The lerk has been drifting away from the support role since 3.0. Slowly, the lerk becomes more combat oriented, and less supportive. Maybe, we should speed up the process.

The lerk: Harrasses the marines, shooting extremely powerful spores, biting, dropping bilebombs, etc.

Hold up...bilebombs?

Read on.

The lerks have a set of attacks focused on harassment. of the kharaa, evolving quickly over just a few years from support to this new role. It has taken the fade's position.

150/45 health. 33 resources. 190 units/second. The lerk can fly. This triples the lerk's speed. Attacks: Bite: The lerk's primary attack. Does 60 damage. RoF: 1.55/second. Uses 4% energy. Bilebomb: The lerk drops a bilebomb, but the bilebomb goes straight down, and cannot be aimed (no more shooting bilebomb, its dropping bilebomb now). This bilebomb will do 100 damage to structures, and 50 damage to marines. RoF: 1.25/second. Uses 18% energy (sure, this might seem overpowered, but when you think about having to actually fly over the marine base to drop it, it seems just like a normal attack. Oh, I just changed it so that it does 50 to marines and 100 to structures, instead of 60/120). Spores: Does 16 damage/second to any marine inside. Lasts for 7 seconds. RoF: .5/second. Uses 35% energy. Umbra: Blocks 3/4 bullets, and lasts for 4.5 seconds. Uses 35% energy. RoF: 1/second. Gains 15 armor with each level of carapace.



So, the lerk now has bilebomb, and a stronger spore/umbra. Also, he has Primal Scream removed. Hmm...


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The gorge, as of right now, is too weak of an alien. Sure, it is meant to build and such, but it needs to be able to defend itself. Webs would be more effective if in the game earlier. Also, it would be good to heal faster, getting your aliens back on the fighting line faster.


Gorge: 150/50 health. 10 resources. 180 units/second. The gorge can build structures. Attacks: Spit: Does 30 damage. RoF: 1.25/second. Uses 12% energy. Healspray: 16 damage. Heals 32 damage on aliens. RoF: .63/second. Uses 14% energy. Webs: Uses 20% energy. The gorge can put up webs. RoF: 2/second. Web Bomb: Uses 35% energy. RoF: .67/second. Launched like bilebomb. Any marine inside the splash will be stunned for .66 seconds. They cannot shoot, move or turn. Gains 20 armor with each level of carapace.

So, now the gorge can effectively do his jobs, which are to heal, protect and build. The Web Bomb comes at hive 3, and could, if you really needed to, be used to escape. Of course, a hive 3 gorge shouldnt be running from anything - there are lerks/fades/onos out there attacking the marine's base. Web Bombs are used for attacking, much like bilebombs were, when on the gorge.

bad idea sorry

bite \ spores are vital at 1 hive
umbra is vital at 2 hives

that leaves one slot to work with which is 3 hives, and is pretty much meaninless since aliens win 95% of the games with 3 hives...

I do believe that the thin line between the rolls of aliens in NS are beginning to blur, but some of your ideas just blur it even more. The gorge is not too weak of an alien right now. Spit is there for defense purposes only, its the last resort. If a gorge is ambushed by two marines, it should not be able to .. "web bomb" both and get away, thats absolutly redeclious. Spit functions as it should right now, and is getting a small yet noticable buff in the next version.

The lerk has strayed from the support roll some. With the gaining of bite, its job is more suited for front line work, but bilebombing with the lerk would make marines all the more vaunerable. With the current flight model, it would be a breeze for the lerk to move in and out of the marine base, constantly bile bombing it, and eventually destroying key structures. Where bile bomb is now, the gorge needs to be supported during an attack, and thats how it should be.

Keep the ideas comming, though, the aliens do need changes, just not these, per say.

i had a simular idea some time back.
Rather than moving the slot of umbra and BB, they change classes.
I do agree with you that BB would be more effective on the lerk, as it could effectivly attack outposts even with rines on the defence.

I do need to argue that lerks original design was NEVER ment to be a 'support' role. It was described in the original manual as 'the ultimate hit and run' class and its weps reflected such. Refresher- v1.04 lerks had Bite Spike a personal umbra (that kicked alot of ****) and a really effective spore. In that order.

As structure busting is one of the most important tasks of the alien classes mid game, having a fast hit and run class hold the best structure attack just makes sense.

edit: Ha.ze i think web bomb is ment to be 3rd hive. So i would argue is should let the gorge run like hhell fomr a couple of rines

Ha.ze summed up everything I was thinking...

Aliens have weak static defences.
Marines have strong static defences
Gorge is a weak combat character but good a breaking structures
A shottie rine is a Strong combat character and Strong at breaking structures.

You can have a rambo penitrate into an alien controled area and blow things up.
Aliens need a combinations of Gorges, fades, and lerks to destroy a marine outpost/lockdown.

So while a large part of the alien team is needed to break the marines, single marines can turn the weak OCs and chambers into goo.

Furhter reasoning for lerks with BB- If rines sneak into areas like Red Room to set up sieges, a gorge cannot use BB at all.

