a marine picks up heavy armor, he wanted the jet pack that was right next to it.
The marine takes 5 seconds to remove the heavy armor, it appears a few feet away and directly in front of him; he can now pick up the jet pack he originaly wanted, without having to suicide and waste the HA. During removal, a status bar identical to the bar seen when welding a "weldable" appears. The marine can't move or shoot. Letting go of the remove key stops the process, and you have to start over from scratch.
The 5 second delay is to keep people from dropping their heavy armor or pack right before they die, allowing someone else to pick up the gear and after a few seconds of welding have a brand new set. Preferably, gear "dropped" using this method would have the same shelf life of gear that was just dropped by the commander, and not just disapear after 30 seconds or so.
Taking this idea further. to pick up heavy armor or a jetpack you have to run over to it and press and hold your use key for 3 seconds. A status bar, just like welding, appears, and also says wether you're getting a jet pack or heavy armor. If you let go of the use key, you stop picking up the gear.
It would be very difficult to pick up the wrong equipment, and if/when you want to switch, there would be a method of doing so without suicide and waste.
Full Version: Picking Up And Removing Jp/ha
Unknown Worlds Forums > Natural Selection > Natural Selection Discussion > Ideas and Suggestions Forum > Ideas for future versions
Commander decides what the marine wants/doesn't want. If the comm wants a specific someone to get a piece of armor, he can put it some place out of the way, or drop it on them.
most of my proto labs are in a corner. the radius for the lab sometimes doesn't even reach the armory. I'm usually very limited in where i can drop a bunch of gear. Dropping it on the person or in a place that they alone can get it isn't always easy. in fact, it's rarely easy.
Also, i only think in terms of public play. With that in mind, the first half of my idea isn't that crucial. The second half is very legitimate though.
The way it is now, new players and good players alike will generaly lunge for gear and whoever gets there first will have it. I shouldn't have to find my 4 best marines and work to have them stand to the side to just to make sure they recieve items. That is time consuming when it doesn't have to be.
If a player had to run up to the JP or HA and press + hold the use key for a few seconds to equip it, you'd see fewer new players running around with expensive gear that should be in the hands of more deserving people on the team.
I'm not saying never give new players anything, i'm saying make it a little more complicated and take time to pick up JP and HA. The players that you want to get it have a better chance of getting it, the lower prioritiy players will get the items the next time around.
And just the concept of being able to strap on a jet pack or get inside a suit of armor in zero seconds... is it explained somewhere? Heavy trains will take a couple more seconds to form and organize. And rightly so.
I'd rather see the JP or HA sit unused in base for a minute than have someone completely new to the game have it.... call me whatever.
Also, i only think in terms of public play. With that in mind, the first half of my idea isn't that crucial. The second half is very legitimate though.
The way it is now, new players and good players alike will generaly lunge for gear and whoever gets there first will have it. I shouldn't have to find my 4 best marines and work to have them stand to the side to just to make sure they recieve items. That is time consuming when it doesn't have to be.
If a player had to run up to the JP or HA and press + hold the use key for a few seconds to equip it, you'd see fewer new players running around with expensive gear that should be in the hands of more deserving people on the team.
I'm not saying never give new players anything, i'm saying make it a little more complicated and take time to pick up JP and HA. The players that you want to get it have a better chance of getting it, the lower prioritiy players will get the items the next time around.
And just the concept of being able to strap on a jet pack or get inside a suit of armor in zero seconds... is it explained somewhere? Heavy trains will take a couple more seconds to form and organize. And rightly so.
I'd rather see the JP or HA sit unused in base for a minute than have someone completely new to the game have it.... call me whatever.
Sure, steal my idea....
