Idea: Marine, ShockWave Building.
Since most people hate the fact that fades will do the telport, swipe, teleport. Why not add a building the commander can drop. Its abilties would be that it runs on energy just like the sat, and has to be manually activated by the commander. But when activated, it whirls up and slams the ground with a nanite shockwave that stuns all kaharra lifeforms (Except the onos.) if they are on the ground. It can be continous every 3-4 seconds.(As long as theres energy. This would also encourage skulks to get off the ground and use the walls/ceiling to attack, and force fades to be more careful when teleporting into a base or not. It will also encourage more Onos to assault the base since they are immune.
Its downside is that its tapped into the mainpower system. If it takes major damage, it will have an area shutdown effect which will powerdown all buildings in a small radius. So any research buildings will pause research untill the hammer is repaired, or recycled. So theres an upside/down side to placing in near buildings, or out in the open.
I was thinking on the topic of gorges too, but if they used their second hive ability with its range, they could make the thumper do a powergrid shutdown from a distance, allowing all the other aliens to storm in. So now, the gorge is basically firing an emp if he does it right. Which sounds over-powered... hmmm
Full Version: Shockwave Building
Unknown Worlds Forums > Natural Selection > Natural Selection Discussion > Ideas and Suggestions Forum > Ideas for future versions
mmm thumpers
you've been playing to much half-life2
you've been playing to much half-life2
So, an instant fade killer? Not my idea of fun.
Interesting idea (and since Halflife 2 was mentioned, I am glad I am getting my 2.66GHz in). Not sure about it though. It has some pros and cons, let me illustrate what is in my head first.
If this hammer is powerful enough to stun alien lifeforms, I have no idea why it wouldn't stun marines. I believe that aliens can avoid stomp because their cellular structure absorbs vibrations a whole lot more (hence why they do not get knocked back much) and can avoid the onos stomp. But we all know the human body (especially in this game) does not measure up to the aliens.
So if this was to be implemented, we would need a platform that the marines would stand on that has absorption technology so they can stand on it and not be affected. They could then shoot from an elevated position.
The machine could only work with line of sight. Should someone see an alien in range, it would hammer the piston that hits the floor. It would need to bring the piston back up, so the hydraulics would need about 3 seconds to bring it back up.
It would be a fairly heavy machine (hitbox would probably measure up to almost the size of a hive) and would cost a decent amount of res, but would make an excellent static defense point for marines.
On the downside, I don't see it being very viable in games. Marines have good counters for fades already, such as shotties, mines and well placed turrets with an electrified turret factory. If the commander has a good team, a welder can keep any static defense fortified. I see this as a researchable object that would be researched further up the tech tree, when it is possible for an onos to be in play.
I am in the middle of this one. It has potential, but there are already so many anti-alien static defenses in place that it may not be viable. I am going to wait for others to comment as well as Zunni, since he has been around long enough to know what the up and downsides are to such a thing.
If this hammer is powerful enough to stun alien lifeforms, I have no idea why it wouldn't stun marines. I believe that aliens can avoid stomp because their cellular structure absorbs vibrations a whole lot more (hence why they do not get knocked back much) and can avoid the onos stomp. But we all know the human body (especially in this game) does not measure up to the aliens.
So if this was to be implemented, we would need a platform that the marines would stand on that has absorption technology so they can stand on it and not be affected. They could then shoot from an elevated position.
The machine could only work with line of sight. Should someone see an alien in range, it would hammer the piston that hits the floor. It would need to bring the piston back up, so the hydraulics would need about 3 seconds to bring it back up.
It would be a fairly heavy machine (hitbox would probably measure up to almost the size of a hive) and would cost a decent amount of res, but would make an excellent static defense point for marines.
On the downside, I don't see it being very viable in games. Marines have good counters for fades already, such as shotties, mines and well placed turrets with an electrified turret factory. If the commander has a good team, a welder can keep any static defense fortified. I see this as a researchable object that would be researched further up the tech tree, when it is possible for an onos to be in play.
I am in the middle of this one. It has potential, but there are already so many anti-alien static defenses in place that it may not be viable. I am going to wait for others to comment as well as Zunni, since he has been around long enough to know what the up and downsides are to such a thing.
this would be the ultimate fade killer. imagine this scenario.
3 shotgunners waiting in base for the fade to come (lets say they know the fade like to whack the MS). fade comes in.
