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Full Version: More Ways To Get Around..!

Unknown Worlds Forums > Natural Selection > Natural Selection Discussion > Ideas and Suggestions Forum > Ideas for future versions

Haze

Nov 6 2004, 02:26 AM

I'm starting to see a lack of ways to get around. Hell, I think we've all seen it. You can crouch, jump, and run. This doesnt leave a lot of things open for mappers in terms of letting the player move around, but I have a few suggestions that I am pretty sure are possible with the HL engine. Of course this would be for the marines only (minus one idea, read below), because the aliens.. well, they're four footed, and they cant really do this. The only bypeddle one is the fade, and hes got claws, and blink, so, onto the idea!

Climbing Over
Climbing over objects would be a great addition. Move up to the object, and when a picture appears in the lower mid section of your monitor, indicating an action is avilable for use, you hit your use key. Now, the marine engages in the action. If its a five foot high wall, theres no reason for him not to be able to get over it just because he cant jump over it. He shoulders his weapon, and hops up, grabbing the ledge, and pulling himself up. Thats just an example of an animation that could play for something like that. Now, onto my next idea that ties in with this one.

Shimying
Shimying! You can once again, hop up onto a five foot wall. Now, while your hanging by one hand, you have three options:

-Drop off
-Pull up
-Shimy (move to the sides while your still dangling if you dont know what it means)

Should you choose to shimy, you can now move the marine side to side along the ledge. This can be used to get on tiny struts of terrain that arent big enough to climb up top on, but shimy across on. Now, while your shimying, you have the following options:

-Drop off
-Pull up
-Unholster your weapon

Unholstering your weapon, awsome! Now, the marine anchors his feet against the wall, removes one hand from the wall, and unholsters his weapon (after you choose it from your HUD) only if its a light machine gun, or pistol, which gives an advantage to having the basic weapons, they're much more versatile and able to be used in tight situations. The marine is now holding his light machine gun/pistol in one hand, and can aim with it. While the marine's weapon is unholstered, he can not move, besides aiming, of course. However, the marine can always have his pistol out as he shimys, but must remain stationary if he is to shoot.

Ladders
I think we all know ladder animations.. well, there arent any. So while we're working on this, add some in! A marine comes up to a ladder object, he presses use once hes indicated that there is an action to the ladder, and he holsters his weapon, once again moving up the ladder. Now, he can only shoot in a shimy mode style, holding his pistol as he climbs the ladder, just like in shimy mode as well, and he cant climb or move around when his weapon is unholstered, just like shimy. This idea is just really a nice piece of polish for the game, or future versions.

Crawling
Yes, this is a prone suggestion. This would allow the marine to go into a crawling postion, and access tight spots. Also, crawling allows the mapper to create these tight spots, or more realistic vents. The skulk/gorge/lerk would have to be altered to fit in these little areas, so a mode for the alien would just to be to stretch himself out a bit, allowing him to fit (IE, spread his limbs to the side so he can go low enough). The marine could also not turn around in vents unless he comes into a more open area. The alien, however, can turn around as he pleases, making the vents his natural home, and very easy to manuver around in, unlike the marine, so entering vents would really be a large deathtrap, and only a last minute resort, as well as a very atmospheric and scary trip. Is he behind you?

Some Final, Nitpicking Requests!
Fix the flashlight to be like "The Specialists" mod flashlight (no longer a big light ball around you, but the flashlight actually shines where you shine it for other players too, leaving you in the dark!), add detail textures, and make the marines have lasers on their helmets for atmospheric purposes only, as the aliens couldnt see the lasers. It would just look cool.

Hope you all liked and agreed with my idea.

Note: Zun, if this isnt possible
in the HL engine, at least
save it (if you think its good,
hopefully!) in the "for future
versions" section, because this
might be ported to other engines
where it is possible. However,
I'm quite sure this is possible in
Half-Life, Flayra has prooved a lot
is possible that we dont think is.

curlydave

Nov 6 2004, 02:40 AM

It's great, but the team's too conservative to implement it.

theclam

Nov 6 2004, 03:48 AM

QUOTE

Climbing Over
Climbing over objects would be a great addition. Move up to the object, and when a picture appears in the lower mid section of your monitor, indicating an action is avilable for use, you hit your use key. Now, the marine engages in the action. If its a five foot high wall, theres no reason for him not to be able to get over it just because he cant jump over it. He shoulders his weapon, and hops up, grabbing the ledge, and pulling himself up. Thats just an example of an animation that could play for something like that. Now, onto my next idea that ties in with this one.

