Alt fire modes for Sentry Turret? Options

[Xero]

After reading the Twitter post about new sentry turrets, I just started wondering about their role in NS2. The dev team seems to be happy with a beefier, more badass version. Does this mean the guns themselves will be more badass? NS1 turrets personally don't scare me the same way the ones in the Aliens movie do, for example. Those guns ate through xenomorphs like a fat kid in a pie eating contest.

So I'm wondering, would it be possible to have alternate modes for the turrets which the commander or soldiers could switch?

For example:

BURST MODE

Similiar to NS1, the gun fires a quick burst. Accuracy is really high, meaning it should be able to hit skulks and lerks quite easily. However, the damage to larger, slower targets wouldn't be as detrimental of course.

RAPID MODE

The gun would open up full rapid fire, like a minigun. Accuracy is low, so skulks and lerks should be able to dodge. Slower targets would of course take multiple hits, which would deal high damage if sustained too long.


These are of course just suggestions. However, I really like the idea of ALT modes for marine weapons and structures. This really opens up new strategies and adds depth while keeping the overall number of weapons and structures reasonable.

Thoughts?

[GaussWaffle]

Just let the bullets ramp up in upgrades with the marines...I really wish that had been the case in NS

Also, maybe an upgrade (thinking purely in NS terms) which doubles the damage output of a turret (whether by rate of fire or amount of fire or bullet type), but making all subsequent turrets cost 15 res instead of 10.

Just something to make turrets relevant late-game w/o having a 2 hour game on eclipse with Clay turreting up every res room one by one

[schkorpio]

i'm hoping turrets will be really powerful, like in aliens- however only have a 120 deg or so angle of attack - so this means that marines will need to deploy them with a bit of thought, and if its ineffective then marines will have to pick them up, put them down, and a 2 - 5 second calibration time the turret starts up again.

this also means that the turrets are vulnerable from the back, even though they are powerful from the direction they are facing.

bad placement will mean useless turrets, clever placement will mean excellent benefits, but of course there will always be a way to get around the back of them (as there is always more than one path in the maps)

this also means that turrets need to be guarded to some extent - or that multiple turrets will need to be placed next to each other so they can protect each other


also i'm still assuming that onos will be invincible vs turrets when crouched, so he will be able to knock them over, and marines will need to set them up again, if they still function

This post has been edited by schkorpio: Aug 5 2009, 12:27 PM

[Schimmel]

if you played in the early release of NS, you would have seen how easy it is to overpower static defense (turrets). The turrets didnt need a nearby turret factory (neither for placing them nor for working) only one at marine base and fire accuracy was extremely high. Marines could build up unpassable barriers.

it was lame :)

[Brute]

So I'm wondering, would it be possible to have alternate modes for the turrets which the commander or soldiers could switch?

As this is of strategic concern, this should really be the commanders task.

Just let the bullets ramp up in upgrades with the marines...I really wish that had been the case in NS

Or there could be an individual upgrade for every turret/turret factory. Anyone remembers Warcraft2? You could upgrade your scout tower, to a guard tower (arrows) or a cannon tower (although scout towers might not be of much use in NS2)

There might have been a similar system in Warcraft3 (as this is where tower defence comes from), but i never really played it.

[Delphic]

Talking of lame, I miss the wall of lame...

Anyway, I think schkorpio's idea about high powered direction fire is a great one... however a couple of reservations, first are we actually going to be able to choose the rotation of structures in NS2... without that it's kinda impossible! Secondly, I don't think they should be 'knocked over' HL2 style (i.e. able to actually move the turret) and set up again by marines, that could just result in marines running into alien territory holding a turret in front of them and place it a corner and sit by it laughing manically as skulks try to get to him... wait that sounds awesome... make it be able to fire whilst the marines holding it too.

[Sumo-Soldier]

maybe have the option to research an upgradde that lets u build a sentry with a flamethrower? high damage in close range and good for protecting the turrent factory.

PS: sentrys shudnt be able to be knocked over...as they are bolted to the ground.

