The more I keep thinking about what ideas & suggestions are really needed for NS2, the more it comes into focus that so much depends on the environment the gameplay takes place in. In other words, the maps / levels are also important, like as the engine that runs them and the people that play in them. Perhaps by posting this it will give others ideas too! (plus there's no place for NS2 map concepts)


Title:
Eis Mining Colony

File-name:
ns_eis

File-size:
unknown

Additional Files Needed:
New Sounds:

• reactor hum
• electrolysis machinery
• transformer hum
• creepy effects
• blizzard
• vox
• musical ambience

New Models:

• reactor core
• ceiling dome
• turbine-transmission-generator units
• photosynthesis chambers (how do you make real looking fiber optics?)
• telsa coils
• cooling towers
• TSA dropship
• fixed gun w/ barricades
• new matresses
• electrolysis vats
• robotic loading arms
• mining machinery robotics
• silver ingots
• aluminum rolls (can be pushed by onos)
• aluminum spools (can be pushed by onos)
• ore rocks (as gibs for gibshooters)
• ancient device

New Env:

• blizzard snowstorm effect
• plasma drill beam
• gravity lift particle effect
• readily evaporating water vapor effect
• fog effect (effectively reducing visibility and correct diffusion effects)
• methane fires (for ruptured lines)

HL2 entity adjustments:

• elevator (multi-floor)
• trigger_hurt improvements
• trigger_hurt negative (healing regen zone)
• one team only flags on certain entities (usally brush entities)
• modified civilian NPC's? (gagged of course)
• 1 wall mounted armor recharger (aliens can use it too as they "absorb" the nanites?)

External Enviroment:
a moon with a icy climate orbiting a gas giant planet. Atmosphere consists primarily of helium, argon, and carbon dioxide with low nitrogen and oxygen content. The weather at the time is a whiteout blizzard at -17C with 110KPH winds from the southeast. Gravity is roughly 0.75G making scientists suspect the core is made of very heavy elements for it to have such a high mass, despite it's size and surface appearance.

What is this location?
It's a mining colony, founded with the following priorities:
1. Mine and process spodumene (lithium ore), bauxite (aluminum ore), and more recently, silver and silver (II) oxide ores, into usable metal sheets (rolls), wire (spools), or ingots.
2. Process the atmosphere to having a higher oxygen content (so surface work can be done easier)

Briefing for Marines:
As you are surely aware, The TSA is in bad need of material resources due to the Kharaa spreading outward in the system near the Origin Site. All facilities in neighboring sectors have since been ordered to step up production and have received additional funding from numerous sources. This site (showing 3D schematic), the Eis Mining Colony, recently reported a fascinating find. The surface of the moon was mostly made ice and rocks containing bauxite and lithium ore as we already knew, but roughly a few hundred meters underneath the surface massive veins of silver where showing up near the main dig. Increasing silver production at this colony should have been able to solve our shortage for rare metal like silver used in some of our critical systems and even nanite production...
I say "should have" because we lost communication with this colony only a week after the silver started being included with shipments. In their last transmission to the TSA telecommunications network, they reported that the silver they excavated appeared to be pieces of some kind of ancient ruins. And more troubling, they reported strange anaerobic bacteria masses growing in the underground water which was leaking into the silver shafts that they could not identify. Their transmission submitted a file with limited but precise data on the RNA data and chemical composition of the unidentified lifeform with a request for information. Of couse, it had to be an exact match for the Kharaa.
Not surprisingly, they have not answered any of our emergency replies. Luckily, we contacted the cargo freighter before it returned to colony and it has rerouted to the nearest colony. But there is still the issue of why communications have been cut off, and "issue" that sounds all too familiar to some of the veterans here I'm sure.
I'm not going to sugar coat this ###### marines. You are being sent in on a priority search & destroy and there is no time to call for reinforcements. You should assume the worst. I don't need to tell you what the ramifications of a new infestation behind the frontlines in a new sector of space would mean. As if losing a new mining colony and all the capital invested in it wasn't bad enough...
These are your orders for this search & destroy op:
The official TSA orders are to purge the site, if infested, for the repair engineering team to restore the mining operations ASAP. They want their investment dollar back and the metal resources for the fleet. I order you to follow containment as priority one and I will take all responsibility for that order. If necessary as a last resort, sabotage the god damned fusion reactor and see if how those Kharaa ######s like the taste of a thermonuclear explosion up their collective ass! You know as well as I that we can't open a new front now. Good hunting marines!

