I really, really dislike the way the current armor works. Right now, armor has a flat rate of absorbsion, taking 70% of damage onto itself and allowing 30% through, with one point of armor being able to take 2 damage. This is true whether you have armor0, or armor3.

What this means is that, medpacks have very little effect until the armor is gone, and at that point, medding is everything because you have no armor to protect you. For example, a marine with armor one gets bitten once. He will now have 77 health and 18 armor left. He will die in two more bites. If he recieves a medpack at this point, he will STILL die in 2 more bites, making it a waste to med him.

What I propose will make marine armor lasts longer. In other words, it will make IMMEDIATE welding after taking damage less critical, like it is now. Marines will have a larger buffer zone to weld each other. However, medding becomes a bit more important especially early on because armor now absorbs less damage! One armor will still be worth 2 damage.

New armor system:

==Armor0==
AP (armor points): 50
Absorbsion rate: 30% (This means 70% of damage will go through to health)

==Armor1==
AP: 70
Absorbsion rate: 40%

==Armor2==
AP: 90
Absorbsion rate: 50%

==Armor3==
AP: 110
Absorbsion rate: 60%

*Armor0 analysis*

Without medding
After attack number X-------By Skulk-------By Fade
After attack number 1-------48/39-----------44/38
After attack number 2-------0/28------------0/26

So, it'd still take 2 bites to kill an a0 marine, like usual.

With meds
(Medded?) Attack X-------By Skulk-------By Fade
(No meds) Attack 1-------48/39-----------44/38
(Got med) Attack 2-------45/28-----------38/26
(Got med) Attack 3-------43/16-----------32/14
(Got med) Attack 4-------40/5-------------26/2
(Got med) Attack 5-------25/0-------------0/0
(Got med) Attack 6--------0/0

With the current system, the comm would have to drop 2 meds after the second bite on the marine in order to keep the marine from dying to one bite. With the proposed system, the comm would only need to start dropping two meds for each bite after the fifth bite!

*Armor1 analysis*

Without medding
After attack number X-------By Skulk-------By Fade
After attack number 1-------55/55-----------52/54
After attack number 2-------10/40-----------4/38
After attack number 3-------0/25-------------0/22

Armor one would still grant an extra bite, like it does now, but a parasite could kill a marine after 2 fade swipes.

With meds
(Medded?) Attack X-------By Skulk-------By Fade
(No meds) Attack 1-------55/55-----------52/54
(Got med) Attack 2-------55/40-----------52/38
(Got med) Attack 3-------55/25-----------52/22
(Got med) Attack 4-------55/10-----------52/6
(Got med) Attack 5-------45/0-------------32/0
(Got med) Attack 6-------20/0-------------2/0
(Got med) Attack 7-------0/0---------------0/0

A parasite could again mean killing the marine one swipe earlier. Note that if a comm ISN'T on his toes with the medding after each attack, a second or two inside a spore cloud will kill the marine.

*Armor2 analysis*

Without medding
After attack number X-------By Skulk-------By Fade
After attack number 1-------63/71-----------60/70
After attack number 2-------25/52-----------20/50
After attack number 3-------0/34-------------0/30


With meds
(Medded?) Attack X-------By Skulk-------By Fade
(No meds) Attack 1-------63/71-----------60/70
(Got med) Attack 2-------63/52-----------60/50
(Got med) Attack 3-------63/34-----------60/30
(Got med) Attack 4-------63/15-----------60/10
(Got med) Attack 5-------55/0-------------40/0
(Got med) Attack 6-------25/0-------------10/0
(Got med) Attack 7-------0/0---------------0/0

Armor2 doesn't help much here, but it does allow some more room for error than armor1 (i.e, sporing, parasiting)

*Armor3 analysis*

Without medding
After attack number X-------By Skulk-------By Fade
After attack number 1-------70/88-----------68/86
After attack number 2-------40/65-----------36/62
After attack number 3-------10/43------------4/38
After attack number 4-------0/20-------------0/14

4 attacks required to kill the marine, just like usual.

