I dont know, Ive done this several times (egging on node) and the comm still droped the rt.

This used to work, but at some point it stopped working. In testing, we have been unable to stop the comm from dropping a node.

In beta 4a, it was made possible to drop resource towers on nodes even if they were blocked. This was done, if I recall correctly, to fix a bug in Ayumi where certain resource nodes were unusable.

If done expertly you can keep the aliens at one node all game.

Coms can listen for gestating gorges, and drop a node on thier node then either hot key it or instantly recycle and hotkey it. Remember which nodes correspond to which hot keys and then just drop and recycle a new node every time an old one finishes (since the icon dissapears when a structure compleats recycling).

It takes a good 3 skulks concentrating on a node all together to take it out before it recycles unless they really go hardcore on it and sit thier waiting for you to drop and start a new one so 2 can attack it together.

If you don't let the skulks get any kills the earliest the aliens can put up a hive or go first fade is 6 mins. Which any good player can tell you is WAY too late. even if the marines get a slower upgrade and tech game, with no aliens getting nodes they are screwed. The best thing is, fades in this style game can't even acctually take nodes for the aliens, the best they can do is push the marines farther back and force the com to drop/recycle a greater precentage of nodes.

Basicly if a really good comm acctually does this the aliens get to wait to die all game.

If the gorge binds a key to building an RT, it is not terribly hard to slip the alien RT in before the comm drops a new one. If the comm is merely watching the hotkeyed item in the HUD and not watching the node directly, it is trivial for the gorge to drop a node when the marine RT finishes recycling.

Again, no. It takes one skulk to get on it as soon as it is dropped to eat it before it finishes recycling. Recall that just-dropped buildings have half the HP of finished buildings. Try testing it sometime. For many nodes, skulk defense positions are close enough that one will be handy to do this. For others, it is not too hard to guess that the marines will drop a new RT after the current one and pull a skulk back to cost the marines 15 of their starting res the next time they try to drop one.

Against experienced players, node-blocking buys a bit of time. That's all. The above quotes are good examples of why node-blocking is more painful for inexperienced players. I have blocked nodes against a fair number of clans, and rarely get to drop the same node twice against experienced ones (no offense meant to those who were blocked multiple times; it's just that players who haven't dealt with node-blocking before tend to react to it rather poorly). The ones that I have managed to drop twice I imagine the aliens let go on purpose, as they were quickly chomped down, costing us much of our starting res.

Node-blocking delays the building of alien RTs, forces the aliens to be vulnerable by keeping their gorges in the field (and hence keeping the team at fewer skulks) for longer, allows marines to reach the node before the gorge can drop the RT. On the other hand, it requires a fair bit of attention from the comm (though I hope that most comms can handle it) and makes it very easy for the aliens to take out a fair chunk of the marine's starting res.

Yes, it is annoying to be node-blocked. Node-blocking costs 15 of the marines' already-stretched 100 starting res. For that much, the marines could send out a shotgun, which, with the 5 res left over (RT is 15, shotgun is 10), would likely generate enough RFK to pay for a second shotgun. Do you think node-blocking is comparable in damage to the aliens to two early shotguns?

Most gorges when they realize you've node blocked on them run somewhere else. If you node block on thier next node they soon get the picture. At that point some just sit and wait for you to finish recycling so they can drop a node, but you can be tricky and not instantly recycle every node either. If you start recycling at the same time the node starts to be bitten it will not go down to one skulk. I haven't done the math of it, but I have played the situation many times in game before.

If you can force a gorge to sit idly by a node and wait for it to recycle, chances are you can get a rine there and cap yourself a gorgie. Forces aliens to wait signifigantly longer to reskulk, and pushes early fade and early hive signifigantly later into the game. Of course a good alien team will just start working together to take the nodes near thier hive properly, but by that time you're more then caught up from your normal expansion.

A node that is recycled costs 4 res, so you get 4 node blocks for the price of two early shotguns. IMO that does more damage then two early shotties ever could. Fades come out 1-2 minutes later, as does hive 2, and you get a boost in your initial res expansion because gorges take longer to reskulk. If you acctually manage to kill a gorge or two, you seriously start to screw over the aliens. by 2 minutes your blocked nodes have more then paid for themselfs, and you didn't have any marines poncing around in base waiting for L0 shottys.

Its still risky because like you say, if the nodes do get chomped down 15 res is ALOT to lose in the early game for a node that was never active. But on the other side that is a full ~30 seconds you didn't have to deal with 2 skulks elsewhere...

Perhaps change to:

"Any action that bypasses a game design decision ( e.g. blocking a resource point with a structure other than an RT within x units of a Marine at the time of dropping, blocking an elevator with either a structure or player)"

I don't know whether all Commanders are forced to demo in CAL, or whether HLTV would clearly show the distance to the nearest 'rine, but if not you could still change 'x' to a suitable amount which would leave no doubt as to whether someone was deliberately trying this tactic or not. If it was an amount that meant that a Commander could not drop an RT in this area within the first 15-20 seconds of a game because a 'rine could not physically be within range, then it might sort the problem.

This is merely because they lack experience with it.
First, for many nodes, a skulk will already be handy to eat the node down, costing the marines 15 res. If there is no skulk around, then the gorge (obviously) needs to wait for the node to finish recycling. He then has two options. He could have had a skulk come over in the meantime, waiting to eat the node on its second drop, costing the marines a precious 15 res, or he can use his build rt bind to drop the node before the comm drops it again.
Running to the next node is rarely a viable response to a node block, as aliens are generally already pushing the limits of map area they can cover, and going to an even further node is an almost-guaranteed waste of 25 res.

