Please post comments on the topic Development Blog Update - Unknown Worlds Videocast #3 here

OMG outside open areas J/K

Outside views/landmarks is what a lot of the maps in NS1 have been lackingand something only a few maps have done (machina, akaba >unreleased>, and of course my maps probably more I don't remember)

I really love this idea to give the player the idea they are part of something bigger instead of just a few hallways. Outside views will rock NS2 into the next generation.

I do hope the models will be plentyfull so we won't get the idea of clone maps. I probably will still be mapping with a combination of the modes and complex brushwork (makes it more unique imho) and unique areas won't have to be recreated in other maps)

OMG too red! You're breaking the game

Seriously though it looks great. I'm excited to see windows in rooms; I always liked the windows in lost.

As per usual, great concept art there.

ZOMG STILL TOO BRIGHT!!! MY EYES ARE BURNING!!!

just kidding, awesome concept art corey, cant wait to see what the whole level will look like.

special thanks to Mojokdirector for making the video, good to see the dev's have taken notice of your work in the forums!

the video was very funny as well - EASTERN EUROPE!

Didn't expect another 'cast this quickly...

Thanks for the cool video, Mojokdirector.

The concept art is looking nice, and I'm glad to see an emphasis on models. It seems like Valve uses models so frequently in their maps -- take cs_militia in CS:S for example, nearly everything in the house except the floor and steps are models.

It makes the map feel 'alive,' if you will.

I don't know why you guys are giving me so much credit, If Matt hadn't offered skittles and crackers I never would have done it.
I'm glad you guys like it though.

I've said it once, and I'll say it again: Skittles can be used to solve any problem. Could you imagine if Oswald had a bag of delicious yummy Skittles? He would of been too busy tastin' the rainbow to pick up that rifle.

You did a great job on this Jon. Thanks for doing it!

Blade Runner!
The outside refinery platforms look like they would be ideal for a fire fight.
How about a 'fire wall' around such a platform to prevent anyone from getting out (i.e. lerks) and then some sort of mesh-like overhead to prevent anything from flying out.
Anyways...
I'm glad its all coming together.

Beat me to it. If you guys need any more inspiration for this map, go watch that movie again.

looks like ns_metal. Sounds like a lot of maps are going to be similar to ns_bast/ns_metal

Don't listen to people complaining about lack of darkness, they don't know what they are talking about. Darkness is a cheap way to replace creativity.

Well, Natural Selection was never a thing, that could be called cheap, and always creative.
And on top of that, i really liked it, that Flayra and his Team actually improved the graphics of the old HalfLife-Engine.

Maaan, I'm so gonna get the HL2-version downloaded, when it's released.

Edit: Yeah I don't think we need that. KungFuDiscoMonkey

I think the concept art of the refinery was great.

The explanation of how you are going to balance out detail with just simple assests at different viewing direction is always something I am interested in hearing and hope you show more of that in the future.

The video was hilarious also, I hope there is more of those.

looks fantastic very funny video too


Note : the marines in the background welding open a sealed door - or are they welding it shut ?

uhmm.. thanks for quoting and contributing to the topic?!


The new concept art is awesome, great mood there.
The marines in it seems to be noobish though, because both are covering one side, while noone protects the welder guy from enemies going to come through the door

Those black/red skulks moving past the screen could have used some chuckle sounds, but I guess you aren't allowed to use these NS1 sounds from the free sound library thingy in NS2, because it's not free anymore ?!?
I'm very interested to hear something about sound effects in the following casts, because they also contribute a lot to atmosphere and you haven't told anything about that yet.
And although I'm pretty sure you'll doing a great job on the sound effects, there will probably be some disappointed players missing the old, classic sounds, if you can't really use them anymore.
If you are allowed to use the old sound, are you going to reuse as much as possible?

zoom in on the concept in the gallery section, they are definately cutting open a hole in the door, using a blowtorch....

looks pretty sweet, hope that aspect makes it into the gameplay.

I lol'd when the skulk leaped across the screen on the bioshock screencap. Also I want that skulk screensaver.

