One of the issues I have had with catpacks has been that they are only useful in very specific circumstances. The commander may not drop them when you need them, or he may drop them when you really don't need them.

So why not remove the catpack 'drop' altogether? Let's make catpacks like grenades. Once researched, you are given one in your inventory. You can use it whenever you feel it is necessary. It would be activated in the same way grenades are, and not only would be more effective in classic, it would be more effective in combat too. Like the grenade or welder, this would be an extra item in your inventory. (not a drop item on death though - and not refillable by the comm) While some people may have issues with what the catpack does/does not affect, this thread is about the delivery of the catpack, not the effect it may have.

As for balance concerns, make the research cost the variable that you balance. So if the cost to research catpacks makes it too 'good' for marines, bump the cost a bit. I don't think that would be needed though, and it would be easy to test in a balance patch.

The result in battle will likely have a marine using a catpack before engaging an alien. So an alien could choose to engage an 'enhanced' marine, or they can retreat briefly until the catpack wears off. Since this is an inventory item, they would not be able to activate it while firing.

This might help to even up the marine imbalance that people complain about without beefing the marines themselves.

Regards,

Savant

I like this idea. I could be implemented several ways, the comm could still drop the catpacks, but the marines push a key, or selected from there inventory when to use it. The simple key push would make it effective while in combat or would really surprise the aliens; this would obviously be more powerful than selecting in from the inventory.

If catpacks were changed to something like this, I could see them being used in a lot more games.

I recalled several threads considering comm dropping catpacks and marines picking them up, to use them at later situations (like welders). I like either ideas, whether comm drops them or marine spawns with them. Let me see if I can pull up the threads.

Edit: some links I've found:

Catpacks

There are more, but I think they've been locked and shelved away.

Then, of course, there's the big thread in future:
Future thread: Catpacks

Yeah I had looked over the 'future thread', but it was so packed with ideas I didn't want this to get lost amongst the replies. Plus I had no idea if there was any merit to the suggestion, so I figured it would be better to run it by the forum.

There are a couple problems I have with comms 'dropping' catpacks, but the main problem is that I can never REALLY see the commander dropping catpacks very often unless they are free. Even if they were 1 res each, you still have the research cost on top of that, just for the 'ability' to BUY them later.

My suggestion in principle is really to get the catpacks off the ground and into the marine hands. Overall I think that a (competent) marine would be better able to determine when to use a catpack, since the commander can't be watching every second.

The only alternative would be to remove catpacks as a 'physical' item, and make them an instant buff that can be delivered by the commander. For example, the commander researches catpacks, and then when he is ready to use them, he selects a group of marines and presses a hotkey. At that moment all selected marines are given the catpack buff, and the cost is deducted from the res pool.

However, I still think the cost would deter commanders from using it, which is why I think that making it a one time upgrade with no per-use cost would be the best way to go. If you compare catpacks to grenades I think grenades are more 'valuable' than catpacks, but the comm doesn't have to pay and drop each one individually.

That's what I'm looking at here. Catpacks will never really see use unless they are seriously buffed, or the cost removed entirely. Since free catpacks would be too powerful, I think we should make catpacks so they are researched and delivered like grenades, which sit in the marine's inventory until used.

Regards,

Savant

If you make catpacks as an item that is carried, having it in the weapons switch would first off be entirly useless. Because of the weapon switch timer, It would be useless for it would be to slow, and once you pulled it out, a fade would prob just run away, unless they waited for the sound to happen, then they run away at the swound and since it will take .5 seconds to switch weapon to something usefull. (or what ever time) The fade will be gone..


If your gonna go with the idea of it being an item. It needs to be something that can be binded to a key and be used instantly.

ELSE.. make catpacks Cost 2 or 1 rez after research without changing the recost to more than +5 of the orignal.

or you could make it so it still costs 3, but no longer requires research.

sorry guys it cant be done it would require a weapon slot, and tere none left, you could howerver maybe inculde it into the menu,

when i saw this idea i thought of the this thread :catpacks as theslan pointed out. i thought the idea was actually interesting and had some potential although it hasn't been reviewed yet

I think the main problem with catpacks is that researching them takes valuable weapons and armor upgrade time. If they were moved to a different structure like the armory, or even the comm chair, I think they would be used a lot more.

Do this please I really like the idea and instead of just cal coms using it maybe EVERYONE will? Just put it in weapons 4 slot with all the other misc items.

yea having cat packs binded to a key... have 1 or 2 cats, awsome idea

but dont remove it from being able to be droped... have 2 researches... 1 for cat packs and 1 after you research that for 2 cats whenever you press the key binded to it...

but yea great idea

I hear what people are saying, but in talking to people who are 'serious' comms, they have all (but 1) said that they wouldn't pay to drop catpacks unless they were significantly enhanced to the point where they were overpowered. They all said that the cost for research/drops really killed catpacks (in classic), and that it could never be justified since there is too much else that is more important to buy.

Remember, there is only so much res to go around, and commanders won't spend res on catpack research unless there is a big payoff, OR there is no other cost to it.

Ask yourself this... If grenades cost res to research AND cost 3 res to drop each time, would you (as a comm) pay to drop them? Honestly? I don't think many comms would do it, or if they did it wouldn't be very often. Cost per drop is what is killing catpack use, but making them free is too powerful. That's why I think making catpacks like grenades is the way to go. Not to mention that it would be better to use it this was in combat instead of getting a catpack AFTER you get a kill.

As for taking a slot, I believe that it takes a slot already. Anything that is dropped in the game should take a slot, whether it stays in inventory or not. (at least that was what I remembered from way back when.)

Regards,

Savant

Cat packs in inventory? loller.

would be crap tbh, i prefer the comm to spam them.

Well... there are two ways to go with this.

One is to have a research cost, and be able to spam via energy system similar to the obs. The other way is there's no research cost but each spam costs 3 or so res.

Or... the third way is to go with your idea making it similar to gernades. Personally, I don't see how this'll work, because of the weapon-switch delay similar to the problem with gernades right now. Unless the marine switches to catpack originally, there's a good amount of delay between weapon->catpack->weapon (not so much as gernades). Maybe that's intended in your idea, Savant, I don't know.

As for slots, if that's true, then it's not too much of a worry.