BAM
stunned. shotgunners just finish him off. so this idea is way too overpowered.
your other point is to encourage skulks to use the walls and ceilings. it is not feasible to always use the walls and ceilings as they are hard to navigate to forcing them to use walls and ceilings in the MS would be more of a disadvantage.
about the point on shutting down buildings if damaged. well, this would vary on hwo much health u propose for the building. if it has littloe hp, then massive dmg would only be a little amount and be very easy to cripple to marines. if it has too much hp, massive dmg would be a lot so it would have enough time to use its shockwave to stun the whatever kharaa lifeform that is whacking it, making it an easy kill.
3 shotgunners waiting in base for the fade to come (lets say they know the fade like to whack the MS). fade comes in.
BAM
stunned. shotgunners just finish him off. so this idea is way too overpowered.
your other point is to encourage skulks to use the walls and ceilings. it is not feasible to always use the walls and ceilings as they are hard to navigate to forcing them to use walls and ceilings in the MS would be more of a disadvantage.
about the point on shutting down buildings if damaged. well, this would vary on hwo much health u propose for the building. if it has littloe hp, then massive dmg would only be a little amount and be very easy to cripple to marines. if it has too much hp, massive dmg would be a lot so it would have enough time to use its shockwave to stun the whatever kharaa lifeform that is whacking it, making it an easy kill.
BadMouth, how can the shockwave building be overpowered, if it needs backup from the marines?
If needing more than one thing to kill any lifeform is overpowered, then the welder is overpowered.
The whole point of NS is to get people working together to being down the opposition. This building would allow the marines a defensive bonus, but not an automatic one. If no marines are around for it, then it would give the commander enough time to beacon, or for some marines to come back to the base. If combined with a TF and some active turrets, then it beings a very viable base defense. The only problem would be getting the HP to a correct level, as too much HP would give a "Tesla Coil" effect, whereby the attacking players would either need to suffer a great lot of damage to take it down, or find an alternative route to attack from. Given that most MS locations are one entrance only, this would lead to overpowering defenses, which is not the objective.
To little HP, and a fade could blink in, hit the building, and possibly take down most of MS in 2 swipes, possibly one with Focus.
Even giving invulnerability to the Onos wouldn't stop people from trying their luck, as a successful gambit would leave the marine base crippled, and would actually increase the number of attacks by "suck it and see" types of players, who just go in for it, and think when they're in the respawn queue.
I would actually like to see this implemented, but only after a precise HP amount, and damage limits were calculated. I wouldn't like to work them out, as it could tip the balance too much.
If needing more than one thing to kill any lifeform is overpowered, then the welder is overpowered.
The whole point of NS is to get people working together to being down the opposition. This building would allow the marines a defensive bonus, but not an automatic one. If no marines are around for it, then it would give the commander enough time to beacon, or for some marines to come back to the base. If combined with a TF and some active turrets, then it beings a very viable base defense. The only problem would be getting the HP to a correct level, as too much HP would give a "Tesla Coil" effect, whereby the attacking players would either need to suffer a great lot of damage to take it down, or find an alternative route to attack from. Given that most MS locations are one entrance only, this would lead to overpowering defenses, which is not the objective.
To little HP, and a fade could blink in, hit the building, and possibly take down most of MS in 2 swipes, possibly one with Focus.
Even giving invulnerability to the Onos wouldn't stop people from trying their luck, as a successful gambit would leave the marine base crippled, and would actually increase the number of attacks by "suck it and see" types of players, who just go in for it, and think when they're in the respawn queue.
I would actually like to see this implemented, but only after a precise HP amount, and damage limits were calculated. I wouldn't like to work them out, as it could tip the balance too much.
The more I think about it, the more i dislike this idea...
Fades are needed to be medium soldiers and need to be able to use speed and control in their strikes...
By having a weapon that effectively prevents them from moving provided they are touching the ground (which is another kinda grey area) this would insta-cripple the fade....
On one hand if you made the weapon produce a noticeable "ripple" effect, then fades would simply blink over it, if on the other hand it simply was an instant fast moving weapon, fades would be sitting ducks...
I can't think of a way to balance this so that it makes sense..
PLUS onos, and gorges would be the classes MOST affected by this weapon, and that to me would also be a bad thing..
But let's keep talking about it..
Fades are needed to be medium soldiers and need to be able to use speed and control in their strikes...
By having a weapon that effectively prevents them from moving provided they are touching the ground (which is another kinda grey area) this would insta-cripple the fade....