Locations for NS2 Map:

L = location / region name, info brush entity
M = custom high-detail model required, used as NPC entity
T = custom opaque texture needed
R = hypothetical resource node site
S: {x} = custom screen display (animated texture or interactive), where {x} is what should be displayed

Fusion Reactor Core (M)
primary function: automated nuclear fusion reactor produces primary power: mining equipment, containment magnets, electrolysis, and hydrolysis consume most of that power
secondary function: nanite assembly
strategic Pro's: can siege the two resource nodes, above and below; very defensible location for a hard-to-pull-off relocation, armor charger in the room
strategic Con's: not a whole lot of room to build a base, can be a difficult place to attack marines making a last-stand given its few entry points, deactivating containment can release radiation into the room
relative location: center of the map (i.e.: reactor model origin is at the (0,0) point)

• Reaction Core Plasma Chamber
  
• Coolant Heat-Transfer Radiator
  
• Photon Transfer Fiber Optics (going to Air Cleaning)
  
• Beryllium --> High Carbon Stainless Steel --> Concrete radiation containment
  
• Static Collection rings (mind your head lest you loose it)
  
• Radiation control particle force fields (alien team can make this malfunction, flooding radiation in the area)
  
• Toroidal Field Coils (outer rings for error correction)
  
• Polodial Field Coils (primary magnet, vertical cylinder in the middle of the torus)
  
• Cryogen Liquid Helium (for superconductors operating @ ~80 Kelvin)
  
• Vacuum pipes
  
• Tritrium processing
  
• Gas fuel injectors
  
• Divertor Cassettes (attach to the bottom of each ring segment)
  
• Large gauge silver magnetic current wires
  
• Nanite assembly units

example CAD drawing worth considering in making of the model:


Turbine Generators (L) ®
primary function: converts steam pressure into mechanical energy needed to spin the generators
secondary function: injects resource "fuel" and nanites into facility
strategic Pro's: multiple resource nodes! can only be attacked from sides entrances and from openings below
strategic Con's: quite steamy (low visibility) and dark with tons of pipes and vents
relative location: above the reactor, ceiling is domed concrete structure that can be seen above the surface

• ceiling dome (M)
  
• steam intake pipes from reactor exhaust
  
• turbines (M)
  
• turbine-to-generator transmission (T)
  
• generators
  
• electrical output (T)
  
• pressure monitor (M as part of the turbine model)

Reactor Maintenance (L) ®
primary function: sublevel underneath the reactor, for both maintenance and storage of fluids
strategic Pro's: claustrophobic mess of pipes and wires, an intersection of paths for small aliens
strategic Con's: not a wise place of a lone marine to hang out, not enough room to build much
relative location: below the reactor

• foundation supports
  
• coolant pump
  
• coolant storage tanks
  
• liquid hydrogen storage tanks

Transformers (L)
primary function: adjusts voltage from the generators for the hydrolysis and molten metal electrolysis facilities
relative location: Z-axis wise, between reactor and turbines; X-Y-wise, just east of the reactor silo

• primary couplings
  
• telsa coils (M)
  
• oil-based coolant lines
  
• primary circuit breakers
  
• backup power batteries

Reactor Access Hallway (L)
primary function: contain the reactor from the rest of the habitat sector
relative location: just west of the reactor room

• Decontamination
  
• Engineer Lockers
  
• Heavy Hydraulic Doors

Reactor Control (L)
primary function: supervise and adjust the reactor incase automated control fails
relative location: actually in the reactor room still, but an enclave region looking at the reactor with diagnostic screens

• nuclear reaction plasma ring (S: theoretical output in Joules, fuel intake mixture balance lean/rich %)
  
• ignition plasma ring (S: igniting/off, % to ignition, temperature Celcius)
  
• magnetic field integrity (S, max, min, avg., current in units of magnetic field)
  
• core temperature (S: reaction temperature Celcius, chamber temperature Celcius)
  
• radiation monitor (S: photon intensity at surface in lumens, other radiation in rads)
  
• coolant flow monitor (S: evaporation rate in liters per second of liquid water, coolant intake rate in liters per second)
  
• pressure monitor (S: coolant intake pressure in atm, exhaust pressure in atm)

Reactor Access Hallway (L)
primary function: containment, separating the reactor from the rest of the habitat sector
relative location: just west of the reactor room

• Decontamination
  
• Engineer Lockers
  
• Heavy Hydraulic Doors
  
• Pressure differential via HVAC (aids in containment in the event of a leak)

Atmospheric Processing - Cryogen (L)
primary function: liquefy noble gas coolants for superconductors in the reactor (magnets) and server room (microprocessors)
relative location: between reactor and cooling towers, X-Y wise

