After seeing the topic thrown about and discussed on the board over the last few day in verious topics, I decided to really to observe mines use in NS. When I commed I made a concerted effort to avoid electrification when possible and use mines to protect ips, structures, and vents. Additionally I made it a point to let other Commander run the show and try and get them to use the same mine techniques that have been talked about on the board. Though of course, I didn't mention this to them, that would spoil it. Given most other factors, team-size, skill, the amount of caffiene in my blood system; mines seem to be an excellent tool for most applications. We had one map were we mined quite a bit. The comm got it into his head that random mines throughout the map would really irritate the traveling aliens (true). Skulks would trod on mines in completely random spots and be very paranoid about stepping anywhere. Eventually that game came to use placing mines all over the ground of their remianing hive. The spawned into a mine field... it was a kodak moment. Sadly my camera is busted and I forgot to take a screenshot so you'll have to imagine it for yourselves.
The point being that I encourage all you aspiring Comms and Grunts to give this a try;namely when in doubt, mine it. Then tou come back and let us know how it went. What worked what didn't. I think instead of discussing tatics extensively (like we do) if we tried out these various ideas and then reported back our results we could come up with a much cleared idea and reliable idea of what Comms should do. Theories are great, but application matter more afterall.
Full Version: Mines...
Mines become more effective the more aliens you're facing. Since skulks occasionally go places together, sometimes you'll get more than one per mine, especially on RTs.
Also:
O If the map you are playing on has several well-travelled vents or crawl-spaces, mines will block them off completely, forcing aliens to take the same hallways as your marines.
O Aliens can only defuse mines in the early game with gorge spit or carapace self-detonation, which takes effort most aliens aren't willing to expend.
O See picture for mine-ladder example
Also:
O If the map you are playing on has several well-travelled vents or crawl-spaces, mines will block them off completely, forcing aliens to take the same hallways as your marines.
O Aliens can only defuse mines in the early game with gorge spit or carapace self-detonation, which takes effort most aliens aren't willing to expend.
O See picture for mine-ladder example
All the good comms use mines.
I had a hilarious game with mines...
On ns_caged, I handed out 1 pack of mines to one of my trusted regulars, he placed them around the IP, and then the skulks do a unconcerted rush to my base. About 6 of them die, and then I hand out another pack, 5 more die. Then I hand out my last pack, and about 3 died.
After that, no other skulk even bothered to come NEAR our base, it was farking hilarious.
We won, by the way (due to my superior comm skills, of course).
I had a hilarious game with mines...
On ns_caged, I handed out 1 pack of mines to one of my trusted regulars, he placed them around the IP, and then the skulks do a unconcerted rush to my base. About 6 of them die, and then I hand out another pack, 5 more die. Then I hand out my last pack, and about 3 died.
After that, no other skulk even bothered to come NEAR our base, it was farking hilarious.
We won, by the way (due to my superior comm skills, of course).
Mines are awesome if you have someone who knows how to actually place them. It's so frustrating to give someone a pack of mines, and have them run around marine spawn placing them all over the place. Then they proceed to call you a newbie commander because you didn't use electrification.
Stupid annoying don't know how to place mine marines. Hate them to hell.
Stupid annoying don't know how to place mine marines. Hate them to hell.
mines placed all over the map is usually a waste of time. using mines to guard res can also pose a problem because on pubs, marines will usually waste the mines, or die with the mines, just wasting them. however, mines are REALLY useful in holding phase gates, or vents etc. if you can get one guy who follows orders to plant them for you, mines will own most skulk rushes on a phase gate.
Don't forget everyone's favourite NS training video...
Aliens!!
"They're going to start seeing those sentry guns everywhere"
Or in this case, MINES!
Very effective at stalling the rush of some aliens, but you'll see a lot of suicide skulks rushing them in order to clear the path for gorges, onos, etc.
Great on blind turns, vents, narrow openings, and of course dropping just under empty nodes so that passing gorges explode. Mines are very handy, and can disrupt the alien game plan quite a bit.... mostly.
