Recently I've seen a lot of people asking about how mines should be placed around the IP's etc.

The first thing you have to realise about mines is that they are not there to defend the base, that's the marine's job. Mines are there to protect spawning marines and give them a half decent chance of killing a skulk in the base on their own.

With no mines, a skulk will be thinking 100% about where the marine is, where he's looking and how to kill him.

With a relatively well placed mine pack, the skulk is thinking about where the 4 mines are, how not to hit them, and has 5 things to worry about killing him instead of 1.

That is the reason mines are there, so that base rushers will mess up and land on a mine when a marine is shooting at them. They are definitively NOT there to defend the base on their own.

Here is an example of how to place mines on an IP.



Notice that the mines are not placed on the IP itself, but are placed in close proximity to it, this is so that the skulk less room around the IP which isn't close to a mine.


Now I'll give some examples of other useful places to put mines.

Phase Gates





Any good com will prefer to mine a PG than TFac it, and its usually best to place the mines in the same way as the IP examples.

However, as the picture shows it is possible to hide most of the visible mine model inside the PG. It is quite possible to hide the entire mine inside the PG, I left it half out to show you where to place them.


Resource Towers






This is a little known trick, but you can place the mines so that they are hidden under the legs of the RT model. This makes them almost impossible to see if you are moving any faster than a walk. Place 2 mines in the back legs of any RT and I can guarantee that you will score at least a few kills.



You can also place a mine or 2 on the central nozzle part of the RT, which could be kind of problematic for any skulks hoping to much it.


Aggressive Mine Placement


Sometimes on a pub you'll find yourself with a few spare mines, or being told to place mines to harass the other team. These are a few pointers as to how to place mines aggressively.




Placing mines in front of doors like this means that any skulk running blindly into the room will hit the mine before they even see it.


Another good place to put mines is around blind corners so that skulks who don't strafe check around will simply run into the mine before they have time to react, again a few examples.






5 Top tips from Windelkron
1) underneath "lips" in level geometry - this is an example of mining near MS


2) underneath "lips" in level geometry - in an out-of-the-blue spot. in seldom used hallways like
these, enemies will not be careful.


3) on stairs - EXCELLENT trick. I've killed onos in 1 step with these (needed 2 packs, though)


4) above ramps. This seems silly, but it works incredibly well - they just can't see it from the bottom.


5) creative mine placement - think how fast skulks come bounding out of caged's Sewer hive...
right into this mine.




Mine Ladders

Placed mines can be stood on, this allows you to place a diagonal row of mines like a set of stairs, which in turn allows you to reach vents etc which are normally unaccessible to the LA marine.









Well, that's my Mine Placement guide so far, comments and suggestions please and I'll try to update it to reflect what I missed/got wrong.

(sticky?)

Credits:
SpaceJesus (meh)
Windelkron (for some neat aggressive mining examples)

Yeah man good examples, especially with the RT's and PG's.

Commanders should use mines more regularly, this will help nub marines on placing them,

mines ftw dont waste res on getting a tf and turrets.

and also dont forget u can place mines "in" the res nozzel and the are half hidden as well

::EDIT:: Updated screens (IP and RT) and new section added (Agressive Mining) ::EDIT::

I'm having a hard time seeing how mining the ip like that is better than if you were to lay it on the ip itself.

If you spawned with a skulk attacking you what's the first thing you're going to do? You're going to move, and that placement gives the largest area around the IP, which in turn gives the marine the most time to shoot the skulk whilst dancing between the mines.
If they were simply planted on the IP itself the skulk would jump, bite the marine, the marine would move away from the IP, and the marine would then have next to no help to kill the skulk.


The point is to give the skulk more things to worry about killing him than just the marine. The idea is that the skulk tries to dodge the marines fire, and lands on a mine, which is extremely unlikely if the mines are only placed on the IP itself.
and to quote my original post:

"The first thing you have to realise about mines is that they are not there to defend the base, that's the marine's job."

*bump*

any chance of a sticky?

On the rare occasions when I command on public I place the basestructures in a corner "far" away from the CC. If someone tries to bite anything, I jump out. One well placed minepack is always good to have though.

Nice placements.
When i looked at the pg picture, i didnt even see the mines first

I defiantly mine agressively in CO maps, works so good.

I didn't know you can hide mines inside of structures. That's pretty neato.

Will add a mine ladder section tomorrow (its 4:00am here in the UK) with the appropriate pics.

Anyone think this is sticky-worthy?

hmm those are pretty good mine placements imo.

but the first picture with the three mines around the ip...that's kind of strange. (I think if you place the mines closer it might work a little better?).
If the ip is far away from the com chair and lets say skulk comes to chew on it, the com can jump out of the chair causing the skulk to freak out or something and hit the mine.

O and the picture of the opening to teh hallway where the mine is on the right side...hmm...placing the mine in the center might fare better. Really dependent on what is coming around the corner. If its a skulk, he might hit the mine if its on the side. A fade might not since they usually blink either towards the center of the doorway or the ove the mine.

