Before you say "OMG overpowered", let me elaborate. It involves a few bundled changes:
1) Mines are now cloaked.
2) Mines also emit a quiet humming sound (use a lower volume version of one of the existing ambient sounds).
3) Sensory chambers uncloak mines.
4) SoF reveals mines.
5) Allow parasites to damage mines again.
What does all this do? The main idea is to make sensory chambers more useful.
But wouldn't this make mines more powerful? Not that much. Aliens can pinpoint the general location of the mine by its new humming sound, and skulks can "sweep" the area with parasites, albeit it might take a while to locate the mine.
As for the realism/theme aspect: Even though marines aren't supposed to be the stealthy race, mines are supposed to be stealthy anyway, so it only makes sense the mines are "camoflauged".
EDIT: Forgot to mention: this would work perfectly with any idea that involves new types of mines.
Full Version: Cloaked Mines
Unknown Worlds Forums > Natural Selection > Natural Selection Discussion > Ideas and Suggestions Forum > Ideas for future versions
Ok, I'm sure I've lost a lot of credibility over my onos milk thread which I was curious to see peoples' reactions (generally negative). Anyway, for this thread I will promise you a more serious tone.
Mines at hive 2... They are very essential to the cost concious commander right at the start of the game, but as hive 2 rolls on by... they become useless. Maybe it's because the fact they do so little damage, or then again they can be spotted so easily... but I believe the main reason is BILE BOMBS.
Therefore, I suggest NOT to upgrade damage of the mines, because they are meant to counter skulks and lower life forms.
I only suggest to add another upgrade to the armory, CLOAKED mines. This won't stop bile bombs destructive power over mines, but it may help allow mines to get a better chance at hitting a target.
THE OTHER THREAD WAS NOT SUPPOSED TO BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY. IT WAS JUST A WONDER THREAD.
Mines at hive 2... They are very essential to the cost concious commander right at the start of the game, but as hive 2 rolls on by... they become useless. Maybe it's because the fact they do so little damage, or then again they can be spotted so easily... but I believe the main reason is BILE BOMBS.
Therefore, I suggest NOT to upgrade damage of the mines, because they are meant to counter skulks and lower life forms.
I only suggest to add another upgrade to the armory, CLOAKED mines. This won't stop bile bombs destructive power over mines, but it may help allow mines to get a better chance at hitting a target.
THE OTHER THREAD WAS NOT SUPPOSED TO BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY. IT WAS JUST A WONDER THREAD.
first off, marines NEVER need anything to cloak.
second, marines already have better static defences than aliens
before marines get better mines, aliens need some form of mine themsleves.
second, marines already have better static defences than aliens
before marines get better mines, aliens need some form of mine themsleves.
If they are cloaked, marines are more inclined to plant them in places other than marine spawn, like around uncapped RTs.
Not too bad an idea, but I disagree with Parasites damaging Mines; it's been removed for a reason. Of course, I enjoy the visual deterrant of today's Mines, but there was a 2.0 server that had a plugin very similar to this. One thing I'm concerned of is that this could make cloaked Sensories in the field too easy to isolate and find.
Chods: SCs cloak themselves. Marines won't necessarily know they're nearby. And as for Marine Start Mines, I perscribe the same medication that has worked since 2.0: Bilebomb for the win.
Chods: SCs cloak themselves. Marines won't necessarily know they're nearby. And as for Marine Start Mines, I perscribe the same medication that has worked since 2.0: Bilebomb for the win.
Re: "i dont see how it would encourage sensory"
Since cloaked mines have far more applications then mining marine start, sensories can be placed at common mining places, such as res nodes.
Re: "I disagree with Parasites damaging Mines"
The only reason parasites don't damage mines is that mines were too vulnerable. Since they're cloaked and are only fully revealed with sensory, they are no longer too vulnerable and in fact may be overpowered since it requires a gorge to "sweep" the area with the mine's humming sound. Therefore, there's no gameplay reason parasite shouldn't damage mines.
Re: "this could make cloaked Sensories in the field too easy to isolate and find"
Mines would always appear uncloaked to marines, so they wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a cloaked and uncloaked mine. Also, mines being easily picked off doesn't necessarily mean there is a sensory chamber in the area; aliens with SoF can also reveal mines.
Since cloaked mines have far more applications then mining marine start, sensories can be placed at common mining places, such as res nodes.
