Being somewhat annoyed at the concept of being digested as soon as I spawn (combat), I have a suggestion to make digest a little trickier to use.
I suggest making digest only successful if a mrine has been damaged to a suitable level, say at least 25% damaged before you are allowed to gobble up a marine whole.
This might give marines a chance to take an onos down, or at least damage it while it is goring thema little to make them digest targets, or encourage onos to take skulks with them to soften the heavies up a little before dining on them.
Ideas welcomed.
Full Version: Onos Digest Nerf
Unknown Worlds Forums > Natural Selection > Natural Selection Discussion > Ideas and Suggestions Forum > Ideas for future versions
Don't nerf the poor no-combat onos.
It's already tricker to 100% successful devour a marine.
It's already tricker to 100% successful devour a marine.
No it isn't, in one game of combat last night, I was in heavy armour and the only guy that ever killed me was this one guy that didn't bother to do anything except devour me!
Every single attempt he did as he came near me was ** STOMP ** GOBBLE** and I get to stare at the red screen and then wait to respawn. I unload my HMG into him, my team around me unloads into him (they probably had low grade weaponry), but I would never get a chance to actually PLAY the game!
If he had to gore me a little before devouring me it might balance things out a bit, or encourage him to stay with his team.
Devouring is not hard. This guy got me on every attempt. He did not need more than one attack to gobble me. It cannot be hard, once you have mastered it!
Every single attempt he did as he came near me was ** STOMP ** GOBBLE** and I get to stare at the red screen and then wait to respawn. I unload my HMG into him, my team around me unloads into him (they probably had low grade weaponry), but I would never get a chance to actually PLAY the game!
If he had to gore me a little before devouring me it might balance things out a bit, or encourage him to stay with his team.
Devouring is not hard. This guy got me on every attempt. He did not need more than one attack to gobble me. It cannot be hard, once you have mastered it!
Maybe 10%.
Maybe 1%! who cares, as long as devouring undamaged marines is not allowed, I'd be happy.
The devs can pick the numbers.
The devs can pick the numbers.
Try to devour a marine who swing a knife... I have less than 5% chance.
But for some reason, i have more than 75% chance to devour a JP who fly near me
But for some reason, i have more than 75% chance to devour a JP who fly near me
It's because knockback is pushing the Onos back, which is silly, but beside the point.
If a marine, even an HA was using a knife on me as an Onos, I'd just gore the bugger,
If a marine, even an HA was using a knife on me as an Onos, I'd just gore the bugger,
| QUOTE |
| Devouring is not hard. This guy got me on every attempt. He did not need more than one attack to gobble me. It cannot be hard, once you have mastered it! |
The trick to 'mastering' devour is using a crosshair for it. i.e. cheating.
| QUOTE (Soylent green @ Oct 20 2004, 08:13 PM) | ||
The trick to 'mastering' devour is using a crosshair for it. i.e. cheating. |
Nah, just aim your mouse down. It improves devour chances greatly.
I used to suck at devour, but then i just started aiming for HA's feet and my success rate shot through the roof.
Devouring in combat is just out of hand. They should have a cooldown time or something for devour. Or make it so that in combat, you can't devour heavies... which would actually give them some mild usefulness in combat. As of right now, devour is like a railgun... instakill. Possibly having it so when you get devoured, you die as quick as you do now, but not allow the onos to redevour until the time it takes to fully digest a marine in normal NS. NANITES!!11
i hate devour, so my vote for nerfing is always yes.
i do like this idea a little more than the others... you need to damage them.. so, then take out stomp damage, so they cant just lame that until you get to desired health.
and, make it like almost nearly impossible to digest JPs...
i get digested more as JP than anything else..
the leaping digestion really really bothers me.
i do like this idea a little more than the others... you need to damage them.. so, then take out stomp damage, so they cant just lame that until you get to desired health.
and, make it like almost nearly impossible to digest JPs...
i get digested more as JP than anything else..
the leaping digestion really really bothers me.
