I've taken to haunting the NSA classic server now, and I've been doing Armor 3 rushes.

Why?

It's just that I've noticed that people start gestating to fade around 4:30, and finished and are ready to go at about the 5 minute mark. Armor 3 lets marines take three hits before dying, instead of the two that armor 1 and 2 provide.

Get an IP, armory, and arms lab respectively and rush A1 30 seconds in the game. It'll be done at 1:30, where you then rush A2. Then at 3 minutes into the game, you'll rush A3. It'll be done at the five minute mark.

So, why rush A3? Longevity. A1 is an obvious first upgrade, but if you go to A2, it'll take four hits to kill a marine (unless they para first), and in tight corridors with fast action, not many people will parasite. You increase the longevity of your marines using less medpacks.

When fades are usually done baking in the oven, you'll have armor 3 ready to go and shotguns too. I figure that the shotguns will provide enough firepower to ward off fades while welders can keep your armor up. And after the 5 minute mark, just another minute gets you W1.

Besides, researching Weapons 1 doesn't do much to skulks, in fact, you can argue it's actually harder to kill skulks with weapons 1 on the LMG due to the slightly higher spread.

What do you guys think?

ive found shotties pretty useless with w0

u could try squeezing w1 in there, propably after a1. dunno.

No. Armor rushes wont work with a1 in middle of it failing everything. ALl you need this to work is 3-5 rts

i might try it,

but with level 0 weapons u wont be able to kill a fade with skill, even with shotguns (unless your marines get lucky)

although i agree a3 combined with welders could be very powerful, it will definatly make it extremly hard for skulks to kill your marines.

the only problem i see with your strategy is your sacrificing phase gates, which also means hive locations, this is bad

and also you would have to trust your marines had some sense and actually weld each other...

personally (sorry to go off topic slightly) I still dont think you can beat the good old 2 hive lockdown in public servers.

IP -> Armoury -> obs -> phase tech, rush into both enpty hives, getting rts along the way, secure the hive with a pg next to the RT, TF, turrets and electrify.

Once you control both hives you can just sit on them and upgrade at your liesure. pretty much **** all aliens can do about it.

but as i said, ill give it a go next time i comm.

Two hive lockdowns...work against a nub team. If you could do a two hive lock, you could probably win the game with a shotty rush.

A0 = 2 swipes
A1 = 3 swipes
A2 = 3 swipes
A3 = 4 swipes

I think anything after A1 vs fades is a usless upgrade compared to W1/2/3. Why spend 70 res to survive an extra swipe when you can drop welders, meds and kill the fades with weapons tech by shooting them rather than boring them to death.

I'd rather be running around with a weapon upgrade from the start. That way I can kill incoming skulks so much easier.

I've seen games where armour has been rushed, but without welders a fade can simply hit and run. Trying to kill a 2 hive fade with bare basic weapons is not pretty. Yes, it can be done, as all things can, but its not a fun experience.

what the hell?? A3 first?

This is just all an assumption that the other team is 'nub' and in pubs it's not too uncommon.

Against a good team you're going to succumb to the might of 2 hive aliens or 1-hive fades if you don't tech weapons first.

this start would work on crummy teams, only problem is that 100's of other strats work on crummy teams to so why pick this one?

If it doesn't work agaisnt good teams or isn't outragously funny or hard. then I personally don't comm it.

same here. sure they'll live longer but that's assuming they remember to weld each other which most pubbies seem to forget.
even skulks are hard to kill with shotgun w0 - it takes to hits usually : /

the biggest threat is the Lork that will kill you. One good lerk and you are screwed you gotta say weld weld all the time plus feed em with meds...

Actualy you can do a 6-7min 3/3 rush with HMGs if you do it right. get a1 first, then w1, drop another arms lab, get a2, and w2. adv armory. save for a3 w3, and get em. when the armory finishes upgrading, start dropping hmgs, and a few welders. about 30 seconds after the team is loaded up and moving out, a3w3 should be done.

Works well in maps where marines are a short distance from 2 hives, like tanith and eclipse
btw
no obs

Btw u need 7rts

I hated your sig rapier7 I think you should change it instead. And I can't believe that flayra's only 16 years old. You should wish him a good luck for he and his new found-company.

Back on topic, I rely on rushing dmg lvl 3. It's way much better and I got good results with it.

Why does it amuse you TOmekki? Or do aliens die faster to you if you're wearing armour 3?

Actually, gangsta, skulks still take the same amount of bullets to kill with W1. Going from W0 to W1 doesn't matter.

just to add, more wep lvl's means the lmg(/hmg) x-hair shakes a little more. so, also in this viewpoint, w1 actually hurts early game (though it is quite mandatory, despite all these experimental armor rush - pubstrats).

In b6, w1 will make you able to kill a skulk in 9 instead of 10 bullets.

really? what...so ur telling me w1 - w2 would be nothing now? or would it be 10 bullets then 9 then 8 then 7?