Re: "I disagree with Parasites damaging Mines"
The only reason parasites don't damage mines is that mines were too vulnerable. Since they're cloaked and are only fully revealed with sensory, they are no longer too vulnerable and in fact may be overpowered since it requires a gorge to "sweep" the area with the mine's humming sound. Therefore, there's no gameplay reason parasite shouldn't damage mines.
Re: "this could make cloaked Sensories in the field too easy to isolate and find"
Mines would always appear uncloaked to marines, so they wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a cloaked and uncloaked mine. Also, mines being easily picked off doesn't necessarily mean there is a sensory chamber in the area; aliens with SoF can also reveal mines.
heh , I just had a thought
marines walking with back turned... skulks creeping up behind him and ... BOOM! marine turns around and finds a dead skulk behind him and wonders what the heck just happened
I don't know if this idea is good or not I just think incidents like that would be really funny
marines walking with back turned... skulks creeping up behind him and ... BOOM! marine turns around and finds a dead skulk behind him and wonders what the heck just happened
I don't know if this idea is good or not I just think incidents like that would be really funny
I think its a good idea, only make it an upgradable ability. Like at the armory, an extra 10 res on making mines cloaked, and takes at least 2 to 4 minutes to research. Instead of just outright having cloaked mines, just make it so that its an upgradable thing.
| QUOTE (5kyh16h91 @ Aug 24 2004, 02:54 PM) |
| I don't understand how you can blame bilebomb for mines being useless....spit does the same job for the most part, it just takes a few more spits to clear a field because there's no splash damage. |
If you have played NS for long times you would understand...
1) Though mines can be exploded by higher life forms, it requires the actual player to be within the minezone, and even if they are, marines have a better chance of killing them considerably.
2) Spit require you to have the xhair on the mine which you will most likely see when you are pretty close to the mine. Spit is harder to aim and requires 1 shot for each of the mines.
3) Bile bomb let's you throw one projectile from a distance that has an arc which is very useful when there are marines waiting over a wall. Not only that, one bile bomb can explode several, if not all, mines in one area, rendering 10 res wasted. It is much easier to aim because of it's enormous splash area compared to the smaller, non-splash effects of spit.
4) Bile bomb allows a gorge to throw one projectile and run off as spit require that gorge to stay and aim at each individual mine, therefore increasing chances that marines will spot and kill the gorge.
You have to realize that marines exist in a map as well. Mines aren't the only thing that's dangerous out there.
Exactly what I put in my cloaked mines thread. Having cloaked mines right away could be too powerful, an upgrade could solve the problem of it being not used at all at hive 2.
| QUOTE (Maian @ Aug 24 2004, 05:28 PM) |
| If they are cloaked, marines are more inclined to plant them in places other than marine spawn, like around uncapped RTs. |
ok i didnt think of that
| QUOTE |
| SCs cloak themselves. Marines won't necessarily know they're nearby. |
if you have sc, marines will drop an obs at spawn which will uncloak your sc's. i guess you can have them a bit back from ms, but then they wouldnt detect the mines.
| QUOTE |
| if you have sc, marines will drop an obs at spawn which will uncloak your sc's. i guess you can have them a bit back from ms, but then they wouldnt detect the mines. |
That's what SoF is for
| QUOTE |
| Exactly what I put in my cloaked mines thread. Having cloaked mines right away could be too powerful, an upgrade could solve the problem of it being not used at all at hive 2. |
Well, that's why the cloaked mines would emit a humming sound. Still, upgradable mines is a good idea - there are 2 ways to do this:
1) cloaked mines emitting humming sound -> silent cloaked mines
2) uncloaked mines -> silent cloaked mines
Having mines appear on sof (or maybe if u parasite them?) would be very confusing to aliens. Mines could be decoy marines out in the field and in rine spawn aliens would hardly be able to see if there's 2-3 mine packs lying around.
I was thinking along the lines of SoF revealing mines, but the mines don't appear on the SoF circles.
I think just making them partially invisible, yet still emmiting a low-pitched whir could be enough for Aliens to know where they are. Plus, the TSA have in no way perfected cloaking technology like in the psuedo-fasion the Kharra have. Having Sensory Chambers and SoF uncloak Mines just sounds odd; Sensories aren't Observatories, they're the anti-observatory. If the two structures were to occupy the same space, space and time as we know it would cease to exist.
...Well, actually, the Observatory would uncloak the Sensory and it would get swiftly plastered.
...Well, actually, the Observatory would uncloak the Sensory and it would get swiftly plastered.
