the_x5
Sep 30 2004, 02:15 AM
Come on. Who doesn't love them?

They're squishy when you step on them.
Why?
- adds atmosphere
- makes sense, the AENC and mycelium can't be everwhere and the shear ammount of nutrients and matter that needs transportation some times needs little carriers
- creates new openings for functionality
- makes the collective more "alive"
- doesn't tax on system resources
- allows the new artist to try out his skills
What's a "roach"?
Remember those little cockroaches in the Office COmplex level in the orginal Half-Life? Well, add a few of those ultra-simple critters scurrying about in the NS hives and they'll go a long way to improve the "living infestation" feel of the game.
What's a "chumtoad"?
One of the unused models from the orginal Half-Life. I have a working model with code from the Heart of Evil mod.
Suggestions?
RiotingNerd
Sep 30 2004, 02:16 AM
Now this idea sounds mostly harmless. Only problem I have is the fact that NS already uses up cpu cycles like a mofo, and adding to them is never really a good idea.
the_x5
Sep 30 2004, 02:20 AM
| QUOTE (RiotingNerd @ Sep 29 2004, 09:16 PM) |
| Now this idea sounds mostly harmless. Only problem I have is the fact that NS already uses up cpu cycles like a mofo, and adding to them is never really a good idea. |
Then to be safe only use special NS version of roaches. They are 5 polygons (i think) and have extremely simple AI with pauses. That is about as low on system resources as you can go.
The Heart of Evil chumtoad isn't much either.
Like 4 roaches per hive and one chumtoad if you have three? They spawn only when there is a hive and if that hive goes down they disappear. Like that?
AvengerX
Sep 30 2004, 02:39 AM
sounds good, it'd add to the whole feel...I like it
the_x5
Sep 30 2004, 02:48 AM
WooT!

Alright! After five misses I finally score a home run with some of my toughest critics.
Thanx guys. Any additional suggestion or collaries would be appreciated.
hmm...
We could code it to where the alien team can't "step on" them but marines can. I can already see someone telling a newbie to make sure he kills all of the roaches but they keep respawning. (because each hive's monster spawn retains 4 max_live_children) Kinda like how I told this one server at the restaurant where I work at to empty all of the hot water from the coffee machine. (you can't it refils from the water line) He spend like 15 min working on it before we finally felt bad and stopped him.
schkorpio
Sep 30 2004, 02:49 AM
i really loved those little guys!
dunno if its possible but , how about they only move and run when there is free cpu cycles?
Redford
Sep 30 2004, 02:57 AM
As a general rule, NS is a total conversion. Thusly, we do not steal elements from Half-life to use in our mod. Adding chumtoads and roaches would make no sense, because these are either spaceships (and thusly, would have no reason to have roaches or chumtoads) or space stations (ditto). In addition, there would be no reason why chumtoads would be in the NS universe other then "Chumtoads look cool omg let's add them to NS!"
In ADDITION, chumtoads and roaches would be considered monsters, and as monsters they would be considered ents, and ALL NS maps are currently under very strict ent limits to keep server usage down and to allow NS to work. This is because whenever the commander drops anything, even a medpack he creates an ent. Adding chumtoads and roaches would simply add pointless meaningless entinites to maps without giving anything back.
And THAT is why you'll never see chumtoads nor roaches. It makes no sense, it doesn't fit the story, it doesn't fit as a total conversion, and it doesn't make much sense from a technical standpoint either.
Faskalia
Sep 30 2004, 07:53 AM
I would love to see them.
And when you step on them the hivemind should say"Creature under attack".
Serious though: Do they serve any purpose, but slowing the server down?
Avs
Sep 30 2004, 08:42 AM
All I'd be doing is trying to step on them...seriously. Or eating them as a snack on aliens. Seriously.
BlueNovember
Sep 30 2004, 11:08 AM
| QUOTE (RiotingNerd @ Sep 29 2004, 09:16 PM) |
| Now this idea sounds mostly harmless. Only problem I have is the fact that NS already uses up cpu cycles like a mofo, and adding to them is never really a good idea. |
/me grins.
Make them client side.