Marines have the advantage of allowing 1 marine to be a threat. 1 marine can sneak into siege points and set up pgs. 1 marine can take a GL and blow entire rooms up before the 'structure under attack' sound plays. So somehow it is fair for the marine to be an army of one, while aliens have to travel in a pack to do anything effective. Sure aliens are faster than rines, but they are not faster than PGs, so defending is harder for them than for rines aswell. I once held of 2 onos and a fade in MS by myself becuase i had an HMG and a JP. Is that fair? No.

Giving lerks bile bombs means marines have to watch their ****. They can't just pump enough res into a single spot to keep everything but the largest of alien classes out.

OMG TAKE COVER THE LERK IS COMING

Hmmm...I had to select carefully which thread to *bump*.

You can't justify a large change because of a single map. That is ludicris.

If bile bomb were to be switched to lerk, it would have to be nerfed BIG TIME. The Bile Bomb attack itself is very very powerful, maybe not to single structures such as res towers, but if shot at masses of turrets and clustered buildings. Not only that, but this single attack makes mines useless in the second hive stage. Giving mobility to this attack would further increase its power which may lead it to be overpowered. I would nerf damage, area of effect, and possible increase energy usage. Primal Bile Bomb would be very, very devastating.

As for my opinion, I believe it gives gorges more purposes other than building and healing. If they are not doing these 2 activities, they are doing nothing other than letting marines gain territory on the map. Bilebomb let's gorges have a more active role and besides, it complements their building speciality nature.

Dropping bile bombs to detonate a line of mines would be very risky , your average doorway trap could kill even a celerity lerk. However , theses bile bombs will be the most effective in large marine spawns (where you can safely bomb the structures and their mines from the high ceiling) and will counter electrification faster.

A lerk can live through a mine, seeing as a cara skulk is capible of that.

How come the lerk's bilebomb does damage to the player? 60 sounds a lot plus aliens start off with 25 res, imagine if half goes lerk and the other goes gorge. Lawl.

By second hive, marines should have a GL walking around.
A lerk with the current bile bomb is nothing compared to a GL. It does not do the same damage, have the same range, or the same versitility.
I agree that his suggestion of bb at hive one is over powered, but at hive two it is fair.

Wow, I thought it was perfectly fair, since you have to fly DIRECTLY over the marines/marine base for it to work. Sure, if they dont have a marine or two in the base then yes, it is overpowered. But, so is a fade when they dont have a marine or two in a base, or an onos...


Well, maybe 60 is a bit much, but then bilebomb does less to structures if it gets nerfed anymore.

ALSO, bilebomb on the lerk wouldn't be used nearly the same as on the gorge. Why? Because you have to be flying to use it correctly. So, you couldnt spam bilebombs over an RT to kill it: You already need energy to fly. If you used the 60 bilebombs required to kill it, thats 1080% of your energy, not including flying. So, it's gonna take a long time to kill it.

Bilebomb also compliments the lerk's spore. Spore a group of marines, then fly over, and drop a bilebomb. They both have a large AoE (area of effect), so you could possibly bilebomb them all. Bilebomb would still be used for support. Back in 1.04, when it was REALLY powerful, it did 75 damage to marines, 150 to structures, had major splash and an explosion that could hurt from very far away. They could also be shot. This bilebomb does 50/100 damage, can only be dropped, is on a weaker alien, and has a smaller splash. Of course, it is available at the beginning of the game. This bilebomb wouldn't be overpowered at all. It is meant for weakening the marines, like spores, but can be used in a deadly fashion, like spores (and the reason I want it on lerk is because I love lerk and am the LERK MASTER!!).


Bilebomb forces spores and umbra back a slot, too. Every time I think of lerks with bilebomb, I think of kestral (massive room, marines always stuck in MS) and eclipse (would just be a fun map to bilebomb in).

i would say a hive 1 bb would be to strong. With both bite and BB (even slightly weaker than now) the rines would be pwnzed.
At hive 2 though, the rines would stand a chance with upped armour/wepons.

With further tweaking this may work. So let's get tweaking..

wow this would really make onos weak, because teaming up a gorge and an onos is a lot harder then teaming up a lerk and an onos...

bilebomb is really worthless on a lerk if you have to fly over the target...

edit : ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh you can't push spore back to two hives, thats a horrible nerf.

It isn't a nerf if you buff spores...besides, the lerks gget bilebomb, that's worth it (IMO).

I'm still for bilebomb on the lerk. And, even Zunni says this could work with tweaking...

Uh, a 3/4 umbra would just cry end for the marine team. At one point it was 1/2 and was overpowered.

(Im pretty sure I got my numbers right.)

