How do you guys continue to ambush even when motion tracking is up? Is it possible to be stealthy? Walking just doesn't work... your mobility goes kerplunk. Mt removes the alien's biggest strength (stealth and ambush). Walking removes another big strength, mobility.

So what do you guys do? How do you cheat the system?

You don't. You play with it. By the time mt goes up, you should have stronger life-forms to assist in face-to-face combat situations. Either you shift to frontal assault or you can hide motionless above some pipe for 20 mins. To an extent you can still ambush if you walk and be unpredictable in terms of where on the walls/ceiling you are. The circle of mt can sometimes be inaccurate enough depending on the marine's p.o.v. so that you could pull an ambush off.

And what happens if the marine team researches Motion Tracking within the first two minutes? I've personally never seen any two minutes Fades before, and I'm pretty sure they are quite rare. Basically, there is not much you can do to counter motion tracking. You'll have to actually rush the marines and work way more as a team.

I also find it stupid how there is a "Don't research Motion Tracking" thread in the Marine forum. Motion Tracking is one of the best, if the not the best upgrade in the game for marines.

Aye, and it's a pain for skulks when they go RT hunting only to find themselves killed by a 2-man LMG squad.

Your best bet is start to move erratically and unpredictably, and pray that your next chamber is a Sensory (contrary to belief, sensories are NOT that useless anymore)

Honestly, there really isn't a counter to MT other than Sensory....maybe except Celerity, but that only offsets the tracking circle by a few units and only works against people who don't have headphones and have their backs turned to you.

The best you could do though, is treat every corner like there's a marine there. That way you won't get caught with your pants down.

As soon as I finish completing my practices with BH I'll see what possible strategies there are to reduce the usefulness of MT.
One would be swarming movement but that would be teamwork.
The other would be unpredictable movement, like I said earlier.
And there are possibly a handful more of strategies left to be discovered.

Go from ambushing to rush with other skulks, gorges or higher lifeforms. Have a fade go in first, then have the skulks pick the kills up. You can still do some ambushes but only if you sit in one area for a few seconds. This level of communication is sadly to say not possible on "Most" pubs. You can still ambush, you just got to be ready for when a marine comes looking in your direction.

irregular movement.

If you jump up, down, left, right, etc.. then when you finally get in range he might mis long enough to get nailed.

As a skulk, I play about the same against motion tracking as against vanilla marines.


If you want to stand a chance of ambushing a halfway decent marine you need to be set up before he is in audio range of your footsteps. That means when the marine is 1 full room or more away you should already be stationary in position. Coincidentally, most marines do not have a great attention span for motion tracking blips unless they are "omg heading right for us". So the key is to get set up early. You will need to set up a little earlier against motion tracking, in case there are any smart marines. What you need to consider is: where will the marines be going 30 seconds from now? If you can correctly answer that question and get there first, you will actually ambush better than if marines had no mt. 99% of marines tend to beleive that if they can't see it on mt it doesn't exist. So in some sense, it is actually easier to ambush against mt, because the marine will be more suprised after mt lulled him into a false sense of security.

If mt is the first thing marines get, then you will have a little bit more time to prey on 2-bites-to-kill marines. Sure, mt will give your location away, but that doesn't lift the pressure when marines have to actually move into a room or area. If you're hiding in a vent or behind a wall, the marines are the ones that have to move in, not you. So mt is good for knowing where aliens are, but that doesn't mean you're invincible.

the counter to motion is sensory

also like using parasite to your advantage in some situations, use movement, make a marine look where you want him to

Motion tracking is a double edged sword really - on one hand any moving alien is "wallhacked". On the other hand, even the pros relax and stop checking the ceilings and archs for the skulks. And skilled skulks can take advantage of that, just stay still (don't move at all, don't even turn). That way you stay fully invisible to MT.
And SC is not as much of a counter as it is a nerf - sure you skulks will live longer, but the rest of the lifeforms will feel castrated until hive 3. And you don't win (good) games with just skulks.

-Only cloaked aliens by SCs aren't picked up by MT supposively
-Even if you -turn- you will be picked up
-Celerity messes this up but doesn't mess it up to the point of nullifying it....


All I have to say is, good luck if the marines can hit you with bullets....