Aliens!!
"They're going to start seeing those sentry guns everywhere"
Or in this case, MINES!
Very effective at stalling the rush of some aliens, but you'll see a lot of suicide skulks rushing them in order to clear the path for gorges, onos, etc.
Great on blind turns, vents, narrow openings, and of course dropping just under empty nodes so that passing gorges explode. Mines are very handy, and can disrupt the alien game plan quite a bit.... mostly.
Mines are also fun on quick hive rushes, place about 2 packs scattered through out the hive area, and shoot the hive. I've even seen a very cheap tactic of building an armory outside the hive, dropping a bunch of mine packs, and having the marines run in and mine the hive area up between alien spawns.
I did another one. Here's how to make mines harder to see. Make sure you put the mines on the OTHER side of the RT, so that you can shoot any skulks trying to avoid the mines.
Also, once your base grows beyond a structure or two, a pack of mines will be obscured completely by the surrounding buildings.
Next, I'll do phasegate-mining.
Also, once your base grows beyond a structure or two, a pack of mines will be obscured completely by the surrounding buildings.
Next, I'll do phasegate-mining.
That is some nice mine placement under the RT legs. Unfourtinatly, I know of a person that uses a custom mine skin, one that has the laser beam coming out of the hole on the top of the mine. So him and any other cheep aliens will have an easier time seeing them.
I just tried out using mines in 1 game, it was amazing 
Mines are a good stragety
Random aliens started dying and I placed them in sneaky places
Hehe, it was real fun until the fades came :X
Mines are a good stragetyRandom aliens started dying and I placed them in sneaky places
Hehe, it was real fun until the fades came :X
Well... yeah.. 
But using skins that make hazards easier to see is sort of CHEATING if I may be so bold. We're talking about people who play the game as it was intended.
Mines stop being very useful after the early game, the first five minutes or so. This is the time when things matter the most. Thirty res for 12 mines will be paid back in no time, especially because mines are harder to see, and skulks will die to them more often. However, even at late game, if the only enemies you're seeing are skulks without carapace, mines will do the trick. Just put them where aliens go, or use them as area-denial weapons. And of course, mines being the sinister devices they are, once placed they will last FOREVAR until an alien either: 1) has a skill which can detonate them harmlessly, 2) runs over them and dies, 3) runs over them and get damaged and distracted for a moment.
Instead of a phasegate and turret factory, drop a phasegate, armory, and a couple mine packs. It costs around the same, takes MUCH less time to set up, and frees your attention for other things. Another plus for Armory/Mines over TF/Turrets is that it's much easier for marines to shoot targets and dodge around without turrets all over the place blocking their line of fire. Not to mention the nearby armory can dispense ammo and healthpacks for FREE, as well as let you drop additional mines right there at the phasegate, or a shotgun or two if a fade shows up. This is INFINITELY BETTER than handing out shotguns or mines at base, since soldiers get what they need the moment they need it, instead of phasing back to base and humping the armory for some extra shells too. Additionally, mines kill skulks DEAD. One big bang and they're gone. Turrets peck away at skulks, letting them manage to kill one or two marines before going down. With mines, they don't even get close. You don't even have to SHOOT at the skulks half the time unless they get smart and try to wall climb, since they die even at full health when they hit a mine.
It's kind of like handing out shotguns, except better in every way possible the majority of the time.
And now, phasegates!
But using skins that make hazards easier to see is sort of CHEATING if I may be so bold. We're talking about people who play the game as it was intended.Mines stop being very useful after the early game, the first five minutes or so. This is the time when things matter the most. Thirty res for 12 mines will be paid back in no time, especially because mines are harder to see, and skulks will die to them more often. However, even at late game, if the only enemies you're seeing are skulks without carapace, mines will do the trick. Just put them where aliens go, or use them as area-denial weapons. And of course, mines being the sinister devices they are, once placed they will last FOREVAR until an alien either: 1) has a skill which can detonate them harmlessly, 2) runs over them and dies, 3) runs over them and get damaged and distracted for a moment.