• Intake vent from outside
  
• Dehumidifier
  
• Air distillery
  
• Liquid helium and argon storage

Atmospheric Processing - Hydrolysis (L)
primary function: uses high voltage current to break water both for atmospheric processing
relative location: between the cooling towers, cryogen plant, air recycling, and water works

• Hydrolysis vats
  
• Hydrogen packing
  
• Deuterium Creation (for reactor)

Atmospheric Processing - Main (L) ®
primary function: manages internal air content and temperature; removes excess carbon dioxide via photosynthesis, filters air, controls humidity and temperature of air
secondary function: releasing extra oxygen into the moon's atmosphere
strategic Pro's: mess of pipes and vents, an intersection of path for aliens
strategic Con's: not a wise place of a lone marine to hang out, but a devastating chokepoint to lockdown against the alien team
relative location: above the hydrolysis plant

• coolant storage tanks
  
• liquid hydrogen storage tanks
  
• photon mirrors and diffusion lenses
  
• photosynthesis chambers (M)
  
• reserve COx scrubbers
  
• HVAC unit (return ducts, filter, radiator, fans, exit ducts)

Cooling Towers (L)
primary function: cools excess reactor heat and refrigerates cryogen coolants
secondary function: releasing extra oxygen gas into the moon's atmosphere
strategic Pro's: good location for launching aerial insertions from the surface, warm
strategic Con's: low visibility from condensing water vapor
relative location: above the hydrolysis plant

• radiators
  
• two large cooling towers (only partially above the surface)
  
• oversized fan(s)
  
• catwalks

Recycling - Preprocessing (L)
primary function: separates waste types, evaporating re-usable water
relative location:

• Solid Waste Shredders
  
• Evaporative Boilers
  
• Plasma TDP (also disinfects)
  
• Conveyor for extracted solid compounds
  
• Hydrocarbon piping

Recycling - Solid Waste (L)
primary function: contain the reactor from the rest of the habitat sector
relative location: just west of the reactor room

• Decontamination
  
• Engineer Lockers
  
• Heavy Hydraulic Doors

Recycling - Water Treatment (L)
primary function: produces extremely pure liquid water for drinking and hydrolysis
relative location: just west of the reactor room

• UV Decontamination
  
• Particulate Filtration Pillars
  
• Boilers
  
• Condenser Coils

Surface (L)
strategic Pro's: can quickly get across the crater valley the colony is settled in
strategic Con's: cold and windy (slight freeze DoT + pushing force of wind?),
relative location: top of map, jagged rocks and snow dominate the scene; weather is a blizzard

note: The crater valley is saturated with oxygen exiting atmospheric processing, if you get out of range you'll suffer fatal asphyxiation from lack of oxygen and die.
(technically the map has boundary limits which could break immersion, thus this suffocation penalty discourages exploring the boundaries and thus maintaining immersion)

Marine Start (L) ®
primary function: secondary landing bay (for personnel, not cargo)
strategic Pro's: easy to mobilize from, offensive friendly design
strategic Con's: too high entropy for mid and late game defense
relative location: north of habitat sector, near to surface

• TSA dropship (M)
  
• fixed mounted guns /w barricade (M)

Lobby (L)
primary function: reception, living essentials
strategic: chokepoint junction
relative location: same level as marine start, heading towards habitat, energy production, and refinery sectors

• wall signs (T)
  
• stairwell
  
• sub-locations:
  
  • kitchen
    
  • mess hall
    
  • offices
    
  • bathrooms
    
  • showers
    
  • receptionist desk

Sleeping Quarters (L)
primary function: private room for personnel
strategic: unimportant, but serves as a buffer between areas
relative location: just above the lobby level, has windows viewing outside

• segmented rooms with sliding pneumatic automatic doors
  
• beds (need new mattresses from the ones HL2 has, (M) )
  
• personal computer (M) desks (easter egg related)

Command & Control Tower (L)
primary function: manage colony operations, security, and spaceship traffic control
strategic Pro's: can control several map entities from here, can view several security cameras, highly defensible high-ground for marines
strategic Con's: can get trapped in if marines, can be an annoyance if marines get a base here with phasegates to resource nodes
relative location: above sleeping quarters

• control panel screens (infestable)
  
• viewing windows
  
• communications

Cargo Loading (L)
primary function: lift metal rolls, plats, and spools into waiting cargo vessels for export
secondary function: import replacement parts, perishables (like food), and construction materials
strategic: heavy movable physics objects (can be used to crush other players in combat)
relative location: upper half of cargo storage

• robotic loading arms (M)
  
• aluminum sheet metal rolls
  
• aluminum wire spools
  
• silver ingot carts

Cargo Storage (L) ®
primary function: manage colony operations, security, and spaceship traffic control
strategic: heavy movable physics objects and lots of crates
relative location: lower half of cargo loading (I will try to make this a chokepoint to encourage combat here)