Sensory counters mt. Focus will kill those marines in one hit because they have no armor, and sensory chambers will mask you from mt.

or not

use the blips to your advantage. Man when a skulk jumps right into you from the other side of the wall and the LARGE BLUE CIRCLE is in your face you can't shoot. Man i hate that.

how about running so fast that the mt can barely keep up and the marine will have an innaccurate guess of where u are,
(sneaking) (distracted) (distracting for skulk)

When I'm a marine with MT, I'm even more paranoid than before. Usually I'm lax as a marine without MT. But now with it, I know where skulks are and I know they WILL be trying to hide now instead of rushing me head on.

As for an alien counter, learn to dodge bullets like a Matrix Agent or die trying.

Problem with sens... is that it needs another hive.

But I'm gonna try the ambushing now.

If you're gonna really try ambushing, try and pick spots where you know marines don't look often (this excludes vents)

Trust me, when smart marines get MT, they get smart with hiding corners. And of course, be careful as to when you move. If you move when a marine is nearby, consider yourself dead if you don't get 20 meters away from him. This excludes the twists and turns of NS maps.

And the last, and most painful bit....do not move at all once you get into position. Just one stemp and your ambush spot goes byebye, and marines will look into that corner more often.

Like stated before staying still and camping a "heavy" traffic area is good. Also, the mt has a slight delay so try showing yourself and immediatly run away. Then immediately come back. MT will show you going away while you are actually coming back. They also have to be facing you. Come from behind or the sides(always what you should do since coming straight on against good marine is death mt or not).

Does a skulk walking ( holding down shift ) in a straight line get picked up by MT ?

when MT is up..usually i will act as a distraction while my allies sneak up from behind to attk.. :\

wow sounds like mt neeeds some under power tweekage

Motion tracking is fine the way it is i find that marines really get cocky with mt for example i always stop before going around corners becaue marines tend to fire at the corner if they see the circle so i wait hear the fire then rush in to get them because what happens to marines when they shoot of 20 bullets? They reload and thats the time i use to ambush them. this i the most effective way i use skulk lerk and fade. Same goes for GLs they shoot even before the alien gets into sight and GLs take a long time to reload.

When mt is up the bes thing is to use the mt to kill the marines, one skulk parasites and atracts the marines to an ambush already prepared. This is the best way to contramesure it. 2 Aliens stay still ambushing and another skulk or a gorge doesnt stop moving atracting the marines, this really works, they get against only one skulk to confident and if u guys are skilled 2 or three marines shouldnt be a problem from behind

Because MT > Sensory

Sensory= castrated fades/oni/lerks. And you don't win games with skulks and gorges. 'nuff said.

SC just means you have to keep them the hell away from that second hive until it goes up. its a defensive chamber.

go ms and destroy the obs , good skulks can do that

SC > MT > DC



example A :

Aliens tromp around the map, gorge drops DC's aliens kill marines blah blah, secon hive goes up blah blah, fades, blah, onos, blah MC, blah blah blah...

seems a tad recognisable eh?

Example B :

gorge drops SC,
Aliens like "wth? no way, sc?"
leet-pubber : "guys guys, just roll with it, utalize it"
Aliens : "fine ****"

couple gorges drop RT's and SC's around map, and spots marines (due to SoF) heading to a hive, he informs his teamates and they procede to sneak in, (with cloak) and start butchering the dropped TF/RT and marines. focus aliens can do whatever they want. Gorge puts up hive, and does gorge stuff . Fades go up the same time as the second hivedoes, somone drops DC, fades get SoF/Focus and Regen/Cara/redem? or what have you. aliens rip marines apart, etc etc. win for aliens, and marines get aq nice little Rapage.

Simple Simple Simple answer, tough to execute without a solid team sometimes though...

With Motion Tracking researched marines tend to have more confidence and advance at a more solid rate, with the quick expansion the base becomes less and less guarded, so with a solid group of fades or skulks (and maybe an onos if you have one) hit their Observatory.

The observatory is just about the weakest structure, one or two skulks will take it out in no time, and one skulk can take it out easy if the base is unguarded.

No observatory, no motion tracking (at least in the previous beta patches, I haven't played 4 yet).

Also, if they beacon the team back all the outposts become unguarded, therefore easy to take down as well.

If they research it right away, that means they didn't research something else (phase gates or armour) and that means the rines are pretty vulnerable.

