ive quit NS over this since i can't play aliens. Against marines who know how to aim its hard to win as a skulk.. and once they get motion sensors its nearly impossible (unless you just camp/ambush them but doing that won't win games)
Then people tell me you have to bunny hop. Well i must have some sort of mental/dexterity disfunction because I just cant learn how to bhop. I can try for what seems like forever and end up getting one "loop" jump out of it in which I actually accelerate. This is also why I quit TFC as bhoping is hands down essential to everything.
Full Version: Seriously Can Someone Tell Me How To Bhop As Skulk
You dont have to know how to bhop.. I cant bhop and I do fine...
Skulks you should never run at a mrine anyway.. bhop or not.. Just set up ambush and hold them off till you have fades.. When you have fades.. Let them blink in first then follow in behind.
As for learning how to bhop.. You strafe left jump look left. When you hit the ground you strafe right jump look right. You should be holding duck all the time. And YOU NEVER HOLD FOWARD...
Ive been practicing.. I can manage to gain a little bit of speed but not much.
It also helps if you bind jump to mwheeldown or up.
Skulks you should never run at a mrine anyway.. bhop or not.. Just set up ambush and hold them off till you have fades.. When you have fades.. Let them blink in first then follow in behind.
As for learning how to bhop.. You strafe left jump look left. When you hit the ground you strafe right jump look right. You should be holding duck all the time. And YOU NEVER HOLD FOWARD...
Ive been practicing.. I can manage to gain a little bit of speed but not much.
It also helps if you bind jump to mwheeldown or up.
To clarify:
The timing is really, REALLY hard to get if you just jump normally, since any ground friction at all kills the air-control speed increase. Thus the mousewheel bind/jumpscript (whatever you prefer) is used to start spamming jumps right before you land, so you don't miss the timing.
The timing is really, REALLY hard to get if you just jump normally, since any ground friction at all kills the air-control speed increase. Thus the mousewheel bind/jumpscript (whatever you prefer) is used to start spamming jumps right before you land, so you don't miss the timing.
If you have nothing to say, don't say it.
| QUOTE (Harpoon @ Jun 24 2004, 01:33 PM) |
| ive quit NS over this since i can't play aliens. Against marines who know how to aim its hard to win as a skulk.. and once they get motion sensors its nearly impossible (unless you just camp/ambush them but doing that won't win games) |
skulks dont win games anyway...That's why you have onos and lerks...and most importantly, fades.
tbh just play smarter and you can kill anything, dont let frustration affect your playing ability...
before more new players read this thread and decide they need to undertake bunnyhopping as the only means of becoming a decent alien, let me provide an alternative
learning how to bunnyhop isn't going to land you mad kills as an alien right away. it's a good tool to get across maps quickly or run away, but that's about it. there is, however, an exception to melee which stick further down in my post so you actually read it lolol
unless of course you're convinced you'll only be playing against bad players
if I was a smart guy i'd say that the second most important thing is to learn how to easily minimize distance to the marine by either confusing him or by using stealth to drop on him. you've heard it before: get your timing right, learn how to ambush, use marine footsteps to your advantage, etc.
if I was an even smarter guy I might say that the most important thing is the actual "WTH do I do now that i'm beside him".. which will come with a lot of playing experience and time. you need to learn your controls well in order to move with the marine when he starts freaking out and strafe jumping all over the place
time, movement, aim, and a unique playing style, are really more important than knowing how to perfectly bunnyhop as an alien as far as effective killing goes
and as for bunnyhopping in melee.. bunnyhopping or bouncing around eratically up walls/etc. while trying to bite the marine makes it a lot harder for the marine to hit you than if you were to follow him around in a straight line (prepare to die in 10 bullets), so don't be lazy
bunnyhopping like the pros who do it fast but in straight lines at players is actually easier to hit than someone strafe walking on the ground at you.. don't be fooled by the speed, it's a pretty dumb thing that caught on in competitive
learning how to bunnyhop isn't going to land you mad kills as an alien right away. it's a good tool to get across maps quickly or run away, but that's about it. there is, however, an exception to melee which stick further down in my post so you actually read it lolol
unless of course you're convinced you'll only be playing against bad players
if I was a smart guy i'd say that the second most important thing is to learn how to easily minimize distance to the marine by either confusing him or by using stealth to drop on him. you've heard it before: get your timing right, learn how to ambush, use marine footsteps to your advantage, etc.
if I was an even smarter guy I might say that the most important thing is the actual "WTH do I do now that i'm beside him".. which will come with a lot of playing experience and time. you need to learn your controls well in order to move with the marine when he starts freaking out and strafe jumping all over the place
time, movement, aim, and a unique playing style, are really more important than knowing how to perfectly bunnyhop as an alien as far as effective killing goes
and as for bunnyhopping in melee.. bunnyhopping or bouncing around eratically up walls/etc. while trying to bite the marine makes it a lot harder for the marine to hit you than if you were to follow him around in a straight line (prepare to die in 10 bullets), so don't be lazy
bunnyhopping like the pros who do it fast but in straight lines at players is actually easier to hit than someone strafe walking on the ground at you.. don't be fooled by the speed, it's a pretty dumb thing that caught on in competitive
I'll tell you a parable.
