First off, for anyone who was following the progress of my ns map "Space Station Nothing", I have pretty much started over, and am designing it with a new style in mind. New layout and everything. I may keep a few of the more technical areas that I had before, but most of it is being completely overhauled. I have been working on it for quite a while now, but finally decided to post some screenshots.

It really isn't the same as running around in it in-game, but the shots get the basic idea across. I can also imagine it may be a bit hard to make out the pictures in a bright room, as is the case ingame. The shots may also be a bit repetitive, as this is a generally small area.

As far as r_speeds go, I intentionally left the map bare of brush details, and therefore the w_poly in this particular area averages around 400. In hallways around 200.

Anyway, here are the shots: Hope you like the new style.

#1.


#2.


#3.


#4.


#5.


Feedback, as always, is welcome.

WHOA!
very nice lightning indeed!

Are you using world brushes with the null texture to get those sharp shadows? whats your chop value? Eather way it the coolest lighting Ive ever seen in hl! and the texturing is awsume. the only thing is I think I would eather get rid of the yellow lights or make them brighter - they look unnaturaly week.

I love the slices of light on the pipes. There's a texture alignment glitch on the leftmost pipes in the second picture, as the texture isn't aligned properly on the 3 visible surfaces of the pipe. That can be fixed with the 'treat as one' flag and setting the alignment to 'world' when applying it to the pipe.

The pictures of the other areas were a bit too dim for me to judge.

Light_spots!!  My favorite form of lighting.  Nice application!

Thanks for the comments

Mu,
No, they are simple light_spot's set at angles through bars. The bars really do nothing to make the patterns of rays, like you would expect.... they simply make the edges sharper and not rounded. Each ray of light is a seperate entity.

I didn't adjust the chop value, so it should be at default (64?).

As far as the orange lights go, they do show up a lot better and brighter ingame. The whole thing is more natural looking ingame.

Yama,
Thanks for pointing out the texture error. I, personally, don't mind the occasional misaligned texture, but seeing as it was noticed, I'll probably fix it up. Thanks for the tip.

As far as it being too dim... you'll be able to make it out better in the evening. The map is really quite glare sensitive. Though it is somewhat on the darker side.

Awesome man looks really cool.  

Very nice indeed... I like the architecture in the hallways alot! And the lightning too ofcourse...
One thing, maybe you could brighten it up a little... it looks a little bit too dark right now

Since it was once Space Station Nothing, and you've rebuilt, shouldn't it be Space Station Nothing + 1?

Juggle: Actually, in game they well be 'brighter'. (Not really brighter, but the the brighter a texture, the brighter it will become. So dark stuff will stay dark.) There's this really cool little trick that the programmer threw in to do that, but it doesn't transfer over to screenshots.

Well, has anyone tried using HyperSnap for taking screenshots then? That might work...
Here's an url http://www.hyperionics.com/index.asp

Killer work, Ken.  I seriously can't wait to see more of this map.

I doubt any screenshot program will work, because the env_gamma modifies your monitor settings.  The screen capture program would have to look at your monitors gamma ramp, then post process your image when it saves it out.  I noticed that Hypersnap does have support for gamma correction, but I can't tell if it acheives the same effect.

You can achieve this effect manually by opening you screen capture in Photoshop, then selecting Image->Adjust->Levels (control-L).  There are three values next to "input level".  Change the last value according to this formula:

 value = 255 - (WorldcraftGammaSetting - 1.0)*128

So a gamma ramp of 2.0 means that value should be 128, 1.5 should be 192, etc.

Thats realy cool, the ambience and lightting are just perfect in that corridor. Really good job ken =)

I really like it alot, especially the see-through grating!

Must... stop... looking... at... forums...

Must... create... something... good...

I think it's marvellous, the ligthtning especially...gives a FRIGHTNENING FEELING,like the Alien movies...and this is perfect for NS

Great work Ken, really ... however:

*Mimics the thought patterns of Mr Weldon a little up the page*

Must... stop... looking... at... forums...