Quaunaut, your response is nearly irrelevant and falls into the category of "let's bash good ideas because this is the S&I forum and that's all we do here."
the idea makes plenty of sense to me (atleast the removal part). this is an element of polish that NS lacks and really should have.
yes, the commander may decide that someone should get a specific piece of equipement, but in the hustle and bustle (
) of things, it's not entirely uncommon for even skilled players to mistakenly grab the wrong item, or for the commander to accidentally drop it on the wrong player.
being "stuck" with a piece of gear you didn't want or need is ridiculous and shouldn't happen, especially when the game forces you to pay resources for that gear.
the idea makes plenty of sense to me (atleast the removal part). this is an element of polish that NS lacks and really should have.
yes, the commander may decide that someone should get a specific piece of equipement, but in the hustle and bustle (
) of things, it's not entirely uncommon for even skilled players to mistakenly grab the wrong item, or for the commander to accidentally drop it on the wrong player.being "stuck" with a piece of gear you didn't want or need is ridiculous and shouldn't happen, especially when the game forces you to pay resources for that gear.
| QUOTE (typical skeleton @ Oct 31 2004, 03:49 PM) |
| Quaunaut, your response is nearly irrelevant and falls into the category of "let's bash good ideas because this is the S&I forum and that's all we do here." |
Actually, it's quite relevant. If the commander is good and he communicates with the people he wants to get the equipment, he'll either drop the equipment right on them, or make little piles of it away from the prying eyes of some idiot who grabs a jp, dies to a gorge, respawns and repeats. If you get stuck with something you didn't want, guess what? Either the com specifically dropped it on you, and your opinion doesn't matter, or the com is an idiot and dropped everything in the same place so you couldn't help it, or you just weren't watching where you were walking.
I actually agree with the damn idea, but I don't agree with your unnecessary comments.
| QUOTE |
| Taking this idea further. to pick up heavy armor or a jetpack you have to run over to it and press and hold your use key for 3 seconds. A status bar, just like welding, appears, and also says wether you're getting a jet pack or heavy armor. If you let go of the use key, you stop picking up the gear. It would be very difficult to pick up the wrong equipment, and if/when you want to switch, there would be a method of doing so without suicide and waste. |
But what if the base is under heavy attack and you need a HA/JP very quickly? A fade can eat a LMG (using fade as an example, anything would, except maybe a gorge
) while they are stood still equipping things.Apart from that, great idea.
And I have to say, this made me laugh :
| QUOTE (5kyh16h91) |
| If the commander is good and he communicates with the people he wants to get the equipment, he'll either drop the equipment right on them, or make little piles of it away from the prying eyes of some idiot who grabs a jp, dies to a gorge, respawns and repeats. |
EDIT: When quote tags attack.
5ky, do you command much at all? As previously stated, the proto lab has a limited radius for dropping the upgrades. in cramped bases, the commander, no matter how good, is not always able to drop the equipement right where it should be, especially in particularly hectic games.
not to mention that not every marine is right on the ball. maybe one comes flying through a PG and mistakenly runs over a JP pile laid out for the guy trying to jump around armory humpers. you are obviously NOT taking into consideration "real life" elements that make your ideal-world type concepts flawed.
I know it feels cool to say "a good comm will do this", but everyone knows this isn't the case.
again, the very priniciple of being stuck with a JP or HA when you didn't want it or need it is ridiculous and is not something that should happen in the game. no, commanders cannot always drop the equipment in the right spot... commanders aren't even always what you'd consider very "good" at commanding, that DOESN'T mean that marines should have to be stuck with gear they don't want.
you agree the idea should be implemented, but at the same time think what Quaunaut said makes sense? that a commander will give you what you need when you need it?.. so which is it?
if the idea is viable, then apparently what Quaunaut said ISN'T relevant. if what he said is relevant, then the idea isn't viable because every commander is uber and can put equipment right where it needs to be when it needs to be there, regardless of everything.
I'm done.
not to mention that not every marine is right on the ball. maybe one comes flying through a PG and mistakenly runs over a JP pile laid out for the guy trying to jump around armory humpers. you are obviously NOT taking into consideration "real life" elements that make your ideal-world type concepts flawed.
I know it feels cool to say "a good comm will do this", but everyone knows this isn't the case.
again, the very priniciple of being stuck with a JP or HA when you didn't want it or need it is ridiculous and is not something that should happen in the game. no, commanders cannot always drop the equipment in the right spot... commanders aren't even always what you'd consider very "good" at commanding, that DOESN'T mean that marines should have to be stuck with gear they don't want.
you agree the idea should be implemented, but at the same time think what Quaunaut said makes sense? that a commander will give you what you need when you need it?.. so which is it?
if the idea is viable, then apparently what Quaunaut said ISN'T relevant. if what he said is relevant, then the idea isn't viable because every commander is uber and can put equipment right where it needs to be when it needs to be there, regardless of everything.
