except now comes out of a TF), you are keeping to the general play style of NS1. TF needs to be upgraded, maintained, recon-ed, etc. However, you are not at all restricted to the TF for the siege to fire, you can now build 2-3 sieges, and march your caravan of marines and seiges to the siege point. The now tired but true NS1 - 'rush siege point' and 'hold it and upgrade' can still exist (for you conservative comanders), but a new method of sieging can evolve... the literal 'march sieges into siege point' in a barrage of lerk gas, skulk leaps, and gorge spit, where marines are essentially covering an objective per-se. Exciting! Im getting fired up!

Now assuming the sieges are made in spawn,

Can you imagine those NS1 tactics, fellow commanders, where you sneak a pg, tf, and 5 sieges to take out a hive in a mere 5 seconds? I love those, but those spur-of-the-moment rushes would be obsilete. Now we have to wheel these mofuggin robots all over the map, and (control them), and the only decision the commander can really make is whether or not a siege needs to be built. The rest is up to the marines. Now in NS1 with unruly marines, can you imagine putting all of the control in a Rambo's hands? "FOLLOW THE ROBOT, NO DO NOT GO THERE - UGH U ARENT EVEN GOOD UGHHH!" Having seiges built at base would take away greatly from the commander's role I believe. At the same time you are putting the weight of controlling the robots to the commander (I don't care how good of programmers you are but you need some good asszs AI to make a robot that you don't want to scream at). Imagine' defenseless WALL-Es as they struggle to survive, their only defense being 'follow waypoint to safety.'



After Thoughts :

Of course sieges HP / speed / Firepower would all need to be skewed for that perfect gameplay, but movable sieges are definately exciting. Maybe give a marine the sole objective to protect a siege? Make a siege buddy that will weld the marine as an incentive to cover it? Some type of symbiotic personal relationship of man and machine? Hell, I wouldn't mind trudging along with my personal siege cannon protecting it. It's like my own personal AWESOME-O. And I hope for the TF spawned Siege solely because marines can make little recon bases before they actually push the hive, because now hives aren't restricted to the 3 hive locations ( I heard) so gameplay should be farely new each and every game.



MY 2 CENTS I LOVE YOU ALLL

Thanks for the update, I'm really excited! You guys are doing great work :] I think this new approach to the siege cannon is going to be really fun to play

Cool video. Its nice too to be able to actually see the devs. The audio podcasts let the community 'get to know' the devs a lot more, and this takes it even further. Forum posts and blogs simply lack the personality factor.

First, I would hope that we would still have the classic siege option. Its a staple of the gameplay, and creates such amazing scenarios, completely and instantly reversing the attacking/defending roles.

I would see the mobile siege as part of the 'top tier' equipment. Very expensive, perhaps with a long, automated buildtime. A buildtime would give the Aliens a chance to be forewarned, before it even leaves the base. Then give it a movement speed of slightly less than a walking marine, a slow turn radius (so it has to slow for 90 degree turns), and a ~7 second deployment time. Ten seconds would be way too much, and 5 feels too quick, especially given that a comm would want to deploy it at least once en route to the hive to hit RTs or whatnot.

High HP while undeployed, lower while deployed. It adds the slow push gameplay that became such an amazing hit with TF2's GoldRush, while adding in the defending and economic consequences of NS' strategic overlay (i.e., if the marines fail in defending the MASC, it will actually be destroyed and they lose the resources and time spent pushing, etc, rather than having the Bomb Cart in Goldrush just slowly moving backwards).

I think it would be an amazing addition to NS, and hope it would be a complement to the commander's arsenal options, rather than a replacement. If balanced correctly, both would have their benefits and disadvantages. Maybe keep the current sieges as they are, but let the mobile siege be able to 'power up' for more or less powerful shots, allowing comms to take out chambers in one hit, etc. Or perhaps it could have a longer range; it could have a pushback effect on all lifeforms (throwing hive-healing gorges across the room); it could even have an electricity upgrade to help it be defended against lower lifeforms. So many options.

Amazing update! Much appreciated.

-Stix

Assuming these are built at base and escorted to their destination, I like the idea, I always thought sneaky ninja tactics seemed a little unlike the marines and it made more sense thematically for them to focus on slow and steady progression as a squad, claiming territory as they go.

My one beef with the final design here though is that the gun doesn't look like it can rotate. It should elevate a little higher off the base on a rotating platform IMHO.

Looks pretty awesome. I'd say a good speed would be about 75% of marine movement speed. This'd give time for marines to get ahead of the siege and check around corners, whilst not being frustratingly slow. A noisy, 10 second deploy time would not be unreasonable.

