I'm making a single place to stick all the changes people want to see with Catpacks, maybe from this we can get a refined list down to a few things that could be presented. As it is, I can't move 30-40 threads because they all have merit.

So discuss them here..

My personal wishlist for Catpacks:
- 50% faster realoadtime
- 50% increase build speed
- 25% speed boost
- 0% faster shooting
- Paranoia hearing
- 2/3res

:o

EDIT:
Most imortant for me: make it more different to the stimpacks in starcraft. And nice idea with this thread Zunni

I believe in using catpacks, although I think that if catpacks also included something extra such as temporary scanner or temporary motion tracking people would be more enticed to use them.

Catpacks are really only good for speeding up the destruction of an Alien structure. This is all fine if you're planning a shotgun rush on a hive, or need to clear a WOL, but they just arent seeing enough use.

If catpacks reduced the cone of fire (increasing accuracy of the weapons) for a short period of time I can see myself using them.

Its no more unbalanced than Primal Scream speeding up the attacks of all the alien abilities for a short period of time.

I think that cat-packs should be a little more "Cat" like

1- marine can only use his knife as a weapon

2- marine jump increased by 50%

3- marine ROF increased 50%

4- marines speed inceased 50%

and 5- marines melee knife attack goes up 50%

it'd make the marines and the aliens meat on even ground for intense melee one on one action in a fight to the death, man VS beast!!!!

"commander, I'm out of ammo.... give me... the Stuff!!!!" *cat pack drops in front of marine, after injecting needle marine starts to convulse and grow slighty * "ahhhhhhhh" *pulls out knife and starts slashing away at aliens* " FOR THE COMM!!!! AHHHHHHHHHHHHH"

I think it could be cool

lets pretend the 'cat' post doesn't exist shall we?

I'd like to see:
- 25% faster realoadtime (the medicine side of the pack and the nanites altering the weapon)
- Smaller cone of fire for catalyst duration (nanites improving the weapon accuracy)
- 0% increase build speed
- 25% speed boost (The medicine side of the pack)
- 25% faster shooting (nanites inproving ROF)
- Paranoia hearing
- 4res

I don't think that'd make it too unbalanced, though it'd certainly make it more useful.

4 res (+ research cost) is crazy for something that lasts about 8 seconds. You can get a shotty for 10, and that will last until you die. The minimal cost effectiveness prevents cats from being useful in anything but real emergencies and and when you can bleed as much res as you feel like.

Maybe we should just remove the research requirement. It's still too expensive to keep your rambos up and about, but you can use it in emergencies without planning ahead (researching but potentially never using them).

remove them

the relm of speed should not belong to the marines. They already have the phase gate, they don't need to go any faster.

I agree with removing them altogether too. Marines have won games in the past without this, and this proves they are not needed. Why was this feature implemented anyway? Was it to provide more variety to the coms interaction with marines? I don't see a niche it fills.

At least hand grenades are somewhat useful on a vent sporing lerk and I don't see those in games I play these days anyway.

Maybe the ability to have 1 cat pack per every 3 lives/deaths and the option to use that when you want? Lasting for a period of 15 seconds?

EDIT:

Not able to stack / have multiple catpacks.

meh, why don't you make them equipment rather then a med-pack style thing. As in, dropped around the armoury, goes into slot four, when the marine sees a formidable foe coming their inject themselves with the stuff, let the nanites into their gun and give 'em hell.

That'd be heaps more useful then forcing the commander to drop them onto the marine. Though, it'd probably need a time extension if you could only carry one (carrying more would be abused by some marines).

make it only a tech research, like a hand nade, so every marine that spawns has one and can use it at will.... same as a hand nade. just put it in slot 4.

It has the same features as a hand nade, ie it has only limited tactical usefullness, certanly not enough to justify spending 3 res a time, but it can come in handy if your useinfg certian strats, like a shottie rush.

This is the thread where I first talked about AoE cats. Now you don't have to bring it here. Woo!

yeah, I say remove. Catpacks don't fill a needed (or deserved) niche in the marine game, and they seem more like gimmick upgrades than actual combat enhancers.
They don't make sense techically either. How can an automatic weapon change its rate of fire, and why isn't it built to fire faster in the first place?

I'ld still like to see them make you reload faster. Since your moving faster, wouldn't it make logical sense that you reload faster?

I like the idea of making them like hand grenades. Another problem that totally nerfs it is the fact that you have to research it at the arms lab. Perhaps move it to be researched at the armory, thus allowing the comm more freedom on when to research it?

*suprisingly* I fall on the side of the "remove" with Ripur and his group.

Never like them much. Not needed to "fill a niche" as someone else said.