There was once a great clan leader whom everyone respected. He was an excellent fade and a very good marine to boot, but most importantly he was considered the best comm in the game. He couldn't bunnyhop if his sister's life depended on it. So he decided that he needed to know how to bunnyhop to compete. He got a script to help him with his jump timing, and before you knew it, he was the fastest skulk you ever saw. His skulk ratios started to improve a little bit.
But it was too late. He was addicted to exploiting the mechanics as much as possible. He bunnyhopped so much that he forgot how to ambush and bait. His ratios fell. Then they fell a lot. He got more scripts to make up for it. Pistol scripts, floorstrafe scripts, _special scripts, scripts for everything under the sun. He forgot how to fade. Then he forgot how to play marine.
But most importantly he forgot that the most important reason he used to be good at the game was because he practiced and practiced. He expected to be awesome whenever he played and when it turns out he wasn't because he never practiced, he got frustrated. And quit to play foo foo clickfest rpgs.
There was once a great clan leader whom everyone respected. He was an excellent fade and a very good marine to boot, but most importantly he was considered the best comm in the game. He couldn't bunnyhop if his sister's life depended on it. So he decided that he needed to know how to bunnyhop to compete. He got a script to help him with his jump timing, and before you knew it, he was the fastest skulk you ever saw. His skulk ratios started to improve a little bit.
But it was too late. He was addicted to exploiting the mechanics as much as possible. He bunnyhopped so much that he forgot how to ambush and bait. His ratios fell. Then they fell a lot. He got more scripts to make up for it. Pistol scripts, floorstrafe scripts, _special scripts, scripts for everything under the sun. He forgot how to fade. Then he forgot how to play marine.
But most importantly he forgot that the most important reason he used to be good at the game was because he practiced and practiced. He expected to be awesome whenever he played and when it turns out he wasn't because he never practiced, he got frustrated. And quit to play foo foo clickfest rpgs.
| QUOTE (Cypher- @ Jun 24 2004, 02:21 PM) |
| Skulks dont win games anyway...That's why you have onos and lerks...and most importantly, fades. tbh just play smarter and you can kill anything, dont let frustration affect your playing ability... |
You wont make it without skulks either.
Bhop does give the player a huge advantage. If there ever will be another natural selection for hl2 or on its own engine i hope they will remove bhop.
Think about it.. small evil puppies jumping around as if they have been taking some happy pills. It destroys the atmosphere.
| QUOTE (Afr @ Jun 24 2004, 03:27 PM) | ||
You wont make it without skulks either. Bhop does give the player a huge advantage. If there ever will be another natural selection for hl2 or on its own engine i hope they will remove bhop. Think about it.. small evil puppies jumping around as if they have been taking some happy pills. It destroys the atmosphere. |
someone will create a mod bhop for the half-life 2 engine somewhere. it's just about the best feature put in the first one.
It's a rare thing that I find a good bunny hopping skulk. It's even rarer that I've seen an amazing bhop clan skulk. In fact, I've only seen it once. I don't remember who it was, but it was on a combat map. I usually have decent aim (especially when I am not running a radeon 7500 with a virus that chews up all my system memory 
), but I stood absolutely no chance. A default skulk covered the distance in between us (a 50 foot hallway) faster than I could expend 15 rounds at him. And I had my eye on him the entire time. He came straight at me, too. I don't know if it was my lack of an amazing computer, but I was nearly speechless.
Bunny Hopping CAN help you attack marines. However, to actually get that amazing you really do need to either rebind all of your movement commands, script, or just practice bhop skulking every waking hour of your existence.
Or....
You could always learn how to ambush correctly.
And Kent, was that a story based in truth?
), but I stood absolutely no chance. A default skulk covered the distance in between us (a 50 foot hallway) faster than I could expend 15 rounds at him. And I had my eye on him the entire time. He came straight at me, too. I don't know if it was my lack of an amazing computer, but I was nearly speechless.Bunny Hopping CAN help you attack marines. However, to actually get that amazing you really do need to either rebind all of your movement commands, script, or just practice bhop skulking every waking hour of your existence.