• silver ingot carts
• aluminum spools
• aluminum rolls

Refinery - Production (L)
primary function: casts the Al, Li, and Ag metals into ingots, sheets, or wire
strategic: heavy movable physics objects (can be used to crush other players in combat)
relative location: upper half of cargo storage

• robotic loading arms (M) (preferably controllable)
  
• aluminum sheet metal rolls
  
• aluminum wire spools
  
• silver ingot carts (M)

Refinery - Electrolysis (L) ®
primary function: extracts alumimum from alumina, extracts lithium, and produces tritium from the lithium for the nuclear reactor
relative location: upper half of cargo storage

• robotic loading arms (M) (to lift off spent anodes)
  
• electrolysis vats
  
• replacement anodes

Refinery - Crucible (L)
primary function: breaks down ore, melts, and removes some impurities
relative location: upper half of cargo storage

• robotic loading arms (M) (to lift off spent anodes)
  
• electrolysis vats
  
• replacement anodes
  
• rock hydraulic crushers (squish a player FTW!)
  
• plasma pulverizers
  
• conveyor system junction (where all of the conveyor systems converge)

Heavy Lift Shaft (L)
primary function: transports equipment, occasionally heavy ore
relative location: leading from the refinery down to the southern sector of the mines

• industrial lift (made of world polygons)

Mine Caverns (L) ®
primary function: where ore is mined
relative location: bottom of the map across the whole X-Y

• robotic mining machinery (M)
  
• plasma drills
  
• mechanical lifts
  
• gravity lift deep shafts (where silver is being extracted from)
  
• service lifts (multiple locations, really there for the sake of allowing gorges and onii to access the rest of the map quickly)
  
• local generators (can be used to turn lights on/off in an area)
  
• inaccessible areas (you can still see them but can't get there, adds to immersion and reduces claustrophobia)

Ancient Ruins (L) ®
primary function: unknown (Kharaa location, predates ns_origin in age leaving room for speculation and worry)
relative location: deepest accessible location in the map

• healing waters (any player entering it has their HP regenerated, but not structures)
  
• ancient device (M)

Some Thoughts:

The mineshafts are riddled with cracks that lead back up to the surface or other areas. Combine that with plenty of pipes needing to run through air vents throughout the base and there's going to be nowhere a skulk can't get to rather quickly. (which is important to the feel and balance in Natural-Selection) Remember, I will have high entropy (gaming map definition) in all but two areas: the reactor and the control tower. Both of those site will be very defendable for a marine relocation, but neither will have resource nodes so the marines can't just turtle up in base.

Current estimate resource node quantity count is 8. I would love to have my requested res_rate_control entity here to lower the resource income rate for all teams (i.e.: I would like more nodes in more places so teams will focus on controlling all areas and tech up slower so the map can actually be enjoyed. Kind of the opposite of the siege map, more stealth action and less charge n' cudgle action.)

I would like to utilize as many of the infestable / weldable items as possible. In a way I would like to be creating a mini-battle of light and dark -- marines turning lights on, aliens turing lights off. This concept first came to mind thanks to ns_hera in the steam hallway location.

I'm also tired of seeing NS maps be dry, metalic spaceships with no realism in enviroment cycles or purpose in design other than "hey it's a ship" and mysterious black boxes that do "things". I contemplated a greenhouse in the design, but seeing as plants require nitrogen and there is none in this whole facility it wouldn't fit. Water in all three phases will be present in most areas of the map.

In fact much of this map will be shades of gray and blue in texturing, so I'm thinking of going for orange and purple lighting in certain areas. Possible green coloring in the ancient ruins to contrast with the orange-yellow service lights in the mining tunnels and red-oranges in the refinery. In fact green will a lighting color I will purposely avoid both to unify the map's artistic theme, but it could be used in the ancient ruins as the one place that will bring attention to the naturalizing effects of D.I.




I could use some help with the modeling and as always some advice. Hopefully this gives others some ideas of what they would like out of the NS2TR and eventually NS2.

thanks for reading and I look forward to your replies,

x5

At quick glance I can see you want to make an elaborate and complicated maze. Which is fine by me of course, I like those kind of maps. I really like the planning you did already, shows some dedication.

However, I don't think the map will be popular. It sounds too complicated for the average player. I'd love to be wrong though!

Anyway, I'll read it in more detail tomorrow when I have more time.