I'm done.
I don't think its a matter of the comm can drop it where he wants, I think its more that a comm will give out what he thinks he needs for the job. If he wants to give out JP's and heavies he should make 2 seperate pile away from each other, preferably with welders in the heavy pile (annoys me when i get HA and no welder).
I like the idea of taking stuff off, but not the putting it on. But even so if someone picks up equipment ment for someone else they ain't going to take it off for them 9 times out of 10.
I like the idea of taking stuff off, but not the putting it on. But even so if someone picks up equipment ment for someone else they ain't going to take it off for them 9 times out of 10.
I like the idea. Marines can drop guns that they don't want, why not HA/JP?
| QUOTE (typical skeleton @ Oct 31 2004, 02:41 PM) |
| 5ky, do you command much at all? As previously stated, the proto lab has a limited radius for dropping the upgrades. in cramped bases, the commander, no matter how good, is not always able to drop the equipement right where it should be, especially in particularly hectic games. not to mention that not every marine is right on the ball. maybe one comes flying through a PG and mistakenly runs over a JP pile laid out for the guy trying to jump around armory humpers. you are obviously NOT taking into consideration "real life" elements that make your ideal-world type concepts flawed. I know it feels cool to say "a good comm will do this", but everyone knows this isn't the case. again, the very priniciple of being stuck with a JP or HA when you didn't want it or need it is ridiculous and is not something that should happen in the game. no, commanders cannot always drop the equipment in the right spot... commanders aren't even always what you'd consider very "good" at commanding, that DOESN'T mean that marines should have to be stuck with gear they don't want. you agree the idea should be implemented, but at the same time think what Quaunaut said makes sense? that a commander will give you what you need when you need it?.. so which is it? if the idea is viable, then apparently what Quaunaut said ISN'T relevant. if what he said is relevant, then the idea isn't viable because every commander is uber and can put equipment right where it needs to be when it needs to be there, regardless of everything. I'm done. |
I've *never* in my entire commanding career(1.04-3.00) have EVER had to select my one out of a million marines. Frankly, only newby comms do this- otherwise, drop the stuff and pray someone smart gets it.
Also, with how high resflow is right now, there is NO REASON PERIOD why you shouldn't be able to drop it for the entire team.
If every marine isn't on the ball, THEN DONT MIND THEM. I go MANY games without even paying mild attention to terrible marines- frankly, I couldn't count on 50 people's fingers how many times I've won a game litterally with 2 people- note, 2 AVERAGE/SUCKY people. Not the OMGh4x0rz of the world.
Also, if you're gonna give me that BS about "Well what about new comms?"- frankly, this will make it harder for them, not to mention COMMING IS NOT HARD AT ALL. I litterally one day(after a waaaaaay too long stint of not comming) just got in the chair. Being I knew generally how to assault a hive/conduct a siege/take res nodes, I did a okay job. Lost. I tried again. Won.
And you can ask anyone from Lunixmonster- I'm not that great. Sure, I'm a good skulk/LA/JP/fade(not so much with the fade), but I'm not a uber player by any means. Really, the only thing I'm good at is Skulk- and now, comm.
As I said before: HELL NO. NS WAS NOT MEANT FOR IDIOTS TO PLAY. IF YOU HAVE IDIOTS ON YOUR TEAM, DEAL WITH IT!(aka, find a different server/ignore them/don't comm/pray to God that he'll grant you with a few/learn commrage)
| QUOTE |
| Quaunaut, your response is nearly irrelevant and falls into the category of "let's bash good ideas because this is the S&I forum and that's all we do here." |
Commentaries on what you perceive to be an attitude of I&S is not wanted.. Keep your replies on-topic please..
| QUOTE |
| again, the very priniciple of being stuck with a JP or HA when you didn't want it or need it is ridiculous and is not something that should happen in the game. |
You are playing a game where the commander makes the decision about what equipment you get.. what you (as a player) want is what's really irrelevant here..