It does not really matter if marine A steps on different roaches to marine B, so synchronisation is not an issue. It would use Client CPU time only, (and very little at that, as it would not need to put roaches all over the map, just in the vicinity).
Thumbs up.
(No hive mind alterations though, and remove them from the Kharaa side of things.)
RobB
Sep 30 2004, 01:35 PM
a) you would have to pack everything under controlled circumstances (ultra clean GMP Facilitys), which is freakin expensive. reading the fluff (background story) will tell you, that the companys don't have enough credits for that. so its only reasonal that there are this small dirtbags - i mean roaches. i dont know what a chumtoad is - maybe this violet beasts with one eye? my favorite server has a readyroom plugin to change yourself into one.
b) if they are serverside, they could detect enemy movement in the hive - step on one, and you have the whole alienteam on your ashs...
and/or it would be possible to let them crawl on the marine's hud... these critters are realy annoing in reality. they even bite babys (i heared that they gnawl on adults, too).
the_x5
Sep 30 2004, 01:48 PM
| QUOTE (Faskalia @ Sep 30 2004, 02:53 AM) |
| Serious though: Do they serve any purpose, but slowing the server down? |
Logic from NS universe standpoint: the AENC and mycelium can't be everwhere and the shear ammount of nutrients and matter that needs transportation some times needs little carriers
And besides every time you guys say it bogs down performance that is such an insignifigant argument. Really. If you can't spare a few kilobytes or two of memory you have more serious problems to deal with.
| QUOTE |
| make them client side |
That would be nifty, everyone would see different roaches in different locations
for chumtoads:
*Points to Heart of Evil mod.* They didn't steal because Valve for one never produced the critter and for two we are all under the property rights of Valve. We just can't rip things directly off of other games.
for roaches:
Similar points as the chumtoads, but there's no reason the roaches can't be customized into something unique.
Besides Zunni said he wanted to put the new artist to work.
~edit~
Ooh cool idea:
either:
the roaches show up on motion tracking, which causes confusion. (is that the onos or just another roach)
-or-
they dont, in which case you won't know when the hive is up but if they can "see" you you will show up on hivesight. "Omg h4x!"
PS: my # suggestion are certainly subject to change, maybe somethign you can control though a server or client .cfg file varible?
Zunni
Sep 30 2004, 02:10 PM
I'm not opposed to this, it's mostly harmless, and may explain a little about how aliens survived until the humans arrived on the space station.
Provided any technical obsticles can be overcome.
Kalias
Sep 30 2004, 02:34 PM
I'd suggest keeping them completely client side and having no effect on gameplay at all.
I'd also suggest allowing them into other areas than hives... but have a larger concentration of them in hive rooms.
Suggested implementation: When you enter a map 'zone' several roaches are generated on the client in the same zone, as you enter another zone all roaches in other zones are destroyed (not killed... we don't want to hear them squish every time we leave an area... completely remove them). If possible only remove them when they are a certain distance from a player, far enough away to stop players noticing. (possibly removing them when they are hidden from view in a different zone as well... run a trace between the player and roach every few seconds or something.)
the_x5
Sep 30 2004, 02:35 PM
| QUOTE (Zunni @ Sep 30 2004, 09:10 AM) |
| Provided any technical obsticles can be overcome. |
Shouldn't be hard. Even I know enough to code a roaches AI.

Modelling isn't hard because I don't think it has any "bones" either.
cookman
Sep 30 2004, 04:01 PM
Can anyone upload a picture of those chumtoads?
RobB
Sep 30 2004, 04:30 PM