(ps. If Flayra or some admin is reading this, please give this man NS2TR access! )

The name Eis by the way is a reference to the way the map looked when I sketched it's rough form out with graphite sticks and blending tools. (since I need the Adobe CS disk back from my friend before I can use the Wacom) The map looks kind of like an ice cream sandwich to me, and it's an icy setting on the surface anyways so I've settled on it. Eis means ice in German in case your were wondering (actually pronounced the same too which make it a pun for Euro NS players that many in the US won't get heh)


Meh, every NS map looks complicated when people first play it, until they get used to it. Almost every new official NS map was hated before it was liked. (even the staple competitive maps of ns_veil and ns_lucid)


The only hard thing for players (actually just the commander depending on what UWE does with "zooming") should be the vertical aspect. Most NS maps are kind of like shortbread cookies and not multileveled like this. (if you follow the food comparison of a flat cookie to a voluminous ice cream sandwich)

Now I am confused and hungry ... lol I like the look of it and sounds interesting to play.

I've actually just had several new ideas just come to mind while playing with this map concept. I'll have to come up with separate topics for them with their own problem & solution, pro's & con's, and examples... Stay tuned, you'll probably see a once in a life time event where I double the topics I've created in the I&S tomorrow if all goes to plan.


I already have a question, is there a way to play an .mpeg to a texture plane? If not that's a new entity request. I'd like to have it so that marines walking out of marine start through the lobby will see the big screen above the concierge desk playing an informational video / slideshow

As an amateur mapper, I know you can scroll text. See ns_ayumi ready room. As for movies, that's a bit harder. You could probably work around this with a camera a la HL2 video feeds and a separate room with pre-made textures/models.

Overall, I like the idea. Good thought out areas that make logical sense, and lots of great ideas.

I'm just a little concerned you're outdoing yourself. =] Sounds like you've got a good idea going, but the complexity seems immense and way too intricate. Pace yourself, man, don't want to see this great idea going to waste.

All this and no layout pic? Why not even just MSPaint one?

All of that exposition and no layout? A map concept is incomplete without a layout to connect all the figurative ideas together.

[Edit] Wow, I didn't even see Stix's comment before I just wrote that. It just shows the typical mapper's response here.

I'd imagine one of his reasons for not creating a layout is the fact that the NS2 gameplay has not been set in stone, or it has at least not been released to the public.

Quite possible, but even a generic linking together of all these props by area (not necessarily paths) would help visualise the idea.

I don't have much time (there is more going on on my end than you all are aware of) but I will say that yes PogoP is partly correct.

Also,

1. I do have a rough sketch but right now it's on paper literally (see reference to graphite and blending tools above) on account of the ground-zero virus forcing me to do a total HDD format (i.e. had to re-install everything).

2. Yes, I will upload sketches and I will be glad to listen your critical advice (in fact I'm counting on community input for this project).

3. As I continue to build map features I keep running into questions or feature requests entirely dependent on NS2. I'm trying to adapt all... *goes to count ideas in the "ns2 ideas.doc" draft* 8 ideas where each is currently between half a page and some are two and a half pages long.


With that said I'm running into a headache knowing what to do with the hive locations. In past versions of NS you kind of did a "four corners" thing with the hives and the marine start to make sure they are relatively equidistant in travel-time (not necessarily actual distance) and far enough apart, but in NS2 D.I. will allow you to build a hive in any valid, humid location. This does wonders for fixing gameplay (marines can't just be ###### and "lock down a hive") but means I have to consider multiple locations that would be good to infest and build a hive (alien base) at; thus, also consider the ramifications and gameplay balance of an alien base from that location. (Is it too close, too far, too small, too open, too low entropy, too high entropy, or realistic enough to assume the Kharaa would build a hive there?)

Here's what I think I'll assume for now

Marines will start in the secondary landing bay and I will assume that UWE will provide a dropship model and some other transport for the surface

Aliens will start underground in the mines, particularly in the ancient ruins room and can spread out

Relocation will be encouraged with better sites to build a base (marine start will be vulnerable to skulk and lerk harassment due to very high entropy from all of the small vent-like entrances, alien "start" will be too remote to be effective as a base and thus force aliens

Where did you get this idea from? I've seen nothing official to indicate this will be the case.

very interesting map concept i like the MS with the barricades and guns you should give the guns a ammo limit or a cooldown time so they fire non stop or the rines would have a big advantage espesualy if they keep the gunner very safe.

Perfect.

I remember something being said along those lines, maybe the first vidcast. Or maybe it was an old blog and is outdated information. It's obviously not set in stone, I think they were "looking at having many different hive locations". I couldn't tell you definitively when it was said though.

