Please post comments on the topic Development Blog Update - Unknown Worlds Podcast #25 here

Yay for getting Cory Strader on board.

nice draw , i like a lot the new bio sphere

Very nice update, Im glad to hear the maps wont be so dark and gloomy this time. I know its on the old HL1 engine but if I play NS now I pretty much get depressed at all the grey when I walk around the coridores . Another good thing is that I wont be hampered by the fact I choose to not use ridiculous gamma settings so that I can see those areas that were supposed to be dark, might even out the playing field

Woot go Cory! (and yay for pig-like squealing!)

I'll edit this post after I get to listen closely to the podcast. I just wanted to voice my support. (sheesh now it feels like a race to complete ns_eis)



/me drops and SC and disappears

Nice work Cory, new yet strangely familiar. NS2 is looking better & better with every update.




Hey bty is that glowee eating the plant in the lower right part of the image ? Are they herbivores or omnivores ? Hmm I wonder it the carnivores in that ecosystem might get energy from them. If so make sure you have enough fiddling about to snack on LOL

You guys must be really busy, which is awesome.. Cool podcast too, would be interesting to find out more about your workflows, in particular the process you go through for a level.

So can we spawncamp the sperm?

awesome concept, its great to see plants in hydroponic tanks, instead of your generic sci-fi "bodies in stasis", its allways good to think outside the square.

i think the skylight will be an amazing addition, but to contrast differnent parts of the map you will still need plenty of dark areas or rooms with fluroesent lighting. if you had to walk half way across the map, passing through dimly lit corridors, glowing furnace areas, flickering lights in certain rooms, when you finally arrive to the biodome with its natural flowing light, it would make it that much more impressive.

BTW there's only one thing missing from the biodome concept - where's pauly shore? LOL

yay for update

Been a long time since last update. Nice conceptart again by Cory, got a new wallpaper

Good to hear that he's back in team. Though I was expecting something more from this podcast

look fantastic!, but i hope that not all of the tight and creepy corridors dissappear.

so whats the release date? j/k

Very awesome, defining the background of the map instead of putting brushes together aimlessly.

Please consider map dynamics as well - Source has some amazing tools with inputs and outputs, they can allow for very diverse, fascinating gameplay if used tastefully.

The hive-room is a Jetpackers paradise Blocking railing, a high ceiling and a clear vision. Every non-cloaked alien will be spotted immediately.

I think light rooms are not a good starting point for aliens.

The atmosphere is still very nice, but I don't think it fits the NS1 one.

Wait, is Jason still on the team (I know he went back to Australia)? Or is he just done with NS2 development altogether? It's to bad he couldn't stay in U.S. for a bit longer (say until NS2 actually ships =P).

Well if the dynamic infestation works the way I think it would, the room would slowly grow darker as the hive grew. The infestation would begin to spread over the walls, ceiling, and window. This way you can still have a beautiful bright and open biodome to start, but it becomes more alien friendly in appearance and function as the infestation spreads across the room.

And really, this all depends on how the game's mechanics end up working.

Thats awesome to hear Cory is in it full time.
It would be cool to see a Marine Start concept or two.
Maybe with a command chair...
...I'm having a little trouble with that room for the film.

I really can't wait to play this game.

Since most lighting in Source is pre-compiled into the map (unlike say doom3) I doubt dynamic infestation will be able to block light from the sky. I can see UWE have been influenced by the popularity of sunny FPS environments like Farcry and Dust, but it strikes me as really bad news for the team without guns.

Kind of disappointed you didn't talk more about the marines purcahsing weapons whose prototype proved so contentious following the last podcast.

Very pleased to hear squeal joining the team full time, I think his influence and inspiration it will bring a great improvement.

A bit disappointed in this latest podcast for a few reasons which I'll summarise quckly:

1. Bright Alien environments
Since Aliens are the unknown, they are supposed to be the sinister team. The way they move and attack (ambush, cloak, sudden leaps, incapacitating webs) all goes to create an eerie feel to the game when playing as a Marine. Having bright, airy Hives just doesn't fit with this mood.

It also breaks a strong design point most of NS's maps had. For me, as you enter deeper into Alien territory, the environment should feel more hostile. One of the basic trends in NS has been the movement from well-lit Marine areas to more sombre, more dangerous Alien territory. This not only creates mood but it also acts as a very subtle but very intuitive signposting system: if you're moving towards darker areas you're moving towards where the Aliens are likely to be. This makes a massive improvement to map navigation and helps new players learn maps quickly. As I say, playing with this balance is basically breaking a very effective system that can be harnessed to great reward.