On one hand if you made the weapon produce a noticeable "ripple" effect, then fades would simply blink over it, if on the other hand it simply was an instant fast moving weapon, fades would be sitting ducks...
I can't think of a way to balance this so that it makes sense..
PLUS onos, and gorges would be the classes MOST affected by this weapon, and that to me would also be a bad thing..
But let's keep talking about it..
Interesting idea.
Assuming that this has no affect on onos (via first post's distinction), then the only effect would be lerks/fades/skulks/gorge. From that list, only fade would be important against this.
If there was a warning side, such as the obs alerting beaconing, I can see this somewhat useful yet not overpowering. In a way, it gives the marine a breather to group up and defend against fade. A simple *beep-beep-whoosh* with a one second 'chargeup' would do. Having it instant, or ripple effect just increases the learning curve of the steep skill-curve fades.
Gorges shouldn't be in the middle of the base, but rather at the edge of it. I don't see it a problem with the gorges.
My only concern is how much balance can change this, not by killing fades, but how easily marines can hold a base when assaulted. When marines are about to seige a hive, comm drops this structure and effectively prevents the fades from savagingly assault. Skulks have to be on walls, while onos is really the only option to assault that location. While this promotes teamwork... I'm worried how effectively this structure helps in holding a position, TF->seiges, then seige hive.
Maybe if it were linked to TF, comm chooses between adv. TF and it, I guess it's possible.
Assuming that this has no affect on onos (via first post's distinction), then the only effect would be lerks/fades/skulks/gorge. From that list, only fade would be important against this.
If there was a warning side, such as the obs alerting beaconing, I can see this somewhat useful yet not overpowering. In a way, it gives the marine a breather to group up and defend against fade. A simple *beep-beep-whoosh* with a one second 'chargeup' would do. Having it instant, or ripple effect just increases the learning curve of the steep skill-curve fades.
Gorges shouldn't be in the middle of the base, but rather at the edge of it. I don't see it a problem with the gorges.
My only concern is how much balance can change this, not by killing fades, but how easily marines can hold a base when assaulted. When marines are about to seige a hive, comm drops this structure and effectively prevents the fades from savagingly assault. Skulks have to be on walls, while onos is really the only option to assault that location. While this promotes teamwork... I'm worried how effectively this structure helps in holding a position, TF->seiges, then seige hive.
Maybe if it were linked to TF, comm chooses between adv. TF and it, I guess it's possible.
Although this is a "non-lethal" weapon, it does sound interesting.
Perhaps rather than stopping aliens dead, it could slow them to half speed (or whatever fraction is appropriate.) Cloaky aliens could still sneak up to the thing, but it would negate a speeding celerity skulk and give the marines a chance to shoot it, even though it is still moving. Perhaps it sends a low current of some kind though the metal floor, and this makes the nearby aliens sluggish. Although it would not affect blink speed, maybe another/alternative affect could be that it vastly increases the adrenaline needed for some/all alien weapons.
Blink could take most of a fades bar, leaving it enough for a slash maybe. (if it initiated the blink in the radius of the machine) Skulks leaps would likewise take a lot of adren, as would focus bites.
Further uses might include retarding the unaided growth of alien structures.
Perhaps rather than stopping aliens dead, it could slow them to half speed (or whatever fraction is appropriate.) Cloaky aliens could still sneak up to the thing, but it would negate a speeding celerity skulk and give the marines a chance to shoot it, even though it is still moving. Perhaps it sends a low current of some kind though the metal floor, and this makes the nearby aliens sluggish. Although it would not affect blink speed, maybe another/alternative affect could be that it vastly increases the adrenaline needed for some/all alien weapons.
Blink could take most of a fades bar, leaving it enough for a slash maybe. (if it initiated the blink in the radius of the machine) Skulks leaps would likewise take a lot of adren, as would focus bites.
Further uses might include retarding the unaided growth of alien structures.
If the fade can blink over the shockwave, then I see the fade as being the important counter to this.
"Damn, they have a hammer up in Eclipse! We need a fade over there to take it down!"
Gorges would stay out of range, using spit or something like that to try to take out marines, and the hammer keeps dropping. A marine or two drops dead. Another marine tries to phase in to take their spot with a shotty for anything getting close, gets stunned by the hammer and falls to gorge spit or a lucky skulk strike, and that skulk becomes stunned on the next drop, and the marines drop him like toast.