Must... create... something... good...

looks great.  i love the lighting/shadowing!  i notice your grates are actual brushes, not entities.  it creates great lighting, but how does it affect r_speeds?

Without the bars, the w_poly would probably average around 200-300 for the most part, 100 in the halls. With them though, it averages around 400. Quite an impact, but I have not done any r_speed revisions yet... and probably won't unless it's absolutely necessary. 400 definately seems acceptable enough... I don't really want to mess with the bars too much either. A space of just 1 unit could create an unpleasant strip of light.

Well, I must say that this is really going great.  It's a shame that you've started all over again, but I can understand.  What I'd really like to see in here is some blood.  You know.

Quote (Greedo386 @ Mar. 07 2002,19:10)

It's a shame that you've started all over again, but I can understand.

Well there is a remote chance that I may keep some of the previous areas I designed earlier... It's possible.

What I have planned now is just a lot different in terms of style and layout. R_speeds were holding me back before, but they can be kept reasonable with this current method/style.

The biggest problem here is getting it to look decent with this style of lighting. It can also hide some of your architectural detail if you're not careful. I remeber telling someone not to use only spotlights in his map, but that is pretty much what it is here... there are just so many...

I think it (the lighting style) is easy enough to create, once you figure it out... but is quite the challenge to get looking good in any and every area. I am also going to have to not let it get old or tiresome to look at, and must not light every single area in the map the same way. Obviously.

With that in mind, there may be a few sections of the old SSN that might find their way into this one... maybe.

I'm suprised that you're trashing all you're previous work. Even the layout? The layout you had before was honestly the best layout I've ever seen for NS. I personally think it could seriously hamper you're popularity if you use a new layout :/

yummy!

Wauw.  This looks incredible.  I'm so glad NS is looking this good.  I'd say you can expect job offers left and right after this gets out.

Quote (Tzarcon @ Mar. 10 2002,11:04)

I'm suprised that you're trashing all you're previous work. Even the layout? The layout you had before was honestly the best layout I've ever seen for NS.

I liked that old layout too... but it simply would not work for this current theme. It's too basic. After some recent work I have just done on the map, I have decided that absolutely nothing from the previous version will be making it's way into the new one. It just doesn't fit in. But there is always the slight possiblity that I will finish the old SSN as a completely different map. Same layout and everything. Possible.

Quote

I personally think it could seriously hamper you're popularity if you use a new layout :/

While I truly appreciate your concerns here, I honestly couldn't care less about my popularity. It's really not important to me. Sure, I want to do this for a living, but as I've said before, personal popularity does nothing for me. I'd rather worry about my level design. (And I do... heh)

I really don't think you have to worry... the new layout, while not final and ready for presentation, should suit the map just fine. I think it will be quite fun for the commander too.

wow... that looks great... too industrial though.. more suitable for some kind of mad max scenario... thats at least what i think

Quote (ken20banks @ Mar. 10 2002,15:20)

While I truly appreciate your concerns here, I honestly couldn't care less about my popularity. It's really not important to me.

I was going to make a similar comment here -- popularity means jack in level design. Well, to me and Ken at least, heh... Far too many people let the 'big names' rule everything and worship everything they do while equal and or better people are left aside if not flamed out of existence (well, it's really just the CS community that does that, but still).

I'd rather let my work speak for me than my name.

I don't want to bring this too far off topic, but I'll just say this: it's great to care about your artistry, but I learned awhile ago that artistry doesn't mean as much if it doesn't reach a lot of people!  I mean, why not strive for something extremely artistic AND accessible/popular?

I love Cronenberg, but Spielberg's artistry reaches so many more people.  Even if your name isn't associated with it, don't you want to impact people?

You are right about that Flayra, but what KFS and I were really refering to was personal popularity. Not so much that we don't want our name out there at all... that wouldn't get anyone anywhere... It's just that our "popularity" isn't of our highest concern. There are more important things to spend your time on, then promoting yourself.