*plug*
yet another damage calculator

Well if we're going for sheer pedantry, then you're right about the shooting, but at the same time its kind of hard to get to w2 without taking w1, intellegis?


Edit - Furthermore, rushing armour 3 puts you further and further away from having decent weaponry in the midgame. I don't agree with rushing weaps 3 either, but on balance getting weapons FIRST means you can have a bit more leeway midgame. You'd only have to research once more in order to get W2, whereas if you'd went nuts for Armour then you'd have to suffer while your weapon ups came online. Hence, I'd rather have my foot on the gun ladder first.

Seriously, increased weapon upgrades loosen your cone of fire, it's been proven.

Well, the point is that you use shotguns and HMGs to cover your deficit (6 minutes for W1, anyways) until you've gotten enough weapon ups.

if I really wanted a3 that badly, I'd forgo observatory, and get two armslabs. Try to get w2/a3 by 6/7 minutes.

If i really wanted tech 3 anythign that badly....
I'd go with church and get 2 arms labs and tech rush.

Oh shut up, you have G4B2S in your signature, level 3 ups pay for themselves in such a large server.

Looks like we have hot topic(for real) The key to win with a3 is to keep yor rts and get people weld. If you can get your team welding you have no problem hading shotties due you need to give them 1 in a min maybe. You could also want to dbl tech wep1 while the a3 finishes due the 1hive skulks will be so much easier to shoot with w1 sgs.

actaully, I fail to see how lvl 3 upgrades pay for themselves in a large server, I fail to see how rines get any extra res. It's just that aliens usualy get less. maybe you'll get an extra 20 rfk.

Hell, you can tech rush with 3 nodes, it'll be tight, but you can do it. And the author DID say this was a strat for large pubs, didn't he?

A3 also seems unnessicarily defensive. You're basically absorbing damage from fades and lerks and hoping you can weld it away it time for the next strike. You can't really kill any of the aliens lifeforms that are buying time for the second hive. So I beleive it allows the aliens too much time to set up thier 2nd hive and save up some res so a majority of them are higher lifeforms.

Personally, I feel that actually killing off fades with earlier shotties and weapon ups is better. It forces them off your res and you get more initiative. Which means more res later on for the final upgrades and guns.

As far as I know weapons upgrades only increase the cone of fire if you DONT die imbetween them or something along those lines (well that is what I heard anyway) could just be a bug?

it is more effecient to get upgrades on large servers because it benefits the WHOLE team of 12 players, which is far more cost effective than the same upgrade for 6 players. also, in larger games, unless the res model changed, i think the rines get more res per tick.

I've never heard of 'rines getting more res per tick. I highly doubt it... seeing as the resource model is already skewed in favour of marines with that many people anyway.

http://www.unknownworlds.com/bt/bug_view_p...?bug_id=0000729

I think most of you have missed the point of armour 3. Its essentialy makes your marines "medium marines" as appossed to the standard light and heavy armour. I've not had the chance to try the tactic in a decent clan game but it works on 6v6 games.

A1, A2, Upgrade Armoury, A3.

Hand out HMG's + Welders.

If you can't kill with a lvl 0 HMG, you won't with a lvl 3 tbh.

So the tactic essentialy works towards the A3 HMG Welder combination at about 6-7 mins mark. A1 will give you the advantage for at least the first 3 mins, maybe 4-5 if you mange to kill some nodes. Though you will take serious casualities between 4-7 mins from the fade. Once you have the HMG's however the fades shouldn't really be a problem as they won't be able to stay engaged long enough to get enough hits to kill your marines, giving time to weld.

There is the large problem that a 2nd hive will cause, but weapons ungrades won't help you here vs those skulks, far better to have HMG's. As I see it, this tactic can work if you get a strong early game, but it leaves you vulnerable for a few minutes until you can hand out HMG's The task then is to use that advantage as quickly as possible to reduce aliens to 1 hive.

Its a waste to hand out too many welders early on, as your wokring towards an advantage at 7mins. Trying to maintain too strong a position between 4-7 mins will probably cost too much.

On pubs this works well if you jsut get them weld, which isnt mostly easy, after that its easy to equip every1 with guns that dont drop all the time.

On gather/pug I tried it once and it didnt work (6vs) The fade was too overpowered with w0/1 sgs even with good welding skills(pug, duh.) I remember trying siege was horribly with the a3 and w1.

So every strat works on pub but the best allso in competitive

you could od like i do...

Give me 4 resnodes.. ill make 2 arms labs...

Ull have W3A3 fully researched with an obs and phase tech and an upgraded armory at the 8 minute mark... my personal best is 7:05 however.....

How? i dont give out medpacks/ammo unless my marines are doin something useful

Most marines ahte me... but i dont care

~Jason

Jason gonna do that some day near. Just that I live in europe so I must plau quite late to get to that classic(co_ is full 24/7 )

Welderrush?