As someone else mentioned, being able to pick up equipment immediately is often vital to protecting your base.. It's also always used when attacking a base in a timely manner (beaconing everyone home and then equiping everyone and sending them back through a PG) Those seconds while you equp the equpiment will mean the difference between what should have been a successful rush, and what was a successful rush.
As for the original idea Nothing would stop a griefer from pulling the same garbage they pull with weapons currently.. Also, If the comm dropped a HA on you, then he wants you to have it.. If the comm drops 5 HA and 1 JP and has the JP earmarked for one particular player and dropped HA on you, there is NO way you should be able to drop that HA and grab that JP..
As for the original idea Nothing would stop a griefer from pulling the same garbage they pull with weapons currently.. Also, If the comm dropped a HA on you, then he wants you to have it.. If the comm drops 5 HA and 1 JP and has the JP earmarked for one particular player and dropped HA on you, there is NO way you should be able to drop that HA and grab that JP..
Mabie have like a equip-lock option for the commander letting him lock certain marines with the first thing they pick up. So that if the situation calls for HAs (EG: Onos rush) then the aliens quickly change to a JP situation (EG: lerky rush in big room) and if the marines are stuck with their HAs then they have to be very lucky, or smart, to win.
| QUOTE |
| Mabie have like a equip-lock option for the commander letting him lock certain marines with the first thing they pick up. So that if the situation calls for HAs (EG: Onos rush) then the aliens quickly change to a JP situation (EG: lerky rush in big room) and if the marines are stuck with their HAs then they have to be very lucky, or smart, to win. |
If the aliens change their gameplan like that, then the commander still has to get his troops back to base before they can be re-equipped anyway.
I don't see a time when lerks would pose a threat to HA, especially since they cannot be damaged by spores.. But I see what you are trying to get at. The aliens have to either die, or regestate (taking time) to change strats in the middle of an offensive volley like that, and it would be impractical for them to do so just because they see what the marines have. By the time they either gestate to onos or lerks, the marines would have a TF up and upgrading in a locked down position able to deal with whatever comes at them OR they would already be in the hive taking it down...
There isn't a time in NS when you need a really quick change from HA to JP or vice versa unless your comm made a mistake in assigning the higher armour.
Adding a "quick-lock" would be an extra feature that the commander would have to implement EVERY time for the majority of players (way too time consuming).. I tend to actually waypoint my team by the proto so I can be sure who is getting what.. or call out 1 player who is getting something special and since they have been called out they have been teh ones following orders all game anyway and are very likely to stand where I need them.
Sorry Krad! I actually did get off my rear and did about 5 different searches for this topic. I couldn't find anything, even though I knew someone must have suggested it. If you could give me a link so i can check out your ideas, problems, and solutions it would be appreciated.
Zunni, i'm glad to see that the higher ups still play the actual game. Especially when they're the ones considering changes for the game. You and Dark Death hit one of the underlying effects of this change... loading up on equipment will take more time.
It's really a matter of preference, I want to slow down top level equipment without reducing effectiveness during fighting. If an alien or group of aliens manage to get into the marine base while it has only one guard, I don't want that surprised guard to instantly pick up HA and fend off the attackers with relative ease. I want the marines to have to work harder, even if it's just a fraction of the effort aliens have to put in.
Look at the reverse: If a jet packer with a shotgun flies into the alien hive which only has one skulk it requires the help of teammates to kill the jet packer. Or the skulk can spend 30 or so seconds in a vulnerable egg to become a fade or lerk.
I want to keep the teams distinct and unique, but I also like changes that make the game more challenging and help balance in some situations. If aliens have to be vulnerable for 30 seconds I think the marines can, and should, be able to deal with 3 seconds of vulnerability.
Again, that's just my opinion. There are a lot of factors i didn't look at, and a lot of you might prefer things the way they are now for some of the reasons posted in this thread. It's all how you percieve balance.
Kharaa are suposed to be the adaptive and fast race. Marines shouldn't be able to go from light armors to team full of heavy armors in a split second. If the extra 5 seconds was all the kharaa needed to halt the rush, then I think they deserve that victory.