Observatory is usually the first structure I take, even before the IPs sometimes, largely because it buys you time and prevents research on MT or Phase Gates until they rebuild it.

Hit the Obv. Easy to take down, and mucho advantages if you do.

If you go sensory, you HAVE to put up a big sensory network and get ALL (90%-100%) of the RT's cloaked. It's a team effort, going sensory requires knowledge and communication. Also, going sensory means that almost all higher lifeforms are USELESS until the second hive, so you should spend that res on the sensory network and RT's.

knowledge > skill

Wanted to add about the ambushing aspect, again teamplay becomes crucial.

Have one bait, and have a few fades or skulks wait in hiding, and use the chuckle ability.

Guarantee that any rine who hears that chuckle will point in that direction right away, leaving an angle open.

Another way is to ambush around defense chambers. Sometimes the motion tracking will track structures as well, causing much confusion for any marine dependent on it. Plus, the defense chamber will buy you that extra healing that will allow you to take out that rine (since he probably doesn't have armour if they researched MT right away).

If you don't have Defense then with other chambers have nice angles to use as well. Scent of fear would be my ideal choice if Sense is up, its a great counter since its basically the aliens equivalent. He sees you, you see him, just use skill or bait to out maneuver him.

If you have Movement chambers down, then celerity may help, but the best bet in my opinion is to hold them back as much as possible and save for fades.

If you don't have enough chambers down yet, that means theres a gorg somewhere probably laying down a ton of offense chambers. This is where baiting comes in handy. Use chuckle to get the rine chasing, and since he has MT he'll be following you, just hide around the corner and above near the offense chambers and when he runs after you, tracking that blip, he'll get hit a few times by the o chambers. Double back and hit the already weakened marine who's probably jumping away from the o chambers and he'll be dead in no time.

In the end, it does come down to skill. A solid alien can use the motion tracking to his advantage by tricking rines into a trap (baiting) or by thinning out the protection of key areas . Especially early on.

Hope this helps.

Edit: Someone posted about vents, which is a GREAT piece of advice. Vents are aliens best advantages when it comes to the map design. The only time it really helps the rines are when they have jetpacks, which is late game. The rest of the time, the marines are forced to play defensively around vents (welding them shut or keeping their guns pointed at them running by) while aliens use them almost exclusively for offense. Learn the vents. They are your friend.

Four countering MT the commander only needs to build to obs, not reaserch mt tracking, only 2 obs, and SCANNING!!, at least thats what my comm does, if sc, he builds another obs, and keep nealry the whole map scanned

i assure U aliens simply doesnt know how to react, btw he makes armor 2 first, then wpn 1, so the fades..... die cant kill us with focus

But only when sc is set up as first chamber

SC is great.. the first 5 min. After that a competent comm has got his upgrades & team sofar its a loss.

hope you get enought res for a hive in 5 min, cause after that chances are you won't get it.

Note on how MT can pick you up. Looking around while staying in one spot WILL NOT have MT pick you up. It's only if you accidently (or purposely) move that it picks you up. If you are cloaked and moving (holding SHIFT key as default for walk) MT also won't pick you up.

Motion tracking lets marine see MOVING aliens through WALLS in their field of vision. It does not blip moving aliens THAT ARE NOT BEHIND WALLS in their field of vision. Also, marines (while possessing the ability to spin around, check for blips, and spinning back to the front) do not have eyes in the back of their head.

There are many things you can do when the Marines have MT, even if you are a skulk.

#1. Make the Marines paranoid.
Fake 'em out. Hide above exits and move about. Now they know you're there. Chuckle a bit and WALK!! along the ceiling to some place else. Marine gets up the nerve to dash in and empties some bullets into the ceiling.. where you aren't. He's scanning the room because he thinks he's missed something.
He did.

#2. If you have Sensory, use it.
Cloaking hides you from a marine's line of sight. MT lets marines see beyond their line of sight, through walls. If you're in a room with an SC, and the marine is there with you.. you can hop as much as you want, dance around, chuckle.. you won't blip, and the sensory chamber keeps you from decloaking.

