Note: All numbers are semi arbitrary and can be subject to change.

Here's the plan:

Experience is gone. Kaput. All kills will yield six resources, to be divided amongst the people who are nearby the killer. The killer automatically gets two, and the remaining four will be divvied up between everybody.

Here are the values for weapons and items:

Armor/Weapons 1: 10 resources
Armor/Weapons 2: 15 resources
Armor/Weapons 3: 20 resources
Motion Tracking: 15 resources

All research upgrades are PERMANENT. You get them back when you spawn, if you die.

Shotgun: 5 resources
HMG: 8 resources
Welder: 2 resources
GL: 10 resources
Heavy Armor: 10 resources
Jetpack: 10 resources
Hand Grenade: 1 resource
Mine: 2 resources
Scan: 2 resources

All weapons and equipment are TEMPORARY, and will not spawn with you. You can repurchase, though.

For the aliens...

5 resources: One hive chamber skill.
10 resources: Two hive chamber skill.
15 resources: Third hive chamber skill.

You can choose ONE upgrade from ONE chamber type. And if you want two upgrades from two different chamber types, you pay more. HOWEVER, if you want to change your skill (of the same chamber), you can research it for free, but your previous skill is erased.

10 resources: Second hive ability.
25 resources: Third hive ability.

Hive abilities are permanent as well.

Gorge: 5 resources
Lerk: 10 resources
Fade: 20 resources
Onos: 30 resources

If you die, it doesn't come back. You have to gain back more resources to regestate.

Gorges get the ability to drop O chambers!
Each O chamber costs 5 resources.

Why did I make this revision?

Combat players need to be taught that equipment and units are PRECIOUS. You can't suicide as an onos all the time and expect to onos again when you die.

This also prevents lame jetpack rushes, über fades, and everything else. Everything is tied to the amount of res you have. Spend it wisely.

This is an attempt to bring Combat closer to the true value of NS.

Best idea ever for CO. Of course, as you said the numbers may need a bit of tweaking.

Oh, the only thing I don't like is the offense chamber part. CO would probably be better suited if it had no chambers.

I like this idea, might make me want to play CO more =]

lol I'll say no , personally I like combat


yeah yeah before we get the storms of combat noobzor you sux!!!!!!1111!!!!

I also like classic quite a bit, but see I used to play 1.4 now that classic has become quick 15 min games that are decided within five min and a single skilled fade can entirely warp a game lately I've been enjoying combat a bit more, since classic seems to have devolved to the point where strat doesn't really matter , ya just stick with the cookie cutter and pray for skilled players to pull it off

at least with combat I can practice with higher lifeforms and improve my aim and skill using the various abilities

but I digress, not my intent to turn your thread to another combat vs classic argument

I guess what it comes down to is that if "classic" really was in fact classic, I'd play it alot more

i like the idea a lot actually, especially since marines lose their weapons and have to earn them back, as do aliens. this basically, brings combat to be nearly like classic except that it still retain that idea of a training ground. yea and uber onos and jetpacks are pretty lame

but problems with the idea...
a) requires overhaul of the entire combat system, which requires a lot of work
b) dragged combat games since basially everyone starts almost from scratch after dying, so even 10 minutes into the game, both teams may still not have advanced far enough to finally end the game
c) potentially unbalancing. say if an alien goes fade and manages to wipe out the most of the marines, that leaves the marines with only LMGs, making them all the more easier to kill. so over time the gap between the marines and aliens just gets wider and wider. but this also means more teamwork on the part of the losing team (in this case marines), so it may be a good thing.

Well, the same can be said for marines.

What if a heavy train wipes out every lifeform?

I mean, game's over. ANd it should be!

But in combat, you'd still get enough res to get higher upgrades, lifeforms, and equipment, but you bring it more in tune to NS. Which I think is good.

I also had a idea to make combat more classic like, which is here

numbers, and ignored upgrades need thinking about.

but awsomeness!

far more skulk vs lmg, yet a quick tech advance is a powerful gamble.

people call CO a counterstrike clone, bull.. in counterstrike you can lose tech, ironicaly, this CO imrovement moves it towards counterstrike. people being careful in CO?

one issue i see is the xeno spam, (skulk xeno, respawn, repeat) maybe more upgrades (such as level 3 and 4 attacks for aliens) need to be cheap but last 1 life.

Awesome idea!

I like this idea! It would need some tweaking, of course, but I think it'd be worth it!

But perhaps it won't be appreciated by current CO fans...

Oh and I don't think it gets closer to a CS clone heh... as long as aliens don't have guns, bombs to plant or hostages to keep captive, we're still pretty far! I know CO is more of a frag fest, but I think it was meant to be that way, so you can learn about the game while not worrying too much!

That's the point. If current combat players want their nonstop action, they can still have it. We can up the RFK gained in kills. Or depending on what you've killed, you get more res.

I think in the long run, it'll be worth it. It teaches newbies more about the real elements of NS.

I <3 this idea. It might make me want to play CO, and CO players will be able to learn classic better than the old style of co...

I dont like this idea, simply because its to much more like NS. CO and NS, no matter what they were 'meant' to be, are very different and should be treated as such, not moved closer together.

Someone mentioned that CO was nothing like CS... well this suggestion is kinda moving it more toward it, dont you think? Having to buy things over and over again when you die is the CS format of getting weapons.

Combat does need major balancing (which is why it should be balanced seperate from NS), but this is a total rebuild of what combat is. This change would slow down combat, make it more tedious, more monotonous, not being able to retain a weapon and all, and would ultimately drive people away.

i like this idea ( #s need to be tweeked ) for the reasion that it does indead show that you wepons are not free and need to be erned . ( i hope you meant that when a marine dies he can rebuy the wep he wants but it costs more res )

You just contradicted yourself. How can I bring Combat and Classic further together if Combat drifts more towards CS? Look, Combat was intended to be a stepping stone to NS, and this helps. Besides, it will make teamwork more necessary to win (as any NS mode should require) and also make it scale well with larger servers. 16v16 Combat is just retarded, this should help it out a bit.

good idea.