3/4 may cry end for rines...but it was moved to hive 3. Shouldn't that mean that it should cry end for rines?

the last slot on lerk should be spike shooter, now that it doesnt have that the lerk has lost its support role, i remember berfore taking out TF's with that now it is useless against turret factorys, the only use for a lerk now is to bite marines and umbra there team, that sux, with spike shooter they can take out things at long ranges, but the damage should go down as range increases. gorge/lerk thing, big nono

i dont think bb for lerk is a too bad of an idea, but i still dont think it should hurt marines, or at least not nearly as much as you first said.

maybe have it do lower damage, but higher RoF.

it wouldnt be used as a primary structure attack method, but just kind of a general AoE chaos thing. like for TF/PG/SC clumps. umbra, divebomb, maybe a 2nd pass, proceed to nearest hive/DC rinse and repeat.

this way, it would free up a gorge from wasting their time sliding in and out of corners trying to BB stuff, and let them be more useful in getting nodes and another hive or something.

this sort of thing could also lead into people wanting to cling on the ceilings over RTs and waiting for com to drop one just to bomb it and waste res or something like that. not necessarily a bad idea, but very annoying nonetheless.

That reminds me, why don't lerks cling to ceilings yet? I thought that Flayra wanted to implement that. Maybe not, though.

Yeah, this would work amazingly with lerk-cling to cielings. Also, in levels that have high MS, the lerks could effectively avoid turret fire.

no

i dreeded the lurk changes, i loved its spikes and its old flight system yes shore you hit the roof, but spikes rocked, how about give them a mini gun of spikes for slot 4, allow them to connect to celing and some one right them a second flight system so they can carry gorgies

tho i love primal scream it really helps with biling bases at third hive,

i dont know i arnt a lurk so it doesnt worrie me, i used to be a great sniper lurk loved it, after the changes i went na gogies are cool hey lurk lift ok i am a flying gorgie this is wicked i cant stear but hey theres a alien to always heal and a base to always kill, hey i got ten rez *drops structure*

pritty much the lurk should be a A 10 wart wog / celing mounted HL turret

side winders = bite
chemical SA LRM = spores
bombay = ubra
cargo/stealth glider = gorgie
mini gun = spikes
turrent ness celing mount

eh bring back spikes i might play lurk again, i have on them role dice servers, reguardless of the flight system

sorry i like support and ambushes

Have you ever been to a lerk-lift server? Do you have ANY idea how overpowered fly-by bile-bombs are? Given how manueverable the lerk is, marine structures can be destroyed with impunity. Even if this new BB doesn't do damage to marines it'd STILL BE OVERPOWERED.

Imagine, if you will, marines trying to seige the second hive going up at Furnace in Origin. The PG has gone up, and the TFac is upgrading. Before, marines could count on mines to help with defenses, for one thing. Now, with BB at hive 1, mines will be gone fromt he game forever, and no competent comm drops turrets. It's about 6 minutes into the game, and the second hive is halfway done. The aliens respond to the gorge spitting the hive and movement in. The Fades start doing the usual hit and run stuff, making marines waste bullets, time reloading, and time to weld each other if they have welders. At the same time they'll still need to concentrate on building those seiges. OF course, skulks will be suicide rushing constantly as well. Now, you're telling me during all of this, your marines will be able to deal with a celerity lerk flying high above you, dropping a few bileboms, and then retreating to be healed, and then is back in about 5 seconds?

Your 5 marines, even if they all have shotguns, won't be able to do squat to prevent their seige from going down because it is TOO DAMNED MANEUVERABLE!

Take a look at Starcraft, the quintessential RTS game. Building-busting units like the Terran Seige Tank and the Zerg Guardian (the flying unit which have a long-range air-to-ground, but no air to air attack. Evolves from a Mutalisk) are both SLOW! they need escort and support...kind of like the Gorge does now to do its job! Hell, the Seige Tank can't even use its long range attack unless it enters seige mode and becomes IMMOBILE!

I don't know on what servers you are playing on, but I think the lerk has still a support role. Umbra is very effective when your team is doing a baserush with 2 fades or an onos. Adding a bilebomb attack for the lerk is not very nice. It would make the lerk to an object of mockery (hahaha loook !! he's gonna drop his **** a gain )

Celerity lerk=HMG avoider.

Adrenaline fade = HMG ammo waster.. and these would also be present.

question can a fade standing near two mc's with adren and regen near 3 dc's with a gorgie healing him and useing metabalise, take as many hmg bullets as a hmger could if a hmger would unload into him

No, the question is will the HMGer be accurate enough to track and kill a constantly blinking Fade who can metabolize in mid-air to never run out of energy before he runs out of bullets?

Aliens with celeirty are notoriously hard to track and their hitboxes are messed up. The point is, the lerk is already good at doing fly-by spores. Imagine what a lerk can do to a marine base with none or maybe one marine guarding. With the speed of the lekr,t he comm would have to beacon CONSTANTLY becuase the base is ALWAYS at risk of being destroyed.

the base is always at risk of a attack, even in the end game with rines winning i have still proven tiem and time again i can get out past the rine to ther ebase and smack there orbs for six

err no the fades not moveing i jsut want to know how long and how man hmgs it would take to kill that fade, unlimted metabalise and heal omg it would take for ever

If one Fade just stands and metabolize, and has regen, and has a gorge constantly healing, and the marine has an hmg? I think one clip can still kill the Fade, assuming the marine doesn't miss.

i dont know how much damage does a HMG do third lvl and how much hp does a unlimited metabalise do with unlimtited gorgie healing, with dc's +regen

we should test this, just for a laugh