With meds
(Medded?) Attack X-------By Skulk-------By Fade
(No meds) Attack 1-------70/88-----------68/86
(No meds) Attack 2-------40/65-----------36/62
(Got med) Attack 3-------60/43-----------54/38
(No meds) Attack 4-------30/20-----------22/14
(Got med) Attack 5-------45/0-------------20/0
(Got med) Attack 6-------20/0-------------0/0
(Got med) Attack 7-------0/0---------------0/0

The Fade could kill by the 6th hit here, but the comm spent 3 less meds this time. If the comm spends 2 meds instead of one, he could keep his marines alive through attack 7, and then he'd still have saved 4 res. If he really wanted his rines alive, he can spend that 4 res he saved on 2 meds and keep his marines alive through attack number 8.

So, in short, the proposed armor system would allow for the same number of bites/swipes to down marines who are unmedded, and greated extend the lifetime of a marine if medded. A marine's armor will now last, on average, 5 bites before running out, instead the 2 bites it serves now before being worn down to basically nothing. This will allow extra time for welding, not to mention save quite a bit of res on medpacks if he wants to keep marines alive longer but there isn't much welding going on for whatever reason. The armor absorbing less will also decrease spore effectiveness slightly.

That's an insane amount of statistics tou measured, Church.

This looks well thought out, and it even makes sense.

/me votes yes.

Great idea, this will help against the overpowering sensory

i like this idea because i always hate taking the slightest bit of damage (aka parasite at armor 1)

The buff seems small enough to me, and if it can get people to stop bitching about sensory being overpowered then I say yes.

I spent an hour working on this thread, calculating the numbers after each hit. I was considering doing the calculations for Onos as well, but I decided not ot since I forgot whether Onos do 90 or 95 per Gore.

Glad people like it so far. Combined with my welder as an upgrade idea, marines would be able ot combat sensory much better.

would upping the armor absorb rate by 5% make it so armor2 take 4 bites?

Probably, but I don't think it's needed.

wouldnt this way overpower resupply in combat?

In combat, resupply kicks in every 4 seconds I believe? If you can't land 2 bites in 4 seconds, you deserve to lose.

even though I will mis my para focusown armor1 rine strat this will be somewhat usefull for rines.

Actually, after one focus bite at a1, you'd only need to parasite the marine TWICE to kill him, as opposed to the 4 times right now.

Damn the mods for moving my suggestions to this subforum! nobody reads this one!

I like !

This is in a way similar to alien's innate regeneration - taking the slightest bit of armour damage won't be as damaging anymore.

(ignore my horrible comparison)


I like it.

Isn't this exactly like 2.0x and earlier versions had it? The AP amount is definitely the same.

This sounds really promising. It would definitely help marines a little more.

Wait, did you say somewhere that Focus would be raised or something?
I thought the purpose of Focus was to get rid of people with Armor0, besides do more damage in more time.

It gets my vote

You know church, I betcha a lot more people would read about your idea if you'd ditch the GIANT PAGE WIDENING SIG, cos it makes the entire thread mildly frustrating to read.

I don't know about that... One of the devs might jump in and give a brilliant reason, and everyone will then be like "ooohh... well, okay then, this idea wasnt so good I guess".
Like when people were all for implementing view turning for skulk wallwalking, the devs notified us of the fact that because it was the HL engine, it would literally turn on every surface, like even if its just a new poly of the same wall.

It sounds neat... what would it do to HA though? and wouldn't it overpower resupply JPs in combat? as they acctually ARE hard to land 3 bites on in 4 seconds.

HA stays the same it is now.

Aliens are still overpowered in combat anyways, but the answer is as it has always been: Focus

Okay! Mr church! i want to see

1)welder upgrade (WELDERS FOR EVERYONE!! WELDERS = TEAMWORJK!!!
2) a focus bite WILL NOT TAKE DOWN A ARMOR0 marine!! but a focus bite and finishing him off with parasite is okay

This is identical to 2.xx, which is a good thing. The reason it was changed, as far as I know, was because dieing with armor was thought of as "sloppy" looking. It was indefinatly better before, made the comm actually do something important without stressing him too much, (I.E. med them as they take damage, not wait for their armor to go then MED LIKE CRAZY,) and made rines with a proper comm stronger yet weaker without good comm support. A single parasite, gone unmeded, would take away the armor 1 advantage vs a fade, and an onos would kill a marine in 2 hits even with armor one. With the amount of alien power gained, this is the type of fix that's needed. Rines still lose the long fight in any area, but it gives them more staying power to fight hard and fast right then.