Onos will probably just hit everything..

I think the issue with the ip example is more one of the ip being placed in a in an wide open position than incorrect mine placement. The location of that ip has no serious influence on how the skulks will need/want to approach it so it can't really be efficiently defended.

Aside from that this is great advice about mines, I think every new player (and some old ones) would do well to learn about mines being the second line of defense.


Another useful fact regarding mines is that alien spawn point locations are written into the map so round to round in a given hive the spawn points are always in exactly the same spots. If you learn these spots you can put a mine there and a new skulk will explode before he even knows he is alive.

Which may lead to you getting banned from some servers for spawnkilling. Always check the rules.

I just hope CHeezy Peteza didnt see this thread
Frags, Res and Skulk! i mean dead skulk

This thread is a guide on how and where to place mines, not the advantages/disadvantages of using them, nor is it a guide on how to place buildings properly.

I agree that IP's need to be placed in a wide open area away from walls etc, but what I am trying to show is how to best employ mines once the commander has given them to you.

I know I'd much rather have an IP mined if I'm going to be spawning there with a skulk or 2 trying to munch me.

*bump*

I have some issues with this mine placement.

To mine an IP you should place them on or as close to the ip as possible. You can cover it with two or three and leave no spot for the skulk to munch, whereas that ip has four spots a skulk can munch on. I know you're going to say he can't dodge a marine because if he moves he will blow up, but in that case why place the mines any way? A skulk can't hide behind an ip.

That leads neatly to my next point, which is that you need to take into account the sight lines in a room. A single pack of mines and a single spawning marine should be able to instantly kill any single skulk in the room. The commander should be able to cover the ip. Place the ip where you will be aiming right at it when you hop out of the chair. Place the armory in the middle of the room. Place the upgrade structures against walls and within sight of the ip. Place mines against the back side of every building (backside respective to the spawning marine).

As far as mining rts, I like to place two mines on opposite sides of the rt directly on the nozzle model. If you place it far enough from the gas but still within the model you can hide the entire mine in the model and it will explode if a skulk tries to munch it.

Mines can be used to kill fades. It's pretty rare that mines will finish the fade but frequently they'll allow you to nail him in the back as he's fleeing. To do it, think about where on the map you always touch ground when blinking. In ns_eclipse, right inside the doors is great since you have to stop blinking while the doors open (usually I won't place these until after the fade is in the room, so they explode when he leaves). On ns_origin, I place mines on the vertical section of the stairs leading out of marine start. Also on origin I place mines right at the bottom of the small elevator in cargo.

I always shoot for a 3 kill average with a pack of four mines. I do count kill assists since hey thats fair right? Think like an alien and you'll get lots of mine kills.

I intended this as more of a pub players guide, I am aware better methods are about, but I'd rather educate 100 people on how to place mines relatively intelligently than teach 10 to place mines like a CAL vet.
Although I agree with some of your points.

When you spawn, you usually can't react to the first bite. So they jump, bite and land ON the ip. Wouldn't that be correct?

Unless you have lightning fast reaction times, or the skulk is exceptionally slow, you're not dodging that first bite, and he will land on the ip unless he suddenly leaps out of the way in midair. He might not land on it, but he'll clip it one way or another.

A very nice guide, some nifty tricks I hadn't heard of before.

Next time would you consider resizing the shots down to 800x600?



--Scythe--

I'm adding the mine ladder section today (honest!).

Also I'm gonna start work on a pub commander's guide to ns_veil sometime soon.

i just hate it when marines put a mine in the middle of a ladder (especially if it is a crucial one).. like the ladder which leads to the reactor room in ns_tanith.

from then on marines just can't get up it!! or am i missing something here? (assuming it's a server where there's no friendly fire)

either "read the guide when he has written it"
or "read his guide when it has been written"



Stamping down on the scum of the universe ....... bad grammar and the misuse of apostrophies.

Added Mine ladder Section, I really think this needs to be stickied

excellent help section.

Spread out placement around that IP is great, skulk either explodes or gets telefragged. Rez node placements are nice too, i didn't think about putting them under the legs.

Sometimes I command and sometimes I do the grunt work as a marine, regardless, I always run into people who just don't know what to do with mines and it angers me. It kills me when I drop 2 packs of mines and I scream for them to be placed at a node or phase gate, and they just seem to disapear. Other times when we just finished a phase gate into a hostile hive and I yell for the com to "drop mines in base for the phase gate!!", and no response, not even a reason why not. He should have had two people ready to go with the mines before the phase gate even finished.

Also, back in the day i remember laying "onos" and "fade" traps: a pack of mines all placed directly ontop of eachother. When the same fade keeps coming back to pick on the same rez node and I ask a marine to lay a "fade trap" using the mines, i tell him to place them all ontop of eachother but 9 times out of 10 they end up spread out, usually not even at the resource node in question.

