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Unknown Worlds Forums > Natural Selection > Natural Selection Discussion > Ideas and Suggestions Forum > Ideas for future versions
A_Boojum_Snark
Although some other 3rd hive abilities are in more need of a boost, this idea came to me the other day while playing, and since then I've developed the idea into two methods.
What if xenocide did more damage depending on how much res you had?

Method 1:
For example each res point could add 1.5 damage on, so if you are blowing yourself up with 100 res your xenocide would do 350 damage at the center opposed to 200. However this probably sould not use the res, or any percentage of it, as that would make xenocide less used.

Method 2:
In this method it would use res, however it would do MUCH more damage than the not-costing version. I'm thinking about 8 additional damage for each res. How this would work so that people dont have there res pool murdered in situations where it isnt an attack-the-alamo game, is that you would hold down the attack button to "charge" xenocide. As you charge it your res would drain rapidly, much like blink, but not quite so fast. This way if you dont wanna spend any res (maybe 1 or 2 would get used) you can just tap the key. If you choose to risk the res as a massive base-breaker and use all 100 of your res, the before mentioned damage addition would make you do a 1,000 damage xenocide, well worth the cost in my mind.
*edit* I forgot to add that this wouldn't allow you to instantly release the button and explode, when you release the button the current 3 (?) second timer/scream/adren usage would start.

If anything is confusing just say and I'll try my best to clarify. smile-fix.gif
Faskalia
If i die while xenociding all my res might be lost, right?
A_Boojum_Snark
If you charged up all the way using method 2, yes. I see that as an acceptable risk considering the massive damage it would do.
the_x5
I'm worried about the idea as you suggested as of encouraging resource hoarding, which is bad.

How about the following edit:
Increase blast radius
Increase knockback magnitude
Double the damage dealt to structures, that is if the HP isn't cut down 50% as I suggested in Talesin's thread.

That would accomplish all of your desired effects and well as having an inverse effect on res hoarding. The explosion is also more realistic and crazier.
A_Boojum_Snark
Except that those ideas would effect combat (personally I couldn't care less about combat) and as we all know xenocide is quite nasty already in that and is one of the reasons 3rd hive ability was made 2 points. By using res as a damage factor it eliminates the combat problem since you have no res there.

Also, increasing the range and knockback doesnt really make it much better, I'm trying to make it do more damage to individual marines, as if I recall correctly an armor 2 marine with full health is unkillable with a single xeno.

On the res hoarding issue, I HIGHLY doubt it. Res hoarding all the way to hive 3? They would probably go onos by then. If it is hive 3 already I don't think res hoarding applies, considering most likely res will be flowing in like mad. (join a game on aliens side when they are breaking the end-game turtle, you'll have 100 res within 3 ticks)
the_x5
QUOTE (A Boojum Snark @ Oct 12 2004, 12:51 PM)
Except that those ideas would effect combat (personally I couldn't care less about combat) and as we all know xenocide is quite nasty already in that and is one of the reasons 3rd hive ability was made 2 points. By using res as a damage factor it eliminates the combat problem since you have no res there.

Ditto on the highlighted. I tried in vain to get them to throw out the combat but alas they had already coded much of it and were not abotu to toss all that hard work. The faded game industry excuse of a "bridge" is notorious for meaning: Because I felt like doing it ****. tounge.gif People come to NS because it is different, not because it is just another Team DM. Newbie training mean special newbie trainign maps and servers, not a new type of game play. I only agreed to shutup under the conditions that allowing co_ would mean that the "brat clans" would be appeased by this quick scrim gameplay. But Flayra forgot two things:[/list]
[*]Seperating conflicting varibles
[*]Buffing things up so the gameplay would be capped or be shorter with less powershifts and effectively killing the epicness that had made NS a popular mod.[/list]
Whether he did or didn't do this intentionally is a subject of controversy.

Anyways I'm off topic, you are right about it causing issues in combat and this is one of those examples of where we need to sever the values of certain varibles from being shared by both co_ and ns_. They both need different values for these varibles in order to work correctly.

QUOTE
Also, increasing the range and knockback doesnt really make it much better, I'm trying to make it do more damage to individual marines, as if I recall correctly an armor 2 marine with full health is unkillable with a single xeno.