Why not make mines rather small things that tend to blend into the environment, so that you could place them in areas where they wouldn't be seen, or places where a skulk might rush through without noticing. Maybe even make them placable on the walls for more creative uses.
Wait a tic...
Seriously, the current structure of mines is exactly what fits this game. Cloaking delivers random death to skulks, not just to the ones who weren't careful enough to look where they are going. Plus, SoF sees mines?? Great Glayven in a Gladbag, how is that supposed to work? Are the mines scared? Afraid to blow up? Having some existential crisis we know nothing about?
I think that the way to encourage dropping mines elsewhere than the marine bases is to make it so that if a person carrying mines is killed, they drop the mines, allowing other marines to pick them up without wasting the pack.
Wait a tic...
Seriously, the current structure of mines is exactly what fits this game. Cloaking delivers random death to skulks, not just to the ones who weren't careful enough to look where they are going. Plus, SoF sees mines?? Great Glayven in a Gladbag, how is that supposed to work? Are the mines scared? Afraid to blow up? Having some existential crisis we know nothing about?
I think that the way to encourage dropping mines elsewhere than the marine bases is to make it so that if a person carrying mines is killed, they drop the mines, allowing other marines to pick them up without wasting the pack.
This makes me think, if TSA have the technology to cloak mines, then why don't they have the ability to cloak altogether!
| QUOTE |
| Sensories aren't Observatories, they're the anti-observatory |
Well when I hear the term "sensory", that implies sensing and detecting something...
| QUOTE |
| Plus, SoF sees mines?? Great Glayven in a Gladbag, how is that supposed to work? Are the mines scared? Afraid to blow up? Having some existential crisis we know nothing about? |
Good point. Either rename SoF and come up with another BS backstory (since most of the backstory really is clever BSing).
| QUOTE |
| This makes me think, if TSA have the technology to cloak mines, then why don't they have the ability to cloak altogether! |
Let's call it "camoflauged". BS backstory time. TSA has developed so-called "advanced camoflauge" technology. Using a system of nanobot cameras and display, the camoflauged object is practically invisible. However, since it takes around a second to camoflauge to its surroundings, it is impossible to camoflauge moving object such as the brave Frontiersmen. In addition, a "camoflauge suit" would be at least 10 times more expensive than TSA standard jetpacks, and thus is not practical.
Let's just say nanites and all go home.
20 res to upgrade at the armory makes mines cloaked, but gives a humming sound to give aliens a chance, fair? Not detectable with SoF or sensories because mines don't "fear" (I hope), and they aren't biological. Hive 1 mine clearing would be either a fade or onos walks into an area with mines and blows them up. No humming, no problem. Hive 2 mine clearing would be bilebomb.
20 res to upgrade at the armory makes mines cloaked, but gives a humming sound to give aliens a chance, fair? Not detectable with SoF or sensories because mines don't "fear" (I hope), and they aren't biological. Hive 1 mine clearing would be either a fade or onos walks into an area with mines and blows them up. No humming, no problem. Hive 2 mine clearing would be bilebomb.
Sorry for the double post, but I believe this is a better idea than the ones I posted before it. If you were to delete a post, delete the previous one I made before this one.
I think the best way for cloaked mines would be when the armory is finished upgrading, all mines would be cloaked. If there is no advanced armory, the mines would become visible.
So mines would be the same cost, damage, every other variable BEFORE advanced armory.
After the armory upgrades, mines would be barely visible unless at VERY close range (camouflage technology sounds better than cloaked), and would emit a small humming sound. All other variables (damage, size, cost, # of mines per pack, properties) would be the same.
I think this way would work best since it removes the hassle of upgrading another tech and advanced armory is about the time when hive 2 is up.
Mines would not be visible with scent of fear or any other ability. They would work just like beta5 mines with no special properties added to them.
I think the best way for cloaked mines would be when the armory is finished upgrading, all mines would be cloaked. If there is no advanced armory, the mines would become visible.
So mines would be the same cost, damage, every other variable BEFORE advanced armory.
After the armory upgrades, mines would be barely visible unless at VERY close range (camouflage technology sounds better than cloaked), and would emit a small humming sound. All other variables (damage, size, cost, # of mines per pack, properties) would be the same.
I think this way would work best since it removes the hassle of upgrading another tech and advanced armory is about the time when hive 2 is up.
Mines would not be visible with scent of fear or any other ability. They would work just like beta5 mines with no special properties added to them.
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