We all know good comms get armor1 first. But why does it stop there? Why armor1 > weapons3 > then armor ups. for the love of flayra WHY? I always get armor2 first, sometimes ever armor3.. here is why:

Lets first asume pub play:
* aim is crap
* teamplay is like not there

So we upgrade armor1, then start weapons. We shoot the fade, mis half of the bullets, lack armor, die.
Now we upgrade armor2. We shoot the fade, mis half the bullets, do less dmg, live through the attack, and pump more bullets out, making the total dmg higher then example 1.

Now let us asume the better pub. They can aim. Making you shoot each bullet means in both examples more dmg, but in example 2 you shoot more bullets, doing in the long term, more dmg.

Now let us asume a very good pub, or even competitive play. Good aim AND teamhax.

Kharaa attack in groups, so there is a chance you get hit by 2 aliens, making you die even faster. So armor might help you live, pump out more bullets, compared to example1. if they have a lerk, again, armor is very needed to stay alive long enought to pump out reasonable dmg.

If teammates weld and the comm medspam, you live even longer, to yet again pump out more dmg.

My point is: with armor2 you greatly expend the life expendenty of your marines. And if you rag, for example, 50 bullets down one second, and you die in half a second, or you live for 1.50 seconds, in the end, you did more dmg by living.

get armor, try it, and lets see how it works. I played this since 2.x and it has not let me down yet.

a1 = 3 swipes
a2 = 3 swipes

there goes your theory. also, w0 shotguns dont cut it against fades. even with w1 youre having problems.

Shotguns don't really cut it against fades against it's like 4v1 in a tight corridor.

More armor doesn't really matter, cause it still takes the same amount of bites.
A0 = 3 bites (kind of 2 with parasite)
A1 = 3
A2 = 3
A3 = 4

Swipes is A0 = 2, A1-3 = 3
A medpack might make you take 4 swipes, but then you're not really hurting the fade either.

In addition to that as time goes on your are less likely to kill and alien, in a sitaution where the alien has gotten more than 3 bites on you you have porbably a) gotten ambushed or b) used your available ammunition. At least in my experience

as a light armor marine your most important defense is movement not armor.

If you want to stop fades to totally destroy you, you want as much firepower as you can afford. armor doenst stop fades, imho its superior firepower that can hold them back.

yes, I mean with medpacks.

Also the meaning of this is having HMG ready against fades. My HMGs are long done before I see a fade on the entire map.

Also, ziggy.. if you don't understand jokes when you read them, you are the retarted one.

Also I trust on getting HA ready, lvl2 HA will keep you alive.

I dont think ironic statements humorous, I pity them. I pity you too.

Armour 2 is 4 bites.

Care to clarify that, Charisma? Armor 2 is 4 bites for skulks and lerks, still three for a fade, but they do just enough damage for it. A medpack at any time when tangoing with a fade will enable you to last another hit.

In pubs, I might rush armor 3 (if you can get it off at 5 minutes into the game, pub fades won't expect it), but in competitive play, you just can't hack it without weapons upgrades.

It's not about how much damage you deal - how long you take, it's about how fast you can do it. Hopefully, fast enough so that the fade/lerk skulk won't be able to escape from you.

Also the reason that W1 is so important is because, to my knowledge, W1 is the difference between the center spread of a shotgun insta-killing a skulk and not. That's in particular why I refuse to drop shotguns until I at least have weapons 1.

-Brackhar

That's another reason, Brackhar.

the real thing about weapon levels and their importance is that when fighting fades, the most important thing is to at least deal enough damage to it so that it wont come back straight away. if you have w0 and a2 it'll just blink in, swipe once or twice, fly back, and return before you get to finish reloading.

Good fades don't die to L0 weapons. Period.

Armor 2 helps against skulks, but by the time your second upgrade is finished you're pretty close to having to worry about fades. Without weapons one, or with late weapons two your team has more or less no chance to acctually drop the early fade, and thus you will in the end very likely lose the game.

Against W3 HMGs even a good fade will have difficulty landing a single swipe on most flybys.

All this upgrade stuff sounds complicated - I don't bother with it. Besides, how do you find res for upgrades??? Each electrify is 30 RES! And turrets are 10 each. Not to mention PGs and SHIRTGUNZ LOL!!!!1

Ppl.. lets stay on topic.

Also pls remind yourself, by time fade arive you are ment to have armor2, HMG, shotty, GL ready and weapons1 in the oven, or just done.

Since rines should travel in groups, it means that fade will have trouble. (we are using a thing called range don't we)

Also lets look at the general picture, not the uber1337masterpwning fade of the best NSclans who have a deathscore of 2 all game.

But you made a point I really want to repeat here:
Armor 2 helps against skulks, but by the time your second upgrade is finished you're pretty close to having to worry about fades

skulks.. YES. point is to have armor2 with weapons before that fade like I said. Also, what gets fades?
res. What gets res? mapcontrol + frags. If your rines live longer they get more mapcontrol, and frags. Kharaa get less. Fades are later, if at all.