This post has been edited by Sumo-Soldier: Aug 5 2009, 04:23 PM

[Sumo-Soldier]

Talking of lame, I miss the wall of lame...

Anyway, I think schkorpio's idea about high powered direction fire is a great one... however a couple of reservations, first are we actually going to be able to choose the rotation of structures in NS2... without that it's kinda impossible! Secondly, I don't think they should be 'knocked over' HL2 style (i.e. able to actually move the turret) and set up again by marines, that could just result in marines running into alien territory holding a turret in front of them and place it a corner and sit by it laughing manically as skulks try to get to him... wait that sounds awesome... make it be able to fire whilst the marines holding it too.

that wont work...the sentry needs to be within the radius of the turrent factory..duhhh!

[Delphic]

that wont work...the sentry needs to be within the radius of the turrent factory..duhhh!

could we pick that up and carry that too?

[EmpV]

Some additional turret options for the commander or secondary commander could be interesting.


A couple of ideas:

- Commander can select and give turrets firing orders. I like the idea of additional firing modes(burst, full auto, etc). Additionally, It would be nice if the comm could select and order the turrets to attack a specific target if there are multiple targets/aliens.

- Controllable turrets. The comm/secondary comm could select a turret and take a first person remote control of it and actually aim and fire it at aliens. (think remote turrets from Tribes)

[davidcavalcante]

- Controllable turrets. The comm/secondary comm could select a turret and take a first person remote control of it and actually aim and fire it at aliens. (think remote turrets from Tribes)

The mod Eternal-Silence for HL2 has that exact same function.
You can deploy a Turret, hide yourself somewhere and control the turret remotely. It's very funny. =)

Oh! And you can knock the turret too. While knocked down, it won't work. You can also pick it up and put in another place.

Well, I think that NS2 could have the same feature as it works very well and gives a lot of tactic to the game.

[ka713]

I like the idea of a rapid fire upgrade, where turrets will shoot faster - like an overdrive where it is more damaging but also taking more damage and easier to kill

[Squeal_Like_A_Pi...]

The current plan for the turrets is:

--beefier, more powerful then NS

--cone of fire, so it matters where and how they are placed. They can be rotated by the commander when placing

--probably won't be able to be knocked down, as that causes all sorts of headaches

--possibly can run out of ammo so the commander needs to keep an eye on ammo count and reload them

--no turret factories, currently

--will be linked to the power grid

--I haven't talked to Charlie about upgrades for the turrets, so I don't know if any are planned or not

--no talk at the moment about alt fire, though it's an interesting idea

Please keep in mind that the above is all subsequent to change if deemed broken, annoying, useless, etc. based on adequate playtesting and what Charlie feels is going to work the best. So, please refrain from too many "OMG, they are ruining NS, it's gonna suck!" comments.

Thanks.

--Cory

[locallyunscene]

OMG!! They're improving NS, that sounds awesome!

Hows that? ;-)

[Jimyd]

Figured I would add this. There is no Turret Factory because we now have the MASC instead of stationary Siege Cannons. This is my expert deduction.

Also, I think a flamethrower upgrade would be good; like the LVL 3 Turret in TF2(Team Fortress 2).

Current: http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/0/3616/...l_3_b_super.jpg

OLD Concept: http://media.photobucket.com/image/TF2%20l...s-2_turrets.jpg

In TF2 it shoots rockets, but that would not make sense in this game; but a flamethrower would.

This post has been edited by Jimyd: Aug 5 2009, 07:45 PM

[NeoSniper]

The current plan for the turrets is:
--cone of fire, so it matters where and how they are placed. They can be rotated by the commander when placing

I've wanted this for so long! :*) If you decide to allow turret realignment you must include a long cooldown (like 10 or 30 seconds). Maybe aliens can fake an strong attack from one side and scare a com into realigning ALL the turrets in the room to face one door and then get like 10-30 second to rush in from another door)

--possibly can run out of ammo so the commander needs to keep an eye on ammo count and reload them

I like this a lot. Gives more strategy and goes well with the following idea

--no talk at the moment about alt fire, though it's an interesting idea

I like the OP's idea for a accurate burst fire mode and a less accurate full auto mode. Would like to add.