Thank you, and I wouldn't worry about those guns. If the marines insist on camping behind the guns then later in the game when aliens get silenced blinking fades (assuming the "nightcrawler" style blink idea is implemented) your being on a fixed gun will make you an easy fixed target. If the leaping skulks and blinking fades don't finish what the lerk gas started, know that those hydraulic bay doors above will be able to be opened via a control room override. (i.e.: use of communication on alien team for a "death from above" rush). So they are useful for covering an area for defense, but you can't rely on them later in the game. (actually that's how NS has always worked, an advantage but with a potential counter to it)


A bit of that yes but nothing directly promising anything of course, plus there was a topic posted about alien relocations which was met with a lot of praise
(if memory serves it went something like mixed praise reactions and then later somebody posted cons in terms of NS v3.2 and then was flamed by people saying "this is NS2, nub" and then some other people came up with addendums such as hive region brush entities (where I hive would be "build-able")

I will go under the assumption for now that aliens have a starting point and can then spread to different areas and make hives in a few of those areas.

The humidity reference is more of an annoyance of mine that lazy mappers (particularly in siege or other fun maps) aren't even attempting to make areas plausible, and it is also a reference to an effort on my part to make some of the areas I'm going to try to make that are potential locations for hives more "wet" as seen in this official concept art:



Here's that quick layout sketch is was talking about. This is rather crude as it was just done in a few minutes but I added some labels for just now for you all to get a rough idea of the vertical aspects. In this view you are looking at the map up from the south-to-north in kind of a Z-plane cross-section with two areas not sketched out on it yet: the refinery & production sector much closer in the foreground and the recycling and atmospheric sectors much father in the background.

Don't worry this is just literally the first sketch made of the map that I was referencing when writing all that stuff I wrote above. As I continue work on the generic layouts for the rooms it will become clearer what's at each location and how they connect. At least for now you can kind of see the "tree like" layout of the reactor. You can also see in this sketch where I was experimenting with having the reactor on a more open design. I segmented that in the layout I wrote above because I realized that having a model that huge plus all of the open spaces would slaughter rendering framerates unacceptably. However the overall design will stay similar. The ramp seen in the lower right side the main equipment platform is a descending-slope rack & pinion type of lift, great for getting a whole squad of heavies, several onii, or vehicles up and down. It's hard to tell from this view but it heads "outward" from a recessed position. There are also several ore and personnel lifts from the mines to other parts of the facility. Since the rooms haven't been fleshed out it's hard to know where the vents and pipes go, but suffice to say it should be very easy for skulks to get around the entire map with haste. If there are different heights (z-axis) for the clipboxes of the different alien classes.

I see the surface as jagged yet related with snowbanks on each southeastern side, gray skies, a low-to-no damage trigger_hurt for freeze damage for most of that area, and some means to create a snow effect (the low visibility would be ideal for making aerial combat close & personal). If I can't get weather effects from the game's engine then I'll probably just settle for wind with a slight push effect at elevation. The surface could be a clever means for lerks, fades, and jetpacks to circumvent chokepoints below and come at the enemy from an unexpected angle. I'm struggling with an effective means to make it accessible yet not become a problem for traveling too high and seeing too much of the surface (which would be bad for render speeds).

After I get a rough idea of the lay out for several of the main rooms conceptualized I'll be able to give you a much needed x-y view and update this image as well.

...from the community.

The community doesn't always take everything into consideration. I see a few potential problems with dropping Hives anywhere, namely griefers or noobs could drop a Hive somewhere completely unsuitable and waste a Hive.

The big point though is that this wouldn't really change mapping design: in a map you would have to create at least 3 well balanced Hive locations: areas where the Hive would be accessible from on top, where the area was defensible for Aliens with non-Marine paths such as vents, etc.. While it would be possible to build in other locations, this option would become essentially moot because no team would want to build in crap locations. It'd be the equivalent of DC first and then getting SC as the second chamber - sure it is an option, but it's an unbelievably tactically unsound one.

Tbh from a mapper's perspective being able to build a Hive anywhere isn't all that alluring - it makes my job much more difficult because I have to design the map around an infinite amount of possibilities. Mappers simply won't do this, they'll create maps with 3 or possibly 4 feasible Hive spots and balance it for that. I can't see the additional development time spent on this feature paying off really.

Btw I think DI tunnels is the only thing that has been mentioned with some sense of officiality, but even that wasn't totally confirmed.

Crispy, wouldn't it be possible with a dynamic hive location being a possibility, that a map might reflect less a need for balance and just draw up the kind of map you would like to do regardless of play, then just let the players decide what the best set up is?

NS1 gave us a bit of dynamism with Kharaa starting in 3 different locations, what if NS2 went to 1 original spawn for Kharaa or more possible original spawns for Marines?