2. Charlie's comment on persistent play and environments
The fact is in a multiplayer, the more you play, for every player the aethetic elements become de-emphasised (as the non-essential information gets condensed into 'chunks' in the brain's memory) and the formal elements gain a stronger focus. The fact that the Hive is more aesthetically beautiful has absolutely no impact on persistent play, it's the way it works in terms of the game's mechanics that should be receiving the greatest attention. See Jesper Juul "Half-Real: Videogames between Real Rules and Fictional Worlds" and Raph Koster "A Theory of Fun for Game Design".

3. Spaciousness and Hives
This brings me to the next major point about the concept art. Even if we ignore the general lighting scheme, the actual architectral design is very weak for an Alien Hive. It looks the size of Refinery in Bast, which is a terrible Hive for Aliens because of the vast distances they have to travel and the massive advantage Jetpackers get over all Alien lifeforms. Even if Jetpackers aren't used, Marines can still place PGs far from the Hive and still have line of sight. I understand this is a concept piece, but I really hope that whoever you have mapping this knows not to take the concept art at face value, and understands just how much it needs to be adapted from the outset to fit with NS's gameplay.

Where are the Cory grindcore piggy squeals? ;D

Ok guys just reverse a bit before you jump the gun to point out the negatives of a bright environment. Some of you are making comments about how it could disrupt the game mechanics, but you DO NOT yet know what they will be like. For example, as the infestation spreads the hive may begin to produce mist that provides them with cover, aliens might be able to cover ground faster, be more durable etc. And for the record, even in the brightest hive rooms ive rarely been in a situation where aliens do not have the upper hand fighting on their own turf (I mean the actual hive room, not siege points).

Also it would make sense that an organism like that would prefer sunlight. Most hive rooms in the current ns are near a heat source. Engine, furnace, biodome, ventilation etc. So a greenhouse would presumedly be ideal. And u assume the light is an advantage. To me those rays of light looked strong enough to obscure vision.

These issues aside, i think it is also a mistake to assume the aesthetic is unimportant, even in multiplayer. I really do think that many people have turned away from ns because it looks old. IMMERSION is so important. It makes people feel like they are part of a game, and makes them more likely to play again. Don't get me wrong, games that spend far too much time on the gloss have got the balance wrong, and an average game is the result. But, that said, i'm really looking forward to a visually impressive game.

PS: UWE team, i have not played NS in more that 18 months now. The Australian community is gone, RIP ausNS. But i know there is a community in hibernation down here... so give us an awesome game to revive it! I know you will

I imagine Cory's concept is of a hive so newly constructed that it has not yet had the time to spread infestation. I have very quickly modified Cory's concept to show what I think it might look like a few moments after the hive is built, when the infestation begins to spread. I imagine things will feel extremely hostile after a minute or two.

(the little dots everywhere are supposed to be infestation spores or something)

Looks great.
I also think that DI will add a lot of atmosphere to yet rather clean and bright scenes, especially considering that DI is also supposed to shut down some lights/light emitting computers/etc.

yay good news.

I fully agree to my foreposters, DI can get it darker and hostile, but don't overbright it. It would ruin the hostile athmosphere.

P.S: let's get a paypal account up to buy the guys an AC! ;D

Minor details, concept art is what it is, concept art. Those things will be changed as playtesting for balance occures. Dont forget how many times NS1 maps have been edited to fix balance issues, and they're still not all perfect yet.

Do Work!

i thought charlie was going to announce he or max was pregnant the way he built up corys arrival in podcast. anyways good news cos i guess lots of art is a large chunk of the development.

I like the idea of having natural sunlight and environments that look like they were inhabited until recently. Will there be a day night cycle for the sunlight?

Well, really good to see Cory's involved in NS2, will surely contribute a whole lot.
I'm not sure if I like the brighter maps yet, but I find it really hard to imagine what it'll look like ingame.

Great direction with adding some variation in the cosmetic themes. Is it possible that the cosmetic features can be incorporated into the gameplay mechanics? Certain hive locations offer diffrent bonus' for the aliens? Ie: a vegetation room like that would offer a slight bonus to upgrading the hive? While the more traditional gritty industrial room would offer more raw resources for the to draw from, but have a slower development time. Just a thought to incorporate the cosmetic and economic features of gameplay together.

Also, was it just me or did our 'piggy' friend sound a little nervous?

WOW i love the Artwork. i could't resist and made a Wallpaper =D


I'm realy looking forward to this game. i hope is going to be as great as it sounds

I honestly cannot think of any NS1 map where this applies. I can't think of too many 'dark areas' off the top of my head, however, I have jacked up my brightness to max and may have even tweaked gamma. I would assume that most players also adjust brightness, but I don't really know.

I think a much better signposting system would be DI. Instead of having predetermined dark areas around the map, DI would let the player know more efficiently that they're about to enter a hostile area and if they continue on their path eventually they'll hit a hive.

