Oh man, this pisses me off to no end, I'm serious.

STOP GOING WITH MT FIRST, YA NOOB COMMS!

I don't care if the 1337est of 1337 clans rush MT, it's simply not worth it.

Going MT first means an automatic 55 res down the drain, coupled with one IP, that's 75 res. You have time inbetween to get about 2 more RTs.

I don't care if you can know what the kharaa are doing/going, if you were any good, you'd know what they'd be doing in the first place. Since it's a big investment, it seriously puts a large downtime between the time you can either get upgrades or upgrade your armory.

Many games have a commander rushing MT, then we can see the movement of the opposing team. We didn't get our first upgrade until 7 minutes into the game and then they just got fades and raped us severely, we were fighting a defensive battle the whole time until we eventually lost.

I won't say that MT is not a useful upgrade, I'm just saying it's not useful during the start.

Feel free to flame me.

I don't think you would get any flaming if you didn't call everyone who gets MT first a noob...

Well, I have to agree that Upgrades usually have a higher priority than MT, because once Fades see the game Marines will need all the upgrades they can get. However MT very early in the game can be quite useful to hunt down gorges and help your Marines stay a live. By knowing the positions of nearby Skulks Marines will die less often and get more kills wich means more RFK for you, less for them. Also keep in mind that early MT is very useful if you want to use ninja PG because you can avoid Aliens.

If the commander wants to try such a tactic I will support him... after all I'm playing for the fun. Also while people are constantly complaining about how NS rounds are all the same / very repetative I think it is the best to encourage people to try new tactics (on both sides) instead of bashing them.

Sonja / Solaris

Can you stop putting "NO DESCRIPTION FOR YOU" with each of your topic titles?

It's an OK strategy, like apoc said. It revolves around a different playstyle and such. But I prefer to use my ears, they're almost as good as MT, and they're free.

Meh, with mt your team should easily be able to slaughter the skulks. Also you should already have armor 1 and weapons 1 upgrading by the time the fades come. It's a valid strategy... unless you weren't exagerrating about the part where the comm doesn't get any upgrades until 7 mins into the game, then that's because either the comm forgot to drop an armslab or you had an incompetent team.

MT > movement first

anyone can tell you that getting MT usually results in a huge boost to their kill ratio. not only that, it gives you a surefire warning if a skulk is approaching your position, so a single marine can easily build an RT on its own, etc. personally I'd take mt > a1 anyday. and i agree with apoc, your way isn't the only way.

While you build, things don't show up on mt. So, if you are by yourself, you have to stop building sometimes to check your surroundings.

This is very stupid post.. yes MT delays upgrades a bit, but with MT you have huge advantage on some maps against skulks.. I will gladly continue with going MT first on agora or even metal..

MT first can be very handy and useful. Solaris clearly pointed out why.

hmm dont know exactly how many of you guys are pro...
but ...i ll psot it anyways!

this is for everyone who wants to kill lots and lots of aliens with MT. Do the following:

- stay near their hive (i did this at ns_nothing at the corner from miasma)
- so aliens weill usually come very soon. but you are prepared!
- Hide behind the corner till the skulk enters the hallway (in ns_nothing its when they walk through this door from cargo)
- strafe around the corner aiming at the circle
- shoot
- hide behind the corner again

looks pretty simple...and works damn good. not sure if it does at clan wars but on pubs...i killed about 10 skulks with a buddy this way. without changing my position while cargo was their main hive. One (ONE!!!) skulk tried to attack us from behind using the other way from cargo but we killed him without problems (thx to MT) the others tried to run through the hallway (and one by one we killed them). this worked so fine...lol i had a stat of 8:0 (that was nice *g* and plz dont tell me "im l33t my score is always 999:0" 8:0 at the beginning is good for me!)

so...try this tactic at pubs (if you never saw it before) <---plz dont post "NOOB, i knew this before!"

i hope it helps you.

and to come back to the topic....If you kill so many skulks due to MT...isnt that good? brings you a lot of res-->a lot of RTs

so lon

Look at some pandas demos (not the playoffs) and then come back. They pwnt every skulk on the entire map. Kthx try again.

Agreed. Motion tracking removes surprise, the #1 weapon of the aliens.

mt is 35 res, dropping an obsv at start isnt wasting

Hmm armor1 still works fine. Just because you have MT wont mean youre invincible. Two bites are still relatively easy to get...Yes, i know, MT should make sure you dont get bitten, but its not always possible.

... And afaik, players have ears. in pubs, most skulks RUN towards someplace important making one hell of a racket, then suddenly stopping. You dont need MT to tell you theres a skulk waiting. Even if you miss your judgement of the exact skulk location, armor1 is sure to save the day...