I guess what I am trying to say is, if its going to be an outcome you can't predict, why not just circumvent it by building a map that you would want to and not considering the various base locations beyond "this room is big enough"?

There is that argument, but there's so much more to designing a (good) Hive room than just 'Is the room big enough?'. There's how well-suited the room is to ALL Alien lifeforms, there's how biased the adjoining rooms and corridors are to Marine sieges or camping... There's so much to consider it's easier to quote myself:


There are plenty of Hives that fail, even though they were designed as Hives:
- Refinery in ns_bast
- AE32 in ns_ayumi
- Pressure Control in ns_ayumi
- Mother in ns_nancy
- Port Engine in ns_nancy
- Sub in ns_nancy
- Viaduct in ns_nothing
- Power Silo in ns_nothing

I understand your argument that players will settle on the best scenarios however suitable the most suitable Hive spots are. But when making a map for NS you want the Hives to be really well balanced to allow even teams an even chance.

What you're saying is that there'll be more choice so there will be more flexible strategies. While this may be true in the early days of NS2, eventually the winning strategies will end up with 3 basic Hive locations -the best possible 3- that will be chosen over and over. Anyone straying from that norm (as with people trying to drop SC or, even more so, DC first) will be shunned by everyone on the server for choosing a weaker strategy with less chances of victory.

It would be much more preferable to allow the mapper to design dedicated Hive locations and balance the map around it.

I agree Crispy, those are very good points, important things to consider so a hive is viable as a base to utilize what is fun about being a Kharaa. May I revise my point a bit then? I was envisioning more rooms like you describe, rather than the cap set at 3 - sorta like, a very good portion of the map are in fact "hive" rooms interconnected. I would hope this would result in more varied map shapes, where as I can pretty safely think of NS1 maps as diamonds/squares with four corners, I would just be impressed if NS2 was say, more of a octagon (or whatever shape that results in more corners), the idea being that the start of a match would be more about that uncertainty of exploration, increasing the tension, every time one plays because there is no guarantee on the strategic value of a "corner".

I also hope that with the introduction of Dynamic Infestation and a Hive Mind, that game play would have more of a territory feel, where you have Defended/Frontline Contested/Behind Enemy Lines sections that are intuitive to even new players, where they know this is where their character is more comfortable or uncomfortable. I think light and shadow will also have a big part in this.

I hope that makes sense and I want you to know I do agree with you, I want to very much avoid games in the NS1 where players are given grief for SC or Hive location or whatever. I do not like grief, I do like options.

Whew. Thank goodness that didn't turn into a stupid flame war. Glad to see intelligent discussion.

I would like to see more options. I like how often times the unoptimal strategy works, since the opponents are not expecting it. I like that somestimes you have to take a different route for the sake or surprise, or cutting losses. My personal favorite is the huge number of Phase Gate positions people use, each slightly different and for different considerations. Sure there's the safe optimal one that most people have found, but sometimes variations help cope with a special circumstance.

So far, liking the ideas. When I actually have free time, maybe I'll start fiddling with maps myself again.

Thank you spellman23. I'm curious, can you can elaborate on the "more options" and "unoptimal strategy" meanings?

Oh and by the way, the first post has been edited. (mostly for grammar mistakes or sloppiness that sounded dumb) Actually, you should expect other parts to get edited too as this is a work in progress after all.




~edit~

I'm having trouble with the overall layout placement of the rooms. (this is always the hardest part for a perfectionist like me)

Since I've been having trouble with the layout. I've decided to get some more information in what I want in the rooms so I know how they'll connect (instead of amorphous rectangles in a sketch). So, I took a hint from the USS Pampanito blog entry from April and have gathered some images that relate to what's going into the map -- a bit of inspiration if you will.

First off, this is a mining colony so I need to know what the ore's going to look like. Here's a picture of bauxite, more specifically I'm looking at the non-weathered darker rock in the middle, which is what the surface snow will be on top of, as well as throughout most of the map which doesn't have man-made walls, floors, and ceilings.


bauxite (Aluminum) ore, the middle core of the rock here specifically

Of course the site is mixed with spodumene crystals that are high in lithium and magnesium metals as well (essential for inexpensive (energy wise) fuel for the nuclear reactor). These will line certain areas of the rock faces, which is a way of saying: where I feel they are needed artistically.


kunzite crystal, a high magnesium content variety of spodumene ore

And then of course deep shafts containing silver...

...which appears either as an ore like argentite (above) or as a pure element (below).


