This forum is for discussion of the lerks abilities, bring back spike? This is where it gets talked about.

this is what most people would want, Spike on the lerk, it was a good ability and was very useful for taking out Turret Factories, or taking down an enemy at long range, Primal scream doesnt get used and is near to usless, put spike shooter in last slot and replace primal scream

Meh, I don't really want spike any more.

Lerk attacks:

Bite: Same as now.

Bilebomb: 40 damage to marines, 80 damage to structures. Removed from the gorge. 15% energy. RoF: 1.3/second. Instead of being launched like the current gorge bilebomb, it is dropped straight down. This allows more hit-run bilebombing, but also makes bilebomb harder to learn and master.

Spores: 13 damage/second (up from 7/second at hive 1). Otherwise same as now.

Lerk umbra: Blocks 3/4 bullets again. This is not unbalanced, being a hive 3 ability. Lasts for 5 seconds. Uses 35% energy. RoF: 1/second.

I would like to see spike back too instead of primal scream, or put it in slot3 and put umbra to slot4, umbra isn't used that much.

I'd like spikes instead of spores. Personaly I don't find spores to be all that usefull due to their low damage and inability to damage buildings/HA.

umbra is one of the most usefull abilitys for a lerk, its just under used...

a) allows onos a prayer of taking on hmgs( maybe)

b) gives skulks a big boost( they need to be "hit" more, which since their a smaller target, makes a diffrece.)

c) lets relative noobs be usefull without geting owned and still learning to be a lerk.

the problem is that most alein players aren't that team oriented, so it soesn't get used much.

Umbra is too difficult to use effectively to have such low absorption. Leave it at 50%, but increase its radius and/or its duration so that mobile targets can stay in it for more than half a second.

Alternately, aliens could retain the umbra effect for a second or two after they leave the cloud. This way Umbra is still useful no matter how fast the target is moving, as long as they enter the cloud once in a while. It would actually be used for blinking Fades and leaping Skulks for once.

As for Primal Scream, I think it would be fine if its radius were increased a bit and its duration at least doubled. Right now, maintaining Primal Scream indefinitely means the Lerk has to sit in one place and devote almost all of his energy to it. There's no reason it should be so limited for a Hive 3 weapon.

The lerk abilities are fine as they are. Spikes simply mean you'll see random lerks on every server trying to spike down rts and tfacs. Lerks are not meant to kill structures, and with the current flight model it would be quite difficult to attack marines while flying with spike, it would look like a strafing run. Please for the sake of the game ignore ideas that revolve around making the lerk a structure killer. The lerk doesn't need a poopbomb, it doesn't need spikes, it's attacks are perfectly fine as it is. Improve the ways the lerk can fly (I'd consider this a pretty important ability, flight that is). I remember reading in the bugtracker that the lerk was supposed to fly backwards as well as forwards. Fix that, and don't cause the lerk to lose speed when it turns in-flight. Those two changes would add a lot more dynamics to the flight model. Also consider giving the first 2 flaps free of energy cost. The first one is already free if you jump without holding forward, and then two more puts you at full speed. The problem right now is if you're out of adrenaline and in a fight, you're probably going to die because you stall out in midair with no adren, flight won't work at all. Giving 1-2 free flaps will solve that, without introducing the pancaking problem again (maybe cap the free flaps below a certain speed, this would allow it to do them while not being able to speed up and still get free flaps).

I favor the v1.04 lerk myself
For the young ones or those with bad memories the attack order was
Slot 1- Bite (same as skulks)
Slot 2- Spike
Slot 3- Umbra (appeared around the skulk only, blocked 3/4 bullets)
slot 4- Spore (i don't recall the damage, i think it was 20/tick, but it kicked alot of ****)

The lerk owned lone rines and could pick apart small groups if the rines didn't watch themselves

A couple of changes could help things out though
s1- Bite (weak- around 50~60)
s2- Spike
s3- Spore (stronger and covers larger area)
s4- Umbra (uber leet umbra- 3/4 bullets and 1/2 explosion damage)

This attack set up plus a flgiht system that allowed for backwards flight would let skilled flyiers be a nightmare on early and mid game rines, plus it works wounders against a shottie rush. Moving Umbra back to the 4th slot would justify it being stronger/larger/longer lasting. This would give aliens a very strong tool in final base cracking.
If you worry that people would waste time spiking structures, make spike piercing and do 1/2 damage to structures like HMGs. Even newbs would see how pointless that would be and stop.