The problem this would cause though is how would you know if they were sufficently damaged. You could think they weren't damaged enough when all that happened was you missed, or you might think you missed when you still needed to cause more damage.
I don't like this idea, like i said in the other onos digest post, its an onos, the highest of kharaa lifeforms, it should be able to have a one shot kill weapon.
I don't like this idea, like i said in the other onos digest post, its an onos, the highest of kharaa lifeforms, it should be able to have a one shot kill weapon.
| QUOTE (Kester @ Oct 20 2004, 09:54 PM) |
| The problem this would cause though is how would you know if they were sufficently damaged. You could think they weren't damaged enough when all that happened was you missed, or you might think you missed when you still needed to cause more damage. I don't like this idea, like i said in the other onos digest post, its an onos, the highest of kharaa lifeforms, it should be able to have a one shot kill weapon. |
There are 'ineffective' welding noises, you could have some sort of audio indicator to say 'no devour, not damaged enough'
If we nerfed the aliens any more, half of the players who play NS will come whinning and scraming
"OMG! WE NEED 1 JILLION ONOS ARMOR! DO YOU KNOW HOW HARD IT IS TO GORE A MARINE DOWN TO 25% HEALTH AND THEN EAT HIM?! ITS TOO MUCH WORK! IN ORDER TO DO IT SUCCESSFULLY WE NEED 1 JILLION ARMOR! (I think the number itself is: 1,000,000,000,000,000,000)"
Do you see how things get out of hand? Alien lovers think marines are too powerful and need to be nerfed, and yet when I ask people I play with often, they say we are just equal and fine.
Onos devour stays.
"OMG! WE NEED 1 JILLION ONOS ARMOR! DO YOU KNOW HOW HARD IT IS TO GORE A MARINE DOWN TO 25% HEALTH AND THEN EAT HIM?! ITS TOO MUCH WORK! IN ORDER TO DO IT SUCCESSFULLY WE NEED 1 JILLION ARMOR! (I think the number itself is: 1,000,000,000,000,000,000)"
Do you see how things get out of hand? Alien lovers think marines are too powerful and need to be nerfed, and yet when I ask people I play with often, they say we are just equal and fine.
Onos devour stays.
You misunderstood.
Not reduce them TO 25%, reduce them BY 25%... or about 2-3 gores/swipes/bites for a heavy, 1 for pretty much everyone else.
Not reduce them TO 25%, reduce them BY 25%... or about 2-3 gores/swipes/bites for a heavy, 1 for pretty much everyone else.
| QUOTE (Shazbot @ Oct 20 2004, 08:26 PM) |
| As of right now, devour is like a railgun... instakill. |
Except, oh, I don't know, it's a CLOSE RANGE, SINGLE USE, INACCURATE WEAPON. Comparing devour to a railgun has got to be the most retarded thing to come out of I&S forums.
Stop.crying.about.devour.
1) If you nerf devour in combat, you severely weaken it in classic, which is a no-no. Onos is weak as hell already, it's not going down anymore. The teams are balanced in combat, but whoever tells you classic is balanced in pubs hasn't had the misfortune of playing on servers with new players. It's not pretty
2) By the time an alien gets 4 points in combat, you should also have 4 points. In reality, no one rushes to onos without upgrades....that would be suicide. So, by the time the first onos shows up, there should be multiple lvl1/2 shotties/hmgs on your team.
3) Unless you plan ahead with your team for everyone to get HA and welder, there is no reason to get heavy armor in combat. It slows you down, makes you noisy, and every single onos will be gunning for you. It's nothing personal, it's just the reflex action to devour any and all HA. So if you're one of two HA, don't be surprised to get devoured alot. You should've just got a jetpack. A team of jetpackers rushing the hive wave after wave is nigh-unstoppable.
And @ krimson:
No. Bad boy. You will never say the words "marine weapon" and "one-shot kill" in the same sentence. Ever.
