Detectability and enforcement is the issue. Making something illegal doesn't do very much if there is no way to prove or detect that they are using a macro.

That doesnt stop us from trying to enforce things such as ESP. I still dont see the issue.

ESP does things outside the realm of the game's possibilities, macros and script workarounds and turbofire mouse1s do not. It is a tad easier to prove that someone is using a wallhack/esp, than that someone shot their pistol so fast they are obviously using a macro.

Of course you should try and follow the rules, I am merely being realistic about the enforcement and likelyhood that the rules are followed.

The possibility of cheating yourself around a block doesnt justify allowing it.

Good post mate, almost made me cry from laughing so much.

mp_blockscripts 1 should be for pub servers where the admins believe scripts play the game for other people & as such are unfair.
mp_blockscripts 0 should be for everyone else with a clue.

Minstrel makes a good point. You can buy "gaming keyboards" which allow you to execute many commands from one keypress. How are these any different from using in game aliases available to everyone or macro programs available to significantly fewer people due to their obscurity & difficulty of use?

I also like the hypocrisy espoused by the championing of mp_blockscripts 1 in conjunction with mp_consistency 0 by some leagues/tournaments.

Because a pistol script is the devil, while pink skulks are just cute.

Can you actually name a league, that uses mp_bs 1 but not mp_const 1.

An empty debate?

You mean to tell me that scripting has little to no effect on competitve play, and that scripting has no effect on the outcome of matches? Would you consider, for example, scripts that are exploitive (ie wiggle walk script) be allowed in every match, even if the map is designed to be balanced with marines moving at a gameplay speed and not the exploitive speed? (Note, I dont want to get into a debate here concerning what scripts ARE and ARE NOT exploitive, perhaps another thread... another discussion, but for the sake of arguement here I am using the wiggle walk script AS an exploitive one).

What effect does bs_1 have on competitive gameplay? What do you lose when you cant script on bs_0 matches? What can be said from the point of view of players who compete without scripts?

The majority of players who are good with scripts are still pretty frigging good without scripts. I don't script for any of my vital game functions, and thus I generally knowtice no difference whatsoever between BS_1 and BS_0 servers, but I imagine the most destructive aspect of a BS_1 server for players who script (increasing exponentially with the ammount of game functions they have done by scripts) would be just having to get used to everything binded differently then normal.

Mp_bs 1 is hardly an issue of pistol scripts, it is an issue of bunnyhopping with space or mwheel. As you have stated, scripts neither makes or breaks a player, but it still effects their play.

I see no need to force a player to use mwheel instead of space. In my mind, that is all bs does.

I would love to see someone explain to me how mwheel is different than a 3jump script.



It is worth nothing that BS still remains an issue in international competitive play.

Wigglewalk script, which is more abusive then pistol scripts by a long shot, and is quite possible to do without _special still.

And almost all clanners (that I know of) don't use it.

I'm not sure about that. The biggest problem with it is that you cannot do anything else but move forward while it's being used. Then again, you could always use a macro program to do it for you, but that's cheating ^____^

Because scripts are the "in" thing to blame for losing at the moment, and therefore that variable makes people think they lost because they were out played?

It's hardly abusive when marines can sustain equal speed with basic glide jumping/wall strafing movement.

Adrenaline conservation/blink-swipe script, pancake, wiggle, rate scripts, fast reload cancel, fast walk, showevents.

Huh?

blink-swipe scripts? energy conservation scripts? fast walk? reload cancel? WTH are you smoking?

Wiggle is the only one out of the list that people might use. Nobody uses the rest of those scripts. I'm not even sure what an energy conservation script would LOOK like. Anyone have an idea? Probably not because nobody uses one! I doubt one that works has ever been written.

alias a1 "+attack;wait;-attack;wait"
Is what an energy conservation script looks like. It is generally bound to mouse1 when selecting blink, mustang, myself and some other folks use it. Blink swipe is generally something like bind space so when it is held down blink is selected and when space is released swipe is selected, often used in conjunction with energy conservation script.

Fast walk is what the name suggests, would rather not spread it around. Reload cancel is just something along the lines of switching to knife then back to lmg with 1 key with some stopsounds thrown in to get rid of the unnecessary weapon change noises.

Keep dreaming that no one uses scripts like this if you like.

Quoted for truth and the same question applies. Why is it still here?

Adren cons is done by many such as Duo by quick weapon switching. I personally don't use it and have little problem with conservation.

blink-swipe sucks, it hinders you more than it helps.

I've never seen a pancake scripter, but I imagine it'd hinder you in the middle of playing the same as other scripts like that. The fact that noone uses it could mean something.

wiggle locks your controls while using it. Go ahead, get that extra tiny bit of speed. Skulks will love you for it.

rate scripts? lol. illegal in cal anyway.

fast reload cancel? I can cancel manually just as fast. non-issue.

fast walk seems to be the same thing as wiggle.

Showevents? What exactly is that?

Indeed. Fast walk means you move faster then walking speed perfectly silently (as if you were walking). I can do this for short periods manually, but I don't see how a script is needed for it as the actions involved are fairly articulate, and most likely be hard to get a script to do for you well...

The point of views of those who use BS and those who do not are as seperate as the contintents the players from groups reside on.

Unfortunately, international competition has always had its hiccups due to server latency. I have experienced this first hand. (sYn, vs European teams)

If one group wants to think they are better than the other, then they are entitled to. There are great players on American side, just as there are great players on the European side.

Since there really is no competition anymore (as USA team fails to field an adequate roster to represent the USA) It really doesn't matter if the europeans don't use scripts, as they have no affect on their gameplay. When I say the Europeans, I mean those teams that strictly play in European leagues. The euro clans in CAL clearly would be entitled to use scripts.

The only real way to see if europeans were better than the americans and vice-versa would be to play at a LAN competition, similar to that of the CPL.

NS is not significant enough to make it to any major competition for money. So both teams would have to make it to a mutual location with an adequate network (and their own equipment) on their own dime with no chance of getting any prize money from a sponsor. They could of course place a bet, but who has the money to do that?

Since it is unreasonable for both teams to do that. This debate is empty, and the point is moot.

Thanks

bind mwheel +attack is your energy conservation script... not a big deal

blink swipe scripts aren't preferred by a lot of good fades

reload cancel... you don't need a script to do this


In fact, you don't need a script to do any of these, just grab a macro.

The reason bs_1 is stupid is because of macros. There is no way to detect someone who uses a macro, and the macro isn't exactly "3rd party software" if it's a driver option built into your mouse or keyboard. How can you ban someone for that? Impossible to catch someone using a macro.

All methods of fixing exploits will tend to lead down this path when you don't have access to the source code.

Those who cannot adapt or choose not to adapt will not play.

I don't recall CAL having banning scripting in general, just certain scripts.

Since Europeans use BS_1 and Americans use BS 0 would it not be logical to conclude that the groups for comparison have in an international basis? If not I would be open to an alternative explanation

Your "skill" arguement is only relevant between continents with few exceptions.

Those exceptions are not the same as taking the best from both groups and comparing them.

We can never really tell if scripting provides that much of an advantage, because both sides either use scripts, or do not. NA teams generally use scripts, Euro teams do not use scripts. There really isn't an NA team that doesn't use scripts, and all the Euro teams due to restriction do not use scripts.

My international debate is still relevant, since those are the two MAIN groups who either use scripts or do not due to league rules.