There aren't many places in the official maps that you could climb over that don't already have ladders. What if the mapper doesn't want you climbing up somewhere, but doesn't want to put change the map to stop climbing? If the mapper wants you to climb somewhere, he'll put a ladder there.

QUOTE

Shimying
Shimying! You can once again, hop up onto a five foot wall. Now, while your hanging by one hand, you have three options:

-Drop off
-Pull up
-Shimy (move to the sides while your still dangling if you dont know what it means)

Should you choose to shimy, you can now move the marine side to side along the ledge. This can be used to get on tiny struts of terrain that arent big enough to climb up top on, but shimy across on. Now, while your shimying, you have the following options:

-Drop off
-Pull up
-Unholster your weapon

Unholstering your weapon, awsome! Now, the marine anchors his feet against the wall, removes one hand from the wall, and unholsters his weapon (after you choose it from your HUD) only if its a light machine gun, or pistol, which gives an advantage to having the basic weapons, they're much more versatile and able to be used in tight situations. The marine is now holding his light machine gun/pistol in one hand, and can aim with it. While the marine's weapon is unholstered, he can not move, besides aiming, of course.

If you want to shimmy down, just jump. You really don't take much, or any damage from jumping down a wall.

QUOTE

Ladders
I think we all know ladder animations.. well, there arent any. So while we're working on this, add some in! A marine comes up to a ladder object, he presses use once hes indicated that there is an action to the ladder, and he holsters his weapon, once again moving up the ladder. Now, he can only shoot in a shimy mode style, and he cant climb or move around when his weapon is unholstered, just like shimy. This idea is just really a nice piece of polish for the game, or future versions.

Ladder animations might be nice. However, I don't really know why people want not to be able to shoot while climbing. It really really suck in some maps, like cargo-->mess hall in ns_nancy. Plus, if you put in ladder animations, what animations would you give the gorge?

QUOTE

Crawling
Yes, this is a prone suggestion. This would allow the marine to go into a crawling postion, and access tight spots. Also, crawling allows the mapper to create these tight spots, or more realistic vents. The skulk/gorge/lerk would have to be altered to fit in these little areas, so a mode for the alien would just to be to stretch himself out a bit, allowing him to fit (IE, spread his limbs to the side so he can go low enough). The marine could also not turn around in vents unless he comes into a more open area. The alien, however, can turn around as he pleases, making the vents his natural home, and very easy to manuver around in, unlike the marine, so entering vents would really be a large deathtrap, and only a last minute resort, as well as a very atmospheric and scary trip. Is he behind you?

Why would this be any better than the current system, where you crouch, and the vents are designed to be crouching size? Until the day NS gets DoD/CS style recoil (the day, I'd quit), prone is an unecessary addition.

QUOTE

Some Final, Nitpicking Requests!
Fix the flashlight to be like "The Specialists" mod flashlight (no longer a big light ball around you, but the flashlight actually shines where you shine it for other players too, leaving you in the dark!), add detail textures, and make the marines have lasers on their helmets for atmospheric purposes only, as the aliens couldnt see the lasers. It would just look cool.

This would remove the disadvantage of the flashlight. The flashlight is supposed to light you up. You are supposed to have to decide between being lit up and being able to see well. Unless a visor is implemented, like in another suggestion, the laser would look out of place. If you want a laser, go to a server with the laser plugin, or get a model with a laser.

BulletHead

Nov 6 2004, 03:50 AM

This won't happen till the year 2021...

and by then we'll all be dead from nuclear halocaust...

But I LOVE the ideas!

Pika-Cthulhu

Nov 6 2004, 04:25 AM

I love the ideas, but I dont see them being implemented anytime soon, it would delay the next version. Perhaps adding this suggestion to possible future version of NS.