Because unless it costs 200 res, such a weapon can never ever be balanced. It's one weapon that destroys 75 res worth of alien, AND it's reusable/reloadable, AND if the marine holding it dies some other marine can pick it up and keep shooting. It's never ever ever (have I mentioned never?) going into the game. Period.
| QUOTE |
| 2) By the time an alien gets 4 points in combat, you should also have 4 points. In reality, no one rushes to onos without upgrades |
thats the sole resion why I rush it in CO. no one expects it.
Which is exactly why combat is boring. It's just a rush to jetpacks by camping a few spots (wow, sounds like 1.04 doesn't it?) There's another thread in the beta forum talking about beefing HA in combat. It'd help.
| QUOTE (Gecko God Of DOOOM @ Oct 20 2004, 10:44 PM) | ||
thats the sole resion why I rush it in CO. no one expects it. |
Define "rush". How are you gaining points so quickly as an unupgraded skulk and lerk? A base fade, okay, it's easy to get one more point for onos from there, but it's SO much more effective to just keep upgrading the fade....onos without regen, stomp, cara, celerity, even redemption.....eesh.
It might work in combat, but in an ns_ game the comm will probably spam meds to stop his marines getting eaten 
I seriously doubt that, but even if it was the case, he'd be wasting 2 res a pop, and would be probably better of letting them get munched.
My two cents: if you want to nerf digest in classic, perhaps allow beacon to also take back to base the players that are being digested. I believe that it would make sense with the way beacon works.
Other than that, it's not a big problem for marines that stick in groups.
Other than that, it's not a big problem for marines that stick in groups.
@5kyh16h91: my point was, just because you are the highest lifeform of an alien doesnt mean you have to have a one shot kill weapon. going onos in NS is a lot more of a problem than in CO.. it takes a very short while to get an onos in CO.
and, yes, i agree with not having one shot kills for marines. it would be a big bad thing. but, the thing i hate is that an onos (75 res + whatever upgrades... 6ish) can take out like 3 HA/HMG no problem.. whats that.. ha is... 25? hmg is... 15? so, theres 40 times at least 2... and with redemption, your likely to get at least 3 or 4 before dying.. and thats a crappy onos...
but, it takes like 2 good jpers, or more not-so great jpers to take out one onos.
anyways...
i hate devour. but, i would also hate the idea of a marine weapon that was as powerful as devour.
i think something should take place before you can devour.. whether it be they are stunned, or down to below 50% health, whatever.. just something.
and, yes, i agree with not having one shot kills for marines. it would be a big bad thing. but, the thing i hate is that an onos (75 res + whatever upgrades... 6ish) can take out like 3 HA/HMG no problem.. whats that.. ha is... 25? hmg is... 15? so, theres 40 times at least 2... and with redemption, your likely to get at least 3 or 4 before dying.. and thats a crappy onos...
but, it takes like 2 good jpers, or more not-so great jpers to take out one onos.
anyways...
i hate devour. but, i would also hate the idea of a marine weapon that was as powerful as devour.
i think something should take place before you can devour.. whether it be they are stunned, or down to below 50% health, whatever.. just something.
| QUOTE (krimson @ Oct 21 2004, 09:56 AM) |
| @5kyh16h91: my point was, just because you are the highest lifeform of an alien doesnt mean you have to have a one shot kill weapon. going onos in NS is a lot more of a problem than in CO.. it takes a very short while to get an onos in CO. and, yes, i agree with not having one shot kills for marines. it would be a big bad thing. but, the thing i hate is that an onos (75 res + whatever upgrades... 6ish) can take out like 3 HA/HMG no problem.. whats that.. ha is... 25? hmg is... 15? so, theres 40 times at least 2... and with redemption, your likely to get at least 3 or 4 before dying.. and thats a crappy onos... but, it takes like 2 good jpers, or more not-so great jpers to take out one onos. anyways... i hate devour. but, i would also hate the idea of a marine weapon that was as powerful as devour. i think something should take place before you can devour.. whether it be they are stunned, or down to below 50% health, whatever.. just something. |
It takes the same amount of time to go vanilla jp which is the onos counter in combat and a whole team with a jper can easily take down an onos.