Very good church. I like this idea, but I would miss having armor 2 making it 4 bite kills for skulks w/ full armor and health.

I really like this idea... Two thumbs up and a foot.

Yeah, I hope everyone reads my Welder upgrade idea as well.

As for focus, it needs to be able to take down a0 marines or it is kind of worthless. however, think about it this way: With the new a1, you can get bit by focus skulk, get 2 meds, and survive another focus bite! Right now, the ONLY way you can survive 2 focus bites is with armor3!

okay we got it church! now implement the new armor system!! GO GO GO!! (im a focus hater)

I'm not a big fan of focus either, but I don't make the decisions.

I just hope lots of people read this thread.

You die in 2 focus bites with armour 1, 2 and 3.

This was indeed the armour system used in the past, but was changed, i believe, to make marines less like tanks as getting meds made them last way too long for an average skulk to kill. I remember the 1.0x days where dealing with a commander-supported armour marine drove me crazy. I landed 5 bites on the marines and he knifed me...and that happened more than once.

This could work, 1, to help marines survive focus IF they get medded, and 2, makes co a tad more balanced as they can take more damage.

Maybe the armour can last 1-2 bites more with med, but not 3-4 please. That was, and is still ridiculous.

Marines could use a bit of help right now, and this is a good form of help. Making it harder for aliens to wear down marine armor is key in letting them survive more than one encounter.

buyt at this point church its hard for aliens to survie any encounter let alone two + people

if sulks have a team rines have a team rines still seam to come off on top


i dont know it could be me but i think it has some thing to do with all the bullets they fill the aliens with

why not instead of getting a whole revision to the system why not jsut raise armor one by 10 points and deduct 5 points of armor 2

me i sujest no change thats my vote, not just yet, let things pan out a little while longer

na i still gotta disagree with your total revision of the armor system

cat and mouse seams to be the only meathod that works for me and even then i only own ever fourth time

Look, it is fact that right now (for whatever reasons; marines haven't adapted, whatever) aliens are winning a lot MORE right now. I can only suggest that you PRACTICE if you are getting owned that much. It is very, very easy for skulks with upgrade to kill marines right now. I suggest you watch some demos of clan matches (Im not sure if marines have won any in 3.0f yet) if you want to see what the pros do.

Right now it seems that a skulk with upgrade is definitely better than a vanilla marine (due to armor = 0 past the first fight for the most part). This "new" armor system, helping marine armor last longer, will help make one marine to be = to one skulk.

And it's sKulk...not sulk. Spell check!

y are you using 1.x originated armor values

Because it's better.

na i disagree church go play on telstra GA

*thumbs up*

Although I agree that a2 and a3 need a boost, (when was the last time you saw a2 before w3 except in a HA rush?) but I don't think this is the way to go about it.

It may balance OK in a public situation, as the lack of an efficient comm will still mean marines die with 2 or 3 bites regardless of armour. However with a comm who can get to med calls fast and land packs accurately, the marines would become akin to tanks. (A comparason that's already been drawn in this thread.)

SC is not over-powered, and even if it was, boosting the entire marine techtree /armour system is a rather drastic solution. Multiple obs, scan frequently, rush MT, hive lockdowns. Elec if necessary. See other threads.

6 bites to kill an assisted armour1!

Edit: ah, med pack. (See Church's post below)

--

Summary: Interesting idea, a2/3 do need boosting, but is this the right way to do it...

Armor0 = 150 HP - 2 Bites or 1 Bite + 8 Parasites
Armor1 = 190 HP - 3 Bites or 2 Bites + 4 Parasites
Armor2 = 230 HP - 4 Bites or 3 Bites + 1 Parasites
Armor3 = 270 HP - 4 Bites or 3 Bites + 5 Parasites

If your team knows how to parasite, then A2 isn't very good. One second in a spore cloud will put you down to 3 bites. Still, it does technically give you another bite. I always try to para at least once while I'm rushing a marine.

I allways go a1 w1-2-3 (a2-a3 if we have enough res or are going jetpacks.)

i arnt fussed any more ill adapt : )