I like the idea of shimmying across an area (Especially a large chasm deep in a ship to get to the other side if a bridge is out) but maybe only have the Pistol equipped here (Or welder if you need to open/fix something up there) the LMG would have to have seriously bad aim when doing something like this, and would probably only save you if the skulk on the wall is in your face, what with is erratic aim, and you trying to compensate, whilst also trying to hold onto a wall and not fall off. Whicih would add more teamwork (Say your squad wants to get across a chasm, one guy goes across, while the rest of the team keeps him covered, soon as he gets across he covers that side whilst another one shimmies across. But I can see potential abuse here. Some marine is left alive on the map, he runs to a bridge and dangles off the bottom so as not to be seen and can extend the game, with SoF this is negated, but can still be annoying.

Keep the good ideas coming.

PRTe

Nov 6 2004, 04:40 AM

climbing over and shimying make marines able to access more places. in the first place aliens are supposed to be the only ones who can reach these hard to reach places unless the marines have help such as jp. Aliens are supposed to be the ones that get to these sorts of places, which allows them to ambush. By adding these options many hard to reach places would be accessible to marines removing most of the advantage of wall walking, flying and blinking. if mappers really want marines to reach a place they just need to put a ladder.

about ladders, ns isnt about realism as said many many many times before. so the holstering and unholstering thing really makes no sense, it just takes away so much of the fun factor.

Zek

Nov 6 2004, 04:46 AM

While it would be nice to replace HL's bizarre movement quirks with more realistic navigation for marines, it would be waay too much work for way too insignificant a benefit. I can only imagine the horrors associated with trying to work this out for the HL engine.

RobB

Nov 6 2004, 12:21 PM

heh... i like it. especialy when skulks,gorges and lerks would gain the height of a prone marine, which means
a) no jp in vents anymore
b) no hiding rines
c) no fades getting lost in vents

but, in case you didn't know, this would need another hull/hitbox size, which simply isn't avaible - the count is already at max.
lam, jpm, ham, skulk gorge lerk, fade (lam?), onos....

QUOTE

This would remove the disadvantage of the flashlight. The flashlight is supposed to light you up. You are supposed to have to decide between being lit up and being able to see well.

I don't think so

Haze

Nov 7 2004, 11:44 PM

Since this is an extended (and none flaming, well thought out response! Much love, theclam! Good to know even though you dont like an idea you dont feel the need to flame.. wish more people were like that) response, I'm going to mark areas in quotes with numbers where theclam responded, then put the corrosponding number by my response to it, only if there is more than one thing inside the paragraph to respond to.

QUOTE (theclam)

QUOTE (Haze)

Climbing Over

(I)There aren't many places in the official maps that you could climb over that don't already have ladders. (II)What if the mapper doesn't want you climbing up somewhere, but doesn't want to put change the map to stop climbing? (III)If the mapper wants you to climb somewhere, he'll put a ladder there.

(I) This idea wasnt in the game when these maps were made. The mappers had to create something that the player could navigate, but with this idea they can get more creative, and wont have to put that ladder there, instead the player can climb over the object.

(II) If the mapper doesnt want us climbing somewhere, he doesnt have to worry. Just because we can climb it, doesnt mean it has to lead anywhere.

(III) With this idea, the mapper wont have to put that ladder there. Instead, he can do something else thats more creative.

QUOTE (theclam)

QUOTE (Haze)

Shimying

If you want to shimmy down, just jump. You really don't take much, or any damage from jumping down a wall.

Thats not the main catch of this idea, dropping off. You can shimmy along two inch long ledges, that would be otherwise impossible to walk on. From here, the mapper can, as said, have a bridge that extends across, say, a pit. The bridge is out, so you locate some small, long ledges that lead around the pit and to the other side. You simply drop off on the thick part, then shimy along to the thin part, all the way across to the thick part again, then pull yourself up. Many creative map possiblitys with this idea, as well as the climbing idea. Think of how creative the maps would be!

Hell, you wouldnt even need a jump key anymore, you could simply have a jump action next to a pit, and the marine leaps across to the otherside. This would eliminate that annoying marine hopping aspect of the game when the skulk is biting at his heels. But I wont go into that.