Instead of a phasegate and turret factory, drop a phasegate, armory, and a couple mine packs. It costs around the same, takes MUCH less time to set up, and frees your attention for other things. Another plus for Armory/Mines over TF/Turrets is that it's much easier for marines to shoot targets and dodge around without turrets all over the place blocking their line of fire. Not to mention the nearby armory can dispense ammo and healthpacks for FREE, as well as let you drop additional mines right there at the phasegate, or a shotgun or two if a fade shows up. This is INFINITELY BETTER than handing out shotguns or mines at base, since soldiers get what they need the moment they need it, instead of phasing back to base and humping the armory for some extra shells too. Additionally, mines kill skulks DEAD. One big bang and they're gone. Turrets peck away at skulks, letting them manage to kill one or two marines before going down. With mines, they don't even get close. You don't even have to SHOOT at the skulks half the time unless they get smart and try to wall climb, since they die even at full health when they hit a mine.
It's kind of like handing out shotguns, except better in every way possible the majority of the time.
And now, phasegates!
I tried the armory/mine/pg tactic and it worked pretty good. It saved me a lot of time by not dropping turrets :O Nice mine placement, the'll never see it
Excellent! This was what I was hoping for this mine topic. Great scren shots Swift, I should have done that when I got home but, I got easily distracted. I'd just like to remind folks that usually after you mine a rt or phase gate (correctly) you more often then not have a mine left over. Don't just throw it down too, save it. Maybe you will find a annoying vent the aliens keep sneanking through. Mines it up in the shadow. You'll probably get one kill from the next skulk and scare the rest of them from trying that vent for a while.
On to another thought, just how much damage does a mine do? We know that 1 mine can kill a regular skulk, what about a carapaced one? If not how much is health is left? What about lerks? Fades? While mines won't kill the higher life forms right off, they make weaken them quite a bit. Especially with fades, where every point of health taken off is a BIG help, mines might be useful for trapping and killing aliens.
On to another thought, just how much damage does a mine do? We know that 1 mine can kill a regular skulk, what about a carapaced one? If not how much is health is left? What about lerks? Fades? While mines won't kill the higher life forms right off, they make weaken them quite a bit. Especially with fades, where every point of health taken off is a BIG help, mines might be useful for trapping and killing aliens.
A carapaced Skulk has the equivalent of 130 health, while one without only has about 90. Thus, a carapaced Skulk should *barely* be able to survive the blast of one mine, which does about 125 damage.
Haha, I think I was in that game. It was damn annoying as aliens. Running along and BOOM. Pretty effective. 
Be wary of assuming mines will save your team tho, because suicide skulks and (IIRC) bilebomb will be handy for clearing the way.
Best rule of thumb is to always keep an eye on any mineshaped activity - make sure there's still mines left or be sure to retaliate if the aliens are doing a concerted assault.
Mines are very good whistleblowers, which in turn discourages alien aggression if every mine they detonate triggers a rapid response shotty team (of course they can turn this to their favour by baiting your team into appearing, but as stated above the best option is to keep an eye on whats happening).
Best rule of thumb is to always keep an eye on any mineshaped activity - make sure there's still mines left or be sure to retaliate if the aliens are doing a concerted assault.
Mines are very good whistleblowers, which in turn discourages alien aggression if every mine they detonate triggers a rapid response shotty team (of course they can turn this to their favour by baiting your team into appearing, but as stated above the best option is to keep an eye on whats happening).
I know altering the skins and models to get a gain is in essance cheating. I've never been a fan of modding mods. I like playing with mines, any game that I've been in with mines used more than just once or twice usually results in a win for the marines, conincidence?
Right now, people with a knowledge of mines can be a huge asset defending positions. If even one guy on your team really knows how to use mines, as long as the com drops him a pack every time they put up an RT, and tells him to patrol for skulks, your RTs are totally safe against RT-hungry rambo skulks. At four mines for 10 res, it's the fastest, smallest, cheapest way to defend small areas the marines have. As long as your guy with the mines gets where he's going, it's all good.