I think im the only comm that learned how to use cat packs. So I will tell you how to use them. I have them in my tech tree after weaposn 2 but before armor 2. Catpacks are my fade killers. Nothing like surprising a fade with 2 catpacks when he gets into melee range of my sgers. OR if I see a lerk in melle range of a marine, I drop a catpack and 50% of the time they will get a kill if I am quick enough. Onos? Heh, drop a catpack to you HMGer and hell drop about as a fast a a skulk. +more reens for faster death.

Catpacks are for killing those mid game fades/lerks/ and onos.

Although I think it could use some changes to amek em a little better and worth even more.

keep all statictics the same cept for:
30% faster reload
Researchable at Armory (Maybe comm chair??)

I personaly think anything more would overpower them.

I vote either

A- put in my totally crazy and cool idea

or B- just get rid of them

no need to remove them, they are realy good. I posted the strat for em. with a total break down, onthe marine strategy thingy forums

Dot dot dot.


So... fine. They're on crack, then. Whatever.

I would like to see them more like doom3's beserker packs, without being a rippff (Ripoffs are in some cases, cool)

Main:
- 50% Reduced damage (only health, not armor)
- Takes 2 damage per second (To prevent non-combat use, the reduced damage will make up for this in combat)
- 33% Increased speed
- 33% Increased reload speed
- 33% Increased attack speed on knife and shotgun only (more muscle strength makes you pull back that thing faster)
- Lasts 8 seconds (16 time damage in total)
- cost 4 res

Ohter:
- Screaming marine (So you know those chemicals REALLY pisses him off (Maybe just heavy rasping breathing))
- Paranoia hearing (Dunno what it is, but sounds cool)

This would have a major cool-factor compared to the current catalyst. There is no increased attackrating on other weapons than the shotgun and the knife, becuase the nanithes-in-the-gun feature is just absurd. 50% Reduced damage will make up for this.

All values are subject to change.

This would be so cool.

I'm going to suggest a very different approach to the catalyst pack, allowing it to improve their weaknesses rather than increasing (or wasting) their strength.

-Res cost down to 2/3
-Keep 25% Movement speed increase
-Increase Duration to possibly 10 seconds
-Give immunity to spores
-Speed up welding, knifing and building only (up to 50%?)

The catalyst pack in its current incarnation basically lets marines dodge and shoot faster. Some good players I play with actually complain that the increased RoF screws up their aiming. Anyway, the major boost to marines in this case is basically to kill things, faster.

My cat-pack allows marines to [1] pull off a siege more rapidly, [2] ignore spores temporarily for a price (good for sieging), to repair things faster, and to kill alien rts and chambers faster.

It'll be versatile with more roles available. So much so that the cost of researching and using it might just be worth it.

66% of the time I play NS maps I spend in the comm chair. and about 50% of the time I get catpacks, since again it is skilled base. And again im going to say this. They are the fade killers.
I almost always get Catpacks when I play CO maps. I usualy get catpacks first because they are just that good. It liek when I get a catpack I just go on a killing spree. the most kills ive ever gotten off of one catpack was 8. 8 skulks rushed me, and I was catted. I was able to kill them all.

hmmm, maybe catpacks are actualy over powered...

Im actualy starting to think that any changes or buffs to em would overpower them.

I mean seriously, how often do you guys use em? id say ive used em for well over 200 hours worth of game time.

I try to get at least 30-40 hours of NS in a week.

Hey Gecko, I remember one of your posts in the WFL NS forum, you know...the one that says you're not here to listen to emotional stuff from others because you might only have 2-3 hours of play time a week to spend on NS?

So, were you lying then or now

BTW, do you usually drop medpacks wif you anticipate a fade attack into a group of marines? Yesterday night by the time you dropped me a catpack, I already killed the Fade.

What I personaly like to do is drop it near the marine at an area I want him to hold and kill a fade at. That way when the fade comes, he can rush over the catpack and kill the alien. Catpacks are far more usefull in smaller games, and generaly require myself to have motion. so I know where to pay attention to and when.

I think i ment 2-3 hours a night. on WFL. like yesterday I played for about 5 hours. so I went to sleep real late. s0000 tired now. ahhaha.

catpacks are probrably the most difficult item to use as a commander, and somewhat as a marine. because as a commander you have to drop it at the right time and place so the marine can use it. Plus the marines need to know how to use it.

for example
2w1aSG reen < regen fade.
this is if both get in perfect shots.
a fade attacks its 3 blinks faster than a reen. Thus the marine dies with the fade having like 150 health or soo.

Now if you catpack that same marine. He will attack faster than the fade with the SG. + out manavour. there for 2w1aSG reen > regen fade.