I feel the above weapons layout would make for a lifeform very adapt at killing rines, but fall short in the ability to attak outposts. With out Umbra at hive 2, lerks would be torn up by turrets.

If the attack is gimpy enough, even newbs won't waste time with it. When was the last time you saw a gorge try to spit down a structure? few and far between. I've watched newb pubbers try that for about 10 seconds, go 'this sux' and run off to do something else. at 1/2 damage the spike would do about the same damage over time as spit. it there for stands to reason that either the lerk will go do something more usefull or try to bite it.
Further more, if you inform new players about the intricacies of the game via tutorial or upto date manual, you remove alot of the frustration with NS right off the bat.

anyone remeber the auto targeting alien cannon from original half life?

why not a weapon based on that?

i mean some small flesh borer beeltes fired by the lerk
auto seeking their enemies...

since its a hive 3 weapon it should make heavy dmg
lets say 15 - 30 per beetle and one beetle cost 10% energy

Would be way too strong, cause you could take out a single marine witheout aiming.
It would be great for NS though but ruin Combat completely.
A LVL 5 alien would be able to be a Xenoskulk, an Onos, or a homing bio-rockets killer bird of doom.
Implement it and rines will never win any combat game again.

oh...

im sure you figured i never play combat

damn

i like the idea because it fits the lerk...

stupid combat alwasy getting in the way. :;grumbles::

The heatseeking beetle spikes would be fun. Would they seek out structures if no mareins are around? or just fly forward?

after reading these replys i came up with and idea. since so many people like combat lerks can so many people like support lerks why cant there be 2 classes of lerks? then we would all be happy!

Class one: support

1. bite: same as now
2.spores: add 2 more damage to how it is now.
3. sporemine! just like the plugin one. i dont know the damage..
4. 3/4 umbra lasting 5 seconds.

Class two: combat lerk

1. bite with 5 more damage. same RoF as current lerk.
2.spikes, 30 damage?
3.Bile bomb: gorge doesnt lose his, 100 damage to structures, 40 to marines
4. swoop attack. does 20 damage. lerk swoops down then you click the attack button right when the lerk hits the marines head. the lerks feet ram right into the marines face. it disoriants the marine like a flashbang in CS source for 3 seconds.
you can only use swoop attack once per 10 seconds to prevent spamming.

damages subject to change.

there problem solved!

My two cents:

Hive One:

Bite

-Same as now

Spikes

-Spikes 45 damage, ROF and energy similar to gorge's spit

Hive Two:

Vile Gas

-Spores, same as now (green)

Hive Three:

Upgrade to Vile Gas

-Combined Spores and Umbra (purple)

Dive

-When a lerk is in the air, they select dive and hit attack. They fly quickly in a stright line until they hit something (edit: unable to change direction left/right or up/down). Damage is calculated by: 100 + (x * 100) with X equaling how long in flight. So if a lerk is in flight for 2 seconds they would do 300 damage on contact. (Probaly explained this wrong)

Maximum amount damage that can be done is 600; over 600, extra damage is split between lerk and whatever is hit. So 1000 damage, 600 damage is done to whatever it hits, another 200 is is done to whatever it hits, and the last 200 is done to the lerk.

Damage is done at point of impact, even if nothing is there. Hit the wall after 10 seconds, you got a big splat on the wall.

I can't believe this idea hasn't been mentioned already:

LERK PERCH!

Hit crouch, and your lerk sticks to the next wall/ceiling he runs into and is immobile (except turning) until crouch is released.

don't touch my lerk.

slot1 : bite
slot2 : spores
slot3 : umbra
slot4 : who cares

but you will not touch those first three ok thanks

lerk lift although it seems useless might be worth implementing. i can think of a few situations at two hives where a gorge can't get to a good bilebomb position without lerklift, or a long trip with a skulk. [viaduct on nothing for example.]

Lerk should be able to fly backwards, or at least hover, for this setup.

Hive 0 - Bite: As is currently.

Hive 1 - Spikes: 2.0 spikes, same 16 damage, same 4/second, 5% energy each.