The best thing about this videocast was hearing you guys having a laugh. I know you all knew each other before, but now you are all working in the office together you must be really bonding, being daft and having a good time. That's great it makes work so much more fun and I'm sure the game will benefit from it hugely. I'm envious I'd love to get back to a working environment like this, it reminds me of my programming labs at uni in a group of mates all working together having a laugh, good times.

Looking closely on that Welding-Scene in the Concept-Art, makes me wana hear about a Wii-Version, 'cause it reminds me on MetroidPrime3:Corruption, where you had to weld some Panels.

Also if given the ability, to weld-shut some doors(most probably those which doesn't open automatically, but with a switch).

Good to hear you're making the props as modular as possible. I can see a lot of fun being had with the NS2TR.

Also were the 'copy+paste from other games' remarks a reference to Limbo of the Lost?

Thank you Mojokdirector, that was thoroughly enhanced by your contribution.

Thank you Unknown Worlds for sharing that with us. It felt especially nice to hear about how the concept art is linked to shipping, that was very encouraging. I find myself eager to here it said you guys are making a living at this ... because that will mean more games!

Coolness.

I just want you to know that I felt all warm inside when you said "we've got a lot of work to do."

There should totally be a feudal Japan landscape.

Back to reality, cool vid. Glad to hear people are thinking modular and getting a product out in mind.

Out of curiosity, how are the outside "landmarks" going to be done? Are we using actual models outside the map and then a skybox, or will all that be in the skybox skin? Sorry if my nub mapping skills are missing the obvious classic way to do this.

They're probably going to use a skycam, that scene screamed "3D SKYBOX!!" to me.

Jon Finger (Mojokdirector) must be allowed to do all video podcasts! My favorite moment was the skulk leaping over the bio shock girl.

Great direction, but I do have a question. Is there a plan for an art pack to be released at some point for us to play around with and possibly start work on level design for the upcoming ns2? You know - help take some burden from you guys with all the ns2_nancy port-over requests.

Also, this might be worth thinking about: Why does the hive have to hang from the ceiling? Is it possible that a hive tendril up from the ground or a wall, maybe a corner? It seems that the idea of how a hive exists is pretty static, and it might be worth manipulating it into all sorts of fun places.

Refinery color values are ok, but the I prefer the coloring of the first lava room, the contrasting bright and dark that is worked in there seems more effective and epic... like Shakespeare. Duh!

its too dark.!!!! only kidding

i like the blader runner/blues brothers esc ideas. I can see an oil refinery call fawley refinerey from my window, although its a few miles away across the solent water, its covered in lights and has flames licking the sky evey noe and again.

I have on suggestion, would it be possible to make it look like the map is inside a building similar to the ones in the scene. What i mean is using skylight windows you could show the structure your in towering up to some chimneys, or using an elevated walk way with a partly transparent floor you could show how high up the building is with the view down.

In the vista will the flames fare out and then on like a real refinery, Fawley the refinery near my apt, flares for about 5 secs every two mins, this may be a bit lax to create game play atmosphere but having the flames alter could be cool. Also a moving sky and chnaging toxic haze maybe cool. And if possible aircraft moving in the distance (could be evacuation craft or reenforcements?)

I'm not trying to be negative here towards NS2 at all because I absolutely love the game. I've played since the VERY beginning and it is the best and most unique game hands down. On the contrary if NS2 doesn't start some type of production aside from concept art and such which are great and all for ideas and a base to build the game off of, but if it doesn't get rolling soon it will unfortunately release too late and wont be a competitive power house like CS was and became. The biggest thing is that if it released early, people will play it and go damn this is the best mod out for HL2 and it will get recognized. Just my 2 cents.

They've claimed all the background code is ready to go like weapon firing and hits (someone want to search for that citation? i'm lazy) and so the concept art is what is being used to develop models, prefabs, the look, etc. as well as some gameplay elements (glowies).

So, the main thing is map/model dev, animation, gameplay, UI, etc. It's not like they're not developing stuff or that we're stuck in concept only mode. At least that's the impression I've been getting from the podcasts.

