This is a pretty simple idea, though I don't know how feasible it is:
Old broken catpack: increases rate of fire for 8 (or was it 10?) seconds
New hotness catpack: allows you to use reserve ammo without reloading for 10 seconds
So if you have 50/100 in LMG, you can fire all 150 bullets without reloading (within 10 seconds). GL + catpack would obviously be a deadly combination here.
Overpowered? Just right? Well-done? (numbers can be tweaked)
Full Version: Catpack = Use Reserve Ammo
Unknown Worlds Forums > Natural Selection > Natural Selection Discussion > Ideas and Suggestions Forum > Ideas for future versions
definitely imbalanced. i just want the cat pack to reload faster. what is the point of cat pack in co with a lmg when by the time you get a cat pack you only have half/empty clip?
How about reducing it to 5 seconds?
quite overpowered. GL and cata will be the most deadly combination known to NS and the number of GL spamming rants woudl go up by 10X. combining it wif pistol against the skulk would make it like a LMG i think.
then there r some who will say it is not realistic to use your reserve ammo without reloading. gameplay>realism but this is too much!
then there r some who will say it is not realistic to use your reserve ammo without reloading. gameplay>realism but this is too much!
| QUOTE |
| combining it wif pistol against the skulk would make it like a LMG i think. |
Why would the comm catpack you so you can use your pistol to kill a skulk...?
| QUOTE |
| GL and cata will be the most deadly combination known to NS and the number of GL spamming rants woudl go up by 10X. |
Then let's make it last 3 seconds with the GL, or just make it not work at all with it.
cat packs are realy good as is they just need to speed up reload times.
| QUOTE (Therites @ May 2 2005, 10:47 PM) |
| cat packs are realy good as is they just need to speed up reload times. |
I've heard that was technically impossible (or at least very difficult). Something about having to make new animations.
If they manage to find a way to increase reload speeds, then I'm all for that instead of this idea. I proposed this idea as an alternative to what is apparently technically exceedingly difficult.
It does mean a new set of animations but I would imagine that this would be just a sped up version of the current animations for each weapon. Then again it I don't know how much that might add to the NS download.
You could have the reload animations play faster very easily. Each animation sequence runs at a certain framerate; if you boost that framerate the anim will play faster.
| QUOTE (Crispy @ May 2 2005, 02:59 PM) |
| It does mean a new set of animations but I would imagine that this would be just a sped up version of the current animations for each weapon. Then again it I don't know how much that might add to the NS download. |
It would not be much at all. A new animation is a matter of Kb, but the work required to synchronise it with the reload time is considerable. Notice that the current weapons are still off by almost whole seconds. (Shotgun and GL being the worst candidates, although they have improved substantially.)
The draw-ammo-from-reserve idea has been suggested before, and the final word is always "HMG". 2 marines with HMGs would be able to deal with massive amounts of aliens with only some simple cat- and ammo- pack spam.
I agree that something does need to be done with catalyst though. Perhaps if there was some serious re-balancing and tweaking of numbers this could work, but I would not like to be the one doing it. Add a delay when feeding from a HMG? Limit it to 4 nades from a GL? Lots of options.
Agreed with BlueNovember that this idea with catpack makes HMG the ultimate weapon. Get a group of marines, spam them with ammo/cats and they would fire nonstop.
Spam this in a HA train, and they would be unbeatable (unless they really can't aim with that HMG).
Good try on adjusting cats to work differently; just that this suggestion seems to make marines become chain-weapon gods.
Spam this in a HA train, and they would be unbeatable (unless they really can't aim with that HMG).
Good try on adjusting cats to work differently; just that this suggestion seems to make marines become chain-weapon gods.
Why is it that you all use CO reasons?
Don't think CO, CO is just **** anyway.
This is the best idea i've seen in a month.
There's really no problem, because what dosn't GLs and Catpacks cost?
alot.
Don't think CO, CO is just **** anyway.
This is the best idea i've seen in a month.
There's really no problem, because what dosn't GLs and Catpacks cost?
alot.
Diablo, the reason I said below was for NS, not CO. If the comm starts spamming them ammo packs and cats, if you have say... 2 HA/HMGs, they can fire nonstop since they're using their 125 + 250 + ammo packs that keep spamming. You end up with HAs wielding chain-guns with unlimited ammo with no reload time (unless the comm stops spamming ammo/cat.
For me, that seems too much of an advantage for marines to have.
For me, that seems too much of an advantage for marines to have.
I have a variation of the original idea...
What if when you are given a catpack, it has no initial effect. However once you press attack you will fire two whole clips (no reload between), without any way of stopping. After which you cannot receive another catpack for X seconds.