Do these traps still work? how many mines does it take to kill a full health fade or onos? It's probably more than 4, but that onos or fade probably isn't at full health so it might still die outright. If it lives, it's near death and REALLY confused, your marines can kill it. Yeah, a skulk can suicide into the mines, but that doesn't happen all that often. Anyone know the answers to the 'mine trap' questions?

As far as I know, around 6-8 mines will bring a full health regen fade to about 125hp, add to that a shotgunner who can do 170dmg per shot at w0...

I remember fade and onos traps back in the day

you can't place mines ontop of each other anymore but you can place them very, very close together.
Big point is you should put them in the middle of a doorway, or where there is a low ceiling, as this makes it very hard for the fade to blink over the mines.

I have seen these "traps" work, rarely. It all depends on how smart the fade is. I've seen bad fades get torched by hand nades and knifed into submission, but I've also seen hive 1 fades decimate squads of w3/a3 HMG'ers.


Personally I'd rather drop a few shotguns (for the same cost) on a pub, because these are more likely to be used well. A lot of pubbers simply won't know what a "fade trap" is, or how to implement one.
Added to the fact that shotguns are infinitely re-usable for taking down fades whereas mines are not.

Add to that that when fades turn up, hive2 will usually be going up, or finished. At hive 2 mines become redundant as gorge bilebomb and fade meta can make short work of any "fade traps" and of any base defences.

However, around the 4 minute mark, spreading mines out in the open areas of your base can deal a helpful hand in taking down fades. As any fade has to land sometime, they usually blink very low when they are going to swipe a marine, and will either land on a few mines or clip a few, with a couple of shotgunners dealing with the fade it should go down fairly easily. Even easier if you CC block the exits.

Mines are kinda expensive if your trying to use them to help with fades... A shot gunner is money better spent to kill a fade, but vs anything smaller then a fade mines are very potent...

Since knock back exist most good marines will try to jump when the spawn, that either gives them time to find the skulk or if the skulk finds them, it gives them the range to kill the skulk, or the skulk hits a mine chasing him... On the IP = bad... around the IP like shown is effective and helps with general base defence...

If it takes 6-8 mines to almost kill a fade then I know what you mean when you say a shotgun is better spent... that number seems extremely high.

Honestly, I think that if 7 mines explode and the fade is at or near the epicenter then it should be reduced it to giblets, even if it has carapace. At 6-8 for a wounding blow... are these landmines or firecrackers? Sounds like they need a near 50% damage boost to be effective against anything except a skulk...

reckon i'll head over to the suggestions forum and complain some...

Honestly, this thread deserves a sticky. It has valuable information, helpful pictures, and is newbie friendly.

Mines don't kill fades. Marines kill fades.

If you're bored, you can try this: Replace 'Mines' with any other statc-type defense and it'll still work! Genius!

not always. at a siege spot its always useful to drop mines. everywhere. you can get 3 packs of mines at the cost of an elec rt, and i think at that time the mines will be more useful. unless they happen to get bilebomb :B but then you'd be screwed anyways.

I don't like defensive mining (around IPs)... I'm very much a fan of aggressive mining.
Here's a few shots of some tricks of mine:

1) underneath "lips" in level geometry - this is an example of mining near MS


2) underneath "lips" in level geometry - in an out-of-the-blue spot. in seldom used hallways like
these, enemies will not be careful.


3) on stairs - EXCELLENT trick. I've killed onos in 1 step with these (needed 2 packs, though)


4) above ramps. This seems silly, but it works incredibly well - they just can't see it from the bottom.


5) creative mine placement - think how fast skulks come bounding out of caged's Sewer hive...
right into this mine.


feel free to add these to the first post if you want to.

Thanks for the pics, editing them in now.

(I wonder if a mod has even read this?)

Who cares if a mod reads it?


If you haven't already, stick a link in the "Links To The Guides And Faqs" thread. That thread is pretty useful because it links to virtually everything you need, in fact if any thread would need sticky then it'd be that one.

space, you can still place mines on top of each other, but you have to place them exactly on top of each other and you have to point straight down.

Since most people assume you cant stack mines i get a lot of "WTH? was taht one mine!!111!!!"

I'm pretty sure it doesn't register. You lose your mines this way.

Often, I'll hop into a vent and place mines in it. It's impossible to avoid mines in a cramped vent, so you always get a few kills, and better skulks will be stopped in their tracks. Plus onoses and fades don't go into vents very often, so all the more kills.

Just make sure the mines don't block marines from walking through

I think parasite can kill mines now.

Nah I don't think so, parasite switch fun and mine detonation seem to have been removed.

Or so I recall.

nooo...can't be!

it'll suck for marines if parasiting mines would detonate them..

parasite can't kill mines, I'm not sure whether spit can though ...
sidenote: stacking mines = not possible i tried it; if youre sure it is, screenies?