Currently the role of redemption is frustrated for NS mode because it is too random, and unbalanced for co mode because that one upgrade instantly means a fraction of kills are made for the same ammount of shots. The trick is to find a middle ground where redemption lifeforms don't remain the rediculous bullet sponges that they currently are, while at the same time finding a way to remove the randomness so players can bank on redemption, at least part of the time.

Basicly the idea is that redemption is tweaked so it ALWAYS works as soon as the lifeform drops below 40% health (at level 3, 55% at level 2, and 70% at level 1), and it does so instantly. When lifeforms are teleported back to the hive they do so with 1 HP and 0 armor, this is to prevent redempted lifeforms from being invincible, and to keep them from instantly being back in the field the moment they redemted. That's basicly it.

Pros:
-Redemption is more viable for all the other lifeforms asside from onos, because it always works, even with skulks who have a good chance of dying very rapidly redemption would save them the majority of the time.
-Retains it's peril free base smashing characteristics. When your far away from the hive it is the only upgrade that will guarentee your longevity, no matter what situation you get in
-Is not insanely overpowered in combat. Lifeforms that have redempt can't assult marines as long, and even one luckily placed JP grenade will finish them off when they warp back to the hive. Plays well with the combat marines paniced offencive stratigies, and means a good alien team keeps thier hive more defended the way they should be for the protection of thier redempting lifeforms.

Cons: I can't think of any... can you?

wow this could make any marine hiding in the hive very happy when they meet a fade or onos who just redempted. i like the concept but needs tweaking.

tbh, I don't like it simply for that reason.. the hive is one place the aliens should feel safe/secure....

and with enough DC's in a hive an onos can be back in battle quite quickly....

Let me think some more about this...

I agree with Zunni the hive is the aliens safety zone. But redemption does need some fixing how about instead of being redemed to the hive you get plonked in some random place on the map but you only get redemed between 30-50% health below that you go to the hive.

I'm not sure if this will work with the HL engine but mappers can implement random redem points across the map?

I don't like this idea. I believe it'll encourage more marines (or at least one) to hide in the hive, then unload a clip as soon as he finds a redeemed alien. I can see this as a viable way to fix redemption in CO, but eh... you just have to nade spam alien spawn and this upgrade becomes a real big crutch for aliens.

A jp with HMG spraying nearby the hive would take out any redeemed aliens in CO. Marines would rambo/camp more at the hives in NS by chance to get rid of fades/onos/lerks.

With that in mind, I don't think anyone in the right mind would take redemption in CO, and redemption in NS becomes 'oh I hope nobody is at the hive when I redeemed.'

Wait ... the only time the hive is threatened is usually when the aliens are about to lose. Not always ... but yeah.

During the entire "battling for resources" time the alien is invincible? I don't like it simply because the only time an alien is vernarable is in the hive ... and the hive is secure 90% of the time ... 100% of the time if you are winning which means the lifeform never dies and hte marines never get res?

It's a valid idea.. Not my choice for how I'd fix redempt, but valid

So moving it !

nice i like it, but isnt there a issues with exsplosive damage that has cliped inside a redemption ono and take back to the hive, cos i am pritty shore i have had a redemption ono redeem on my head and die and i have teken damage, or was that just laggy hit boxes and a fat **** on my head

wicked idea, but 1 hp might be a little to little, one hp would be ok if you could run like a hit boxes cheack, so you redeem your on the health you left at, the lagg hit boxes catch up caculate you new hp then cheaks then drops hp to one(it would be a blink of a eye thing but effective

i then thought hum this still seams a little over powered, it has no timer which is nice for sulks, but it seams over powered maybe a cooldown.. wait a minute your on 1 hp theres ya cool down...

so i aplaud you swift you have done it... you have also given my celerity gorgie a new job chaseing redeemed aliens out of hte hive to heal them to get them into combat faster, you have als exstended the hive room as passages leading out of hte hive room will now need to be lined with dc's to aid in geting the men back out in the feild

the only problem i see goes back to my original idea, redemption problem isnt when its going to save you from dieing, its when it saves you from wining, 30%hp is still a lot, i guess i cant have cancel button, and i guess that rine is going to wait till the pg is on last bit of health phase thro shot me i redeem he goes back gets a welder heals pg and builds a base by time i get back there, i guess ill have to take it as a slap on the shoulder and call it redemptions down side, as with this idea you have sujested itsthe only one i can see being a problem, for me any way

yes thats correct i dis agree with all you people saying what if i redeem to a hive with rines it it, tough bicckies they shouldnt be there in the first place, and it cant rain all the time

That's a tad complicated, and 8 is way too many DCs to waste in the hive room.

Just give the lifeform enough invulnerability to pick up 1 tick of regeneration from the hive and any DCs, then drop it.

So it won't be at 1 hp once it's vulnerable.

hmm /me thinks about a new marine class for my thread at the Frontiersmen Tactics atm...

"Teh Hive Sneak0r and Onos with Knife Kill0r!!11!" ftw

Nex9: The point of the somewhat high remaining hitpoint percentage is to balance out the ono's power. With cara or regen you can stay in longer and get more done in one round, but you have to back off if 3 HMGs come your way, or else you have absolutly no chance. My redempt onos charge in and kick **** against ANYTHING. Unless the hive is being pressured, my redmept onos has no need to fear 5 HMG/JP. The down side is against LMG or shotty teams he tends to get warped back to the hive after a confrontation or two, whereas a regen onos could just keep on owning the buggers.

exsackly this is why i like it, sulks can get all the benifits to and suffer the same consicenses, i still vote yes for this idea

I love this idea, the hive should be SECURE, making the gorges want to oc lame up hives even more, making the 'home base' more like other rts games, defend with strong outside, but the inside has a soft core (redempted aliens) and kind of pushes aliens to want secure areas much like marines.