This is, of course, taken from a pubs perspective. Most pub skulks arent clever enough to make sure they dont make noise while approaching the ambush position, or walk up to the marines. Apart from these few situations, i doubt MT helps as much in early game as armor1 does. MT is indeed a great boost/asset, but not above armor1 imho.

MT first guariteed will-

25 res to spend from the beginning, research will take until the first minute and you will be able to get 1-2 RTs or get an Arms Lab and wait for res from RFK...

Basically: MT first will harm your ability to go outside for ever so long on a pub, since 90% of NS are Pubbers we are going to exclude clan players on this post now.

Skulks can sit perfectly still, not turn, and then will not be picked up on radar, gorges already died quite easily...

I suppose though pubbies will have perfect aim, go in groups against the single skulks that run in a straight line against the marines guariteeing RFK.

No, they will go in pairs, you may have 1-2 excellent players without a stack going on while your team solos or rambos to their doom.

Then....if you magically get RTs that aren't destoryed, A1, WP1 going up at the 6 minute start then you win no matter what, but if you have just began WP1 expect hungry fade(s) and a second hive.

The skulks can parasite you but I doubt it due to being a pub.

An early rush on your base is a devastating thing also as the Observatory is.......ever so fragile, 2 skulks could easily chow it down before beacon or destory it as the marines are teleported in, as long as they don't trip any of your mines.

On pubs it has it's uses, but a pubbie also likes his A1

It's been said before..

It's a valid tactic.. it's not the only one available, but it is one that can work just like any of the others..

Personally (from rine perspective) I like armor 1 less than MT .. MT allows me to check movement on map, find right places and simply HUNT skulks..
As a comm im going with MT first only on some rare maps, like agora, because, simply put, my experiences show me that its usually worth there. By the time MT is on, they have armor1 going too..

I think rushing MT is a waste and I would rather have armour1 over it any day.

MT simply does what any person who actually uses sound to their advantage can do anyway. However, getting MT at around 5-7 minutes is very helpful at tracking enemy rushes and planning your attacks.

I was the comm for negative, the CAL-O playoff winners. I find MT VERY useful in the early, late game it's almost useless. The key is the build/upgrade order and you can still even get weapons 2 going by the time fades come around depending on the map and if the aliens get any res. MT only updates so often so you still have to combine sound with MT to be the most effective. However seeing what the aliens are doing is an excellent way for a competant commander to figure out what to do next and what to attack next.
I'm pretty sure pandas use it most of the time, not sure if exigent does.
The problem is not getting early MT, it's whos in the comm chair that makes the difference there.

Dont forget MT works on 3 levels:

1) allows marine to detect exact position of skulk on close range (like you see that skulk hid on the ceiliing and is ont the left side).
Yuc cannot have such advantage with just listening

2) allows every marine to see tactical situation on map (like see that skulk breached "blockade" and is heading towards RTs) and they can act upon it.

3) allows comm to see situation exactly and prevent sudden rushes, this is VERY important in late time..

You will be able to see a group of aliens moving together. What hive they are getting. What they are trying to do. No ambushes no getting bit from behind. If you force the aliens to come at you from a distance and good marine wont be bit. If you can look at the map to see if an alien is next to any rts you can protect your rts without elec and kill gorgs and alien rts built. Armor 1 is "45" res while motion is "55". I think in pub armor 1 is definently the way to go b/c most people can use MT to the fulliest. In a clan match with elite players MT is better.

I can see easily where taking either tech path would be useful. I would think that in the smaller, more confined maps armor would be more useful immedately. Maps with fewer vents would make this especially true. The grunts on the ground would basically just need to watch their corners and cover their buddies, something they should be doing anyway (yeah I'm laughing at that too). On the larger maps I can see easily how MT would be very useful. I can't count the times as a marine I was able to spot, watch the MT circles move and be able to tell from the speed of the circles and the map, what kind of alien was where and a rough idea of what they are up to. A slow moving dot that hardly moves up and down, its probably a gorge. A fast moving dot that goes up and down a lot, probably a lerk or fade. Fast moving and going all over, probably a skulk. You get the idea. 5 seconds of watching and a couple of brain cells used and you can find that nice easy to kill gorge quickly while avoiding the 3 skulks hiding in the elevator shaft.
I would ask that people (again) try it out! Its great that people has first hand experience having it work both ways but, what is really needed is a lot of attempts with a whole lot of variable used. If we can gather a LOT of information we can look for bigger patterns into what works best. Try out the MT strategy 10 times in a row for different maps and see how easy things are. Then try it 10 times going along the armor tech path, are things easier?

