I have noticed that there seems to be a lack of communication between mappers and competitive players. Mappers dont understand why their maps are not welcomed by them, and vice versa. Most of these reasons being that mappers carefully put aesthetic design and competitive players cares most of how the game will feel on this map. To understand a bit more the how and the why of competitive maps, i have created a prototype guide designed for mappers, that use a simple tool, called spider-view graphs to enhance your maps from a simple layout.

When completed, I hope this will help a bit the task of mappers, and so they can focus entirely on artistic process rather than map balancing.

Here it goes

(sorry for all grammar faults i am not english native )

[LAST UPDATE 15th may]

I think I will be needing this info

Great job!

Thats a very good read, and very well done. Cant realy fault your grammar either.

/me gives Draconis the thumbs up

I've been waiting something like this so many time... heh.

And that's why you should always create a basic or even final layout of the map your working on so you know how the balance would be while building

Very nicely put together!!! Good job

Nice one. GJ on the spider diagrams. Great guide. I think all mappers should look at this.

Brilliance =)

Helps me a _lot_ when making my overviews for NS maps

Very good

I had been doing a simplified version of these spider graphs for some time now, but this is much more detailed and explains the pros/cons if each type of design.

Great article!

-Sinter

*bump*

Sticky? Or link in the mapping guidelines?

Thanks Draconis
This will help on map layouts alot and overview, been a bit stuck on the full layout on my crap map.

Winnar

Think this should go into mapping guidelines for sure, maybe ns-world as well.

Downright brilliant insight on the topics you touch - although I disagree with the term "treelike" structures, simply because it implys dead-ends. What you're outlining in the "trees vs circle" argument is that more interconnection allows for more dynamic outcomes and more choices in how to achieve victory, as opposed to holding strategic monopolys by brute force.

Its simply your linguistics at fault though, it doesn't dilute the value of your analysis by one shred


SaltzBads worthless rating :
"Almost too good for the internet" (And discovering this a few years ago would have made my first attempts at mapping less disheartening )

Well as Chrome Angel has been adding new co_ features to ns world think any chance of getting this in.When i started mapping for ns the guide helped alot for nub like me, think this will be a nice addition, certainly give new mappers a little extra help

Thank you for the feedback guys! I will update the prototype this week end, and especially the tips for balancing a layout.

As Saltzbad pointed out, there are some terms like "tree-like" and "circular" which are wrong in a mathematic point of view (infact it is the opposite). My definition of lock down points was a bit goofy, and that definition covers it all. However i dont feel it necessary to flood it with math term, and imo the term "lock down points" is kinda accurate to what happens in game.

There is also a few mistakes made by my algorithm in the pictures shown (SAA in eclipse has disapperead for ex), but as a whole it doesnt change a lot. And also vertex could be a better word than node, that is a lot of time used the same that for res nodes.

Thanks for the feedback and i really hope that could help you guys, and renew the dialogue between competitive players and mappers.

In a side note, i search for updated minimaps (jpg/tga not in sprite version) of ayumi of veil; anyone knows where to find it?

Mmm, sticky goodness.

These instructions are nice but would have been better if published before the clashpoint reached during this affair. and this other one. Readers will certainly notice that you participate in both.

Anyway, i discover that a member of the clan who decided to remove great maps from the french league is now .. sticky (!!) and is encouraging a certain way of mapping that some other clans could dispute.


(i will edit this post with an argumented document )

I have now read that guide about 4 times. I must be either:

a) stupid
b) very slow to learn
c) lack a foundating understanding for ns maps
d) limited in my english

because I hoenstly did not really understand how u draw the spiderview nor how you interpret it and correct it in order to get the information out of it.

It does not mean that it is badly written, everybody else has understood what it is based on and how it works, the problem lies within me, but since I do not want to be left out on such an apparent good thing, I would love it if someone would find the time to explain it to me a little further with as few complicated words as possible.

Think of me as a young child, ridicule me, make fun jokes about me, whichever helps you, but if someone would like to take the time to explain that to me in a more simple way so I, as well as all the other mappers here, could take advantage of this, I would be forever thankfull!

Thank you in advantage for all the help I may nor may not get / DarkMantiZ

To be honest I understand everything except this line:

nice!

hmm i will update the guide asap to make it clearer. Thanks for the feedback

[EDIT: check the update of the guide ^^]

Nevermind. I must say I have learned to appreciate the gameplay value of maps after all this years. Sadly the atmosphere is reversly propotional to gameplay value. But without starting to repeat myself here's how my values and understandment of ns have changed.

All I can say job well done. So many people can complain about maps but few are capable of reasoning their thoughts. I have pondered how the gameplay value could be calculated and I must say this topic answered many of questions.

Very nice update. I was worried when I saw the technical definition at the start of the page, but the paragraphs following it did a fine job of describing this process in layman's terms. (aka I get it now)

Hi,

Very nice idea and I think there are some great pearls of wisdom in here. Connectivity has always been the most important part of mapping (in my opinion) and there are many things you can do to improve it. When I plan a map I do something very similar to your spider/node diagrams and then elaborate with architectural detail (all on paper).

I found it hard to understand some of the wording in the guide. In particular the explanation of lockdown spots had me re-reading it several times. It might be helpful to elaborate on those explanations or give a simple "how to identify X" stepthrough.

Thanks,

Meto

the center hive doesnt have a way begining in the marines start and all acesss to center hive will be for rooms have acess with flank hives i see alot ns maps with this efect( or all, im not sure).

very nice indeed~

Well done.

See also the sticky WIP in the General Competitive Discussion forum.

Just another post for those of you who didn't see the link in my sig. I didn't want to make a new thread just to say this so I thought I'd post it in the Mapping Forum just in case you missed it. I've recently been updating my Mapping Guidelines for Competitive Play.

It includes many tips that allow you to control the balance of your map without comprimising its ambiance. The vent theory is a particularly thorough section.

^^

I think you make alot of good points but the one thing that caught my eye was the

Marines and kharra can bhop up slopes and go damn quick...

I'm making my map and wanted to go through this again for reference. Hope it gets fixed, very good read the first time around!

me too

~~Still needs fixing.

Yeah, I hope it would get fixed. It was an awesome guide.

I've been in contact with his old clan and sent an email to his last known email address. Fingers crossed.

Hey there!

I will see tonight if i still got the files on one of my external disks and put them back online (fingers crossed). Glad to see NS is still alive btw

EDIT: link should be back up. Good luck everyone!

Fantastic!