Way to many flames.

QUOTE (theclam)

QUOTE (Haze)

Ladders

(II)Ladder animations might be nice. However, I don't really know why people want not to be able to shoot while climbing. It really really suck in some maps, like cargo-->mess hall in ns_nancy. (II) Plus, if you put in ladder animations, what animations would you give the gorge?

(I)The marines can shoot while on the ladder, but it would be too cumbersome to unholster your gun when a threat comes along, as well as take too long. Idea updated to reflect that, the marine will now be able to hold his pistol in one hand as he climbs, and still be able to use that hand to climb up the ladder with. Pistol isnt that big, and would give the marine some defense.

(II)Whos says the aliens need to get animations just because the marines do? They'd still slide up the ladder themselves.

QUOTE (theclam)

QUOTE (haze)

Nitpick Requests

(I)This would remove the disadvantage of the flashlight. The flashlight is supposed to light you up. You are supposed to have to decide between being lit up and being able to see well. (II)Unless a visor is implemented, like in another suggestion, the laser would look out of place. If you want a laser, go to a server with the laser plugin, or get a model with a laser.

(I) I beg to differ. Thats way, way too much of a disadvantage. When your in a dark tunnel, with skulks surrounding you, its a wee bit better to stay completly dark. If you turn on your flashlight, you're basically screwed. With the flashlight like "The Specialists" mod, you could light up that flashlight in the dark tunnel, and the aliens could watch the light on the wall, and then see which way the light is comming from, and attack in that direction. It could use some tweaking, maybe a small, tiny streak of light comming from the front of the marine, but thats it.

(II)The laser, however, wouldnt look out of place I think. If anything, it'd make it look cooler. It wouldnt be a long lazer at all, maybe five feet or so, before it dissappears. Perhaps, however, the laser could be taken farther, and infact go as long as the map does. Then, it appears in first person as your crosshair. That'd be really, really cool.

Haze

Nov 7 2004, 11:45 PM

QUOTE (RobB @ Nov 6 2004, 07:21 AM)

QUOTE

This would remove the disadvantage of the flashlight. The flashlight is supposed to light you up. You are supposed to have to decide between being lit up and being able to see well.

I don't think so

Use the skulk hitbox.

Zunni

Nov 9 2004, 12:33 AM

QUOTE

Exactly... it even may be possible on the HL1 engine, but it's a tremendous amount of work for virtually no pay off...

I have made a note of it though to be talked about for the future.

Haze

Nov 14 2004, 05:13 AM

*bump* Anyone's thoughts?

Bait_Boy

Nov 14 2004, 08:36 AM

Personally, I like these ideas, especially the prone (vents from alien anyone?)

KeksImperium

Nov 14 2004, 09:22 AM

all good thoughts but maybe for the next engine...

Crispy

Nov 14 2004, 07:28 PM

QUOTE (Haze)

- This idea wasnt in the game when these maps were made. The mappers had to create something that the player could navigate, but with this idea they can get more creative, and wont have to put that ladder there, instead the player can climb over the object.

- If the mapper doesnt want us climbing somewhere, he doesnt have to worry. Just because we can climb it, doesnt mean it has to lead anywhere.

- With this idea, the mapper wont have to put that ladder there. Instead, he can do something else thats more creative.

There are reasons* why this wouldn't work/would work badly on the current engine but it is possible for a future version. It would also put the Marines in prone situations which throws the agility factor to the Aliens, which is where the advantage shoulod lie.

* Completely new maps would have to be made following completely new guidelines (extremely time-consuming). Most areas that are inaccessible for Marines are inaccessible for a reason -we (mappers) don't want them to build there as that room/area needs to be more in Aliens favour to balance the overall gameplay of the map.

I would like to see this discussed in more detail when we have more detail about the future NS engine, it has a lot of potential. Just as long as it doesn't turn into Tomb Raider!

Haze

Nov 20 2004, 03:36 AM

Its not like the marines have access to a whole bunch more places in the offical maps now. As a past newbie mapper (hopefully I'll get back into it!!) I know I'd be a whole lot more excited to make maps for this than just jump and duck.

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