Some concern has been raised as to the viability of DCs, especially in the early game for aliens. This isn't new, it was always a problem with them, but they're so useful to the later life-forms that DMS was the standard.

Well, with the internal regeneration of the aliens now in place, the primary reasons for having Ds in the first place has been reduced. This makes their early-game weakness apparant.

To address that, it's been suggested in another thread that DCs put out umbra in a number of situations. This thread has been split off to simply discuss that idea, since for some reason Swiftspear doesn't like it under the thread title of "DCs need to be better"

My proposal was that when marines get in a certain radius of the DC, however it was pointed out that this reveal the presence of sensory chambers in the area. (Which in my mind isn't necessarily a bad thing since it can be dealt with simply by aliens thinking before placing -- much like OCs)

The other suggestion that was put forward was having DCs produce a cloud of umbra when damaged. This has some interesting possibilities, especially when you consider games with friendly fire enabled.

Both of these suggestions would have significant benefits in the early game, as pointed out "like a reverse electrify". DC's in a hive room or near an RT would serve as added protection for the structure. It's also been suggested that after an umbra spray, the healing speed is reduced for a moment or two so as not to unbalance things. The numbers could be played with to determine what works well.

I tend to think that ether of these methods would give the alien team more reason to consider the defense chamber first without being so powerful as to lock in any set order.

I liked it in the other thread, and I like it now. Seeming spores don't stack, maybe the numbers could be fiddled, but I think this would bring back a bit more usefulness to the DC.

i like the idea of spiting umbra when taken damage, but not when rines enter said radius around dc

hmm i think releasing umbra when a DC is shot is an interesting possiblity as DCs need to be improved to be on par with other chambers right now. however, i don't think it will fix the current problem very well since i think the main problem is that upgrades are free, so skulks are encouraged to take them, but DC upgrades simply don't match the SC and MC ones. combined with the innate regen, aliens have less of a need to take up the once essential regeneration upgrade when they are advanced lifeforms

Nice idea, would make it a little more unique, and also make it harder for a HMG troop or LMG to take a group of OCs with defense chambers in front. Forcing the marines to get GL or grenade early too. Can't really complain on this one.

Thumbsup.

I think I would prefer if it only happened when it is +use'd... With an appropriate cooldown time.

Perhaps it would be better if dcs sprayed umbra when a structure near them was damaged?

Good point Decimator, but the radius would have to be pretty small that it detects damage within. If only because the spores wouldn't help!

I don't see how this would stop people from knifing the DC's (which nullifies the umbra)

and would only be beneficial if you were standing next to teh DC and would easily give their location away (if they were in a vent for example)


Not a big fan but it could be tweaked.

I kinda a like it, but there are some issues that makes me worried.

Zunni, I think DC are intend to be used with OC to make this somewhat useful... having lone DC still allows marines to knife it down without incident (unless some alien comes and rescue it)

I agree with align that this should be on +use rather than when the DC gets damage. Probably both to get the benefits.

I'm worried how this'll affect early fades. This may give more of an advantage to the fades than intend.

This gives WoL a slight comeback... no longer can you just kill 2-3 OCs with 1-2 DCs easily... since they get auto-umbra. It might so happen you have to seige it instead, or have some GLer there. Even then, the aliens come out of that spot with umbra, allowing them to get a bit more bullets before reaching the marines.

It's an interesting ideas, but it may have some side-effects that's unintended that's making me worried.

I don't see why it should be hugely useful so as to nullify knife either though? If a marine gets close enough and survives killing any oc's or whatever to knife the remaining structures then played that man.

The idea is that DC's have that little extra to make them a little more viable as a first chamber again. If their effect was totally encompassing then we would go back to DMS and be back in trouble!

if anything is damaged within a small radius of a DC, have it spore over it...it helps give OC defences a little more legitimacy, as well as giving the DC a little more use around the map, in the same way MC's and SC's are useful around the map.

Oooww OOoow +e key, now ders a idea, reason i say is cos this way dc's wouldnt be much help if left unatended, but if a gorgie is there he can keep a consistant stream of umbra, cos to my under standing, if they spat out umbra on damage or detected damage near them, then most if not all would fire off a spore, then it would fade away and be a cool down till the next cycle yes?

but how is this stoping rines from puting one bullet into the chamber ducking back waiting for clouds to clear then in that cycle time they jump out and blast every thing

with the +e key the gorgie would have to play musical dc's to keep a consistant stream or umbra, as well as spit off rushsers, heal some structures and keep a watch full eye on if hes cloaked and how much, if his energys full and were the mc is if he needs to escape, i vote the use key give sgorgie smore things to do, would almost be as intence as comming

Well if it's timed so there is a time not to spore, then I'd say that is a good tactic...but aliens will be alerted to you attacking while you wait.

If it's timed so it constantly covers with spore while things are beign attacked, then that is generally what I was thinking when it was suggested.

I don't think it should be a use thing, why must we have all these idea's where we need yet more things to press? You don't have to use the MC to get it's energy regen ability, you don't have to use an sc to be cloaked by it or see it's SoF...so why should you have to use a DC that spores when things very directly close to it are attacked.

Giving DC umbra makes a lot of sense. My vision of how it would work is that it emits a constant umbra around itself in a fairly large Radius, twice as big as a Lerk umbra. DC would have half as much HP, so they will take the same amount of bullets to destroy, but will die faster to knife or grenades or sieges. This gives DC more purpose which is defending surrounding aliens and structures. Placing several DCs in one spot would be wasteful since umbra doesn't stack at all.

I'm not forgetting I need to sue MC to move to another hive, but that's an extraordinary reason to use it. You under no circumstances want the MC to teleport you without you wishing to. The DC situation is completely different.

BTW, the lerk lost it's "support" class status a long time ago. It's now the advance scout class, the guerilla class, and the pre-emptive class. The gorge supports now, thanks to MC...the lerk just makes sure the marines are weaker when the battle starts, and keeps an eye on things.

OC's right now are pathetic anyway, and marines have long learned how to get rid of them even if it takes time. If aliens want to put up proper oc defenses using DC backup then lets let them.

What's an OC if it isn't an active defence?

I say it should emit umbra when a player or building is shot/damaged within x-radius of the DC

This way, you MUST kill the DC before you kill the OC's, which gives the OC's more time

I would say have it puff out an umbra cloud when it's hit. The cloud has the same stats as the lerk variant (possibly higher absorption rate?), and there is a 30 sec to 1 minute cooldown between puffs. This would give them a huge boost, but only if used stratigically. Since the effects don't stack, you could place a single DC infront of a few OCs, where it's likely to be hit, but doesn't block too much of the OCs field of fire. Used this way, it could hugely improve aliens static defenses, without being to overpowering, and requiring a bit of forethought and careful placement.

And remember, umbra does nothing to stop GLs or knives, so you can still take out OC walls quickly. This would mainly boost the early game and early-mid game, before the GLs come out.

lol gls come out early game, trust me on this seen it happen, boy was i shocked