He can take out so many HA because thats what he's designed for, and as you said a few jpers can take him down with not much trouble, becuase jpers are an onos counter.
And from experience it takes 1 good jper, or 2 semi decent jper to take down an onos.
For the idea of having them stunned, you would have to have stun as slot 2 and devour as slot 3 otherwise devour couldn't be used until hive 2 as you wouldn't be able to stun them.
| QUOTE (Gneralas @ Oct 21 2004, 07:57 AM) |
| It might work in combat, but in an ns_ game the comm will probably spam meds to stop his marines getting eaten |
armor damage counts as player damage
No. The whole point of devour is to serve as a hard counter to HAs. The onos should be able to run in, grab one, and get away. Right now his health vs. all those weapons is so pathetic that he can barely get in the door alive. There's no reason at all to nerf ANYTHING about the onos, he's become such a pathetic shadow of his former self already.
| QUOTE (5kyh16h91 @ Oct 20 2004, 11:40 PM) | ||
Except, oh, I don't know, it's a CLOSE RANGE, SINGLE USE, INACCURATE WEAPON. Comparing devour to a railgun has got to be the most retarded thing to come out of I&S forums. Stop.crying.about.devour. |
Exaggeration. Thanks for letting me know I'm crying. *cough*
Also, if JP was the true counter to onos, shouldn't they be able to take out an onos easily, and not loose a single guy? As it is now, an onos can take out JP's with their rediculously long gore/devour range easily. I'm talking combat... since the onos can get 950 armor and regen. Which is more than a lv3 HMG clip.
Just make it in combat so you can't get redemption + carapce. Problem solved.
| QUOTE (5kyh16h91 @ Oct 20 2004, 10:46 PM) | ||||
Define "rush". How are you gaining points so quickly as an unupgraded skulk and lerk? A base fade, okay, it's easy to get one more point for onos from there, but it's SO much more effective to just keep upgrading the fade....onos without regen, stomp, cara, celerity, even redemption.....eesh. |
im a decent skulk, a realy good lerk, and great fade. when I get 2 points I lerk, gas gas gas gas gas, then bite bite bite. I usualy get 1 point before my death. then I get a couple kills as a fade, die. turn onos. kill kill kill. its realy not that hard if you ambush in CO.
anyways.
Onos doesn't need a nerf what so ever. If your a heavy, try and let the lights go infront of you and use em as a devour shield if you must.
You can also jump over stomp if you have realy realy realy good timing. Im sorry you had a bad game of "stare at the red screen" but eh.
i still like the tetris idea.
This is what I have to say. Devour is the best weapon for onos!!! By nerfing it, you'll be nerfing the poor onos in classic. If you don't want to be devour'd, travel in a group. Seriously nowadays, combat is training lone-marine-rangers.
I have to admit, marines needs to spread out at the start of a game. However, I see a lot of marines failing to group together when fades starts appearing.
krimson: If you're getting devoured, you're playing NS the wrong way. In both classic and combat, you won't get devoured that much if you just travel in groups. Remember, 2 level3 HMGs can bring an onos down VERY VERY FAST. With the help of cat packs, you can half that time.
I have to admit, marines needs to spread out at the start of a game. However, I see a lot of marines failing to group together when fades starts appearing.
krimson: If you're getting devoured, you're playing NS the wrong way. In both classic and combat, you won't get devoured that much if you just travel in groups. Remember, 2 level3 HMGs can bring an onos down VERY VERY FAST. With the help of cat packs, you can half that time.
OK a few things.. Devour is not like a railgun or anything other weapon similar..
Why??? Because you have a chance to get out provided your team works as a team....
I wish people would stop trying to change the game because they refuse to change their play style... NS is a team game, start working together.. If you want a "I pwn j00" game go play any of the other hundreds of similar games..