Hive 2 - Umbra: blocks 2/3rd bullets, lasts 4 seconds.

Hive 3 - Spores: 25 damage a second.

Bringing spikes back to the Lerk will let it attack from far away in safety when marines are grouped down a long hall, and can focus his bites to kill marines up close, or just use the normal bite. Also, bite can kill structures alot faster than spikes.

Umbra will stay hive 2 in case marines relocate to the third hive.

Spores is hive three mainly because I made it more powerful. This way you can spore an armory of newly spawned marines adn kill them quickly and efficiently. However, if the marines are advanced enough, there will be HA, rendering spores useless. Basicly, it punishes marines if they don't have HA by the third hive, lol.

spores is better then spikes in 90% of situations. and i find bite often can win the game, either killing a rambo phasegate, or even guarding the hive when shottys are rushing in

not to mention how helpful umbra is with higher lifeforms and against shotgun rushes.

seirously, giving lerks spikes in exchange for spores, bite, or umbra, is a huge nerf, people should adapt to the new setup because its tons more powerful then 2.x lerk

*Cough*

Spikes would still be good with the current flight model; you can strafe marines.

anti air is good fades, umbra, spores when seiging, and, rarely, bite.

when they have jp the best counter is making them seige. umbra really helps against jp shotty rushes. if they have to seige, you just gas where they have to build, then those jps become weakened and die quickly to fades and leaping skulks.

oh yeah don't even think of countering ha or jetpacks with one hive, because they're roughly the marines equivilent to two hive aliens.

Ok ok check this out.

1. Bite

2. BileBomb

3. Spikes

4. Spumbra!!!!!

There is an AMX Plugin that allows bite AND spike to be used while retaining all other abilities.

Slot 1 has bite and spikes and the rest is the same. Its much more fun to go Lerk and it solves the problem of I WANT SPIKES, NO I WANT SPORES.

Although Umbra needs to stop being nerfed IMO, in 1.0x it was great it lasted a while and the lerk actually supported its team with it. THe suggestion of umbra carrying over for 2 secs after leaving might be a little overpowering though. Just seems you can umbra someone and it wont matter, ull still be dead within one sg shot, or HMGed before you can get near the marine, needs to take more damage off and last a little longer, range is fine though.

Someone once suggested that you would have to "buy" your first hive ability (spikes or spores) after evolving to lerk. So a lerk would cost 25 res , spores would cost 5 res and spikes 10 res (slightly stronger spikes than in 2.01)

To me, the most horrible ability of the lerk are the spores: I'm in no clan and always play on public servers, sometimes with many vets, sometimes with many new players. However, spores are always a major annoyance. Vets can use them very well while they fly away from rines, never getting into sight of the chasing marines, but always leaving a cloud behind, damaging the pursuers all the time without being accessible for them. newbies love to spore-spam the marine spawn from vents. While it isnt such an annoyance in combat, it definately is in NS.
And unfortunately, lerks with spores are available pretty fast to the aliens, while jetpacks hunt them or HA to ignore them are very costly to the rines.
For a long time, the rines dont have any way to combat a more-or-less skilled lerk.

So, what role could suit the lerk? Obviously, its the only alien lifeform being able to fly (not counting the fade, most ppl on publics dont have scripts to be able to slash people while blinking), so it has to be able to fight the pesky jetpackers flying around the hive/onos. Also, it is the fastest of the aliens (without using a skill like the fade), able to get everywhere, so it is perfect for a support role as it can get to a critical fight fast. Its combat should be limited to pure hit and run as almost all other lifeforms can fight better. Even the skulk.
(the skulk can strafe and is harder to hit having no wings that catch bullets. also easier to control. Flying properly takes some learning time. A fully upgraded skulk is much better in combat gameplay than a lerk. just not vs JP)

I'm also against giving the lerk spikes back. Same as spores, you can damage stuff without having to fight. Thats lame. TFs are there to protect stuff from the cheaper lifeforms, if you can kill them easily from a vent with a lerk, its pointless.