I certainly want everyone to know about this level and who made it when it's finished, but striving for superstar status is the community is not the most important thing. And as KFS said, there is always people out there that are more talented then the most popular.

You are a Game Designer. If you needed a level designer for a game you were creating, who would you choose for the position? The more talented, or more popular level designer?

I understand that good PR and popularity is essential for games/mods/all forms of art... but it's just not on the top of my priority list. I know that the whole thing will be a waste of time if no one knows about it, and I never meant to convey that I want otherwise. You kind of have to strike a balance between over-self-glorifying and sitting there keeping your work to yourself. You need to adequately promote your work, without going overboard. I have a hard time with this, but I don't really think I need to worry about it right now.

Sure, I want to make an impact, but my personal "popularity" level doesn't mean as much to me as the quality of my work. I understand the importance of promoting my work, and never meant to suggest otherwise. I just don't like the way this popularity over quality thing works.

I repeat myself a lot...

I think Ken's comment here is about as well-phrased as is possible, so I'll just clarify my position: The fact that I'm desperately clinging to the delusion that I'll get a job in this field does cause me to have a need to share my work with other people, yes. I wouldn't be hosted at PHL if I truly didn't care about recognition at all (though I may not be there much longer if I don't get my FTP access back... those ########. ). However, the last thing I want is little 12 year olds groveling at my feet about how everything I create is the 'l33t3st' thing they've ever seen in Half-Life. Which, unfortunately, is what a lot of mapping forums have degraded to. I can think of a couple right away which shall remain nameless. I'm almost starting to see that here in a couple occurrences. THAT'S the evil of personal popularity, and with that comes much more difficulty in improving oneself (my major goal through all of this, future employment or not) -- If everyone worships every move you make, how can you ever get feedback on how to improve? And how long before you start to believe those people and become an egotistical maniac?

If that makes any sense... I'll... ah... pretend it does.
/me looks around nervously.

Quote

If everyone worships every move you make, how can you ever get feedback on how to improve? And how long before you start to believe those people and become an egotistical maniac? If that makes any sense... I'll... ah... pretend it does. /me looks around nervously.

Makes perfect sense to me.

I, unfortunately know what it is like to be that egotistical maniac whose every move is worshiped... well sorta. And it's not good. (Sorry Flayra, I know you've heard this story a million times)

A couple years back, I joined a certain MOD team as lead level designer. I was capable of creating some fairly visual pleasing rooms in WC at the time, and wasn't afraid to show off. The problem was, I had pretty much zilch interest in the theme of the mod. I wanted to create my own stuff and kind of force feed it into the mod. And I was allowed. The MOD lead thought my work was amazing (I shudder when I think back to those maps), and I was pretty fond of it myself. I kept showing off pictures of my levels on the site, and then scrapping the map. Not a single one of them ever amounted to anything more than a off themed one-roomed map. Not because I came up with something which I liked better, and wanted to spend my time on the newer map (as is the case with SSNothing), but because I never really wanted to put forth the effort to actually complete a full, playable level. I knew, deep down, that I would never finish a map for that team, but I continued to post new shots, come up with new fancy names, and promise that I was going to finish this one... and never did.

I was in it for the fame and popularity, and the oohs and ahhs I got by posting new shots on the forums... I was in it for myself... not the team. And, obviously, I was worth absolutley nothing to the team.

I can only hope that no one on these forums has those same intentions in place, because if you do... you're intent is dead wrong. Trust me.

As for the others, who compliment only the highly popular, well known mappers on these boards, yet completely ignore the lesser known designers, whose work shows amazing potential... shame on you. I don't have any examples, and wouldn't say even if I did... All I know is that I try to comment on everyone's work, and I don't see why if you have the time to tell some superstar mapper how good his work is (like he doesn't get it enough), you can't quick like tell the next guy how to improve his map, or give him a thumbs up. It's maddening... the guys that actually need a pat on the back every once and a while usually go ignored for the most part.

