Marine RFK has been the object of dispute for some time since after it was implimented. It changes the alien playing style in some ways greatly (for example, skulks cant rush anymore in the beginning of the rounds to the marine spawn without only helping marines.. I think we all liked that about NS ) and some not so greatly.

I'd really like to bring some aspects back from the past versions, such as the beginning game alien rushes, but keep the overall goal of RFK in the game, which was to lower end game standoffs, basically make the team thats winning have a landslide win at the end. I at least know that was one of the reasons. The other is just some crap about other players making a difference even though they arent the commander or gorge... right.

Anyways, with researchable RFK, the game is altered in only positive manners, a couple of them being:
-Beginning alien rush happens once again.
-Skulks can play more suicidal in early game without worrying about helping the enemy team.
-The game takes more focus on RTs once again instead of just relying on one good player.

Hopefully RFK could be gained by the .. "a bit more than half way" mark.

Opinions?

Nanite Recirculation
Protolab upgrade
Cost: 20-30 Res
Time to research: 30-60 seconds

Effect: Grants R4K for the marines

Sounds good to me.

Sounds good, maybe make it 20 res .

It's not a bad idea. It would help the marines late game, when they need to fight against lots of higher life forms. You may have to decrease alien RFK to 1 res to compensate for the imbalance this would cause.

the earlygame is balanced on that fact that marines gain rfk.

so, no.

edit:

we can see if it works out.. it looks like it will from what i see now at least

what is RFK? I've been playing NS for some time but i have never heard that acronym before.

This is not a bad idea at all.

It could even be a new rush, mabye replacing the Armor 1 tech! (Since marines would want their res for kills and all).

I'd research it at an obs or Protolab, just because they have slots available for it to be placed in? :/

and RFK is taken out completly for aliens right? other wise its just ****

although i hated r4k for the marines, i have to admit it's pretty even right now, especially with the alien buff in this latest version 3.0f, i think we should put this off until later.

it's a good idea, but should wait for until the marines receive some buffs before we nerf them some more. maybe when they get the mythical flamethrower

Good idea. It makes sense too. How would the comm get res from kills without some fancy tech. But make it early so that the comm has to make choices early on. Armor or RFK. I don't think aliens would need balancing if RFK was expensive enough and early enough for marines to get (so it would only off-set the marines a little bit). Perhaps an Armoury upgrade? The bullets recycle or something?

Sounds rather bad.

Rines have a concentrated res pool, which actually gives more possibilities.
Now with even RFK, they would gain res so fast, not imaginable how fast they would overrun the map. If they should get RFK, than their general res flow
should be slowed down significantely.

Over the course of an average game, marines get around 100 res in r4k at most. That is nothing compared to what they get from resource towers. Where do those 100 res go? Medpacks and ammo packs. Marines have upkeep costs. Aliens don't. Marines need more res to survive. Boost the res maries get if r4k is removed.

Oh, and if it's researchable from the Protolab, I guarantee you, no competent commander would ever bother until everything else, including Hand grenades, are researched, most likely because by the time the game is over, the marines probably wouldn't have earned back the 30 res.

Actually some comms are wasting res by even dropping medpacks in
their base altough the armslab can heal rines, and also, if these are standart rines
"kill" in console brings them out fresh, new, and unparasited.

Sure rines cost their upkeeps, but so do aliens. The gorge form for example.
Since there is no more "permagorging" possible, thanks to the **** alien res system. The gorge does not profit from RFK. So every Hive, RT, or even Chamber
cost 10 res extra and morphing time.
And everytime a player wants to be something else, he has to spend a lot his barely rising resources.

Only upkeep aliens have is gestating into gorge. That's it. Nothing else. I spend over 100 res on med packs every game I comm, and then there's the ammo too. I personally don't like the alien r4k system much. The res r4k should be shared equally amongst the team, so gorges can benefit too, but this thread isn't about allien r4k.

Seriously, r4k is best eliminated from NS. That way all the people who like enploying suicidal strats can be happy, and not worry about giving the other team res.

`Putting it it in proto would make it way to late game (despite the fact that you should have AA at 5min max) Put it in Obs! Weak building and destorying it would lose the rfk until new one is up! Also that nanite recycle or what was it would go fine with observatorys feeling.

Marines already get rfk, you doofus. Marines *need* to spend that much. If you were any good at all, you'd know that.

Have to agree with the first post. Any upsets in the balance of res that this change might cause can be easily tweaked. Moving marine rfk to an upgrade option would greatly enhance play, maybe for aliens too? Although where it could be put for aliens I have no idea.

Because you spent it?