Only thing I can say TRY IT. Once or twice. I always comm like this (FX server and Brys lately) and I win most of my matches.

armor2 for skulks + lerks. By time they get fade, we have HMGs and weapons1 coming up. ANY HIVE ONE FADE CAN DIE TO HMGs (plural ppl, hmgS) Aim in a group. If you keep pushing in the skulk period, they have to pick.. fade or hive.

I do agree though. Some fades tend to be not killed, but its not a need. If they blink in, slash, blink out. you medspam, they weld, they move, fade comes again. In the end, you won ground.

I got a better idea, why dont you try it against a decent clan. anything can work on pubs, IVe done pretty much EVERYTHING in pubs

marines rely on dealing damage at long range

not being able to take damage up close while hacking away with knives

I am not in a clan, I think I actually asked someone who is to try this? I asked ppl to try it, didn't I?

And again, think of it. How are you gona sue the nifty weapons1, if you are dead after 5 bullets.

ever heard of lerk's spore?

When fighting aliens, you do EVERYTHING in your power to get as far away from them as possible - the ideal situation is more or less pistol sniping.

Aliens, on the other hand, are trying thier best to minimize that advantage. Ambushes being the best way, if not, then rush all at once so some meatshield while the other get close enough to bite.

If the aliens are close enough to bite, the rine has lost most of his advantage already. Only medspam will usually save him then.

It's why the chamber of choice for upgrades is movements. Movements let you either sneak up on them (silence) or cover the distance faster (celerity)



Marines push with phasegates, not thier armour + welders + medspam. There is no point in getting an upgrade that will let your marines trek further when they can just phase. Armour 2 won't help in a fight for a seige point.

If you think it does, think about how much difference that extra 5 armour makes at lvl 0 when a lerk is sporing.

What DOES help in a fight is the extra damage. Fades will get scared off more easily when they're actually HURT. The downtime of them healing and thier need for extra caution is much better than any extra armour you might have.

why do ppl have the impression that armor2 means we have no weapons when fade apears?
Before 5 min, you should have HMG + weapons1 with this technique, aswell as armor2.

Try the next best thing, Darkling, go to #nspickup and try your strategy.

Wow, I can't believe I was this retarded when I posted a few articles on commanding.

I usually go A1 > wp3

If lerks are annoying A1 > wp2 > a2 > (wp3 or a3 depending if they have focus or not)

Fades typically appear around the 4:30 mark right?

How the hell are you going to get a2/w1/Adv. armory and enough res to drop multiple HMGs within that time?

Are you going to SKIP the obs and phase tech or something?

Two Arms Labs and a hell of a lot of res.

which you don't have. Yo only start with 100 res.

ignoring all the "well i have this and this and this as well"

this is basically a comparison between weapons 2 and armour 2.

It has been shown that armour 2 doesn't help marines much. It has been shown that extra damage from weapons 2 helps.

so show us how armour 2 could help more than weapons 2 instead of running away and saying "I have hmgs!".

I find that armor 2 is quite often very useful.

But there is one BIG problem with armor 2 and 3 that usually makes Weaps 2 and 3 a better choice.

Say a weaps upgraded marine goes out and gets attacked by a skulk. He manages to kill the skulk after being hit once, and the com meds him. He's lost most of his armor, but hes still got his weaps upgrades for the next encounter.

Now say an armor upgraded marine goes out and gets attacked by a skulk. With less damage, the skulk bites him twice--but the extra armor keeps him alive and he kills the skulk. Com meds him. Same result? Not hardly. Now he's lost most of his armor, AND has no weapons upgrades, and so hes basically a 0/0 LA marine for his next encounter.

Thats the crucial problem with armor upgrades--weapons upgrades continue to affect you as long as you are alive, but armor upgrades disappear after you start getting hit. That doesn't make them useless (this disadvantage can be countered by smart use of welders), but its enough to tip the balance in favor of weapons upgrades most of the time.

i prefer lvl 2 armor before lvl 3 weapons, i always want to kill comms who have 3/1, lvl 3 weapons doesn't help nearly as much as lvl 2 armor. If aliens go sens first i prefer a2 before w2, my normal arms lab upgrade path is a1 > w1 > w2 > a2 > w3 > a3. w2 and a2 are pretty much interchangable according to situation.

And lerk spores actually supports lvl 2 armor first, it takes much more time in spores to be 2 swipes/bites and virtually no time at all with a1.

Darkling, as others have said, most glaring weakness in your A2-first strat is an early Fade(which, as I'm sure you know, is an extremely common occurrence). Going straight for A2, you would be lucky to have W1 by the time that fade shows up, and forget about having an Adv. Armory and HMGs, unless you blow all of your team's res on that. L0 weapons are child's play against a Fade, and L1 isn't much better. Killing a Fade is all about hitting it hard and fast, which means weapon upgrades; your scenario revolves around the Fade being retarded enough to keep attacking your marines and being hit by their peashooters until he's virtually dead, which no experienced player ever does(intentionally). It's crucial that you have your weapons upgraded as high as possible as soon as possible, after Armor 1; with Weapons 0, even HMGs are a waste of res that will just be killed away from the base and camped by the Fade.