(This is veering even more off-topic... not that I mind... )

The ability to create complex environments that look good and play well is a skill that takes a long time to build up.
Theres more to this argument than technical proficiancy. A lot of people can maps, but its having the right attitude to manage those skills that is important, especially when you progress from mod semi-professionalism to do it for a living. Doing it for a living requires a different approach, deadlines, milestones, time constraints. You will be expected to produce levels that are of high quality in a set time for a retail game that will inevitably be judged on the quality of its content.

There is nothing wrong with self-confidance. It's a motivational force that drives you do excel and produce better products.
If you're lucky enough to be able to pursue level design as a carrer, the amount of critism you recieve will go up dramatically because of the nature of attitudes towards "big evil corperations" who make the games. The development process of a game is also going to be more involved to you. If you're work is not up to standard, if it has problems you will be told, they're not going to include a map just because they don't want to hurt your feelings. Often a map you have spent a month working on and may look awesome will be canned for different reasons, it's just something you have to accept, it happens.

finding a balance between self-confidance and reception to constructive critism is the key to success.

you're work


internet arguments at 7:30 am makes my brain cry

Heh, get some sleep, narby.

It's that damned self-confidence thing that I'm having problems with... Undoubtably as a byproduct of the depression I've been fighting recently. :-\ I'd have some eloquent response here, but my roommate's alarm woke me up a bit earlier than I wanted to get up... I'm going back to bed now. (See? It happens to all of us. )

Awesome, can't wait for this mod to be released, arr!

Alright, before this gets out of hand, I want to clarify that I know that I don't have all the answers here, and I am only expressing my opinions.

I am fully aware that things are a lot different once you become hired by a professional developer. I don't know first hand, as I have only been doing this for 4 years as an amatuer, but it only takes common sense to realise what a difference it would be to do it professionally.

And you are right... there is absolutely nothing wrong with self confidence. If you don't have confidence in yourself, you will only degrade your work down to nothing. But there is a fine line between self confidence and blatant boasting. It's in the attitude. I never tried to suggest the point of non-confidence.

All I really wanted to get across was that regardless whether you are doing this professionally or as an amatuer, you should be concentrating on your work rather than your popularity on a personal level. As KFS said, let your work speak for you rather than trying to force it. But of course... you also need to get it out there to people.

I think all of us are arguing different points here... it's kind of funny, actually.

You know, this is a very very intresting discussion, I mean it.

One thing I very often experience is seeing first one guy replying to a post with pics from a map. If he's really positive to the map the following posts will often say the same thing. (except some people, who either are constructive or in a bad mood)

[EDIT]My point is that people often react in the same way of the first poster, and some posters say all famous mappers maps are great and some people say that everyones maps are great, without knowing much about how maps should look.[/EDIT]

And the thing I'm really thinking about is if first one guy comments, like let's say he says:"Yeah, I like it but move the vents, they're ugly" etc. Then it's a very very big chance that lots of following posts will say about the same thing. "Oh, nice, but yeah the vents could maybe be removed or something"

Ok, I've said what I had in mind, I'll go back and hide in the corner now.

Heh, I've noticed that too, Kassinger. Often people see someone who they respect comment on something and then decide that they share the same opinion... even if they wouldn't have said anything about it if it wasn't mentioned by the first person.

I think for the most part though, the opinion really is shared from the start. Chances are, it would be better off without the vent, or whatever the object of discussion could be.

Yeah, you're right.

But one thing I'm used to see is that if people only post like one (short) line or two in their reply on a such thread, they will still take with lots of what's been said before. :S

Personally, I try to avoid beating a dead horse.  If the mapper's seen 20 responses that say "This texture sucks!" then a 21st won't dissuade him from changing it if he's going to, and it won't convince him to change it if he's decided against fixing it.    Luckily, NS maps generally have enough depth that you can generally find something to comment on that nobody else has.