AS for the original idea, I'm not directly opposed to having to have some checks on devour, I'm not sure what would work though..
I'll try to clean this thread out and then move it... So don't be surprised if many posts are missing..
Why??? Because you have a chance to get out provided your team works as a team....
I wish people would stop trying to change the game because they refuse to change their play style... NS is a team game, start working together.. If you want a "I pwn j00" game go play any of the other hundreds of similar games..
AS for the original idea, I'm not directly opposed to having to have some checks on devour, I'm not sure what would work though..
I'll try to clean this thread out and then move it... So don't be surprised if many posts are missing..
If this goes in, Devour needs finaly a centered crosshair or you whack the onos with the ultimate nerf-star-destroyer-moon.
.oO(What it would be in any way...)
.oO(What it would be in any way...)
Devour definately needs to be nerfed. Everyone I know either complains about it or exploits the hell out of it.
But I dont think this is the best solution for it... I really like the idea of a cooldown on it though. Maybe 45sec-1min. The message could say: "You are too full to eat anymore."
But I dont think this is the best solution for it... I really like the idea of a cooldown on it though. Maybe 45sec-1min. The message could say: "You are too full to eat anymore."
| QUOTE (hutch @ Oct 23 2004, 08:32 PM) |
| Devour definately needs to be nerfed. Everyone I know either complains about it or exploits the hell out of it. |
How do you expliot devour?
maybe its just me but i like devour as it is
even from the marine side!
plus its very atmospheric an fun devouring/being devoured
but maybe im also the only one playing this game for fun
even from the marine side!
plus its very atmospheric an fun devouring/being devoured
but maybe im also the only one playing this game for fun
I like it. Maybe 10% though.
Didn't we got this in 1.04+?
Marines flame "O M F G remove this nerf that make them weaker bla bla bla" while the people that can live with it and CHANGE THEIR VERY OWN style of playing into the needed new strategys, stay silent and generaly CALM!
I'm so fu**ing bored, disgusted and annoyed by it that I think everyday about just quiting the forums, the game and anything that has to do with NS!
Why? Well... look at the onos for example.
In 1.04 it struck fear into the marines, making the marines go "hooray for the TSA!!" in the readyroom if they managed to kill one (even when the game was lost short after) - since the rework of the hitboxes you could think about sending it into a kindergarten or something to play with the kids and it still gets killed!
F*** YOU, MARINES! Now its MY turn to whine about YOU!
against anything that nerfs aliens.
edit- some reworking.
Marines flame "O M F G remove this nerf that make them weaker bla bla bla" while the people that can live with it and CHANGE THEIR VERY OWN style of playing into the needed new strategys, stay silent and generaly CALM!
I'm so fu**ing bored, disgusted and annoyed by it that I think everyday about just quiting the forums, the game and anything that has to do with NS!
Why? Well... look at the onos for example.
In 1.04 it struck fear into the marines, making the marines go "hooray for the TSA!!" in the readyroom if they managed to kill one (even when the game was lost short after) - since the rework of the hitboxes you could think about sending it into a kindergarten or something to play with the kids and it still gets killed!
F*** YOU, MARINES! Now its MY turn to whine about YOU!
against anything that nerfs aliens.
edit- some reworking.
Ooooooooooooooooooooook.
I would be against this, due to the fact that the onos would have no idea whether or not the marine was devourable or not. Would kind of get lame and I could see many onos giving up trying to devour.