Around the corner comes the fade, blinks up above the shockwave and gets on top of the backside of the platform, where the marines aren't paying attention. Takes one marine out with swipe, this has the attention of the last two marines on the platform. The fade dies to the last marine, 2nd hive goes up and gorges start bile bombing the platform.
Commander issues a hold piston command to the Hammer, and more marines phase in, making it skulk turn to try and take out the incoming marines before they back up the Hammer once again. A few marines get onto the platform, but the other one falls before a skulk. Piston drops again. Wham! 2 skulks and a gorge stunned, skulks die and the gorge pulls back to safety. One marine pistol whips another gorge, and another sets to welding the platform back to green.
Piston drops again, the aliens are fadeless for the moment, but the skulks are taking to the walls and the ceiling. Marines are having a harder time tracking them, one or two actually make it onto the platform. Wham! Piston drops again. Gets another skulk out of the picture... but wait, the piston doesn't drop again.
It's out of energy.
SKulks and gorges start to swarm the Hammer, and it falls. Marines phase in desperately trying to save the locked hive, and they fail. 3rd hive starts going up, and the aliens rejoice for the time being.
"Secondary hammer is done in Computer Core, commander."
*Ping*
"Our hive is under attack!"
Aliens start using the movement chamber to find out they are under siege from a distance, and Wham! The piston drops again, stunning a few skulks giving the marines something to shoot at. More teleport in, more become stunned and smoked. Siege is laying into the hive, marines are sitting on the platform with shotties helping out the cannons.
*Blam*
A siege drops the hive and the aliens are no longer in rejoice. Now they have to fight to get that one back while the commander issues a hold command on the hammer so it can get it's reserve energy back and research a better battery in the proto lab to give it more energy, because he knows that the aliens are going to strike back with a vengeance.
Here, I have illustrated the ups and downsides for both factions involved, how it can be used with other marine equipment, and how each side can win and lose with this in their hands.
Takes, anyone?
"Damn, they have a hammer up in Eclipse! We need a fade over there to take it down!"
Gorges would stay out of range, using spit or something like that to try to take out marines, and the hammer keeps dropping. A marine or two drops dead. Another marine tries to phase in to take their spot with a shotty for anything getting close, gets stunned by the hammer and falls to gorge spit or a lucky skulk strike, and that skulk becomes stunned on the next drop, and the marines drop him like toast.
Around the corner comes the fade, blinks up above the shockwave and gets on top of the backside of the platform, where the marines aren't paying attention. Takes one marine out with swipe, this has the attention of the last two marines on the platform. The fade dies to the last marine, 2nd hive goes up and gorges start bile bombing the platform.
Commander issues a hold piston command to the Hammer, and more marines phase in, making it skulk turn to try and take out the incoming marines before they back up the Hammer once again. A few marines get onto the platform, but the other one falls before a skulk. Piston drops again. Wham! 2 skulks and a gorge stunned, skulks die and the gorge pulls back to safety. One marine pistol whips another gorge, and another sets to welding the platform back to green.
Piston drops again, the aliens are fadeless for the moment, but the skulks are taking to the walls and the ceiling. Marines are having a harder time tracking them, one or two actually make it onto the platform. Wham! Piston drops again. Gets another skulk out of the picture... but wait, the piston doesn't drop again.
It's out of energy.
SKulks and gorges start to swarm the Hammer, and it falls. Marines phase in desperately trying to save the locked hive, and they fail. 3rd hive starts going up, and the aliens rejoice for the time being.
"Secondary hammer is done in Computer Core, commander."
*Ping*
"Our hive is under attack!"
Aliens start using the movement chamber to find out they are under siege from a distance, and Wham! The piston drops again, stunning a few skulks giving the marines something to shoot at. More teleport in, more become stunned and smoked. Siege is laying into the hive, marines are sitting on the platform with shotties helping out the cannons.
*Blam*
A siege drops the hive and the aliens are no longer in rejoice. Now they have to fight to get that one back while the commander issues a hold command on the hammer so it can get it's reserve energy back and research a better battery in the proto lab to give it more energy, because he knows that the aliens are going to strike back with a vengeance.
Here, I have illustrated the ups and downsides for both factions involved, how it can be used with other marine equipment, and how each side can win and lose with this in their hands.
Takes, anyone?
The problem is not the possibility of hit&run, it is the neccessary of it.
not many players like hit and run, but aliens can not do anything else now.
not many players like hit and run, but aliens can not do anything else now.