If marines have such an upkeep (Read: Deploying what can be given from an armoury on the field) then why not just make a random, 1/7 chance to generate an extra res from a marine res tower every tick?

Or, we can do what I want, and just remove r4k and make resource towers give out more res without it being random (the 1/7 thing for example) for BOTH sides.

That makes no sense. Why boost up res for both sides after removing RFK?

ok church help me out here, say for exsample theres two rez nodes at the middle of a gountlet, there not 20 meters away and three bends inbetween, ok rines cost you can fill me in soon, so say its a 6vs6 game, a lone ninja rine runs in his buddys are waiting at the pg at spawn so you build a pg all riens come thro with shoties so thats 5 rines five shoties, keeping tabs here say you got two ips, and no need to defend spawn, so start working it out no at ths rez node yu build the new rez node a tf a armory and 4 turrents for now so you keeping tabs,

ok aliens they need 3 chambers at main hive 30 rez plus 20 for the two gorgies, the two goriges cant get to the center rez node so they go sulks, ok at the center of hte map we got a fade to combat the shoties 100 rez, say a sulk temps for he node thats another 25, and goes sulk again so we got two late sulks still back at hive, cos we dont have pgs a combat ready sulk and a combat ready fade standing at thsi node, ok, but you already have a armory and a pg and turrets and can likely seige our node very soon so were on the offencive as well as on the defencive incase our offencive rush fails, so the last two sulks with rez must gorge
so thats ether 4 oc or 2 ocs and 2 chambers what ever its another 60 rez

so the aliens have spent 185 rez

how much rez have you spent on two ip's, two armorys, a arms lab and two pg's a rez node and 5 shot guns, a tf and 5 trurrets

i mean i am pritty shore, the rfk rines get will cover there med packs and ammo i mean heck your seige guns will be coming soon and no matter how many extra thigns and upgrade you can possible thro i there i dont think your nears to spending as much rez as we just did

then you want to talk about up keep, what if we lose a oc or the node or god for bid that whole area get seiged how much of a set back is that for aliens come pared to if we wipe your area

i mean you jsut carelessly droped another 5 more shot guns at rine start for what 5 rez a pop and our fade just died, i mean it culd be ages before we get another fade and he cost two tiems as much as the five shoties you jsut droepd at spawn

so tell me seriously church do you really think this is a good idea

Ok, my eyes hurt from reading that. Please, learn how to spell. This is nit an insult, this is me telling you I have trouble reading your questions and I was tempted not to respond.

Ok. First of all, no many how many IPs you have, you always, always need some form of defense for spawn unless you want to lose, even if it is as basic as a pack of mines around the observatory, for example.

Ok, now let's see...2 IPs at the start (20 each, 40 total) + Observatory (20 I think) + armory (10) + Tfac (10) + 4 Turrets (10 each, 40 total) + Phase tech research (15) + 2 phase gates (15 each, 30 total) + shotguns (one for each marines minus commander at 10 each, so 50 total) = 215 res. This, of course is without dropping *anything* else, not EVEN the res node at the location. No medpacks, no ammo packs. Of course it takes TIME to research phase tech. Realistically the phase gate wouldn't up until 1:30 or 2 minutes even if you rushed phase tech.

Now, marines start out with 100 res, while aliens start out with 150 in a 6v6. Please...tell me exactly where marines are getting the resources to drop all of this? And you say seiges are coming soon too! Wow! Remember, this is 215 res without even dropping ONE res node. And not to mention no arms lab either. No upgrading armory, no upgrades besides phase tech.

Not to mention, that this marines marines have poured at least 65 res into ONE area, managing to secure ONE res node...at the cost of what? The aliens, meanwhile, manage to cap 3 nodes near their hive and the building hive. Marines won't have get 215 res with one res tower until 5 minutes into the game. At 5 minutes, Fades have already begun terrorizing marines, which, of course, with no arms lab, are dying like flies, and at 5 minutes, the hive is probably 1/3 to 1/2 done.

Marines need all the r4k they can get just to keep up with the meds. either that, or like I said, remove r4k, and give a higher res flow.

The reason r4k was added int he first place was because the devs wanted the game to speed up. Well, wecan achieve the same effect by removing r4k, and just boosting the rate at which res comes in. This means perma-gorging is no longer discouraged, and you also don't have to worry about dying and giving res to the other team.