In a nutshell, a decent Fade will annihilate your marines if you don't give them weapon upgrades. Armor 2 is a nominal improvement, but Weapons 1/2 is absolutely crucial.

I always did a W1, A1, W2, A2 etc approach to my weapons and armor upgrades. I always felt that your STOCK LA marine should be as good as he can be WITHOUT you burning more res on him. I've been known to rush W3 and ignore anything higher then A1 for a bit just so I can pump the dmg.

weap 1 > than Armor 1 for this reason alone


You can drop health or go to the armory to increase your health to 100 if you survice the alien attack but to repair your armor you have to drop a welder and then the players have to get there stuff together enough to use it on each other! This really happens in Pubs. W1, 2 & 3 is a return every time a marine pulls the triger while A1 2 & 3 are gone until the marines get a welder. I will always get W1 before A1

Marines don't need more than armor 1 unless you're going HA and even then I wouldn't bother with more than armor 2, whereas weapons level 3 ASAP is absolutely crucial against good fades. It often means the difference between the fade dying or escaping with like 42 HP. It's also a strong psychological factor against them. W3 really really hurts, they'll be a more reserved in their aggressiveness, giving your marines more breathing room.

If you want your marines to last longer, drop a couple of welders and tell them to weld each other. Try it sometimes.

Mmm Why dont you just fit the second all there to get the a2 while you still get w2 coming that al will only cost around 10res plus the upgrade. Sure you can push 2 al somewhere even if you are with bit low res, naturally im speaking about pubs. In matches those res should go to to the guns and welders which are heaviyl needed there to get troops alive and rt`s down.

really.. I don't wanna bug but I actually ALWAYS manage to get rts, AA, armor2 and weapons1 BEFORE 5 min. Its doable

armour 1 is useful in the sense that at the early start of games, you won't fall prey easily to para than bite twice scenario, that extra one more bite could make the difference between life and death.

similarly, with aliens innate regeneration, you have to fire 1 more bullet provided the skulk is not hit and run +regenration. That 1 more bullet is also critical, getting weapons 1 will eliminate that extra bullet which can save your life.

I believe that many players have encountered these very close shaves before
so both upgrades seems feasible and there is no reason why you should diss weapons 1 in favour of armour 1 always unless you encounteer a happy parasiting alien team

Pls remind that the point of this tactis is to PUSH.

> AA
> send out rines for RTs
> armor1 (keep pushing versus those skulks, medspam, keep pushing for rts)
> lerk apear, armor2 is on the way, kiss gas goodbye, keep pushing for maintaining rts
> fade apear, weapons1 near done, AA done. By this time they lost res for lerk, pushed there res in fade and ups and by lack of rts have no hive.

Point is to push to limit there chance for fade aswell.

technically, lvl 2 armour is good against non -adre lerks

if your experience is that only weapons one helps, then I suggest to play on more servers. for dmg over time armor is superior to weapons always

I think he's right Koba. You need more experience comming and more knowledge. I think you should admit this guys 1337n355, take your licks like a man and not say anything else. I mean, he did answer your question exactly by not saying anything of value and saying you need to play more if that is your opinion. Tbh, the reply should be stickied as one of the best and straightest to the point replies in posting history.

My jedi powers sense high level of e-sarcams an irony

Armor 1 will always help more than weapons 1. This, however, is not true for armor 2 vs weapons 2. Weapons 2 is one of THE most important upgrades a marine team can get. It lowers the amount of pistol bullets it takes to kill a skulk from 5 to 4, HMG bullets to kill a skulk from 5 to 4, the amount of SG shots to kill a fade from 4 to 3, enables you to one shot kill a lerk with an SG if it's taken just about ANY form of damage, and greatly reduces the average lifespan of any alien. HMG's will decimate anything that would normally be escaping with what could be a few hundred extra HP's.

However, all this killing power is absolutly worthless if the marine cannot sustain himself in combat for a decent amount of time. Armor one ensures that the said marine will be able to take hits and keep on shooting. Armor one with med support is absolutly devistating- with one medpack, you increase the marine's lifespan from 3 to 4 hits vs a skulk.

Now take into consideration, armor 2. Armor 2 doesn't make the marine's clip size any larger. It doesn't make the marine deal more damage as the marine reloads. Armor 2 before weapons two does NOT give the said marine the killing power nessessary to deal with a good lifeform. It will ensure a lazy comm can relax a bit more vs aliens already getting stomped by marines with very little/no weapon upgrades. Fighting those aliens that understand when a marine simply LACKS the ability to kill them with the remainder of their clip, or the ability to kill them before they are able to kill the marine will result in what will appear to the marines and comm, a wasted upgrade.

Don't get me wrong, armor 2 is a valuable upgrade. I usually prefer it to weapons 3 because of its lower cost and faster research time, and how it essentially makes smart marines still at least have armor around the armor 1 level should they encounter spores. This is a nice benefit, but does not outweigh the advantages weapons 2 provides.