--Scythe--

The final concept looks pretty badass! I like the idea of a fairly heavily armored shell (that would be splashed with alien blood decals, scratches, corrosion marks etc...) that would open up and be vulnerable when sieging.
They would be armored enough to make it near impossible for a skulk or two to do any real damage while on its way to a hive, but still vunerable to bile bomb or whatever the equivalent will be so that's why you need a marine escort.

Just load up a marine or two with heavy armor and heavy weapons and they would be the siege escort squad for the rolling cannons. Once you get to the hive most of your team would start showing up for the actual siege from a PG.

Nice thing about new games is being able to expand on concepts. It always bothered me that siege cannons after being placed were nothing but glorified paper weights. Now as a commander I can easily make this in my base wheel it out, then bring it back in saving resources.


Great work cory

I don't think they plan to have the gun rotate 360.

Very, very cool. I love the idea.

The concept of something being tougher while undeployed is original to my knowledge, and I like that idea. It also provides incentive to undeploy the cannon as soon as aliens show up, to keep it safe while your marines fight off the assault. In turn, aliens would be encouraged to keep assaulting the cannon, to keep the incoming damage down.

As to how/where it is built, unless marine construction rules change radically, I imagine we'll still either be able to build it directly where we want it, or build the structure that builds it where we want it... Heh... Or we could build the structure that upgrades into a mobile siege cannon where we want it...

Gah, anyway! More of these videos are very welcome!

Hey Flayra and Cory, 1989 called and wants its Honey I shrunk the kids shrink gun (on a tank) back! Looks great, we better be able to get on top of it, and how is it going to be built?

sounds cool, i think it will add some great gameplay. would be interesting if marines could use it to do an occasional beacon or maybe if it held a limited number of medpacks / ammo.

Well it would be silly to force the vehicle itself to be pointed in the right direction, that would just be annoying to deal with. Even if the siege has to be locked in a certain direction when it's deployed, the comm should be able to point the gun in any direction when he deploys it without having to turn the thing around.

Man that thing looks kick ass!

I think the idea of wheeling this thing around the map is a good idea, however I also think you should be able to do something else.

Create some kind of seige phase gate. It would obviously be a right pain in the arse wheeling this thing from hive to hive. It would take an epic amount of time, and once destroyed, you're going to have to move another one of these tanks to the hive again.

To overcome this, perhaps allow the marines to be able to build a seige phase gate. That way, you can wheel extra seige cannons from base to your attacking position in a small amount of time. To stop people going ninja on a hive too easily, make it that some other struction (armory or something) has to be built before the seige phase gate can be. Also, in order to keep the seige cannons operational, some kind of power supply must be available to the seiges for them to "recharge" (after expending all their power) before they can fire again. That way, the aliens can do two things. They can either take down the seige phase gate to stop more from coming, or they can take down the power supply to stop them from recharging. If they destroy the phase gate, the existing seiges will still be able to fire. If they destroy the power source, more sieges can come in, but they can not recharge after they have fired a few/many times.

Just a though.

That's an awesome idea, like an upgradeable phasegate that can transfer heavy materials (aka siege tanks) so if theres like an outbreak at hive (ninja putting up the hive near a marine implacement) can phase through a siege tank instead of having to escourt it arround the map.
- insane designs Cory they look great even the little motor bikey one lol.

I think it would be great if marines could push the siege cannon around, rather than the commander just 'giving it orders'
it would make the option of moving it a bit more challenging and possibly more fair to the aliens?

And since it can't move by itself, marines would have to defend the siege cannon

but then again, the siege cannon looks pretty heavy, it would take quite some manpower to push it
and moving something with treads would be a bit weird too

Yeah, it's actually kind of hard to tell from the angle the siege cannon is drawn at, with the front end sections covering up part of the base that the gun is attached to, but that is actually meant to be a rotating platform base. The gun supoort "legs" and cables are all attached into that platform, so the the whole gun should be able to rotate. I don't know if it we will want it to rotate a full 360, but it should be able to swivel at least 180 degrees to fire at targets which aren't directly in front of it.

i don't think so either. as they said it can pivot on the spot, so it could just pull up the stabilizers, pivot to face the new target, then drop the stabilizers again, all while being partially deployed and still vulnerable.

this certainly opens up a lot of new gameplay possibilities, cant wait to see how everything works ingame.

great vidcast guys, it was good to see both of you talking to the camera. and once again jon fingers editing was awesome, very funny

So I go to build a siege cannon when all of a sudden...

Seems like a nice addition to the updated gameplay of ns2. Means of building it and transportation (as has been mentioned quite a few times above) makes the siege behave in a quite different way but it is hard to predict the effects since it will likely not be the only concept getting an overhaul.

Keep up the good work, I hope you get it done right. And for the love of Gorge don't release it until it is done =b

Yay update!

A commander guided turret should allow the commander a bit more depth of involvement on the battle field. I imagine they would move about walking pace (ie slower than the normal marines), be about as hard as an Onos while mobile and significantly more vulnerable when deployed.

