Okay, it has been about six months since I was in my NS prime. I'm back and it seems things have changed since then and I learned this the hard way the other day. I feel like a n00b all over again, even though I've been playing this wondrous game since 1.0. I realize that upgrades and weapons and the like are far more vital than a TF but what's the problem with building one with a few turrets at a hive or double point if you've got the res? That ish is effective at keeping skulks away from your pretty RT's freeing up more 'rines to get the job done. Electricity works similarly.

Am I completely wrong in this? All I'm asking is if it is completely wrong to turret up a bit in the mid game if you've got the flow to do so. Please explain the logic.

cuz in early game turrets are a waste of key res

marines > turrets

Yo Niteowl! I've been on the OldF servers and IRC but haven't seen you. We should play soon. The game where I was...chastised, we'll say, was a pug. It didn't help that I was distracted by my neighbor coming in and out of the apartment but my teammates were particularly nasty. Anyway, I just need to get in there and get my feet wet...again.

See you soon, dude.

There is nothing wrong with few turrs in right place..
And contrary to what ApolloGX said, turrets are strongest in the begging of game.. if aliens have fades or onos turrets no longer mean something..

the thing is, fades and onos (gorges bile bomb for that matter) are far easier to come by these days.

So come 8 minutes or so into the game the aliens have the abililty to wreck your outpost without too much hassle.

Where as upgrades give the marines the ability to stop the higher lifeforms and stay untill the end game.

A TF outpost once destroyed is res gone.

A Pug is remotely competitive - the aliens aren't going to, like on pubs, wait 3 years til they have Fades. A strong offensive earlygame hence carries more weight than bloody turrets.

So you're slowing down the most important part of the game, and in turn bringing around the turret-wreckers unhindered. Wewt.

And its ~4 minutes tops for 3 RT fades to appear.

People in PUGs expect a higher level of play. Locking down hives is foolish, a waste, and overrated.

Well, turrets are easilycoutered by DCs, and since DCs are still always first...


With sensories however, its a different fashion. I usually need to lock down every singel RT node with 6 turrets, electricity and observatories if the game against 1 or 2 hive aliens drag on.

But since onos and fade are much stronger in 3.0 than in 2.0, especially against turrets (which werent fooled by the hitboxes). Id say turrets are bsically useless unless you can seal off both hives and a dual node in 5 minutes and starve the aliens.

In my opinion it seems like turrets are a waste of res. That res is better spent on armor upgrades, shotties, motion sensing etc. A turret deals 10 damage per round and shoot pretty slow (I think it's 10 damage at least) a LMG deals that in just one bullet and seriously has almost twenty times the fire rate. Even the worst player can land one shot every twenty bullets.

In a pub, I would place turrets not based on whether it's a double res or no, but based on location. Location is everything. MArines are slow, very slow. However, a well-placed phase gate defended by a few turrets and electrification (preferable at a node, but if not, that's ok too) will let your marines get to places (like hives) a lot faster than just running to them. I might even place an armory there. It'd be a forward base/staging area. Remember, your marines kill aliens. turrets are there to reduce the rate at which your phase gates are chomped.

I still think turrets early game are a waste. the resource you use to "lock down" should be used to
hand out shotguns or get ++. 3 marines w/ shotgun > tf + 2x turrets.

I once played a game on ns_lost with a VERY smart Commander. The Aliens had Sensory and a load of skilled players, we were getting plastered. However, electrifying our res really stopped them from progressing much. Moving in groups of 3-4 (even though a lone skulk could demolish that squad) we'd take out nodes and build our own, then elec immediately. We were still getting trounced, 2+ skulks and gorges munching on our nodes later on. What really swung the game around in our favor was locking down not res nodes, not hive rooms, not good defense locations.. but the pathways to each. Elec'd TF, Obs, 4-8 turrets in smart places. Expensive, yes, but the res we'd get from that Gorge or Skulk who thought he could run from Los Paranoias to Eternal Requiem with turrets bearing down on him was enough to pay for the costs.

So often you see Marine Commanders lock down hive rooms. It's a good strategy, but hive rooms are purposefully removed and usually only have two exits (Refinery and Feedwater on ns_bast being the exceptions that immediately come to mind). Aliens know that place is locked down and just go around. I've seen Aliens worried more about the marines locking down Temperature Control than both hives. Why's that? Temperature Control is the central point of the map. There are so many vents, entrances and exits, it really makes it hard to get around as a Gorge or Onos if the Marines have Temperature locked down. Same with Generator. Not because it's a frequently traveled point (I rarely pass it myself) but because it makes an excellent staging area and controls several res.