Hobojoe mentioned that lerks shouldnt be able to counter JPs because they are the rine equivalent to 2 hives - thats somehow true, somehow not. I dont think rines and aliens can be compared in any way like that but.... its true. JPs take a long time to become available! However, even onos are available for aliens from hive 1 on, and they arent much weaker with regen only.
No other, advanced alien lifeform could be better suited to counter jetpackers. It just doesnt make sense having the flying alien not be able to fight the flying marine!
But when we take much of the lerks spore-spamming ability away, it becomes a much less attractive lifeform, only available to support, take on one or two light marines. Why not save for fade if I can't spore-spam rines from safe cover or lame down their whole base with my l33t spikes?
Their main advantage should be that you can use them for support or against JPs when they appear. When the rines have JPs, they most likely also have shotties or HMG, its still a risky thing to engange one, and the lerk costs 30 res (Jp:15 res, shottie:10 res = 25 res!) and also isnt really cheap.

So, what do I suggest?
(all suggestions are for weapons and abilities, no hitpoint/armor/speed/flying style change change suggested)

1. The Bite

The Bite should be stronger, but slower - somehow like focussed, but a bit weaker so that it takes two bites to kill a rine without armor. That way, a lerk can use a fast fly-by attack to deal out some good damage and without having to get in touch too much. Also he can hit jetpackers harder when he gets them in dogfight. (even better with focus on later in the game...but then "reload" takes ages, so he shouldnt miss) Shotties can still take it down easily, armored marines can feel safer.

2. The Spores

Gas reacting aggressive on lightly armored equipment - only effective on light marines and Jetpackers - Slowly damage armor, never hurt health.
Spores that get sucked into a jetpack engine damage it - resulting in faster power loss for the jetpacker, so that his jetpack fails shortly after flying into a spore could and doesnt regenerate power when inside one!
This makes the lerk a very good supporter in combatting light marines (can take armor away so that the skulks find an easier prey or so that he can kill them faster himself, but someone has to get in touch with them to get a kill, no more spore spam kills!)
Also, hes a better weapon against JPs. Those with less flying skills dont have to fly around chasing the Jetpacker, they can use spores to force him down into the skulk pit!

3. Umbra

Fast expanding high-density could of particles - slows down anything moving through it. (bullets, rines & aliens)
Currently, umbra isnt useful due to the short area of effect. covering a full room for while, it could be much more used! It reduces damage done to aliens inside - however, its disadvantage is that it also slows movement down a bit. Mostly, umbra is used to cover base attacks by oni. The rines do less damage - however, the onos cant strike as fast as he possibly could.
Another aspect not to be ignored - when covering a whole room, the big cloud automatically reduces visibility for everyone inside - skulks are even harder to spot, but maybe also dont spot rines in time.

4. Lerklift

The primal scream of the lerk isnt really suited for the lifeform. The onos could have an intimidating, motivating battlecry, but this fragile little fly? Just doesnt fit athmospherically to me. So what do i suggest for third hive?
Lerklift. Yep! Its a very, very useful much used NS mod, why not add it as official ability of the lerk? Allowing the lerk to lift gorges up a hive for better defense against the (hopefully) advanced marines or into vents to prepare a base attack with bile bombs or hidden def towers is another great supportive skill that would be definately used a lot. however, if he switches to another ability in flight, the gorge gets dropped of course. *spalsh!*

It should definately be only a third hive ability because closing vents with ocs would be too easy before.


Long article, hope its some inspiration. "SPIKES! NO! SPORES! NO! SPORIES! ..."

_______________________
Wizzball

Lerk lift...a worse thid hive ablity than...well, anything. It should be an innate ability of the lerk.

Mabye We can keep the current 3.0 Lerk, but when you choose to gestate into a lerk, you have the option of gestating with spikes, or gestating with bite, both as first weapon. So you could either go with current bite and be the close combat lerk, or get spikes and be the hallway lerk. I see no problem with it.

I think spikes would have to be about 15 damage to make it only 30 damage when focused....slightly slower rate of fire as a gorge with spit if the Lerk with spikes had lvl 3 focus, but instant hit just as usual.

If there is an evolution choice between Lerk with Spikes and Lerk with Bite, everybody wins!

I want lerks to have:

Fly
Bite
Spikes
Spores
Umbra
Primal

Thats 6.

Well, flying is an ability, not a skill, so were down to 5.

If you combined spores and umbra, you would get something like this:

when attacking bases, umbra is used, and gas doesnt really help. When attacking marines on its own, the lerks umbra doesnt help.
Light marines can be killed with spores, heavy ones requires teamwork and umbra.