I'd hope so, considering when you start out with a mod all the code to handle this, as well as synchronization with the server is already there, as well as several different types of weapons (instant shot, like pistol/lmg, projectile (like grenades, gorge spit, acid rocket), and also ranged weapons (knife, various alien bites). Then it's just a matter of tweaking those to your needs. You could easily have half of the weapons in NS done by minor tweaks. Another 25% aren't too bad, but the other 25% require more modifications.




Coding is easy, art takes the time in a game like this. I hope they spend a lot of time on it. NS is by far the best looking HL1 mod, and I hope it's the best looking HL2 mod. While I personally enjoy NS for it's amazing gameplay, the masses are going to want to see amazing art before they consider buying/playing it.

figured I should just note this before anyone starts saying "NS2 isn't an HL2 mod, it's a standalone game". I realize this, but when you license the source SDK, you have all the code that modders get plus even more, so you're still just modifying existing code regardless of whether or not your final product is distributed as a mod or as a standalone game.

I see towers....



Anyone else thinking multi-layered maps?

would be cool to see dynamically scripted marines fighting skulks in the background
when the marines are winning the scripted marines in the background kill the aliens and keep moving forward.
when the aliens are winning, an onos or a fade comes through and kills the marines

That way it would feel like a bigger battle, and not just a little strike team in a small part of the world

thats a pretty awesome idea, but i'd probably spend too much time looking out the window

Can you imagine staring out the window and being like "whoa bob come check this out.

And then you hear like "awesome"

And then you hear "Holy crap that is awesom"

And then your think to your self, wow whos voice is that. Sounds like they been smoking too much, and then you turn around and theres a skulk just chillen with the two of you staring out the window and your like o wow skulks can talk

And the aliens like yeah. Jumping out to say hello is a custom of ours and you guys are rude and just shoot at us

And then the commander yells at the marines to get back to work.

And then the alien laughs at them because they don't have a comm.

Then the marines laugh at the skulk cause they do have comm now.

And the skulks starts whining aboot the good ole days.




This is not fair, their concept art is better than my 2 minute ms paint concept art

I lol'd.

The ideas presented in the last videocast will certainly make your game standout, and the use of environment and atmosphere appear to be key. I think the more you use the theme of natural selection itself, the better.

I realized with this videocast that adaptability allows for strategy. The more options of adaptation available to the players, the more strategies they can play with.

For instance, the progression of a game session where different possibilities and choices arise while playing is best when the player can do something in reaction to their discoveries. eg. the marines are being gassed, they can use grenades, a grenade launcher or heavy armor to adapt.

anyway, I was thinking about some of the ideas you were talking about and the suggestions posted here. I really like your concept of landmark areas. I think this would allow for not only the player recognition you discussed but also many strategy variations.

what if:
-the commander is re-located to a different room? would certain "spells" be available in different rooms? such as security cameras providing additional information to the marines in a motion tracking manner, control of various facility doors/machines/trains/lights (turn off for sneaking, on for assault, flashing for "danger, filled with spore towers" or "this is the hive room"), or minor passive upgrades to health, ammo, armor, or resource gain and use costs (the commander is setup in the sickbay, thus all health packs cost 20% less resources. the commander is setup in the communications room, marines re-spawn a little faster). the same ideas could be applied to the aliens with the location of their hive (faster evolution from control of the kitchen, marine movement reducing ooze secretion from control of the sanitation room or sewage pipes, quicker cloaking transition from control of the greenhouse). The possibilities for variations based on the occupation or control of a landmark location seem endless.

-certain structures can be packed up, carried, and re-deployed? maybe an exoskeleton is needed for this?

-an alien could run into a room not occupied by either side, use a special variable evolution that gave just them the landmark bonus or a similar bonus to the landmark bonus (limit one room per alien per hive)?

I understand some landmarks would be purely for visual cues and flavor, but why not have them give strategic flavor too?

Give Jaynerd a cookie. Best first post I've ever read.

cookies!

Agreed. Just be careful, if the maps get too customized in of themselves, people will have to learn the map, not just the game. This is the biggest issue for Dystopia where the objectives are different in every map, so you have to learn each map, making each map almost its own game and the core game mechanics are just how you might be able to execute your plan.