-Burst fire: Accurate short burst with short cooldown
-full auto: Inaccurate really long bursts with a slighty longer cooldown (because it can overheat or needs to reload the clip) This chews through ammo faster and lets larger aliens taunt the turrets to empty the clips/overheat the gun so that smaller aliens can rush in during reload/cooldown to get to the blind spots)

The com can choose between these mode which will trigger an appropriately long animation where the turret cannot fire and slightly changes appearance. To make things simple have a green light on the turret when in burst mode change to red during changes/reloads and the go blue one in full auto mode.

Really good info Cory. Add some art and you got a blog worthy post here.

[EDIT: some grammar and "This chews through ammo faster"]

This post has been edited by NeoSniper: Aug 5 2009, 08:13 PM

[Bacillus]

My first thoughts, let's get some interesting discussion going:
(Not intented as any kind of direct critisism, these just crossed my mind while reading. It's always nice to have some discussion at least)

The current plan for the turrets is:

--beefier, more powerful then NS

Some use of them wouldn't hurt as long as they aren't THE defence.

--cone of fire, so it matters where and how they are placed. They can be rotated by the commander when placing

I'm a little worried on how the flanking is going to work with the new map & power grid rules, but once again it's fine as long as they aren't the main defence method.

--probably won't be able to be knocked down, as that causes all sorts of headaches

Fine, although it kinda encourages using them in combination with marines. There are probably smarter ways for the encouragement if necessary.

--possibly can run out of ammo so the commander needs to keep an eye on ammo count and reload them

Isn't this the kind of 'must do' macro routine that was supposed to be reduced in NS2? On the other it doesn't relate to marines, so it's not going to ruin field marine's day if comm ignores it, but then again I can't see the resupplying as that dynamic feature by itself either.

--no turret factories, currently

--will be linked to the power grid

Sounds fine, it's difficult to judge even for a bit until we know more about the weapons and abilities that might get involved in turret fights.

--I haven't talked to Charlie about upgrades for the turrets, so I don't know if any are planned or not

Smart use of a few specialized turrets might be interesting. Commander has to make decisions whether he wants that extra bit of safety or slightly faster tech process for example. Many RTSes have these small decisions that nicely variate the timings and such a bit.

--no talk at the moment about alt fire, though it's an interesting idea

If there are going to be alt fires, I'd like to see some comm micro intense abilites. The basic turret is already useful, but a good micro commander could squeese an extra bit of use from his turret. This would also encourage to use a strategic turret here and there instead of just blindly massing them for easy defence.

[GaussWaffle]

Sounds like a plan....just for the sake of asking... does this cone of fire have a vertical limit? (can the turret only look so far up an down)

[NeoSniper]

rethinking another idea came up.

Depending on balance the Full Auto mode Turret could be an upgrade to be used individually on each turret at cost and with no reversal possibilities.

I think it makes sense to make turrets more powerful if using them (ammo) has an expense involved. Large aliens would have yet another way to balance out their own cost by absorbing turret fire.

I think both added Macro and Micro on turrets will work well with the idea of multiple commanders. Especially the micro.

Combining all lot of ideas together (commander turret micro, extra turrets fire mode, cost for using turrets). What could work would be a Turret Full Auto mode which would have to be activated (like a spell). Making the turret go real full auto without any cooldown for a good few seconds, with a short inactive cooldown, followed, by a very long cooldown of the "spell" where the turret just keeps on working as before). Think of the Overdrive spell on the Phoenix in Starcraft 2 (hopefully I got the names right). Depending on balance using this "spell" should cost some res so as to add some decision making on the part of the commander.

[Raza.]

Nice, that's basically how I wanted the new turrets to work.
Hopefully these changes will give it a more tactical role.

Have you thought about limiting the number of available turrets?
With 2-4 strong turrets per map you could protect maybe 1 or 2 hallways against lower lifeforms, for a limited time until they run out of ammo or power.
Laming up whole hive rooms wouldn't be possible though.

This post has been edited by Razagal: Aug 5 2009, 08:36 PM