The question of forward building them is interesting as is the issue of if they can use phase gates.

I'd like to see phase gates deployed this way too, to stop marines sneaking them up so easily. Have you considered have a generic mobile/deployable tracked base with optional "turrets", ie mobile phase gate, siege cannon, observatory, armory?

How will it assend ladders, how many will fit in a lift, what if a corridor is narrow or has a tight corner. I like the idea of mobile seiges but i can see big mapping issues with them getting stuck in various places or comms sending them down impossible routes and ahving to back track.

p.s. when the animation modeling and textures are done could you post a vid of it deploying?

It doesn't look to be any bigger than an onos, so long as mapper keep that in mind it shouldn't be a problem.

The final consept looks awsome Go fot it!

It was a little hard to get a feel of concepts (because of the limitations of the medium used), but after a second viewing I'm a good 95% behind that final concept, great work!

just a quick one - how is the siege cannon going to get down ladders ? wil the commander be limited to take the long way around?



does this mean no more sneaky sieges in vents?


OH BTW! VERY NICE VIDEO EDIT very funny and very pro

siege looks great. it would be cool if you could get lifts on the siege or do some think like the commander can move it or he can let the players control it.
and another thing would me good if the players can weld a wall round the siege.

one more thing would be great say the siege gets to a ladder or water and little rockets pop out of the side of the siege and the siege fly's up


more video cast podcast

###### yeah, siege tank!
Is it safe to assume that it's fairly sturdy while in transit, but quite vulnerable (at least to melee attacks) when deployed?

i like the idea of a moving siege! the designe of a tank still seems a bit to dominant and "human"for me personally.

i have an other idea which might be a little more difficult to realice but would rock very nasty:

what about a spider-concept? imagine a 4-leged-(spiderlike) siege that is able to moove around like a bug(like the nasty bugs in starship troopers).
that new concept would bring additional benefits: you could add a little ingamesequence that whenever the siege shall fire, it fixes itselfe to the ground by hooking its legs into the ground (so it doesnt matter which underground you stand on cause the siege is made of massive metall). another cracy but awesome benefit of this "hook into the ground thing" would be that you could attatch such a "spidersiege" even heads up or sideways on a wall (just like an insekt-and the commander could hide them on dark and high spots so the aliens would have to search the whole area very closely to find it!).
i know my idea is totally against all concepts that you guys brought up in all the hard work so far. i also understand that it might be difficult to come up with a propper movement for such "spidersieges" but i hope you may give it a shot and discuss it together cause i think it would change the gameplay in an interesting way

ps: hy anty my friend!long time not seen around!nice to see you still love NS like i do m8=)much love dude!

Potstar's got a point. Why would the TSA design something that's only usable in spaces in which there's enough room for a large trolley, and sufficient gravity to hold itself in place? A spider-esque locomotion method would be much more suitable for the claustrophobic confines of a spaceship.

--Scythe--

How are normal turrets now going to work? Will they even exist. Presumably now that the seige is mobile the turret factory changes its role slightly. Maybe it becomes the structure where seiges are produced and initially spawned but no longer their base of operation. If sieges have become mobile will normal turrets become mobile? They could be smaller like the spider sentries from doom3. However if this were to take place this would bring 3 types of AI unit in to the game, Sieges, Sentries and Weld bot. Who would control each of these units and would it take too much game play away from human to human interaction? Also would there be a unit cap on each of these ai units to prevent comms from ammassing armies of sentries welbots and seiges and jjust ignoring his rines?

ROFL! that was my favourite piece of editing from the clip

I am a marine-only player and i think this design sucks...

1. why would it look experimental... does it have features differant from the NS 1 gun like full auto sieging or the ability to kill lifeforms.

2. why is it bigger then the NS 1 siege cannon... since this is more in the future, the old bulky NS 1 gun would of evolved into something more suited for kicking ass... for example it would fire faster, do more damage, have new abilities, and look more developed... not less with exposed wiring everywhere.

One idea could of been a hovercraft design (works for Tom Servo)...

Also HOW BOUT THIS: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyZ2CD-RUCQ lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39JWZUcDbL0...feature=related <- he's shooting a shotgun while riding it lol

Anyway... how about a freekin jeep with a siege cannon on it... one that fires at a higher rate then the one in Ns1... maybe that can eliminate biological lifeforms also but is a little weak against a hive unless you get like two of them racing in where one has a machine gun to kill lifeforms while other takes hive... maybe a full auto grenade launcher like a MK19!!!!

Maybe we can have that and also have hives that can occur in any room big enough... this way we use vehicles and hunt for the hive while commander tries scanning...