What I like about NS1 is the maps are cool and varied, but most people after a quick survey of the map know how to apply basic strategies they've built up from other maps and tweak them to the new map. Sure for the most efficient possible you still have to learn the minor details of the map, but it's not like re-learning the game and your strategies for every map.

Still, great idea. Perhaps to mitigate this, have special cues that this room will give certain bonuses, like for cameras it's always the room with a certain model (giant screens taking up a wall) and a little camera symbol on the mini map.

If this thread continues, we'll have to move it to the I&S forum.

Dont make the view too good xD... or the players will stop killin each other and enjoy the view lol.. j/k

I like the landmark idea and views of the outside, specifically, I think the view of the outside could add an epic feel if we have say some parts of the refinery outside covered in DI so that it looks like this map is only part of a much larger battle.

I also like the idea of scripted battles outside or evacuations going on, it would add lots of atmosphere. on the other hand though, I don't know if it would be worth putting tons of detail in for something that would be looked at once or twice and then mostly ignored, really depends on the work involved.

You are absolutely right spellman23, customization has to be controlled in some way. Some kind of convention could be decided on regarding the visual cue you mentioned so that all maps would use the same symbols for the same purposes. The symbols could even be "glowy"!

locallyunscene, thanks, oatmeal cc, my favorite.

Jon did a great job on the video editing, so funny.

Keep up the great work on the atmosphere, art guys.

Flayra says 3x "SO WE CAN SHIP THE GAME!" Good to see the heat is up to a simmer now, good luck.

If that came to be, maybe we could apply it to real life. Think of all the wars we could end.

Don't worry. If you stop fighting, I'll come back later with xeno. Enjoy the sights, don't let me bother you....

me too, very funny Lt_Hendrickson....


agreed, make sure its choc chip

Not too much to add - just wanted to give kudos to the vid and the regular updates - not forgetting the reguler world of the punters while youre in your ivory tower (or garage) rolling in skittles.

Elevated maps with glass floors sounded good - gives immersion and fear simultaneously.
THe 'landmark' idea is also well thought through, but a bit of variety with 'interactables' would still be quality (ie the weldable elements).

Also - have always thought that it is a bit weird that alien hives hang from the ceiling and yet no other alien structure can - ocs on the walls that skulks can hide behind and onoses can actually walk past would be nice I reckon Would also make it a bit harder for rines to find that last pesky sc.

Hi,

Videos are better than just sound.



I see glass. What happens when somebody use a Grenade Laucnher, or bile bomb it to death Pressure difference , you see... (niark niark)

did anyone ever play a CS (originial hl1 CS) map call de_747, note this is a custome de map not the cs-747 hostage rescue map.

anyway it was a bombing map on a flying 747 which was supposed to be airforce 1 or something similar. Twas an ok map but the really call thing was you could shoot out the doors of the plain and watch other players get sucked out of them. Supposing some maps had airlocks or destructable surfaces that could be opened and players get sucked out and die?

Pardon me if this has been brought up already...
But looking at this concept art, and that of the beautiful (yet, lacking the lack of light, hehe) hive in the bio-room...

I cannot help but feel that the maps are feeling much more "alive" instead of derelict, dead, desolated and defunct space platforms, now I'm almost 100% certain that's the whole point, and as such I want to state something that may either be glaringly obvious to the point everyone misses it, or that might of been overlooked.

But with these maps, I think elements that are "alive" yet out of control of either team should be added, for example:
On the refinery setting: perhaps a room where every 30 seconds a warning siren sounds "boop.. evacuate vicinity immediately" and then 2 seconds later the doors close and an immense jet of hot steam/fire passes through the room as a kind of heat-run-off chamber or a cooling room or something... perhaps with a tiny 'heat shield' in one corner for an unlucky trappedee

This would add an element of strategy (how can you use this room as an advantage?), unpredictability and feeling of lack of control that I don't remember seeing in the previous (early) maps. perhaps even affected by infestation?

similar for the bio-dome map, I can envision an air-lock/quarantine room, where if an alien steps in then perhaps the room locks-down, trapping anyone inside (lone marine, lone skulk?) and then spraying a thick mist to "cleanse" and making it very difficult to see? .. maybe there's a Node in there, and marines can use, abuse or be abused by the whole mechanism?

Just a thought