This facility uses a plasma drill that never need replacement drill bits like I've zoomed in, inverted, put some red on, & cropped from a quick sketch I drew shown here:


And that silver will be refined into ingots like this:

which will likely be placed on platforms/carts of some kind (not sure)

The plasma drill is effective at producing chunks of rock of a programmed size and rock dust which is brought up through a system of conveyors, mechanical lifts, and grav lifts (for silver shafts, and will likely be "turned off" in-game).

(example of the heavy lift shaft that mining equipment and an onos could ride on)

It is brought to a crusher and sorter system at the head of the refinery (just a lot of moving machines and catwalks in multiple directions as far as the player is concerned.

Most of the ore will find it's way to the crucible where it is melted. Perhaps the crucible can be a moving object like the one pictured below carrying liquid ore from the burner to where it can pour the metal into the electrolysis vats.

(yes, yes, I know only iron glows orange when hot, I'm just illustrating an example here)

The bauxite is converted to alumina by the Bayer process and then sent to electolysis chambers like the one here

(although I think I'm going to make it more compact overall)

Then the metal aluminum (and silver) is cast and machined. Here is some steel is being turned into sheet metal, similar to how aluminum would be made into sheet metal only that, again, it doesn't glow like that.

...and here's actual aluminum sheet making at a Canadian factory:

...and the final product all rolled up:


(note the robotic arm which moves the heavy rolls, modified it could be made to lift rolls into an awaiting cargo ship from below)

Note how the machinery is set up in the overhead assembly line (no idea about the weird guy)


Of course all of this requires power from the reactor which has to come from the six turbines...

...and generators (make these vertical as well; I think these old generators look cool)

And of course the power transformed into the correct voltage and wattage.

Some of the more complex areas with catwalks might look somewhat related to this AutoCAD drawing:



I'll have to adapt the design


I've had a lot more going on behind the scenes here and just general business in my daily life so this is your update on this for now. I'd be interested to hear what you all think about all of this.



x5

I happen to be referring to allowing the players to decide how to play. Instead of a map dictating setup here or rush this resource node first, I enjoy it where you can adapt and many people find different things that work, but are fairly mutually exclusive.

Inevitably there will be slightly better positions to hold and chokepoints between rooms, but I hope people try to mitigate them as much as possible.

One unoptimal strategy that I've had work was building a small relocation position. Sure it in theory is a waste of res, but I personally figured if we're going down eventually, might as well give them a fight. It went operational about 1 minute before 2 Oni and a Fade rammed our lines and commenced to push all the way into Marine Start. I recycled, and they were happy to keep munching, until they realized we were 1) respawning, and 2) setting up siege at their Hive. Call it luck or foresight, but sometimes the weird and crazy work.

Another example was I placed a PG in a corner in Eclipse. It was up, but I didn't have in MS. The skulks got the Marines, but didn't see the PG. If I had put it in the correct position for god firing lines and prevent skulks from bite bouncing them into the corner, they would have. So, my mistake allowed us to shotgun rush it once the Ms Pg went up.

I'm not saying your idea doesn't have alot of great ideas, variety, and such, just would like to make sure you let the players play the map, not have the map control the players.

I've seen that you had written a lot about layout, but in my opinion, its useless and unneccesary until we get correct information about the gameplay. I mean they ve said that there is going to be 1 hive, but there were sketches with 3 hiverooms, and it doesnt matter if there is 1 or 3 hives. Or if there will be new weapons or races, rooms could be different too, and we dont know, how fast they wish to make one round. We just worked in waste if we make a big map(like altair) and they find out, sry we need rapid rounds. Its okay to have ideas, about rooms, hallways, vents, elevators, doors, but dont assembly them.

I would hope that we would be able to have large maps for the players to explore and battle across in NS2, but you have a point about the gameplay not being laid out well enough yet. Indeed perhaps it is too amorphous at this point...

Right now what I have is a number of "modules" of rooms and hallways, all done in that orange developer texture stuff. I'm compiling it to play around with using Portal (which makes it easy and a bit more fun to get around the place without the need for noclip). The huge sloped lift is looking good, but I'm feeling that the marines start leads more to be desired... It's too basic-seeming for some reason... To get the dimensions correct for a marine dropship I used the combine dropship creature (at first the actual entity, but then realizing the thing spins around in-game switched to a generic model)

The biggest problem for me right now is figuring what to do with the tunnels, surface, and connecting rooms to get it proportioned correctly (which as you point out, nobody knows what "correctly" is right now). Many of these things require references to the larger models I just don't have:

• arches on the habitat module's exterior
• the reactor core
• the generators & turbines
• the cooling tower
• the reactor dome ceiling

It's like trying to build a puzzle when the edges are uncertain, the pieces have no texturing, and some of pieces are missing.

Add that frustration with the limited time I've had lately and it's no wonder I have limited progress on this project...