Koulnis, I think that's a bad idea. Generally, it's a decent idea, but with what's already added... we don't need another item that fade can counter. Right now fade counters everything... except HA. But even then, a focus fade can take on a HA. It's a HA train that fades can't really countered.
I don't want NS to be the game where fade > all.
Adding this would just increase the importance of fades again. I think it's good to make onos the counter for this, instead of fade.
Of course, by doing that, marines have an advantage since onos are fairly weak vs. everything right now... but that's for a different thread.
I don't want NS to be the game where fade > all.
Adding this would just increase the importance of fades again. I think it's good to make onos the counter for this, instead of fade.
Of course, by doing that, marines have an advantage since onos are fairly weak vs. everything right now... but that's for a different thread.
| QUOTE (Koulnis @ May 17 2005, 12:33 AM) |
| If this hammer is powerful enough to stun alien lifeforms, I have no idea why it wouldn't stun marines. |
I know why.
Nanites.
| QUOTE (BadMouth @ May 17 2005, 04:43 AM) |
| this would be the ultimate fade killer. imagine this scenario. 3 shotgunners waiting in base for the fade to come (lets say they know the fade like to whack the MS). fade comes in. BAM stunned. shotgunners just finish him off. so this idea is way too overpowered. |
This is one of the reasons why I like this idea, to be used properly, it requires teamwork and strategy.
In it's current suggested state, I do think it's overpowered. I would increase the radius of affected buildings by the "power-down" to something like the decloak range of an obs. Also, this "power-down" or "nano-shock" would be induced for thirty seconds after every use of the building, with the building itself having a cooldown of 1 minute. Now, before you say this is way too much, let me add that only some parts of the buildings would be affected. Any comm-activated abilities (research, scanner sweep, etc.) would not work/be paused. Any abilities activated by marines, such as using the armoury, would remain unaffected. IP's and the CC would be unaffected because of their close ties to the command net (storyline here), and obs would no longer decloak within it's range.
Because it is a nano shockwave, resource nodes would be especially affected. Not only would they stop working for sixty seconds, but they would loose any sludge left in their compartments that has yet to be distributed (marine resouce total-the last load of res recieved from that node). Obviously, the more nodes affected, the more res lost. You cannot go into the negative this way.
Turrets and electrified buildings will not attack for the thirty seconds of shock.
Also, marines will be slowed down (50%?) for 5 seconds, in movement as well as RoF. A blur affect on the screen would be nice.
For all this, the aliens are completely paralyzed for 5 seconds, and afterwards, they return slowly (10% speed/RoF per second). They will be fully recovered in 15 seconds.
Now, consider all this. You have an extremely powerful defensive building, when it is used properly. Getting your team to lie in wait, out of range of the shockwave, and triggering the shockwave at the right moment will only be a small part of using it. The way I see it, the most difficult part of using this building should be the placment. You have a huge radius that will hinder your buildings if they are within that radius. It will also make placing it around nodes tricky because you, obviously, don't want to lose that precious res (16 per node affected, if I'm not mistaken). The building model will also have a rather large base (size of a pg) and be quite tall (height of a hive). The dimensions alone will restrict placement, but you will also want to keep the building hidden from sight from the likely path of attack.
Considering these heavy faults and restrictions, and adding that it would be very high in the tech tree (must be researched at a proto), I think it's quite viable. It is all subject to balancing, though. The end result will be a building rarely used effectively in pubs, but totally devestating in competitive play (assuming they can lure their opponents into the trap). And remember, the shockwave is triggered by the comm, not an auto-response, so you can't just build it and leave it for area denial. It has to be tended 24/7 for it's full effectivness.
Edit: Any alien buildings within range will be totally paralyzed for thirty seconds, and alien res nodes will recieve 20% damage.