As for griefers... it would have to be a pretty hardcore griefer, willing to spend a good deal of time and patience... i'm pretty sure griefers are just people who are bored; they want a fast and cheap thrill. Wasting equipment, one piece at a time, shouldn't seem that appealing to them. there are plenty of other faster ways to ruin the game as it is. Also, i've never seen anyone waste weapons deliberatly, if that's what you meant zunni. Not once... and i play on at least 6 different servers.
Zunni, i'm glad to see that the higher ups still play the actual game. Especially when they're the ones considering changes for the game. You and Dark Death hit one of the underlying effects of this change... loading up on equipment will take more time.
It's really a matter of preference, I want to slow down top level equipment without reducing effectiveness during fighting. If an alien or group of aliens manage to get into the marine base while it has only one guard, I don't want that surprised guard to instantly pick up HA and fend off the attackers with relative ease. I want the marines to have to work harder, even if it's just a fraction of the effort aliens have to put in.
Look at the reverse: If a jet packer with a shotgun flies into the alien hive which only has one skulk it requires the help of teammates to kill the jet packer. Or the skulk can spend 30 or so seconds in a vulnerable egg to become a fade or lerk.
I want to keep the teams distinct and unique, but I also like changes that make the game more challenging and help balance in some situations. If aliens have to be vulnerable for 30 seconds I think the marines can, and should, be able to deal with 3 seconds of vulnerability.
Again, that's just my opinion. There are a lot of factors i didn't look at, and a lot of you might prefer things the way they are now for some of the reasons posted in this thread. It's all how you percieve balance.
Kharaa are suposed to be the adaptive and fast race. Marines shouldn't be able to go from light armors to team full of heavy armors in a split second. If the extra 5 seconds was all the kharaa needed to halt the rush, then I think they deserve that victory.
As for griefers... it would have to be a pretty hardcore griefer, willing to spend a good deal of time and patience... i'm pretty sure griefers are just people who are bored; they want a fast and cheap thrill. Wasting equipment, one piece at a time, shouldn't seem that appealing to them. there are plenty of other faster ways to ruin the game as it is. Also, i've never seen anyone waste weapons deliberatly, if that's what you meant zunni. Not once... and i play on at least 6 different servers.
thanks Krad. You're right, there really isn't anything funadamentaly differen't between our threads... sorry.
And kester, if i had to pick between the two "parts" of this idea, i'd go with: time needed to put gear on. It solves the problem of picking up the wrong equipment. Wether you think it's a good or bad thing that it now takes time to put on the suit of HA... it's preference.
I just think it's a small nerf that helps put the marines back into what I think they should be... or shouldn't be. They shouldn't be able to rush as easily as they do now. I want the aliens to be the fast responding adaptive team.
again, just my preference. I don't make the game, so all I can do is play it and post.
And kester, if i had to pick between the two "parts" of this idea, i'd go with: time needed to put gear on. It solves the problem of picking up the wrong equipment. Wether you think it's a good or bad thing that it now takes time to put on the suit of HA... it's preference.
I just think it's a small nerf that helps put the marines back into what I think they should be... or shouldn't be. They shouldn't be able to rush as easily as they do now. I want the aliens to be the fast responding adaptive team.
again, just my preference. I don't make the game, so all I can do is play it and post.
| QUOTE (Quaunaut @ Oct 31 2004, 03:03 PM) |
| Commander decides what the marine wants/doesn't want. If the comm wants a specific someone to get a piece of armor, he can put it some place out of the way, or drop it on them. |
How about in a pug when you are completely abolishing the other team, there is gun spam and HA/JP spam on the ground, and you accidently grab the HA, because you couldn't pull off a nice enough lunge for the JP you saw on the ground.
Sure you could just suicide for the JP.. but.. why?
Because the story says that it links into your nervous system which ACTUALLY means one of a few things...
Ok that's inappropriate...
Personally, I think it's letter C.....
Ok that's inappropriate...
Personally, I think it's letter C.....
So it's able to instantly link into your CNS but cannot instantly be unconnected. There's not a lot of logic in that.
I think that there should be a short time for this connection to be made, not to mention the time it would take to materialise around the Marine's body (before you say "but buildings materialise instantly" I see them as being built more like in Total Annihilation). I think that the Commander (as well as the player) should have the option of removing equipment (for this the voting system would have to be improved immensely to get rid of abusive Coms) and that it should take either the same time or longer. JPs take far less time to don.