I usually end up dropping an Arms Lab and an Obs, grab Armor 1, and then my next upgrade is phase tech when I feel it's about time for it. I don't often get motion tracking til later in the game, maybe thats a mistake, all I know is Armor one is my savior... And by not getting motion as quickly as mentioned, I can grab Armor 2 and give my Marines a little extra chomping time.

I'm still a newbie so this whole strat may be silly.

But I do find motion useful, specially when you are trying to predict where the aliens are headed next.

MT is not a pub upgrade to get first. Most people dont think hey that dot is moving slow oh wait it stopped next to a rt...Well anyways I will run into three fast moving dots by myself. lol

(do I need to translate: gorg is next to rt 3 skulks are in marines chosen path)

MT owns everything. I would rather know exactly where they are coming from than damage upgrades. I don't plan on needing extra damage (lvl 1) because I am a good shot and can kill them before they get to me.

AMEN!!!!

MT works best when you pressure their res using it. It's most effective for this purpose imo.

In fact, i'm not even sure what the counter to it is early game. Possibly sens.

(MT + armor 2 + meds + weld my body, sexy) before fades = you are the champion.

kent, you left out EAX, 3D sound and good hearing.

EAX is for fewls =<

MT first is really good, but my only dig is that by the time it comes online, it's already 2 minutes into the game. That's another 2-3 minutes to a fade. If your team was good enough to cap and hold rts to get upgrades within the first 2 min, they are probably good enough to win any game with a decent comm.

Whereas if upgrade-less and MT-less pubrines get raped for the 1st 2 min, then dominate for the next 2, the res you get before mr fadey would be too little to counter them.

Upgrades, on the other hand give you about 40 seconds' head start. Find it ironic really, most of the atmosphere and tense game-deciding times are within the first 6 minutes, and that's really too short to enjoy and take advantage off before World War 3 with mass fades/onos against HMG and GL totting marines.

A 15 dollar pair of headphones from wallmart gives about as good situational awareness as motion tracking.

My philosophy is: Any game you win with motion tracking means your marines are good enough that you would have won as fast or faster with arms lab upgrades. I have won many many games without motion tracking, I have won very very few games without arms lab upgrades (the occasional shotty rush thats about it).


I wouldn't call motion tracking "noob" though, it really is a strategy for experienced players who can benefit from the additional info. If you give mt to the average newbie, he just gets overconfident but it doesn't actually help him kill most of the time.

Theres only one downside to rushing MT, and thats delaying A1. Any other upgrade is fairly superflous.

Just had a couple of games with MT first, and to my surprise, it worked rather well. The only other pre-requisite other than decent marines is decent marines with patience.

They can capture 1-2 rts without any problems, as it should be. Then, they wait until MT kicks in before moving off to take out alien res nodes. With MT, they can knife with impunity and not worry about ambush, and know how many are coming. Marines can solo-build and kill RTs, which really frees up manpower. A single marine can do this while the rest attack, a boon.

Since they die less often, map control is there, and they can even camp the hive exits. Once the RTs around the hive belong to the marines, they can camp at their leisure and let the skulks come to them. There's no need to be active anymore, since the res is with them. By the times fades come, there is enough res for upgrades and shotguns, so MT's weakness is addressed.

But if the marines have no patience whatsoever, rushing in and dying, leaving rts and the map to the kharaa, then MT is useless where it counts most - the first few minutes when marines can own anything solo. Then again, if the marines can't do anything even with MT, then you probably would have lost anyway, no matter what you tried.

All people that keep saying they can use listening instead of MT are simply wrong..

Sound if you have headphones (=a must if you use microphone too):
-you cant really tell if its in front of you or behind you
-you cant tell if its above or below you
-you cannot hear anything outside "range"
-you cannot hear slow moving aliens
-you cannot hear silenced aliens
-if you do noisy sounds or people around you do, its hard to hear weak sounds

With MT you have not only blue circles but also awesome map filled with red dots which allow every single marine to know current tactical situation, see lone aliens running to eat RTs expect rushes and react on them..
I know it comes just 1-3 minute before fades do, but its still worth it, it also allows you to determine exact position of fade and prepare/encircle it..

I don't know about you but I can hear exactly where anything that makes a noise is, whether it be in front, behind, above or below.

What is the comm for then?

That's all very nice Licho but you're forgetting that when marines are listening for skulks they usually don't keep their view dead straight, they're moving it slightly to look for them too. I'd have to agree with moomin here that I can usually tell if a skulk is behind me just by listening. I totally agree with you though that headphones can only give you left/right positional audio, but even the slight movement as you're walking or aiming seems to be enough to trick the brain into thinking you can hear front/behind, and to a lesser degree, up/down. If you were sitting dead still you'd have trouble telling, but if you know the map then you can take a pretty good guess where they're coming from