Note: All numbers subject to balancing.
i like the idea... a non leathal slowing/stopping weapon.
aliens have both web (admittily hive 3) and stomp.
i like the idea, but its dependancy on ground contact kinda cripples its usefulness, how about a observatory like sctructure (charges energy for use), when activated, warning or not, after a short time a shperical bubble opens out from the building, it goes through walls and buildings, it acts kinda like a marine umbra, except large units (skulk and above, but not spore, parasite, spit, acid rocket, or even stomp) are stopped/slowed. maybe contact with the outer limits of the spere could have a web like effect? or maybe a simple reduction of max speed while inside the bubble.
like others have said, a slowing weapon would be good, but a stompers dependancy on ground contact makes it fade friendly.
aliens have both web (admittily hive 3) and stomp.
i like the idea, but its dependancy on ground contact kinda cripples its usefulness, how about a observatory like sctructure (charges energy for use), when activated, warning or not, after a short time a shperical bubble opens out from the building, it goes through walls and buildings, it acts kinda like a marine umbra, except large units (skulk and above, but not spore, parasite, spit, acid rocket, or even stomp) are stopped/slowed. maybe contact with the outer limits of the spere could have a web like effect? or maybe a simple reduction of max speed while inside the bubble.
like others have said, a slowing weapon would be good, but a stompers dependancy on ground contact makes it fade friendly.
Ahh, I did forget to clarify something, it would make a whirrling sound as the hammer charges up getting ready to pound. And the shockwave is only ground, so if a fade or a skulk were to jump, they would avoid the shockwave. Its one more thing for the fade to monitor, increasing the skill needed to harass the base. But the idea can be modified in anyway or form, ripple speed, cool down time, energy, cost, stun or slow-speed. Insert it into research to keep it from being built right away, or make it a first game item, except that each chamber type slowly weakens its ability to stun.
As for the shutdown, if you think about it. Having a thumper anywhere near a turret, phase gate, spawn point, or obs, it would temeporarily shut it down for a certain amount of time. So the upside would be that you have a building that can stun and make aliens easy targets, but if you dont monitor it, you could lose your whole base to it. Double-Edged knife.
As for the shutdown, if you think about it. Having a thumper anywhere near a turret, phase gate, spawn point, or obs, it would temeporarily shut it down for a certain amount of time. So the upside would be that you have a building that can stun and make aliens easy targets, but if you dont monitor it, you could lose your whole base to it. Double-Edged knife.
How would a multiple of these objects affect things? with 3 each being slightly mistimed would mean that base was invincible to ALL attackers..
only if they were on there own timer, other wise it would just increase there area of effect, it wont hinder said life form geting in attacking any thing in arms reach so to speak, but you wouldnt want to push your luck getting across the entire room after you have attacked three people to get the fourth hidding in that courner waaaayy over there =====================> 
seriously i don't like this idea. i just can't find what is it that i don't like about it. the idea is sort of like turrets in a warped way or something. oni will get killed by these shockwave buildings, probably fades too if they aren't careful. it just seems overpowering in a sense but at the same time it dosen't since it dosen't actually do damage.
i'm also unsure if comms will use this building or not. the way i see it, it will be a love it or hate it situation. it maybe underused because of the uncertainty of it but it may also be used a lot because it is very powerful.
overall i don't like this idea but i just can't say exactly what it is i don't like about it. it's wierd
edit: yeah... oni don't get affected. sorry forgot about that part. but the thing is these shockwave buildings can nail a fade, but... in a way it is sort of random on how often a fade gets nailed. not exactly random but random in a way
i'm also unsure if comms will use this building or not. the way i see it, it will be a love it or hate it situation. it maybe underused because of the uncertainty of it but it may also be used a lot because it is very powerful.
overall i don't like this idea but i just can't say exactly what it is i don't like about it. it's wierd
edit: yeah... oni don't get affected. sorry forgot about that part. but the thing is these shockwave buildings can nail a fade, but... in a way it is sort of random on how often a fade gets nailed. not exactly random but random in a way
Paras!te, the first poster already says that onos are not affected by these buildings, so the only thing that they can get killed is if they're stuck by them.
Zunni, considering that these things shutdown base temporary, having 3 shockwave buildings is redundant. Once one goes, the other 2 is disable for X amount of time, so it's not like a multiple scan from different obs to keep the shockwave continuous.
The thing that I like is that it gives the comm some bit of power to help the marines combat fades instead of sitting there, after dropping weapons, watching hopelessly as the fade pick the marines one by one because they don't know how to set up an ambush, or the fade's just that good.
Zunni, considering that these things shutdown base temporary, having 3 shockwave buildings is redundant. Once one goes, the other 2 is disable for X amount of time, so it's not like a multiple scan from different obs to keep the shockwave continuous.
The thing that I like is that it gives the comm some bit of power to help the marines combat fades instead of sitting there, after dropping weapons, watching hopelessly as the fade pick the marines one by one because they don't know how to set up an ambush, or the fade's just that good.
| QUOTE (Zunni @ May 18 2005, 08:29 AM) |
| How would a multiple of these objects affect things? with 3 each being slightly mistimed would mean that base was invincible to ALL attackers.. |
Multiple TF's also cause a problem, even for an onos.