Or....
You could always learn how to ambush correctly.
And Kent, was that a story based in truth?
| QUOTE (Afr @ Jun 24 2004, 03:27 PM) | ||
You wont make it without skulks either. Bhop does give the player a huge advantage. If there ever will be another natural selection for hl2 or on its own engine i hope they will remove bhop. Think about it.. small evil puppies jumping around as if they have been taking some happy pills. It destroys the atmosphere. |
NS already has very good atmosphere...I don't see how moving like that takes anything away from it, they're small, nimble creatures that already move quickly in the first place.
Im just wondering...but can you bhop?
Plenty of tutorials all over the web. You don't need to be able to bunnyhop to be a good player. Bunnyhopping increases speed and makes you harder to hit when done properly, if you aim properly in return then the aliens die just as well. It comes in handy, it isn't a necessity. If you quit ns over not being able to bunnyhop, that's sad 
.
.| QUOTE |
| he got frustrated and quit to play foo foo clickfest rpgs. |
WHY DO ALL YOUR FUNNY STORIES HAVE TO END UP BEING A LITTLE SAD AT THE END? I'M TRYING TO LAUGH HERE.
Also: right bhopping. I get shot up all the time now bhopping. If you learn to do it, you'll just get shot by better guys. Yes, bhopping lets you zoom zoom zoom and frustrate newber marines fresh from CS or DoD because it's so bizarre, but it's also somewhat predictable. There's a rhythm to it, and once someone learns to shoot that rhythm full of holes, you're back at square one re-learning how to ambush. Mebrillo is right about it being mostly for just getting places fast, and if that's the only thing you use bhop for, there are plenty of other ways to go places fast too. Vents, wallstrafing, wigglerunning, whatever.
Also, sometimes sticking on the floor is the best idea. Skulks are pretty low. shooting them is like shooting crouched players moving at high speeds. You can also switch direction abruptly on the ground, as well as doing all sorts of tricky infighting techniques that you wouldn't be able to do as easily while in the air. Strafing suddenly to one side then faking back the other way will throw off a few shots, and wallclimbing is very underused as an infighting trick too. I mean, there's so much more you can do besides bhopping.
Mostly just ambush. You're a skulk. Camp to get your kills. Yes it's lazy and seems cheap, but it's what skulks are the best at. They are tiny, they can use vents, and cling to walls, and they have a nasty bite.
If you want to relearn how to ambush, play servers running Nancy. There's never been a more skulk-friendly early-game map. There are vents that let you sneak anywhere on the map, it's dark and spooky, and you can break all the doubledoors by suiciding on them. Try it. Marines have to duck and move slowly to get through the cracks one at a time. This makes it insanely easy to bite their heads off by clinging on the inside of the broken door. When the door button gets pressed again, the doors reverse position, allowing marines to walk through, but still one at a time, making them easy meals.
Start your own server and go on a map like eclipse to start. Hold forward, then jump, then as you're about to hit hte ground make a 45 degree turn to the right and hold the right strafe. Then before you hit the ground again jump then 45 degree left. You should not be holding the forward key at any moment in this jump. All forward motion comes from the alternating from left and right. The bh script comes in for newer players because it spams jump 3 times so it decreases the accuracy needed to get the jump down. I'm not sure how I can explain it without showing it to you but if you get it all the power to you.
If not, come to #systemshock and pm me. I'll take you, and anyone who is interested, to a private server and I'll teach you guys the basics of bhing.
If not, come to #systemshock and pm me. I'll take you, and anyone who is interested, to a private server and I'll teach you guys the basics of bhing.
BHopping is useful, but mostly from an understanding point of view. Charging headlong into people still only works if they're around a corner or something.
To learn it, do a few simple steps. Start an sv_cheats 1 server, go gorge on a map with a wide open space (co_kestrel), make sure you have a standard issue triplejump script bound to either mouse2 or space and simply practice each part of it at a time (jumping without touching the ground - 30 seconds practice. Strafing and turning, 1-2 mintes. Jumping and strafing and turning finally, and in the end you add the jumping without touching the ground bit to the whole mix).
Also, for practice, lower your sensitivity to the point where you can maybe do a 180 with a full pull across the pad. Lower sensitivity lets you get a better feel for the right swing on your mouse to accelerate, and lets you see what gains you speed and what not. Once you understand you can always flick it back up.
