I know the FAQ says blah blah it was intended for helping newbies learn NS but combat is immensely more fun.

NS the game is a joke. Its fun, it was the smartest game to be developed at its time, it still remains one of the smartest
and intense games today, etc.. But its just considered a JOKE by the rest of the game world.

Unreal, CS, Quake : Not a joke, by everyone else's measure.


Those who say NS Combat is unbalanced or turned into an xmenu/buildmenu fest dont understand what discussing the xmenu configs and
talking and testing and tweaking these options are like. There are forums where you discuss how to make
things correct. Not taking advantage of the years of knowledge from combat vets is a real put-off.

I personally feel that the official developers take high offense at xmenu/buildmenu because a) its super popular
b) gametracker shows that combat is ALWAYS in the top 5 if not TOP 3 most played version of NS
c) noobs end up having a serious NEGATIVE contribution in helping their team (i.e. a noob would have been better off on a the enemy team
or better dead the entire game)
d) the developers dont like a game that is immensely noob-unfriendly (i.e. going rhine and dying the moment you spawn for 50 minutes)

I'd like to see a serious push to get NS2 to get "recognized" as a real game by the game community. Without combat, there is NO CHANCE
for NS2 to draw anything upon the FPS scene, there is no CHANCE for NS2 to ever get recognized as a legitamate game by say, the WCG,
or CAL/CPL, etc...

Not recognizing/overlooking/pretending-they-dont-exist online communities and professional activism in gaming is going to be a serious
setback for NS2 and well, those are my two cents.

This is the first I've heard of NS classic being considered a joke while Combat is not. Care to give some examples that aren't from people with nothing but twitch-gaming history?

Ya, Usually Combat is the joke we'll Classic is the "Better" part of NS.

I only speak for myself, but as a Natural Selection 1 Developer I never took any offense to xmenu or buildmenu. I don't particularly enjoy playing with either plugin active but I also have always perferred Classic over any form of Combat.

Even if they are playing a highly modified version of Combat, they are still playing NS, and that's good. While I personally would love to see those people playing Classic instead of xmenu/buildmenu Combat I'm happy they are playing NS at all.

I'm not sure how xmenu/buildmenu Combat would be different from either Classic or vanilla Combat in this respect.

Natural Selection has a brutal learning curve for brand-new players. Vanilla Combat is definitely easier to pickup than Classic (and as you noted, that was one of its goals), but this is the first time I've heard someone claim that xmenu/buildmenu Combat is harder for new players than Classic (if that is what you are trying to say). xmenu/buildmenu Combat definitely has more to learn than just vanilla Combat, but even from the limited amount of it I've played the layout and menus make it pretty easy for even a new player to figure out how it works and what to do.

If I'm not mistaken, there are aspects of the WCG which involve(d) Battlefield2 (rip of NS in terms of gameplay) and also games like C&C or Starcraft... for strategy, which can (potentially) last a very long time.

and, the be-all-end-all of a game is not to be featured in WCG anyway
someone sounds angry... play the game for fun or don't play, simple

Combat is a joke. It's a poorly balanced game mode, even before all the game-altering plugins are added. The gameplay depth is much lower than classic mode as well.

NS had CAL support before (classic mode, not combat), so you're obviously wrong. As far as I'm concerned, combat is to NS as gungame is to CS.

Combat is like the TF2 of NS, and xmenu combat is for the Zombie Panic level players who need to be able to slap their ######s on mouse1 and get kills thanks to extremely imbalanced and anti-skill gameplay.

Also: This guy is a troll.

Is the troll under a bridge?

I don't think it's really considered a joke (at least not in the Daikatana sense of the term), it's just that nobody actually bothers learning the game. Too bad for them, we don't need the CS crew coming over to NS2 do we?



The reason I started playing NS was because it was so damn fun, you actually had stuff to do, and you needed at least some form of intelligence to play (and not just reflexes)
And as someone who started playing before the existence of Combat, everyone joining the game had to play Classic. They were usually helped (at least I helped) and those who enjoyed their experience came back. And eventually became good players.
Now with Combat, people join the game, consider Classic too complicated, and turn towards Combat and claim themselves to be NS players, without looking back to Classic. I have nothing against people who enjoy Combat, except when it steals from the Classic population.
I know you'll be saying that Combat is a first step towards Classic but it's usually not the case. You usually have only one chance to satisfy your customer, and he'll stay on his first impression. People will play NS, find Combat to be somewhat accessible, and stay there until he grows bored of NS altogether. Why bother learning to play Classic when you can play Combat? It's the same atmosphere, hell it's the same game. People usually won't look any further.




oO Did I miss something or are there versions of NS other than Classic and Combat?

While I'm not a huge fan of Combat, it helps keep the critical mass of players required low until you have enough for Classic, and it is a potential venue to practice. For example, many of my friends have learned Fade and Onos in combat since it's too expensive to have a nub Fade or Onos in classic. Some have even become game breakers that we have to balance teams around.

So, yes. Classic is what makes NS awesome. The whole RTS/FPS blend is what we love about it. Combat is merely an asymmetric FPS slug fest, something done much better in say CS or Enemy Territory. However, I wouldn't discredit it as being useless or something that we should actively persecute.

ya Really, if yall have played with the CS:S people....you don't want them on NS2 from the lot of 8-13 year olds, to the team killing craze. I just think NS2 would be killed by them.