(Rant: Motion Tracking foils Movement more than it does Sensory. MT does very little vs. Sensory, actually. When you're running through a hallway and into a marine-filled room, they hear you coming. With Movement, you get Silence.. and they don't. If they have Movement, they SEE you coming. Every chance at surprise you had is now lost unless you're coming from the ceiling / behind, which is still a good tactic [marines can't see behind them.. and if they can't hear you, why would they turn around?]. With Sensory, you can atleast run up to the doorway, stop, and walk in. Marine has no idea what you're doing. This works even better if you run up to the top of the doorway, then walk down. This gives the Marine the impression that you're hiding there in wait. )

#3. As listed in the rant above, attack from the rear.
It's just like playing before MT. Marine hears you coming, but he doesn't SEE you coming. If you walk up, even better.

#4. Make yourself hidden in plain sight.
You only get blipped if there is a some form of solid obstacle (railings don't count) between you and the Marine, just like Parasiting / Scent of Fear. If you can hide yourself in a shadow (ns_bast, Refinery for instance), behind some hanging moss (ns_eclipse, Comp Core. I've parakilled Heavies repeatedly from the same spot with Adren.), or high on the ceiling (ns_nothing, Viaduct), there is a good chance you can move about without blipping. Of course, you'll make noise.. unless you walk. And if you walk, you won't blip in the first place.

#5. Don't rush!
If you're walking to avoid blipping, only move in one direction at a time. Do not strafe until you're at a complete halt. If you're moving forward and strafing, you will occasionally blip. Also, try to turn slowly while walking, and if you're EXTRA careful, stop before you turn. There's a rumor that turning quickly will blip you. I'm not sure if I believe it, but I've seen some strange things.

#6. Rush!
Screw planning. Blitzkreig. Aliens set up alot of ambushes. Marines know this. Marines are cautious. They crouch low and get out their pistol, ready to pop you when you slip down to parasite or get a good look. Just run in there before they know what's going on. Run with buddies. They can't shoot down four of you.. can they? (Try running in one after the other and branching off. Moving in a big cluster allows each bullet to have a better chance of striking you. If the marine is concentrated on one skulk (as he should be) then the other three will have no problem. Take one for the team, man!)

#7. Destroy the source.
Obs are one of my favorite structures on any team. When I'm a Marine, I bother Commanders to drop them near nodes and TFs while we siege. The Observatory is the tallest marine structure and also one of the cheapest. Standing on top of one of these suckers gives you immunity to Onos stomp. You may think this is a detriment to the alien team, but height is also an advantage for them! You can cling to an Observatory's side, up near the top, and munch on the dish without being elec'd if it is anything less than RIGHT UP ON THAT @#$%ING NODE. Their build order is important, too. As skinny as the Obs is, there is often little room near the TF after the CC, Arms Lab, two IPs, and Armory is nestled up close. Suffice it to say, most Obs aren't a trouble, electrified or not, as long as the place isn't turret farmed. You can probably hit the Obs and take it down with two turrets firing on you provided you don't get zapped once.

#8. Hope that I'm on your team.
Sensory Nets, anyone? Not a spot on the map that isn't covered by a Sensory Chamber. Bwahaha.

plus gestate time or including??? 2:45 is not common but once in awhile I'm able to do that in pubs. The best I have ever done was a have getting put up at 2:30 inlcuding gestating and travel time.

I'm a lazy boy so I haven't read most of the posts, but the one thing I can suggest is constant movement. The mt circle updates at intervals and not in real time, so if your always moving the marines don't know exactly where you are.

For instance if you want to ambush a door way, keep moving up and down the wall say to the left of the door. When the marine comes through he won't know if your up or down, giving you the chance of a vital extra second.

basiclly, when u got 2 guys, use another to your advantage, get him to go the other way, and he'll be bait, u wait and then when the rines go chasing after him, or just let their gaurd down attack.

Also, travling far places in fast times, using CTRL, thatll throw them off a lot, as they dont see u moving down, just 1 blip here, and another there the second later, ur somewher else really far away, creates and illusion.

As of early fades work very well...
i got a minute and a hlaf fade before, against nub rines, but that was luck, took out 9 rines in 40 seconds into the game, and another 3 and then gestated into fade, but it was ****, cus only hit and run worked, as of large groups can take u down easy when u have only lvl 1 upgrade early in the game.

pretty much the best thing to do with MT is attack from more than one angle,so they cant all focus on them

The counter to MT? Die.

sc counter mt you have to be in range of them but you can move and dont get picked up i know its unpraticle but to let you know..