My point: these attacks are rarely used togheter,m and will therefor not be more powerful togheter than they are separated.

So:

1. Bite
2. Spikes
3. Spores/Umbra
4. Primalscream(which needs a serious boost in duration)

i would argue with you over the role of the lerk, but something tells me it won't ever be the anti-personal unit it was in v1.04
That being said, as the lerk is fairly fradgile and light, and is now a support unit, giving it spikes seems more logical than bite. The argument that spikes on lerks is to strong does not hold water as the lerk hasn't changed much from v2.x in its stats, just flight module. We all remember how none but the bored or crazy went lerk right?
With spikes the lerk can stay out of harms way, squaking and farting as it pleases with th ability to pick off some loan rines from vents or around cover.

Downside to spikes in general- Flight modual would need work, more than just a tweaks worth. that could be bad.

I agree that having spike is more logical than bite for a support class. Despite that, this is the weapons i would like it to have.

1 : Bite
2 : Spumbra (umbra having a residual effect once you leave the cloud)
3 : Bilebomb (you have to admit bombing a base would be so much fun)
4 : Spike (it would be excellent at keeping marines at bay and particularly appropriate for the 3rd hive i think)

I've YET to see someone explain to me WHY in the same post they would say the lerk is a support class, then put an ability in for the lerk that is 100% not for a support class, that being bilebomb. I've also yet to see an explanation for why spikes are better for "support" than bite. Spikes are ridiculously weak and can be used in a fruitless effort to spike down structures from a distance, namely electrified objects and PGs. How utterly worthless and not the objective of the lerk. A lerk helps fades or onos take out structures, it doesn't do it on it's own, that's why bite is significantly weaker than a skulk bite.

Personally, our clan has the Bite/Spike plugin and I love it. You evolve to lerk with Spike as your main attack... and have the option for bite as a sub-main attack. So our lerks have five attacks.

A few things about the lerk I would love to see (I want the 2.0 lerk back, but...):

1. Tweak their adren. I remember when you could fly -and- attack at the same time without being completely grounded and, hence, totally screwed.

2. Fix the flight model. Great, so it's easier to fly in a straight line. But turn a corner? Hit a vent? I find I get stuck more -now- than I ever did in 1.04 or 2.x and it's rather annoying. Oh, and let's not forget that flying backward was a major plus for lerks trying to escape. Skulks, fades, onos and gorges can all -hop- backwards, but if you try to "hop" backwards with the lerk... you go... forwards? A pox on that, I say!

3. Hive Attributes:

h0: Bite/Spike ... Yes, I love the double option. Both are useful.
h1: Spores ... A must have, especially considering the JP/light marine tech tree.
h2: Umbra ... Again, on a one-hive lockdown, you need that sort of support.
h3: whatever ... Lerks are mostly useless once HA/elec/HMG/etc are tech'd.

Personally, I miss "Babblers". I wouldn't be at -all- opposed to bringing those back, somehow. Even if the lerk could drop mini, grounded copies of itself that would fire off spores instead of Xenocide.

Also, why not Spumbra (ie: spores + umbra)? Think about the purposes of both. Spores are an offensive weapon. They are fired at a group of -marines- to wear down on armor and HP. Umbra, on the other hand, is a defensive weapon. It's fired at an alien or group of aliens or at yourself to protect you. Unless you're stuck in a severe melee situation, that dual isn't exactly necessary. One or the other will suffice. If you have spores anyway, then to counter the defensive, stay out of the melee (up in a vent, on a ledge or perch).

Truly, I miss the old lerk. The only thing that's made playing it even remotely enjoyable again is that dual plugin for bite and spike. Glad to see the designers are actually taking a look at changing some things about the lerk. Kudos all!

Why not have:
Hive one: bite, and spores; slot 1 and 2 respectively
Hive 2: Spikes; spikes have slower lower rof, same power
Hive 3: primal scream

But, change the gorge slightly

hive one: Spit, and Healspray/umbra combination; should not be too overpowered as gorges excrete their healspray, they do not shoot it like some sort of gas "grenade" and they will have to be in harms way. Still not healed by their own hellspray. Possible semi-umbra effect on themselves
Hive 2: bile bomb
Hive 3: web

Its just a suggestion.