Their can be jeeps that the commander can computer-control to drive to our position with weapons or to get our collective ass's out... or to supply us with heavy vehicle mounted weapons http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hml2TmDUc3E

Serioussly, presant day weaponry http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28mQ8CJ4nqY would kick alien ass in every situation lol

OMFG I THINK I FOUND A TURRET REPLACEMENT FOR NS2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nY6nm-6eCzM...feature=related

OMFG THEIR SHOOTING DOWN MORTARS OR BOMBS OR SOMETHING (83 rounds a second) LOL
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wArPao03q68...feature=related

that'll teach those damn lorks a lesson

The particle accelerator look is awesome. Make sure you give it some nice condensation effects to show that it needs to be supercooled.

Yay Update! Me love you long time! Is it sad that this made my day! Great information! Great editing!

I like the idea and concept. Probably will be a good dynamic to encourage marines to move as a group across the map.

Hard to judge how it will play in NS2. But since I love to fantasize about NS2 I'll assume just this change to NS1 and go at it. I guess the dynamics would play out like this: Assuming the norm will be "build Siege Cannon in base and escort to hive."

*Instead of "PG drop near Hive! Take it down!" it would be more like "Siege Cannon en route! Intersect! Intersect!"

*Strategy of making OCs at the "siege site" would force the siege cannon to deploy before turning the corner to take out the OCs but still too far from hive. This early deployment would give the aliens more time plus a chance to attack the cannon in the deployed stake before the actual hive siege.

*new dynamics of commander pulling a feint in one direction and sieging the other hive by turning mid way. Perhaps sending a second Siege out cannon out once the first one has attracted the of the alien team attention then once the second cannon is close to the real target the first cannon turns and then you quickly have 2 cannon on the other hive.

*aliens must track the Cannon to effectively counter it. The wider the alien scout network and the better the communication of the team then the more time they will likely have to counter a Siege-Run (I coined that term just now so start using a lot )

*Marines could establish a base a PG base at the siege site with normal turrets and hold it while the cannon is on the way. Demanding dual attention from the alien team.

*All the more reason to have 2 commanders!

*Ninja PG would have to use normal turrets and slowly push into the hive. Would be similar to the current siege but have a more slow push feel to it. Having the Marines try to creep far enough into the hive so that the turrets can offer firepower and presence to over run the hive. Why is this not done more often in servers? Two very distinct options to take down a hive. Yay for commander options!

I like it!

Also, I don't like the idea of the siege tank having to deploy within the radius of stationary building to work. The most I would accept is that a nearby power source could make it more effective... like the way a bile bombing Gorge is more effective near an MC. But looking at it that way having a marine equivalent of the MC would go against the 4 Pillars (or is it five now?)

I have to say, Jon Finger aka Mojo adds so much presentation to these, I love it. I hope you give him pie.




Hahaha... QFT.

While I may not have all the details on the game play of the sieges, I will say this, escorting the bomb in TF2 are easily my some of favourite maps for that game. Escorting or ambushing a MASC (pronounced "mask"?) certainly does have the potential to be a lot of fun.

yeah and lots of steam comming otu of it to as its cooling off

Glad to know I'm not the only one who thought siege tank.

As for the sentry turrets, I'm seeing them working something like the hl2 turrets. It would be much easier to manage the placement of the turrets if the marines can move them around at will within the tf range.

Hi,

I like the idea that a siege canon can be moved. It avoid a lot of little problems we had in NS1. "dam u com, i'm stuck now!!!"


I don't like the design.
It looks fragile. I thought (like a skulk) the wires first then the 'arms' that support the canon (niark niark).

Tanks things are designed for being mobile and strong enough to make their way without being damaged. I mean there are no parts like wires, complex mechanical devices on the external. Exept canon and wheels which are necessary elements. But for the canon, you only see the 'tube' not the main mechanism (which is in the turet).


"A propos":
-If the siege canon is a tank like thing, will it be hit boxeS ? I mean if a was a skulk i would try to disable the canon first instead of the wheels (dunno the exact name). Having different damagable parts would bring some interesting things.
-I may have missed it but : Is a marins will be able to 'ride' on it? It would be difficult to cover if the siege canon moves faster than marins.
-Do Kharras will have that kind of things for OCs ? Maybe different type of OCs?

Keep in mind that while this thing is large - maybe too large to fit through every possible hallway - it can shoot through walls. It doesn't need to be able to navigate every possible part of the map so long as it has range on the major spots (hives, double res nodes, etc).

If the siege was as small as some of you may like it, the aliens would have virtually no chance of finding it before the siege's target went down. Also, trying to justify why a smaller / more mobile design would move at the same speed as it's larger and clunker counter part (something essential to balance) seems to go against logic and could result in awkward looking animation.

This new siege cannon reminds me of the Siege Tanks from StarCraft. Rofl. They are even called the same.