Regen fades are most commen. if they have cara, chances are youll still care him.

even a 2w1aLMG marine catpacked with realy good aim will eather scare off, or kill a lone fade byhimself.

and of course HMGs will just slaughter. but I didn't use those in the pub. to much


I would love it if you could drop catpacks on a live marine, and it gets stored for when the marine needs it. IE i drop it on him, now he has 1 in stock. all he does is press the flashlight button (or maybe a new one) and he is instantly catalyst.

but righ tnow, I just have a sger hide behind a corner if I can, drop a catpack infront of him, when the fade enters the room, He runs over it and hopefully kills the fade. catpacks are like giving a marine a tempory lvl 3 weapon, and making him as fast a skulk

and with lvl 3 weapons, it make him like lvl6 weapons, and he can also doge way faster tooo!!! I was using catpacks on pugs with great success pubs....are iffy. most pubs lack the orginization and are usualy too big for catpacks.

if they were put on the amrory, they would be one of my first techs though.

catpacks are only worth it if my marine gets those one or two kills.

have marines hold on to (one) catpack when they pick one up, and auto-use it next time they fire/reload

3 fades swipes happen faster than 3 sg blasts. if both are perfect, the fade should win.

edit: I tested this is ns_dual with a friend. ROF of fade is faster than SG.

Catpacks are not frequently used in NS but i personally need them for CO.

It is just to damn funny when a fade blinks at you and the catpack kicks in, making you able to blast him with you lvl3 SG to "a better place". It's a great and funny item so please don't delete it.

My catpack wishlist.

-Inreased reload time
-Inreased accuracy
-Same firing speed as witheout catpack
-Increased build speed
-0.5 percent chance of an Instakill bullet.
-Increased costs (5 res)

Instakill bullet: every 1 of 200 bullets is marked as "extremely deadly" IF it hits an alien lifeform this lifeform will die instantly. Remember the bullet has to hit, so if the "deadly" bullet does not hit anything it's: better luck next time. This is only true for lifeforms so it does not affect buildings (no instagib hives)

This would make cats a viable onos counter.

Catpack wishlist:

25% bonus to speed
25% bonus to ROF
25% bonus to reload time
costs 3 res (or 4, 3 might be unbalanced)

It's that other syringe that makes your gun shoot faster, which is just completely stupid anyway.

I like the idea with the self-activated catpack, and decreased reload time.

I'd rather have the catpack stay the same stats it is now, but no longer comm droppable.

Instead, make it like the grenade. You spawn with 1, and can use it anytime. It already needs to be researched like a grenade, so it cuts out a step of making it researchable.

Thus, it leads to self activation.

Scenario...

Step 1. Group 6 of Cat-pack toting marines with HMGs run down hall.

Step 2. Two Onos come charging down the hall, making loud noises with the intentions of eating everyone.

Step 3. Before people can yell "AHH RUN AWAY", they would switch to Cat Pack and activate it.

Step 4a. Onoses eat 2 of the Marines, but they fire so fast it's like they're still with them. They kill the Onoses thanks to their 1-shot cat packs, and all the mariens cheer for the comm who researched Cat packs.

Step 4b. The Onos hear the sounds of Cat packs and run away, happy to know that they wasted their cat packs. They run back after 10 seconds and waste the entire group, laughing all the way.

I think it sounds cool, but I dunno if the devs want to keep it as a comm drop or not. *shrugs*

Cone of fire reduced 10% for LMG, HMG, SG
Reload speed increased 10%
Movement and strafe speed increased 10%
Mouse sensitivity increased 20%
FOV decreased by 10 degrees
Gamma/Brightness increased slightly (don't know how to number it)
Sound effect volume increased 10%
Music volume decreased 5%


In combat, once bought catpacks can be applied by an impulse, up to 1 catpack every 7 seconds.

Catpacks cost 4 in classic.
Effects stack


Basically, a skilled catpack user is a scary marine. An unskilled catpack user is a little more dangerous, but not alot.

messing with the sens, gamma, and volume wouldn't be good. but 4 rez for all that, isn't all that great. youd have to drop the rez down to 1 or 2. also. the gamma, sens, and other config stuff could be countered by a simple script.

the stackable idea is nice. but with the shuggested upgrades it gives, it just wouldn't be worht 4 rez.

Faster reload.

And in combat, can we make it so catpacks disable marine bhop restriction?

My cat-pack wishlist:

1. Catpacks can be dropped on commanders
2. Catpacks increase commander thinking speed by 200%
3. Catpacks on commanders make all marines obey orders faster
4. Catpacks on commanders make all noobs instantly vets for 10 seconds.



I think these are valuable additions to the game and should be considered.

Oh yeah, did you see that purple potato flying backwards in the sky tuesday last?

For combat, I'd like to see catpacks become like scan. If an alien comes within X range of you, you have a certain percent chance of getting a catalyst. IMO that would be far more useful for taking out larger lifeforms that what we have now. Naturally, there would also be a limit on how often a marine could get one.

As a side note, that % chance of a catpack could be scaled based on gamesize. In a large game where an alien would enter the sphere of influence often, the % would be small. In a 2-on-2 game, the chance would be much greater.