(some CS:S players are good and nice ppl and yes I have played it enough to know NS1 is the better game.)

Did I read correctly that NS Classic was a joke? If so, then this is the type of person I will not attempt to argue against...

Natural Selection is pretty well recognized as the best of HL1 mods.

As far as the "harm" of xmenu and buildmenu, I don't really think the devs would take it as an insult. If the community is not content with something, and they have the tools to correct it themselves, then they should do so as the devs can focus on more important areas.

And hey, maybe that's the message being given by making it all in Lua now. Could that be possible? Lua makes it incredibly easy for the community to do as they please with the game.



Combat included as a primary gamemode would be a bother to me. However there are some bloodthirsty people out there that don't enjoy the strategy of NS, and so thus a Combat gamemode is likely to be made in no time (and quite likely not by one of those bloodthirsty people but by someone with talent and consideration towards those that want such a mode)...

haha, I'm sorry, but you're playing the wrong game. There's no shortage of team deathmatch FPSes out there, take your pick.

NS2 should have a tutorial and better handling of small games, but Combat is not the solution for either. It dilutes the real gameplay and divides the community. Maybe there should be a special ruleset that removes commanders and just automatically handles basebuilding, but can only be used below 6v6?

Yes, yes we do.
Well, not us, but the developers/publishers/investors do.
Money makes the world go round. $$$

basically tl;dr from what I have heard in the podcasts combat won't exist in the form we know it in NS2.

i'm glad, combat was fun for a bit but it got boring.. ns is fun enough with each game being different

This thread is full of fear mongering and retarded.

Battlefield was played in CAL, NS was played in CAL, combat was never played in CAL.

I like combat, it's fun, but the whole thread is irrelevant because if there is never a combat mode made for NS2 it's only going to take like 2 weeks for someone to release a combat mode mod for NS2. Lua is pretty much that easy to work with.

I really love the long drawn-out battles had on full 32 player NS servers, but CO presents an easier-to-get-into game that made it trivial to get badass weapons and gear that you normally wouldn't touch too often in NS mode. It
- Removed the dependency on the commander, making it a bit easier on individual marines (let's admit it -- the "pure FPS" crowd dominates, so these people really got what they like).
- Took those epic moments from regular NS play and hit you up with them non-stop (like getting chased by an onos? That's scary, huh? Here's four of them!)
- Relatively speaking, CO is pretty unique... it's basically got the same pace as any other of the more popular mods/games (CS/Quake/UT), but you've got the whole aliens vs. marines aspect going for it. I think that brought in a lot of new people and kept them in CO.

I imagine NS2 will change NS game mode to appeal to these players again. I just hope it's not done by trying to reduce the overall time the game lasts.

I'm now inspired to make a visit to the suggestions forum, so off I go...

Thats because people that play Unreal, CS and Quake are unintelligent fools who don't like any strategy above something a 5 year old could work out.

The only people who would think ns_ is a joke as opposed to a masterpiece is someone who doesn't understand it.

In conclusion, you sir, are a moron.






Now my opinion on Combat. I'm not going to say its a joke, as i think its a better game than most other online FPS' out there.

HOWEVER, i play games for one reason. Fun.

Now, what is fun on games? A well achieved, hard earned win.

Now in combat, i want to win, so i do win. Over, and over, and over. Sure, it can be fun, but these days when i play a combat map its more of a *SIGH* Time to put in all that effort to win again. It is just a strategy/tactic lacking skill fest, where the same players always dominate.

Now, something from Left4Dead developers... I dont remember the exact quote, but it was something like.... "You have to give a game high points and low points, and plenty of both. You cannot just have a game full of hardcore action, otherwise players will get burnt out and not want to play. Whereas if there are too many low points, the player just gets bored."

Natural Selection has exactly this, you have some times where youre just wandering around, building, hunting, but nothing very exciting happens. Then suddenly WHAM 5 skulks run at your squad and guns start blazing. Thats exciting. There a down side to dying, you want to live!

NS_ also has amazing strategy and tactic support. Giving every game the possibility to be different and surprising. When you win an ns_ game its like "YEAH!!! GREAT WORK TEAM!!!" (providing the other team weren't a bunch of talentless newbies). Whereas in combat, a game ends and no one really gives a ###### about who won, its not satisfying at all.

Did i mention Combat is the reason NS is not as popular as it used to be? Because it is.




In conclusion, if you like Combat more than Classic, you are still very naive and don't quite understand how Natural Selection actually works.

Infact i'd just like to point out, being a Commander, with countless years in a high level Starcraft games, i find it very easy to tell when people don't actually get what they should be doing. It's not that they go "I dont know what to do", its that they dont get the game as a whole, and find it hard to understand whats going on and what they should be doing. As a result, they end up playing as if they were playing Counter-Strike, where every life is just a little expedition to kill some stuff, and they miss the overall goal.

I think a lot of effort should be put into a very informative, but easy to understand guide to NS2. Including short movies, explaining how games work, why resource nodes are important, etc.

Woot ns_ FTW, but really Somone will (most likely) make combat for NS2, and lets face it, take players away from NS2.....(umm im going to say classic for understanding sakes) classic.

lol


don't even pretend to know anything about competitive gaming. the CPL is dead, CAL is a joke, and the WCG is mainly noted for RTS games.