No. Go test it. It only takes two people. If the skulk starts biting the instant the node starts recycling, the node will die with 2-3 bars left on the recycle. Your claim is probably due to attempts either to eat nodes that marines have built a little, or to a little delay in biting after the recycle starts, or not starting with near-full energy. For a single skulk to take out a recycling node, he has little time to start biting, and if the node has a small amount of extra health from being built some, then the skulk cannot finish in time.

For most nodes, gorges can gestate safely in the vent, and do not need to expose themselves if the node is blocked. In addition, if your skulks are letting any decent number of marines get to the node in that time, then it is quite possible that the marines would be able to take the node out anyway. Node-blocking requires marine pressure to be effective. Without marines pushing on the blocked node, the only effect of the node block is to delay the alien RT by 20 seconds. If marines do this to one node, this costs the alien team 5 res. That is just under 1 res per player. If the marines do this to two nodes, this costs the aliens 10 res. Without marines pushing on the nodes, this barely has a higher net cost for aliens than marines, and it makes the marines really strapped for res in the early game. In addition, it announces to the aliens where the marines will be going, and provides excellent cover for skulks (unbuilt marine RTs cause the death of many frontiersmen).

Actually, a recycled node has a net cost of 3 res, but that's not terribly important. Examining net cost does not tell the full story. Being short that res in the early game comes at a cost. This is simple economics. Having res early is better than having res late.

Just as the alien game gets delayed by the nodes going up late, the marine game gets delayed. IP + armory costs 30. AL/A1 costs 40. That leaves 30 of the marines' starting 100 res. If you block two nodes, that leaves you unable to drop any RTs for yourself. If you block one, you can only drop one node until about the 1:20 mark. Every 15 res you spend on blocking nodes is 15 res you can't spend capping your own. Recall that the starting res also goes towards meds and ammo for your pressure team. Marines can make the res situation a little less tight by skipping A1, but this makes pressure tough, and delays the marine game in a different manner.

I think that most of the trouble caused by node-blocking comes from simple inexperience. As my fellow NS players here have been so kind to demonstrate, the immediate reaction by a new player to a blocked node causes more damage than the simple fact of the node ever could.

I'm not claiming that node-blocking is a bad strategic decision for marines. I'm just trying to point out the many aspects of it overlooked by some of its opponents.

In Season 4, DoM vs bm on minesh!t, I made sure everyone egged on the nozzle. Churro still dropped nodes through the eggs. That was beta 4a.

Well, let's be realistic here. If your pressure team blitzes a likely alien node and you DROP IT, you forewarn them that you will drop that node. But if your pressure team blitzes that node anyways without dropping it, then the gorge won't suspect anything until it's too late. Even in competitive play, I don't see 2 skulks literally guarding the same room that the gorge is in at the very beginning. They'd try to scout out marine locations.

It's a bit of a gamble, since if you catch the gorge undefended, you can take both the gorge AND the RT and wasting 25 res instead of 10.

But of course, good aliens parasite, but assuming hive is subsector and your team goes via topo, then you might squeeze through.

3 marines move through keyhole early game. A gorge eggs in southloop vent. The marines are delayed in key outside of south loop.
The commander drops the node as the gorge hatches. This leaves the marine team less than 20feet away from the node--they mite even have line of sight.
Has the commander illegaly blocked the node? Say there were 4 alien skulks in south loop, the gorge may have dropped the node regardless of the close marines, but he cant.

The marine team mite end up building the node, what if they die?

It is not only 'hard' to make a ruling on such an event it is impossible.


This tactic can be extremely effective--frequently too effective, but a solution lies outside the bounds of a 'rule'.



edit: I remember the first time a team did this to us in a scrim. The next round I dropped a CC on every node they attempted to drop. The alien team never got a node up. The CC block on the node was an almost unstoppable strategy as marine. Blocking with an rt is luckly not as effective, but on specific maps and in specific situations I believe the RT block is still overpowered.

if you want to get technical about it then the marines could probably dispute you under the same rule if you were able to block them with an egg on the rt. in my opinion, node blocking is a valid strategy and definately has its tradeoffs. tbh it would take an insanely good comm to node block a good gorge more than once. feel free to dispute me on that but if you do you are wrong. =)

touche!

In regards to homicides comment: Im specificaly talking about an immediate drop and recycle, where there is no obvious attempt to build that node.

the problem with this whole debate (which the cal admins are trying so delicately to point out) is that there is no feasible way of differentiating between an intentional exploit or an accidental drop and recycle. comm's are allowed to make mistakes too aren't they? =x

That depends largely on game size--although since this is the competitive forum, most posters here are going to assume 6v6 game size.

In large game sizes (above 6v6), dropping and not recycling is simply a waste of 15 res, as there will always be enough skulks nearby to destroy the rt and cost you your precious early game res.

In small games sizes (2v2-4v4?) dropping and not recycling takes on an entirely different light. There may not be any skulks nearby at all, and in that case the gorge can either A) walk to another node, which will probably be harder to defend, or B) lose his 10 res by egging back to skulk to chew it down himself (very bad plan), or C) call for a skulk from another part of the map to come back and help him with this node.

In medium games (6v6), there is a fine balance between risk and reward...will they have enough nearby skulks to drop your nodes, costing you 15-30 res for little benefit? Or will you catch them while the skulks are busy/elsewhere, substantially delaying their res expansion, and buying time for your own expansion when field skulks have to run back home?