I would be against this, due to the fact that the onos would have no idea whether or not the marine was devourable or not. Would kind of get lame and I could see many onos giving up trying to devour.
i do see people's point on how does an onos tell if the marine is weak...
and, its not that i always get devoured, or that my playind style is whatever, and i wont change it. i hate things like getting devoured as a jp while flying, and the onos jumps and somehow manages to get me in his mouth... anyways.
i hate how these discussions always turn into a nub vs not war, or pub vs clan.
why cant co_ onos be nerfed, and ns_ be... NOT nerfed?
i agree with no HA in combat. you are asking for the onos to eat you and always you. especially since its a hive1 skill, so you always have it.
but i STILL think that you should HAVE to be stunned... thus, JP is a TRUE onos counter. you cant stun a JP, so, you cant devour a jp.
heck, id even say stunned, or webbed...
and, its not that i always get devoured, or that my playind style is whatever, and i wont change it. i hate things like getting devoured as a jp while flying, and the onos jumps and somehow manages to get me in his mouth... anyways.
i hate how these discussions always turn into a nub vs not war, or pub vs clan.
why cant co_ onos be nerfed, and ns_ be... NOT nerfed?
i agree with no HA in combat. you are asking for the onos to eat you and always you. especially since its a hive1 skill, so you always have it.
but i STILL think that you should HAVE to be stunned... thus, JP is a TRUE onos counter. you cant stun a JP, so, you cant devour a jp.
heck, id even say stunned, or webbed...
| QUOTE (RobB @ Oct 24 2004, 11:56 AM) |
| Didn't we got this in 1.04+? Marines flame "O M F G remove this nerf that make them weaker bla bla bla" while the people that can live with it and CHANGE THEIR VERY OWN style of playing into the needed new strategys, stay silent and generaly CALM! I'm so fu**ing bored, disgusted and annoyed by it that I think everyday about just quiting the forums, the game and anything that has to do with NS! Why? Well... look at the onos for example. In 1.04 it struck fear into the marines, making the marines go "hooray for the TSA!!" in the readyroom if they managed to kill one (even when the game was lost short after) - since the rework of the hitboxes you could think about sending it into a kindergarten or something to play with the kids and it still gets killed! F*** YOU, MARINES! Now its MY turn to whine about YOU! against anything that nerfs aliens. edit- some reworking. |
Agreed. Marines just seem to be advantaged in every way. E.g aliens are completely melee until hive 3 (unless you count gorge or lerk) and the sg is the perfect melee counter. End game marines can own end game aliens but end game aliens take forever to kill end game marines. So for the pathetic lifeform that costs 75 res. I vote no do not remove devour.
*me calms down*
How many scripters out there that blink/swipe?
How hard will it be to gore/devour?
Think outside the box, people.
How hard will it be to gore/devour?
Think outside the box, people.
It could be a simply matter of rearranging the abilities-
1)Gore
2)Charge
3)Stomp
4)Devour
Devour could be a hive 3 ability (1 hit KO?!?)
Stomp makes an okay hive 2 ability (Immobilze a squad of marines for a long time)
And Charge... just plain sucks.
1)Gore
2)Charge
3)Stomp
4)Devour
Devour could be a hive 3 ability (1 hit KO?!?)
Stomp makes an okay hive 2 ability (Immobilze a squad of marines for a long time)
And Charge... just plain sucks.
onos is too damned big already. u cant make him any worse. i mean, how can u miss him?
Charge at 1 hive. Interesting idea. It would allow an onos to get away, but it would also require it to plan ahead and make sure it has enough energy. Stomp still allows an onos to counter HA at 2 hives.
Take it to the abilities thread...
I don't like this idea at all. It's way too unpredictable; there's no easy way to determine whether or not the marine is damaged. Even if you make it so they can tell when it failed, the Onos has to put his neck on the line to devour a shotty/HMG, and if he messes up then he could be dead. This would be a huge nerf to devour; on the contrary to what you want to achieve, it would make Onoses only use Devour in safe circumstances, i.e. when they don't need it.
I don't like this idea at all. It's way too unpredictable; there's no easy way to determine whether or not the marine is damaged. Even if you make it so they can tell when it failed, the Onos has to put his neck on the line to devour a shotty/HMG, and if he messes up then he could be dead. This would be a huge nerf to devour; on the contrary to what you want to achieve, it would make Onoses only use Devour in safe circumstances, i.e. when they don't need it.
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