To learn it, do a few simple steps. Start an sv_cheats 1 server, go gorge on a map with a wide open space (co_kestrel), make sure you have a standard issue triplejump script bound to either mouse2 or space and simply practice each part of it at a time (jumping without touching the ground - 30 seconds practice. Strafing and turning, 1-2 mintes. Jumping and strafing and turning finally, and in the end you add the jumping without touching the ground bit to the whole mix).
Also, for practice, lower your sensitivity to the point where you can maybe do a 180 with a full pull across the pad. Lower sensitivity lets you get a better feel for the right swing on your mouse to accelerate, and lets you see what gains you speed and what not. Once you understand you can always flick it back up.
a good way to learn is with no gravity. take of gravity and u will float. now u can move forward if u push it but u move VERY SLOW. so what you do is move your mouse smoothly from left to right as u straff from left to right. when you move mouse to left you straff left move right you straff right. once you get the mouse movement down turn on gravity and give it a try jumping. use mwheel to hop its alot easier and ita hard to get the hang of so if u really want to learn thats a good way to understand teh basic movement of the mouse. it isnt an easy thing to do for most so keep at it.
oh i forgot..... dont use forward to bhop... cl_showspeed 1 aslo with sv_cheats 1 on will show u if your going faster
and ita hard to get the hang of so if u really want to learn thats a good way to understand teh basic movement of the mouse. it isnt an easy thing to do for most so keep at it.oh i forgot..... dont use forward to bhop... cl_showspeed 1 aslo with sv_cheats 1 on will show u if your going faster
yeah, you can change sv_gravity to something like 200 and you will only have to jump 1/4th as much [stays in the air much longer.]
People who say that bhop won't make any big difference really need to see some of the madhoppers out there. For example the best bhoper I've seen is a constie member named MADLAX. It's friggin rediculess as he goes at 200km/h at you zigzagging madly. And yes his skulkratio(and only his usually) are positive compared to the other skulks doing it the "right" way trying desperately to ambush. So yes, if you want to do anything useful as skulk as the skill levels increase you will need to bhop.
***Moved.***
| QUOTE (XCan @ Jun 25 2004, 06:27 AM) |
| People who say that bhop won't make any big difference really need to see some of the madhoppers out there. For example the best bhoper I've seen is a constie member named MADLAX. It's friggin rediculess as he goes at 200km/h at you zigzagging madly. And yes his skulkratio(and only his usually) are positive compared to the other skulks doing it the "right" way trying desperately to ambush. So yes, if you want to do anything useful as skulk as the skill levels increase you will need to bhop. |
The people saying it won't make a huge difference are mostly clanners. Clanners don't play people who can't bhop. So, yes we see the madhoppers, and if they try that down a hallway and I can shoot 15 rounds before he reaches me he will be dead.
Some of the best bhoppers out there are exigent's and panda's (clans). They still ambush to get their kills.
Bunnyhopping should not be relied upon, if you get spotted by a rine and you know that running will make you die, go for the kill and try to bhop to him... otherwise, run 
| QUOTE (IceBaron @ Jun 25 2004, 03:48 PM) | ||
The people saying it won't make a huge difference are mostly clanners. Clanners don't play people who can't bhop. So, yes we see the madhoppers, and if they try that down a hallway and I can shoot 15 rounds before he reaches me he will be dead. Some of the best bhoppers out there are exigent's and panda's (clans). They still ambush to get their kills. |
The world doesn't revolve around clanners.
| QUOTE (Cereal_KillR @ Jun 25 2004, 09:27 AM) | ||||
The world doesn't revolve around clanners. |
w o w
What makes clan/pub relations in NS so vastly different from any other game? sigh.
| QUOTE |
| The world doesn't revolve around clanners. |
And your point is...?
Can anyone tell me how much speed you gain from bhop as a skulk?
In Speed / Ground Speed would be nice.
In Speed / Ground Speed would be nice.
| QUOTE (kavasa @ Jun 25 2004, 08:53 PM) | ||
And your point is...? |
Should the average joe always be owned by madhoppers with no chance to madhop himself?
Is pointing your gun at the Skulk asking to avoid being owned asking too much?
| QUOTE |
| Should the average joe always be owned by madhoppers with no chance to madhop himself? |
I hope that wasn't his point because every single clanner in this thread has expressed the opinion that bunnyhop is not primarily a combat skill, and that you get kills with good ambushing.
| QUOTE ([=Terra=] Ripley @ Jun 25 2004, 04:37 PM) |
| Can anyone tell me how much speed you gain from bhop as a skulk? In Speed / Ground Speed would be nice. |
You can go a bit less than twice as fast as the normal skulk run speed. 290 is the base skulk ground speed, 492 is the max skulk ground speed, but with bunnyhopping you'll probably average around 510-520, since the speed just resets to 492 every time you hit the ground.