I think that comnbat needs a major change. It was supposed to be an introduction to ns...and its definately not what it was supposed to be.

Its a new mod.. :/

Give combat a commander
He hands out Weapons/does scans and gains all the resources.

This would be ns without rts. Instead you gain res for kill only. But still the Commander takes care of these gained resources.

Would be

- a comm training (droping medpacks etc)
- closer to NS
- teach new players to follow the comms orders/work together

just an idea...but i like the initial one too!

Any chance I can see Zunni give a comment on this?

no...somehow he missed all the good topics during the last weeks ^^

/me votes yes

I wouldn't mind.
Does Scan work exactly like the current CO upgrade? Or is it only used(once) on the spot you bought it on?

Would weapons drop? As opposed to evaporate like they do currently, that is.

I still think my idea was better, but aslong as combat DOES get improved...

Maybee it's not combat who need improvement but NS who need...

Maybee a little movie to show a game , more precisely to show the (basic) mecanics of NS. Some ".avi" may be an easy to use thing.

It can be done easily thought i don't know what are the tools to do that. It seems Google can answer. This can 'enrich' the package with some easy to use material.

Showing a good (movie) game as some tutorial can be interesting considering the actual "approach" of NS... no tutorial exept the manual.

It can be added to the package as an option : downlad X-Mo or X-Mo + 10.

I'm willing to do this because i think combat is a different game than NS and cannot introduce to NS anymore.

2 things that would help combat out (to balance it that is nothing is going to save the lack of real strategy part)

only 1 upgrade per chamber (no more of these redempting regenerating carapace onos)

less levels (allot more experience needed to gain levels) and a measure to prevent number of level altering patches, my suggestion would be 7 levels. This would force people to think about what they are getting, and force people to make sacrafices and decesions on what equipment to use.

Well, the thing is that you're going to have a lot of these server side "patches" for extra levels anyways. So you might as well bypass that entirely and just make it a resource based system.

Can they change that? Well, the only thing they'd do is make it give more res, so I guess it'd keep up with their high-paced game.

But yeah, you should be limited to one upgrade per chamber type, but you should be able to change it. Natural Selection forces adaptation, after all.

Dude I hope I didn’t just here you say that in co you shouldn’t be able to have redemp+regen+cara

If that ever happened then the game would be 99.9999999999999999999999999999999999% marines wining simple for the fact that they spawn with all there stuff and aliens have to regestate, having all the upgrades from one chamber is really the only balance that this part has ,if this was removed it would have to be sent back to where you would respawn as onos to rebalance it

i would say, please match the numbers with classic.
like make fade 50,
weapon 1 20.

or else, noobs gonna ask OMGWTHBBQ WHY FADE COST 50 IN CLASSIC!!!!11111oneoneone it suxZ!!!!!!!!

so basicaly each lvl intune gives you 20 res ( none growing ) to spend

That would work, Lofung, but you'd have to give more RFK for every kill.

But yes, that would definitely work.

Also i think they need to change the way marines keep everything.

I hate being in a server and here some guy WTH where is my shotgun HACKS!

How about just cut JP/HA, Onos and hive 3 abilities, bump fade to 5 pts, lerks to 3. This would probably suck for those 10+ lvl servers but for those 10 lvl ones it'll be more balanced IMHO.

1 change-

make res given based on damage dealt

It's SO frustrating to have an onos redeem EVERY time and not be able to get any xp/res out of him! Or to gun a skulk down to 1 hp only to have some random newb get lucky with his spray and pray and get the killing shot!

bite a marineplayer with resuply that went afk - unlimited xp/res flow if damage dealt counts.
attack an alienplayer with regeneration and/or in the hiveroom - same thing.

It has a reason why it doesn't give anything based on Damage (except cc/hive)

I'd have to say it's pretty bad. You send a lot of packets to the server and back if you do it by a hit by hit basis. That creates lag, a more CPU intensive NS (which is already bad enough), and basically puts a strain on server owners. We wouldn't want that, now would we?

I forgot to move this earlier...

And we have some ideas about adding onto the introduction a new player gets to NS.. give us some time...

So many things to work on all at the same time... /me heads explodes..

*cough* MeatPopsicle's training map */cough*

I think this is a great idea overall. I think you should match the costs of the upgrades in ns, to the upgrades in co, for the most part. One difference I'd say should be tha every armor/weapon upgrade should cost 20 points each, no matter if it's weapons 1 or 3. Jetpacks, Heavies, hmg's, gl's, should all cost 15 res, and be linked to armor and weapons upgrades, as currenly. Shotguns should cost 10, mines 10, welders 5. Other differences, I say, should be with grenades, motion tracking, catpacks, and scanning. Motion should cost like 15, scan about 10. Grenades should be like 2-5 or something. Catpacks should be like 10, cause it's not that powerful in combat, being based upon kills. Oh and resupply should cost like 20, cause it's so good. There should be a limit to how much res's worth of equipment/upgrades you can have at the same time. Maybe the limit should be 100 per marine, and make some of my numbers less. Limit for the aliens should be somewhat similar. Res costs for aliens might differ more. Oh and with this system you'd get more like 8 res per kill. All suggestions up for tweaks.

Rapier... you have more sense than anyone else on these forums.

We really need something like this. Co and extra upgrades are killing ns. I know only 3 servers where half the team knows what they're doing on ns, and only 1 where you get good games.

SirSmokeALot you took my suggestion

Ns > co