this are the chums, and this are the beasts you can zap into in psix's readyroom plugin
the_x5
Sep 30 2004, 09:49 PM
Ain't it cute?
Ok, now someone post some pics of the roaches so we can marvel at their low system resource using 5 polygon-ness.
~edit~
And a pic of a chumtoad with it's toung out cause you setpped on it. (they squeak when you stem on them)
I can already hear people laughing when you get the "now we dance thing" and a little chumtoad spawns. He's the victory mascot for the aliens.
the_x5
Sep 30 2004, 09:59 PM
class CChumtoad:public CBaseMonster
{
// METHODS
public:
void Spawn( void );
void Precache( void );
};
LINK_ENTITY_TO_CLASS( monster_chumtoad, CChumtoad );
void CChumtoad::Spawn()
{
Precache();
SET_MODEL(ENT(pev), "models/chumtoad.mdl");
UTIL_SetSize(pev, Vector(-12, -12, 0), Vector(12, 12, 24));
pev->solid = SOLID_SLIDEBOX;
pev->movetype = MOVETYPE_STEP;
m_bloodColor = BLOOD_COLOR_GREEN;
pev->health = gSkillData.chumtoadHealth;
pev->view_ofs = Vector ( 0, 0, 20 );
pev->yaw_speed = 5;
m_flFieldOfView = 0.5;
m_MonsterState = MONSTERSTATE_NONE;
MonsterInit();
}
void CChumtoad::Precache()
{
PRECACHE_MODEL("models/chumtoad.mdl");
}http://www.planethalflife.com/hlsdk2/sdk/n...er_chumtoad.htmhttp://www.planethalflife.com/hlprogramming/tutorials.asphttp://www.planethalflife.com/heartofevil/screenshots.asphttp://www.thewall.de/tutorial.php?action=view&id=43
A_Boojum_Snark
Oct 30 2004, 07:35 PM
Looks like 12 polygons actually

4 for body + 6 legs + 2 antenna
and it does have bones, cause the legs and antenna wiggle.
the antennas are actually the same length, the viewing angle makes it look otherwise.
KeksImperium
Oct 30 2004, 07:39 PM
yay!
how comes i miss this thread until now?
*thumbs up!*
the_x5
Oct 30 2004, 07:59 PM
Obviously the NS versions of these will have different skins to keep them in-theme with the rest of the collective, which would be done (as Zunni stated) by the new NS team's artist.
*request for bump into "next version" forum*
theclam
Oct 30 2004, 08:41 PM
I don't see any reason to force players or servers to use something that doesn't contribute to the gameplay. It shouldn't even be server side. If it was an option in the menu for players to toggle them on or off, then I would agree to this idea. Otherwise, I don't see why unecessary graphics should be added if they slow down the game, even if the slowdown is small.
Commander_JAG
Oct 30 2004, 09:14 PM
As long as they are alien roachs spawned by the bacteria.
If I remeber right the bacteria over time will kill anything alive in the ship. Like a Khaara might miss a bug but the bacteria wouldnt.
But I could be off my rocker.
DragonMech
Oct 30 2004, 10:34 PM
| QUOTE |
the roaches show up on motion tracking, which causes confusion. (is that the onos or just another roach) |
I really like this idea. When I first started playing AvP2 I freaked out every time I opened a door - I though two aliens were about to pounce on me. It took me a mission or two (or four... XD) to learn that doors and such also showed up on MT.
KeksImperium
Oct 31 2004, 08:37 AM
| QUOTE (theclam @ Oct 30 2004, 10:41 PM) |
| I don't see any reason to force players or servers to use something that doesn't contribute to the gameplay. |
it contributes atmosphere to the gameplay

but i guess your the type of gamer, raising gama to max and turning all details off for a better frag rate

| QUOTE |
| I really like this idea. When I first started playing AvP2 I freaked out every time I opened a door - I though two aliens were about to pounce on me. It took me a mission or two (or four... XD) to learn that doors and such also showed up on MT. |
and THAT gives me an idea
theclam
Oct 31 2004, 05:52 PM
| QUOTE |
it contributes atmosphere to the gameplay but i guess your the type of gamer, raising gama to max and turning all details off for a better frag rate |
Atmosphere and immersion are not attributes that improve gameplay. I remember playing back in the days, where graphics sucked but the gameplay was good enough to cause immersion and atmosphere.
No, I'm not the kind of gamer who turns all details off and raises gamma to the max. However, I do realize what happens when you add dozens (and it would have to be dozens or you would rarely see them) of entities to the game. Sure, the AI is simple. However, would they die when you step on them? Shoot them? Would they respawn, or stay dead? Those are all things that would tax a computer while not making gameplay any better. That is why they should be client side (after all, NS servers can take 60-80% of a 3ghz machine with a few plugins) and optional. That way, people with good computers can turn them on, and people with bad computers or people who like to "raise gama[sic] to max and [turn] all details off for a better frag rate" can turn them off. I don't see any reason to force them to use them. It's like forcing people to use models with a minimum poly count, because low poly count models make the game have less atmosphere.
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