Agreed, but a more powerful knockback or tilting of the screen (like you have been knocked completely over) helps add immersion and cool effects. (no to mention it should be somewhat disorienting)

QUOTE
On the res hoarding issue, I HIGHLY doubt it. Res hoarding all the way to hive 3? They would probably go onos by then. If it is hive 3 already I don't think res hoarding applies, considering most likely res will be flowing in like mad. (join a game on aliens side when they are breaking the end-game turtle, you'll have 100 res within 3 ticks)

Hmm... You have a point there. If aliens have all 3 hives usually they contol the vast majority of the map.

smile-fix.gif Ok, you get my "yes" vote as long as you can remember to be wary of res hoarding issues. For as we all know, res hoarding is the #1 reason why aliens loose. (besides and including the lack of teamwork and skill of course)

*vote yes*
BobTheJanitor
Interesting. I've heard it pointed out before that hive three abilities shouldn't be TOO powerful, as 3 hives doesn't mean total map control, it really only means you control three rooms in the map. The marines could, in theory, control everything else. This sort of xeno would indicate that you had total area and res control, and that you should probably be winning the game soon.
NEO_Phyte
QUOTE (BobTheJanitor @ Oct 12 2004, 12:48 PM)
Interesting. I've heard it pointed out before that hive three abilities shouldn't be TOO powerful, as 3 hives doesn't mean total map control, it really only means you control three rooms in the map. The marines could, in theory, control everything else. This sort of xeno would indicate that you had total area and res control, and that you should probably be winning the game soon.

if rines have everything else, the aliens WONT have 3 hives unless the rine team is a group of "mentally challenged" individuals
theclam
Why does xeno need to be boosted? They way it is now is already very powerful. I can still get 5 or 6 kills at a time with xeno every once in a while.
monopolowa
I like the "charge up at the cost of 8 res" idea, but most bomber skulks like to activate xeno, then leap so they can get into the middle of the marines...not sure how well this would work - maybe charge xeno and it activates when you let go of the attack?

Note- this would have no effect on combat, as there is no res to spend there.

This is a good idea for speeding up endgame standoffs. Skulks will already be spending 4 res on celerity and carapace to ensure they survive, so a larger blast would cost a skulk 12 res per life. Maybe increase the cost to 11 (15 res with upgrades) to offset the extra rfk?
A_Boojum_Snark
You are mis-reading it, sithlord. Each res point you spend would add 8 damage, so you could spend a total of 100 res to xenocide, doing 1,000 damage (200 base + 100*8).
How much res is spend depends on how long the button is held down. (think of how holding blink drains adrenaline, holding attack with this will drain res)
monopolowa
hm.. I thought you meant they could spend up to 8-10 res to beef up xeno...I wouldnt mind this, but dont like the idea of spending more than that. What if you're not in position to xeno yet? do you have to spend more res to delay the attack while you get ready? or do you just blow up early and lose res, without hurting anything.

I could see it doing up to 50-100% more damage than it does now, because with a high enough cost you can't do it endlessly, but it will still end the game faster

I don't see how this could work without people often spending more than they want to...if the attack takes a longer time to charge, it requires better timing for the skulk, and if it's a shorter time, you wont spend the amount you planned to
A_Boojum_Snark
Thats the cost you would have to pay to get this boost, having to time everything right.

Don't forget about my first method that is a smaller passive boost according to total res and does not spend anything and has no special button-pressing.
Zek
QUOTE (theclam @ Oct 12 2004, 02:56 PM)
Why does xeno need to be boosted? They way it is now is already very powerful. I can still get 5 or 6 kills at a time with xeno every once in a while.

Because that only happens in a very large group of wounded marines. The skulk's penultimate ability, which sacrifices his own life for the sake of damage, can't even kill an LA at point blank at that point in the game. It's certainly one of the better hive 3 abilities, but it still doesn't justify the effort involved in getting it.
Crono5
Go Onos or try a 1,000 damage point Xenocide?

I like it.

Oh, and if Marines controlled everything else in the map, then I don't think Aliens would have enough resources to make this completely effective. And if the Marines decided it was a good idea to LET them get 3 hives, then, well, they deserve it.
Ripur
i can't really see a downside to your suggestion. everytime i've gotten all three hives in a game, aliens controled the hives, all the rooms in sieging distance, and dbl, just becuase it tends to be in the middle. In those games, aliens took several hours to crack the base, if the com didn't recycle that is.

I like this idea, and would use it often becuase i don't enjoy playing Onos or Fades, but i could still be really usefull for my team.
semi
Heres the problem. Xeno does 2x damage to structures (or is that 4x? Its been way too long since I played a good game of combat).

1000dmg * 2 = 2000dmg to structures. Screw killing people, xeno on top of an IP for the win.


jammno
What's to stop 3-6 skulks from res whoring when the rest have the map under control, then just nuking the marine start?

Also, what's to stop a single skulk from insta-gibbing a heavy train?

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