In short, try this out. If you have the res, create little mini-bases in often traveled locations (Chemical Processing on ns_tanith, the twisting Corridors between External Overlook / Temperature / Los Paranoias / Eternal Requiem). You're not keeping the Kharaa out of key locations, you're restricting them to often times a singular path from point A to point B, and locking that down can usually mean bottling them in. One or two marines with LMGs could probably do it if you're short on res. Try it out, let us know. :o

Yeah, Rush basically said everything.

This is something I so rarely see anymore that I was beginning to wonder if they did something to change it and make it impossible. Instead of just locking down the room something like a hive is in, lock down the approaches to them on the map. This prevents aliens from even getting in. Even if a lone alien sneaks in and puts up the hive, you're close enough (15 - 30 second run) so that you can send your guys to burn it to the ground. And since you've locked down the approach to the hive to maybe one large hallway, skulks have loads of trouble getting by to defend the building hive.

Some maps are layed out in a way that makes holding an otherwise unremarkable room located midway between two of the hives equivalent to holding both of them at once. The best example ever is in one of the oldest maps, ns_Hera. It used to be that if the marines were able to push all the way to Upper Processing, which is the room just around the corner from all of those computer banks, narrow catwalks, doorways and hidden vents, they held a position that allowed them to siege both of the hives from one large room with only a couple of large, bright entrances. You can't siege Ventilation from Proc anymore, but you can clear out a large portion of the hive room and give your marines a safe foot-path to enter the hive room from the water level with weapons.

Choke points are all over the place on some maps, and if you control them, you can control everything around them, hives, RTs, vent junctions alike. Places like that are the only places I really don't mind if the commander turrets up.

Otherwise, yeah, turrets can usually be expensive and weak. However, what they ARE excellent at is blocking larger lifeforms from killing the turret factory or the marines for long enough to shoot at them. Place a row of turrets at the far end of the TF's green field, using them to block hallways, and your sieges will live a little longer.

Doot dee doo..

[edit]

The concept is basically the same as when a gorge takes 40 res and spends it on 4 OCs, but puts each of them in a smart place where a marine can't just run down a hallway without being shot at by at least 2 of the OCs at a time. Instead of a wall, he makes a gauntlet which the marines can't get by alone, or without spending time to take down. Putting turret factories in key places with turrets that have the maximum possible shooting range makes a barrier that skulks simply can't get by, or which damages them beyond usefulness.

It's a sound idea. Put it to action.

When do you ever see gorges wasting 40 res on OCs....why not spend it on your second hive?

Well, I do that. Plan down 4-5 OCs to block a hallway that the marines constantly go down and such. Maybe 4 OCs and a DC or 2. No point in putting up the Have if in a few seconds Marines will be there to tear it down.

Turrets are generally a waste, with few exceptions to the rule...

But those exceptions still exist, makeing a well placed turret or 2 on a strong offencive (Like on top of a crate in cargo on tanith whilst siegeing)

I often see Tf's used more for portable electrisity fields then for turrets. Plop one down in a narrow hallway with a phase, and maybe 1 or 2 turrets. Or in the early game, to cover the IP's from skulk bites.

I've always seen turrets as more of a diversion then an offensive or defensive strategy. Each turret will delay the base loss by alittle. (from fades too) Fades can desimate a base over time, But if you place turrets in a circle around the elect. TF, he'll have to heal a few times (plus your marines might walk in on him half dead and finish it off with a pistol assult)

No, turrets are never worth it.

Mines are just better.

Yes lovely mines. Its wonderful to watch your commander shell off 10 res (or was it 15?) To have nice little suicide bombers all over your base. One acid rocket, one bile bomb. Every marine in the fasinity gets blasted. (and buildings)

Mines are good at hiding. Turrets are good at range and open assult (however weak those are) You use mines for traps and vents, you use turrets for delaying and diverting.

exactly, given the situation where your locking down a hive, what would be more ideal
turrets, or mines?
....
duh!

Let the and the make love.





PS - I have no idea what type of point I was trying to make...

Gorge and turret love leads to...


..


OMG SENTRY-GORGE!!

I love when coms do this in long games

Ugh, why don't you try handing out mines instead of turrets next time you siege a hive? (Make sure it isn't a hive 2 situation)

Trust me, they work much better than turrets.

Why the heck do people lock down hives? It's a waste of time and resources, that could be used towards pressureing their main hive. They arn't going to win a game by being constantly on the defensive- If you just go around throwing up defences, however, than you're more than likely going to lose to a half way coordinated alien team.