Also, I don't think a couple of bright hives are a bad idea. Even on maps with bright hives I would assume there would still be darker areas - I doubt the whole map would be as bright as a sun room. If the devs are trying to tell a story on each map, and for one map that story is "the aliens came and took over a terraforming research station" clearly there would be bright areas some of which may be hives. Who knows - maybe the next 'story' they want to tell is one of an abandoned underground mining station that's running on flickering backup power.

I just see this as a little variety, and as such, don't think it's anything to get too concerned about. Now, if every hive was a happy-bright-fun-time then I'd start to worry.



Agreed. Aesthetic elements can even become annoying when all I want to do is get some kills. It seems Charlie defined "beautiful" as an opposite of "dark and gritty." I don't think thats necessarily the case, but maybe the message that they are trying to get across is that NS2 maps aren't going to be pigeonholed into being called "cold" / "dark" / "abandoned" / etc.



Agreed. That is not an alien friendly hive, however I don't think we'd see this exact hive in the game. I even remember hearing about how hives may not have predetermined spots (I think I heard that, anyway) and at this point in the development stage maybe the dev's don't even know how they want hives to work. I'd think this concept piece was used more for getting the 'feel' of the map rather than source material for individual rooms.

A few clarifications:

I never said it was unimportant. I just believe that Charlie's comment about making it bright with longplay in mind is slightly flawed. Making it bright with the first impressions of the game in mind is a far less flawed argument.

To reiterate what Chrome said: it is highly unlikely that the UWE team has found some way to make DI affect the overall lighting. The only way this could happen is if they had the Hive (or maybe a DI_presence entity) triggering a set of lights to turn off. This would add a lot of work for mappers when creating Hive rooms (although it would be a pretty nice effect). The problem here is that it would mean Marines no longer have to check for cloaked Hives by firing at them or moving into them.

The 'mist' effect would be interesting, but there is an issue with these sort of effects creating a lot of lag (at least they did on the GoldSrc engine).

To whomever said 'plants need light to grow': artificial 'grow lamps' are in common usage today. There's nothing to say they would be less feasible in the imagined future of the NS universe. You can even see the 'plant-pods' have lights built into them. Therefore it seems safe to say the skylight is primarily an artistic choice, and one that I would argue would seem to compromise gameplay (based off the current info we have).

Lastly what I said about spaciousness still stands. This is less a concern about the CA and more one about making sure that the mapper's interpret and adapt the CA to their needs, instead of just copying it wholesale.

[EDIT]
I agree that DI would be a much more effective system, both in how it can operate procedurally (not requiring extra efforts on the part of the mapper) and also how it fits more closely with the theme. If DI did work how we all think it's going to work, then I'm fine with it replacing darkness as a signposting system.

Perhaps the brighter maps idea is an effort to minimalise the need/advantage for 'gamma hax'.

P.S. I agree with SentrySteve on all his points (although I am incredibly wary about the notion of non-mapper-defined Hive locations, but that's another discussion).

P.P.S. Almost all maps use this technique (a lot don't use it explicitly), even veil has a subtle light-dark lighting system.

Well off the top of my head, ns_veil, all the hives are darker than MS. If not in actual actual lighting, the textures are darker

That's a good point. This area of the map may not be ideal for a hive location, but the are probably other better places to create a "hive room".

Edit:

That's a non-issue since either the presence of DI will signify the hive before the lack of light, or DI can be created by other means.

Personally I don't think that it will be the end of the world if one or two maps gonna have a brighter lighting.

Yay for Cory!

Maybe it's just me but the hive looks like a big eye-ball (because of this line in the middle, like the eye of mordor or whatever it was called)

creepy!

Whatever as long as the comp play is awesome.

Most important of getting awesome comp play is to have a lot of players.
Second would be the Vet-friendly learning curve.

To get lots of people to play do whatever. Kill people, make deals with Satan, whatever.


...Is your concept art gamma hacking?

What about cloaked, growing Hives?

It would be logical that DI would only spread to announce an Alien presence once the Hive was fully grown and active. If it did so before it would alert hostiles to the presence of Hive 0 Aliens and a non-healing, non-respawning, non-functional Hive.

If a cloaked growing hive isn't putting out DI(which I agree makes the most sense), then there's no DI to block the light...

edit:typo

So what you're saying is, because we're going to eventually ignore the aesthetic elements of NS2, it needs to be dark and scary so that it's atmospheric-enough?

The current atmosphere of NS is dark and subtle and doesn't detract from gameplay. Having a bright and open environment brings it to the front, both changing the mood and making it more prominent in gameplay.

I really like the concept art and I certainly like the idea of a change of pace, though I wouldn't want all of NS2 to use this art direction. I think rather than all alien hiverooms needing to be dark and gloomy, they should instead be somewhat wild and organic in contrast to the gritty technology of the marine side. There are a number of ways to do that while mixing up the atmosphere of the map, as seen here.