What if when you are given a catpack, it has no initial effect. However once you press attack you will fire two whole clips (no reload between), without any way of stopping. After which you cannot receive another catpack for X seconds.
| QUOTE (Diablo fx @ May 2 2005, 05:18 PM) |
| Why is it that you all use CO reasons? ... There's really no problem, because what dosn't GLs and Catpacks cost? alot. |
Where in the thread is there any referrence to CO?
Catpack cost is minimal. Research + 3 res a pack. The cost is too small to give it all-killing-fade power.
As a non DC fade try killing a HMG HA. It's tricky.
Now give him a buddy.
With another HMG.
That fires constantly.
:|
| QUOTE (A Boojum Snark @ May 2 2005, 07:01 PM) |
| I have a variation of the original idea... What if when you are given a catpack, it has no initial effect. However once you press attack you will fire two whole clips (no reload between), without any way of stopping. After which you cannot receive another catpack for X seconds. |
Hmm. This has merit. Still, 2 HMG clips... If X was very large, then this could still work. It's easier to implement than increasing reload times and a better idea than removing reload altogether.
Being able to fire multible clips without the pause of reloading (regardless of duration) is, in my opinion, overpowering; after all, there's reasoning behind why clip sizes are fashioned in the way they are now (especially in the case of the GL). Plus, how would it concievably be achieved: once you recieve a cat-pack, does your reserve ammunition suddenly become belt-fed?
The cat-pack should simply speed up reloading time as well, though the research item itself could use some fixes. Perhaps, make the cost less (15 resources) while in turn increasing the research time; the irony is, all the more vital upgrades (Phase Tech, Advanced Armory, Armor level 1, etc.) have relatively lower costs [for the benefit they provide] in turn for longer research time, so why should an optional upgrade take such little time to research but carry an unusually high price tag? Another suggestion would be to move the research to another building alltogether, but that's both a bit extreme and off-topic.
The cat-pack should simply speed up reloading time as well, though the research item itself could use some fixes. Perhaps, make the cost less (15 resources) while in turn increasing the research time; the irony is, all the more vital upgrades (Phase Tech, Advanced Armory, Armor level 1, etc.) have relatively lower costs [for the benefit they provide] in turn for longer research time, so why should an optional upgrade take such little time to research but carry an unusually high price tag? Another suggestion would be to move the research to another building alltogether, but that's both a bit extreme and off-topic.
Slower ROF from reserve ammo. Increased cost. Decreased duration.
Are these 3 tweaks enough to balance this idea out?
Are these 3 tweaks enough to balance this idea out?
| QUOTE (Theslan @ May 2 2005, 04:48 PM) |
| Spam this in a HA train, and they would be unbeatable (unless they really can't aim with that HMG). Good try on adjusting cats to work differently; just that this suggestion seems to make marines become chain-weapon gods. |
Accuracy is of no regard to this HMG argument, volume of fire would just annihilate everything that crossed the line, regardless of whether you've got people with aimbots, or just people who spray without actually aiming, it's not accurate fire that kills in most cases, it's the volume of it. One person spraying the HMG sauce over that corridor might wing a few, and kill one, but 4 of them would wing everything, then probably kill anything that was thinking about running.
| QUOTE (Al Kaholic) |
| does your reserve ammunition suddenly become belt-fed? |
For the unbalance that this might cause, the idea of a belt-fed weapon might be a good idea for the future, a bigger clip, and a longer reload time wouldn't be such an infeasible idea for an HA to use, given the fact of their armour being powered and all, much in the same way as the 40K Heavy Bolter is used. It could be a movable upgrade for a heavy, or as a stationary emplacement for normal marines. There would need to be a cap for the chain guns of course, to stop the heavy trains from being chain-gun wielding massacre making squads...
1 big question, does the increased rate of fire continue in addition to the other perks?
No. In fact, if it's feasible, reserve ammo may fire at a lower ROF.
Hmmm. I'm kind of split on this suggestion... on one hand , I like the onos-catching power of catpacks (to let HAs free their teammate easier) , and I think this suggestion would restrict the catpack's role to hive room storming. On the other hand , it would be more useful and much better at it. It would prevent stalemates where an unskilled marine team drowning in res can't finish the only hive because of the reswhoring aliens' resistance (the marine team should win imho , better be unskilled than selfish)
I'd like it to keep the running speed boost , and not have a lower RoF. 5 res catpacks shouldn't be spammed too much... they'd be better used for surgical strikes (ie after a shotgun marine fired its last shot against a fade or hive , catpack him to kill it)
I'd like it to keep the running speed boost , and not have a lower RoF. 5 res catpacks shouldn't be spammed too much... they'd be better used for surgical strikes (ie after a shotgun marine fired its last shot against a fade or hive , catpack him to kill it)
One problem i could find in ns is, SGs + cat packs...
That is a very fast and dead hive.
That is a very fast and dead hive.
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