Again, nobody, and I mean NOBODY, will be stupid enough to research this as an upgrade.

arghh ok so now were caping two other nodes and puting up a second hive so thats another 100 rez gone

the point is the burn is even, the devs wouldnt of take out alien up grade cost if it wasnt

weather aliens are doing this or rines are doing this were all going to need that extra juice

now i think rines need there r4k as do aliens, i dont belive rines should have to up grade it

but i do belive that r4k should stay pritty, much its like training a dog you teach a dog to sit, if it sits what do you do give him a treat or do you tell him to drop and then start training him to drop, cos hey if he does drop he prolly wont follow your next order cos he doesnt see any benafit, then that dog will go steal your computer and learn how to play cs, why cos hes getting rewarded when he does what hes mant to do and thats consume the map and take out his enamy

also no one said any thing about a obs, 3 turrets will do the job so will 3 shot guns which i though cost five rez not ten, my bad

ta for the prices tho it really does show how hard the devs have worked to achive balance

I think it is in for one reason mainly... So you can come back and drop another RT if you lose your only RT. Possible yes... Probable no... but its there...

The game used to give you res ver, very slowly even if you had 0 RTs. Bring that back and you'd have no problems.

yes your right curch it did and this course a substantial increase in boring end games, with R4K it draws the person out into the wood work

Aliens already got a huge boost in current patch, no logical resioin to hurt the marines early game more.

Right now marines have a good early game, aleins have a ok early game. marines have an Okay mid game, aliens have a Very good mid game. And finaly Marines have a increadable bad late game, while aliens have a the bringers of Doom late game..

Marine games are usualy only won in the early game, if it goes to mid game, marines have a very low chance of winning.

Basicly the marines get 1/3 of the game in thier favor while the aliens get 2/3rds of the game in thier favor..geee it looks more like the aliens need a mid game nerf.

(not realy though, i like the alien mid and end game, just marines need a generalized buff)

no way it takes aliens ages to walk into a rine base, they burn so much rez it take time to box them in and then kill and clear them

rine on the other hand, just blow a hole strait thro the hive with a 20 mill cannon and say good night as they stand were the sulks spawn and go boom shuckalucka

REAlLY NOW?

no really...
it takes 1 fade aprox 20 seconds or less to get into marine start, and if no one is there, they can easily take out the AA. There goes alot of tech the marines. the AA is like the 2nd hive for marines.

20 million cannons, that would cost 300 million rez. Unless you playing a game with cheats thats not gonna happen.

Seeing more than 3-4 seige cannons is rare, it also take the aliens being stupid and not patroling to allow them to get a ninja phase up.

a 20 mill cannon means a 20mm cannon, not 20 million cannons.

I think Rfk should be upgraded as marines. It makes more sense logic wise and also helps out alien early game. The only thing I would change is putting it on the Observatory. This would allow the marines to get it ~3 minutes into the game, which is enough time for skulks to be suicidal.

Then again, after 3 minutes skulks should have upgrades and there should be fades so skulks wouldnt be in combat...

on second thought: Scrap RFK.

all i am saying is if that nija pg goes up riens beacon alien go sweet head to spawn to find there hive drop to half health in the time it take them to relise there no one at spawn, i have seen the whole alien team hit rine start in all different life forms and rien **** alien start at the same time, guess what team ablitirated which

to be quite honust, all the aliens couldnt fit to kill the key structures they needed

then to have a gorgie drop a hive after one goes down POD for two seconds, then have com scan for the ninjas balm blam hive went down again to have com beacon and a heavy train land on to of us

com gets thrown out of chair but its to late were being swallowed whole

it was a intence game rine out skilled us and stayed one step ahead of us, but it doesnt denie the fact, a rine ninjaed past our defences built a pg a heavey train beaconed then used pg to take the hive down to half health half heath in two seconds onos clearing the ips and the cc didnt help fades on the tf and gorgie wanting so badly to drop chambers and build them before the beacon, it didnt happen they beaconed be fore gorige structures were up, and before hte well hidden tucked away in the courner obs with the ono bashing it didnt help two seconds worth of POD is about 25% of a onos health on to have a ha droped on his head

i am sorry but they didnt bother about none of our structures, but we had to kill theres jsut to get to the cc

both attacks were great and seriously crazy, but rines won

I want his pills ^^

*sigh*

I don't have the time like I used to to argue why RFK is a bad thing. Just search some of my old stuff and you'll find the many reasons why I dislike it.

After digging through the old archives (oh such fun!), I discovered my old official (x5 endorsed) stance on RFK.

RFK needs to go for marines, simple as that. It makes zero sense.

RFK needs to go for the Gorge <UNLESS> it is a healspray kill. You deserve some reward for a healspray kill.

RFK should stay for all the other aliens as they are all close combat aliens, HOWEVER, you should only get ONE point per marine, no matter the equipment.