I think that there should be a short time for this connection to be made, not to mention the time it would take to materialise around the Marine's body (before you say "but buildings materialise instantly" I see them as being built more like in Total Annihilation). I think that the Commander (as well as the player) should have the option of removing equipment (for this the voting system would have to be improved immensely to get rid of abusive Coms) and that it should take either the same time or longer. JPs take far less time to don.
The concept is good, and I can see instances where this can be helpfull. But in my experience, a comm needs to know which marines he can trust with whatever equipment. Sure it may put less control in the hands of a comm, freeing him to concentrate on that Siege base, but, alot of players, I noticed, tend to like JP's over HA, and given the option, will remove the HA, refuse to go to the siegebase/heavy train, and demand a JP from the Comm, possibly even sitting in base, screaming at the comm to give him a jetpack, because he is 'godly' with one.
I think, the final decision should always be with the comm. it is he who sets the standard for the tactics, not the marines. Unless there was an implementation of a battlefield sargeant/squad commander, who works in tandem with the comm, and is the only one with voice comm to the commander, but everyone else talks to him, he can help the comm decide on the best course of action for the team, then maybe your idea has merit. But as it stands, the comm makes the final decision.
As for bad/idiot/newb comms, deal with it. Try to teach him, rather than insult him. Show him how things, done differently, can really help turn the tide. The comm may have the map overview, but he can only gague the skill of the enemy from your reports, or death statistics. Constantly apprise him of the situation, keep him informed about whats happenening on the ground, but try not to micspam him. If he decides to go Heavy train, he obviously has seen something you havent, or has some wickidly devillish strategy in mind.
Or hes a complete tool who cant find his **** with both hands and a flashlight. BUT, he is the Commander, you have to follow his orders. IF hes a retard in the chair, eject, find someone better who can possibly salvage the mission. A good commander can lead a team to victory, a great commander can revive a crippled mission, and then lead a team to victory.
And if its personal preference, your better with JP than HA, then learn to use the HA. Its VERY effective, if not a bit boring at times, but if done properly, you can then have the joy of knifing/welding a hive to death.
I do like the idea, but it really doesnt fit in with the NS world.
(As for instant armour, I like that about NS, you dont actually put the armour on, you simply pickup a nano-representation, which instantly reforms around your body, and encases you in the item)
I think, the final decision should always be with the comm. it is he who sets the standard for the tactics, not the marines. Unless there was an implementation of a battlefield sargeant/squad commander, who works in tandem with the comm, and is the only one with voice comm to the commander, but everyone else talks to him, he can help the comm decide on the best course of action for the team, then maybe your idea has merit. But as it stands, the comm makes the final decision.
As for bad/idiot/newb comms, deal with it. Try to teach him, rather than insult him. Show him how things, done differently, can really help turn the tide. The comm may have the map overview, but he can only gague the skill of the enemy from your reports, or death statistics. Constantly apprise him of the situation, keep him informed about whats happenening on the ground, but try not to micspam him. If he decides to go Heavy train, he obviously has seen something you havent, or has some wickidly devillish strategy in mind.
Or hes a complete tool who cant find his **** with both hands and a flashlight. BUT, he is the Commander, you have to follow his orders. IF hes a retard in the chair, eject, find someone better who can possibly salvage the mission. A good commander can lead a team to victory, a great commander can revive a crippled mission, and then lead a team to victory.
And if its personal preference, your better with JP than HA, then learn to use the HA. Its VERY effective, if not a bit boring at times, but if done properly, you can then have the joy of knifing/welding a hive to death.
I do like the idea, but it really doesnt fit in with the NS world.
(As for instant armour, I like that about NS, you dont actually put the armour on, you simply pickup a nano-representation, which instantly reforms around your body, and encases you in the item)
Those are some great points cthulhu. I never thought it might be good overall for the commander to be able to force people to pick up HA or JP. Requiring the player to pick it up themselves does bring the opportunity for more and less tomfoolery... I still think requiring 3 seconds to don the armor or JP is a good thing, and just seems more fitting. Buildings don't build instantly, not sure how HA and JP, which are probably much more complicated than a resource nozzle yet the same cost, deploy around you instantly.
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