I don't understand all of these people saying "don't rely on bunnyhopping" or "if you bunnyhop you'll somehow start playing worse". It's simply a useful skill to have.
Anyway, the person that talked about turning off gravity to practice the turning had a good idea. The outside of a map like hera could be a good place to do that.
Anyway, the person that talked about turning off gravity to practice the turning had a good idea. The outside of a map like hera could be a good place to do that.
So those of you who think bhop won't make any big difference, then what is your problem with the suggestions in restricting it?
I myself know that it gives an advantage and I don't deny that since I use it plenty myself.
I myself know that it gives an advantage and I don't deny that since I use it plenty myself.
Of course bhop gives you an advantadge, mostly in how fast you can get around the map... they are saying that if you're smart and don't bhop you can be a better skulk than a dumb (or less smart) bhopping skulk.
CS beta and NS were the only HL multiplayer I ever played, and I only played CS beta on and off for a few months at most.
Most of my multiplayer experience has been with the likes of Unreal Tournament and Wolfenstein. . demo lol
If you wish to be a good player, definitely work on the fundamentals. But I will now return to the point of this thread; this discussion about bhop.
I in fact, had never tried bhopping in CS. After a week or so in NS I decided lo and behold I must learn to bhop. So I read a guide.. which was not very helpful. It completely screwed me over since I started in about Dec 02 until recently where I had only a half assed bhop. I didn't play NS constantly; in fact I've been idle much more so than active. Nevertheless, I did not know how to properly bhop until recently, when - I read, that I should not to press the 'forward' key.
Lo and behold, bhop is motherfuckn easy. I had discovered it as soon as I had tried it, but because no one had told me never to push the forward key ( plus I didn't play as much as I could have, plus I never asked ) I went around with a bastard halfassed bhop for more than a year of Half-Life experience
Um.. moral of the story -
[1]train yourself, in a very skill based shooter. Then you will have basic skills and, if you have a feel for movement, it will bring it out.
[2] Bhop is actually, very easy.
[3] Don't press forward. >.< at least for basic, run of the mill bhop. I don't claim to know advanced techniques already
[4] Ask stupid questions, because if you don't, and don't otherwise address the issue, you'll stay stupid forever
Most of my multiplayer experience has been with the likes of Unreal Tournament and Wolfenstein. . demo lol
If you wish to be a good player, definitely work on the fundamentals. But I will now return to the point of this thread; this discussion about bhop.
I in fact, had never tried bhopping in CS. After a week or so in NS I decided lo and behold I must learn to bhop. So I read a guide.. which was not very helpful. It completely screwed me over since I started in about Dec 02 until recently where I had only a half assed bhop. I didn't play NS constantly; in fact I've been idle much more so than active. Nevertheless, I did not know how to properly bhop until recently, when - I read, that I should not to press the 'forward' key.
Lo and behold, bhop is motherfuckn easy. I had discovered it as soon as I had tried it, but because no one had told me never to push the forward key ( plus I didn't play as much as I could have, plus I never asked ) I went around with a bastard halfassed bhop for more than a year of Half-Life experience
Um.. moral of the story -
[1]train yourself, in a very skill based shooter. Then you will have basic skills and, if you have a feel for movement, it will bring it out.
[2] Bhop is actually, very easy.
[3] Don't press forward. >.< at least for basic, run of the mill bhop. I don't claim to know advanced techniques already
[4] Ask stupid questions, because if you don't, and don't otherwise address the issue, you'll stay stupid forever
| QUOTE (e.Nadagast @ Jun 26 2004, 07:00 AM) |
| Of course bhop gives you an advantadge, mostly in how fast you can get around the map... they are saying that if you're smart and don't bhop you can be a better skulk than a dumb (or less smart) bhopping skulk. |
True while I was going about bhop the wrong way, I at least knew how to dodge. If you can dodge, at least in the past, even those fearsome names with godly adjusted aim will miss you. Even though it might just be taking advantage of bugs ^_^
bhopping can help if you evade bullets just after u killed a marine by jumping off of a wall or ceiling. I usually bhop, or randomly strafe to the nearest wall, and it works alot of the time. Bhopping is ok sometimes, but randomly straffing while running away works better in most situations. Using Bhopping as a primary means to get kills is not a good idea unless you play on noob servers alot. Learn how to use obsticules and strafe to avoid getting shot.
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