If we wanted, we could say the nanites concentrated for this object make it almost impossible to render another one nearby, making a bigger radius for these not being built next to each other.
I'm seeing this as a viable defense replacement to turrets and deterrent for Phase Gates.. However, this requires strategic placement that'd only affect 1/4th of the Phase gate, which would be all you need if the PG is placed in a corner of a room. It all depends on how much space this Shockwave thing covers. I'm imagining it being used as a Hive lockdown..
I can't see it being used competitively, but I can see it as fun strategy on Pubs. Imagine a PG in the middle of a long hallway with a Shockwave on either end of it. They could be set off without killing your PG.
If updates were a simple thing to get out, I'd say: Try it. Release an update for Public play and see how it goes.
I can't see it being used competitively, but I can see it as fun strategy on Pubs. Imagine a PG in the middle of a long hallway with a Shockwave on either end of it. They could be set off without killing your PG.
If updates were a simple thing to get out, I'd say: Try it. Release an update for Public play and see how it goes.
Also, an idea is that it could be an offensive buff for hive assaults. When placed near chambers or the hive, the shockwave will temporarily hault the abilties of what ever it hits. This could prevent the hive from healing, decloak sensory chambers, make defense chambers useless when in effect. But the downside is, if the building is attacked, it will shutdown, making it useless.
I would say, when the building is damaged by X ammount of its max health, it will shutdown for Y seconds, causing the powergrid knockout effect, and making it useless for the time being.
And to keep it from being too tedius, the com could activate it, it it will automatically perform its duty by it self, but because it runs on energy, it will turn off when its depleted.
Suggestion of abilities listed in pro/con;
Pro
-Can stun any kharaa on the ground for X ammount of seconds except onos.
-Slows kharaa speed to 95% for one second. (call it like a buffet of wind that escapes from the hammer fall.)
-Can hault all alien chambers/hives in the area from their inate abilties for X ammount of seconds.
Con
-If the building takes too much damage, it will cause a temporary shutdown effect to all marine buildings within a radius, haulting research, phasegates, and spawn portals. The com chair isnt affected as it has its own backup energy source.
-It requires attention as it must be activated in order for it to work. The energy it uses prevents it from being left on.
-It doesent have affect on Lerks Or Onos, nor does it actually do damage.
Since its a balance between the commander using it, and it being useful, the above suggestions aim to keep it balanced to some extent.
I would say, when the building is damaged by X ammount of its max health, it will shutdown for Y seconds, causing the powergrid knockout effect, and making it useless for the time being.
And to keep it from being too tedius, the com could activate it, it it will automatically perform its duty by it self, but because it runs on energy, it will turn off when its depleted.
Suggestion of abilities listed in pro/con;
Pro
-Can stun any kharaa on the ground for X ammount of seconds except onos.
-Slows kharaa speed to 95% for one second. (call it like a buffet of wind that escapes from the hammer fall.)
-Can hault all alien chambers/hives in the area from their inate abilties for X ammount of seconds.
Con
-If the building takes too much damage, it will cause a temporary shutdown effect to all marine buildings within a radius, haulting research, phasegates, and spawn portals. The com chair isnt affected as it has its own backup energy source.
-It requires attention as it must be activated in order for it to work. The energy it uses prevents it from being left on.
-It doesent have affect on Lerks Or Onos, nor does it actually do damage.
Since its a balance between the commander using it, and it being useful, the above suggestions aim to keep it balanced to some extent.
With good aim, two shotties, and a welder, any decent squad can give a fade hell.
Dropping one welder makes it so that the face MUST get a kill in one hit and run or else the commander drops a med and that marine gets welded. A lot of the time Fades will weaken a marine team down and then they will get gased or skulk jumped and will be unable to put up a long fight since the fade took out two of them and the remaining three have low armor.
I think the devs aren't going to add anything like this in NSHL1 simply because of time and the fact that they are looking at other avenues like NS:S and NS2.
Dropping one welder makes it so that the face MUST get a kill in one hit and run or else the commander drops a med and that marine gets welded. A lot of the time Fades will weaken a marine team down and then they will get gased or skulk jumped and will be unable to put up a long fight since the fade took out two of them and the remaining three have low armor.