Also, I wish you guys would drop more gameplay hints in the podcasts, I think that's what we all really want to hear No commitments or promises necessary, I'd just like to hear what the devs are thinking about when it comes to the actual game design.

Can you make us another wallpaper from the J! modded version? pls:)

Haven't yet listened to the podcast, but let me say one thing...

It seems like you guys are portraying "darkness" as something evil... Of course to get a good game you should not have areas where you can't see, but darkness can also be fairly well lit (so you can still see) next to brighter areas to set a contrast... To me the concept art of the hive area is too bright, it needs shadowy/darker areas. The thing that made me love NS was the fact that shadows and lights were playing nice with each other. Dark areas should use damaged/flickering lights for added danger to move in as a marine (I mean look at the NS1 trailer! That is not dark, but does feel dark and scary )

Fact is to make things look good in goldSRC and source, you have to make use off good dark/light contrast. They simply cannot live without eachother or you would either have way too dark areas or washed out areas... Kind of like taking a picture of a sunset at auto settings vs long shutterspeed+ND filter. A lot more contrast+richness of colors will be had with the manual settings.

Lights (or spots) should be used to bring areas of interest or really good architecture into focus, while darker areas can obscure the generic corridors, the combination of both will enhance atmosphere and produce hiding places (hive area unsafe for marine kind of gameplay element?). I certainly hope NS2 will not be washed out like this particular concept art hive area, which is trying to compensate the washed out bit with a colorexplosion of green...

No offence Cory just an observation of the lighting, the art itself is awesome. I'm just not a fan of the lighting theme used

I like the dark+light combo of this particular shot better, it is bright and well lit, but still has enough shadow to create the contrast that made NS1

[edit]
I'll listen to the podcast tomorrow!

I find it amusing that everyone is bagging a more brighter area when as I said in like the 4th post in this thread, lots of people tend to adjust the brightness heaps which gets rid of dark areas anyway....

Also, how cool would it be if after the hive was put up, dynamic infestation blocked out the windows so sun couldnt get in?

Making the maps brighter is intended to make it less oppressive. Since hardcore players will adjust quickly and aesthetics will be downplayed over time (as quoted earlier), this is unlikely to be an issue for them. (though they'll complain loudly at first) For newer players oppressive lighting can push them away and leave them with a bad impression. Something that's aesthetically pleasing is just naturally more welcoming and less depressing, something that NS sorely needs given that currently NS can create frustrating experiences for many people when losing. Though, I don't think it'd hurt if the infestation created more shadows.

That said, how do you create something ominous accordingly with the setting but not oppressive? It's probably a difficult balance.

exactly the reason why there should be a few really bright areas, so that any fool that turns his gamma/brightness way up will be blinded. it will finally make them keep their settings at a suitable level, so they can appreciate the whole map, and view it as the mapper intended it to look.

remember people we dont know how the dev's will use lighting effects in NS2. as wankalot said previously, those rays of light looked strong enough to obscure vision. so there could be light blur effects when looking up at the hive with the sunlight behind it.

if anyone has played DOD:source, they will notice that if they go from a dark room out into sunlight, they will be slightly blinded, or at least have their vision reduced, like in real life, and NS2 could have this same effect. so if this bright hiveroom had very dark corridors leading into it, every marine would be temporarily blinded when entering it, giving the aliens a strong advantage....

EXACLY

"BTW there's only one thing missing from the biodome concept - where's pauly shore? LOL "

wow.. one of the best comments I have seen to date.

After all the numerous dark hives, people are going to complain about ONE hive room with good lighting?? its one room, people are getting to over dramatic about it, I think its a good idea and concept, which I hope to see in game.

Also makes logical sense that after all the hives the aliens have made, they eventually hit a room that has some light in it. It's not as if they are vulnerable to light, where they would only nest in darkened rooms. Actually now that I think about it, I can remember another room that had good lighting in it, the hive in Origin, it kind of reminds me of this, and it has a lot of greenery around it also, and that worked out fine, so whats the big deal with having light in a room with a hive, especially givin the fact of how many dark hives there are.

Tis a breath of fresh air.

I may have missed a pod cast about this, so excuse me if it's a redundant question, but will the hives simply appear above gorges or will they grow out of something, like a little hivule or creep? I really like the idea of growing structures sucking energy out of their surrounding creep as they grow, to sort of tie of the loose end of big ole' structures appearing from little ole gorgies.

Ah but it isn't one room. Were talking about concept art here, this may be the only concept piece that is developed for the whole map. Imagine a whole map in that style, that's what it's about.

A noble gesture, but ultimately futile.

bind f11 "setgamma 3"
bind f12 "setgamma 1"