I think the devs aren't going to add anything like this in NSHL1 simply because of time and the fact that they are looking at other avenues like NS:S and NS2.
agreed, but thats usually the case for anything new. Too work is needed to rebalance game play when its already been balanced to a respectable amount.
Never the less, its still an idea that could fit the NS universe.
Never the less, its still an idea that could fit the NS universe.
I actually really like this idea, the penalties for it on both sides seem fitting , and yes it can stop that annoying fade but the base is out of commision, aliens could possibly use this to there advantage on a commander with too itchy of a trigger finger
I picture alot of shockwave then beacon desperate saving attempts
perhaps if it's still looking too strong we could make it like beacon and actually cost res per shot of it in addition to a timer
I picture alot of shockwave then beacon desperate saving attempts
perhaps if it's still looking too strong we could make it like beacon and actually cost res per shot of it in addition to a timer
And how exactly would u kill this thing if u cant get near it? its a horrid idea.
| QUOTE (Beammeup @ May 23 2005, 08:09 AM) |
| And how exactly would u kill this thing if u cant get near it? its a horrid idea. |
Bite it? Stay on top of the machine while you kill it? Use an onos (since onos is unaffected by it) to kill it?
There's various ways to kill this building; I don't see any problem with that. Not to mention that comm has to press the button and use the building in order for it to be effective. If this is placed in certain spots, aliens can attack those areas simultaneously, making it hard for comm to switch to each spot and clicking it to do its effect.
Not if the com was good. And its hard to get on to something getting stunned every 2-3 seconds. What if ur trying to bite a marine in their and thats active? suddenly 1 hmg can now easily solo 5 skulks on top of him or 2 fades. No i dislike this idea alot.
It takes a few seconds for the thing to warm up. As far as I can tell, it's probably a simple whirl sound and then it affects the area. So it's not instanteous.
What if you're biting the marine in there and it's active? Well... bad luck for you, the comm manages to save that marine in there.
1 hmg cannot easily solo 5 skulks on top of him. While they cannot move, their RoF on biting is still the same. And if they're on the wall when this happens, it doesn't affect their movements. Or even in the air... so if they're on the marine, it doesn't affect them.
Your particular example doesn't work too well with 5 skulks, since they're in the air with him. Good fades rarely touch the ground too long during combat.
What if you're biting the marine in there and it's active? Well... bad luck for you, the comm manages to save that marine in there.
1 hmg cannot easily solo 5 skulks on top of him. While they cannot move, their RoF on biting is still the same. And if they're on the wall when this happens, it doesn't affect their movements. Or even in the air... so if they're on the marine, it doesn't affect them.
Your particular example doesn't work too well with 5 skulks, since they're in the air with him. Good fades rarely touch the ground too long during combat.
I guarantee that this is over powered but hey if u think its such a great idea go for it. I just see this as being lamed can u imagine 5 of em spammed outside a hive with a few marines?
Eh... 5 of them spam out there, well... it depends on the original author's opinion how they work.
Personally, I think that using this building causes other things to shut down for a moment... like turrets/RT, etc. This is how I read the building (and not the original's author intent with damaged/recycle idea). It means that when this building is used and caught a fade, turrets don't work. RT doesn't work. PG... doesn't work.
With that in mind, 5 is redundant. When one is used, the other 4 is shutdown for the time being, including turrets/PG/RT. So they can't spam this shockwave all the time, since 4 of them got shutoff. Nor can they sit back and use shockwave and hope turrets kill the aliens... because turrets are shut off. Shockwave can only be used with marines nearby, since marines are the only ones that can take advantage of this.
Keep in mind this doesn't affect blink/leap/onos/flying.
Personally, I think that using this building causes other things to shut down for a moment... like turrets/RT, etc. This is how I read the building (and not the original's author intent with damaged/recycle idea). It means that when this building is used and caught a fade, turrets don't work. RT doesn't work. PG... doesn't work.
With that in mind, 5 is redundant. When one is used, the other 4 is shutdown for the time being, including turrets/PG/RT. So they can't spam this shockwave all the time, since 4 of them got shutoff. Nor can they sit back and use shockwave and hope turrets kill the aliens... because turrets are shut off. Shockwave can only be used with marines nearby, since marines are the only ones that can take advantage of this.
Keep in mind this doesn't affect blink/leap/onos/flying.
i think it was ment to effect just that the only way of moving was to be the arrow/ awsd keys , that is if i read this right
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