Carapace can be useful to suicide for mines, since a cara skulk can take one for the team by removing two mines quickly for any buddies following behind him. One or two cara skulks usually means that the mines did what they could, and you're going to need to get a marine over there to take care of business fast, and maybe put down another pack of mines. Again, mines get less and less useful the longer you wait to use them in a game, since the aliens get faster and better ways to shoot down mines as they expand. In the rare case where you get a game that doesn't start with the aliens dropping DC, mines will keep killing skulks until they DO get DCs, usually for the second hive. If you've been taking advantage of the fact that the skulks have no defense against well placed mines the whole time though, it'll be a miracle if they DO get the second hive going.
Another fun thing about mines is that with alien teams that have a low level of communication, you can have a skulk that KNOWS there are mines on the RT he's biting, and his teammate skulk won't know any better, come by to help bite the RT, trigger a mine, and kill the both of them. It's a classic burn on the aliens, and sometimes it'll break the alien team down even more if you have one of those totally anal guys on aliens who spazzes out when he dies or his teammates are fools. He'll start shouting over the mic and do the trashtalking for you. :D Since he's on the alien team, you won't even have to listen while he bashes his teammates playing skills.
Carapace can be useful to suicide for mines, since a cara skulk can take one for the team by removing two mines quickly for any buddies following behind him. One or two cara skulks usually means that the mines did what they could, and you're going to need to get a marine over there to take care of business fast, and maybe put down another pack of mines. Again, mines get less and less useful the longer you wait to use them in a game, since the aliens get faster and better ways to shoot down mines as they expand. In the rare case where you get a game that doesn't start with the aliens dropping DC, mines will keep killing skulks until they DO get DCs, usually for the second hive. If you've been taking advantage of the fact that the skulks have no defense against well placed mines the whole time though, it'll be a miracle if they DO get the second hive going.
Another fun thing about mines is that with alien teams that have a low level of communication, you can have a skulk that KNOWS there are mines on the RT he's biting, and his teammate skulk won't know any better, come by to help bite the RT, trigger a mine, and kill the both of them. It's a classic burn on the aliens, and sometimes it'll break the alien team down even more if you have one of those totally anal guys on aliens who spazzes out when he dies or his teammates are fools. He'll start shouting over the mic and do the trashtalking for you. :D Since he's on the alien team, you won't even have to listen while he bashes his teammates playing skills.
| QUOTE (maverick651 @ Apr 13 2004, 02:33 PM) |
| I know altering the skins and models to get a gain is in essance cheating. I've never been a fan of modding mods. I like playing with mines, any game that I've been in with mines used more than just once or twice usually results in a win for the marines, conincidence? |
If marines used mines all the time, then aliens would eventually learn to deal with it, and it wouldn't be as effective (as in, if it became as popular as defense first).
Edit: Disregard this post. See reasons below.
Yes it`s so damn hilarious to be comming with team-that-knows-the-mighty-bulk-on-ground. Paranoid skulks blasting off and hearing bangs from vents. That armory/pg thibg also rocked alien just saw the lone pg and armory....
It`s funny that the mine has never been discussed until now and thanks to lost! for this great thread this is the reason we read forums.
It`s funny that the mine has never been discussed until now and thanks to lost! for this great thread this is the reason we read forums.
| QUOTE (i'm lost @ Apr 13 2004, 10:26 PM) | ||
If marines used mines all the time, then aliens would eventually learn to deal with it, and it wouldn't be as effective (as in, if it became as popular as defense first). |
You do have a point here. Though any tactic or strategy will eventually have the aliens come up with a counter to it. I don't really think that this strategy is a bad one at all. It directly impacts on the whole rez protection/electrification/early skulk rush problem for marines, and thats have the game right there. I'm quite sure the aliens will wise up someday and learn how to counter it effectively but, it will have to be a 1 hive counter to be really effective, mines really matter early on remember. So it'll probably be suiciding skulks, gorges stomping on mines to clear them or the carapace skulk trying to take them out one at a time. After fades appear, they get less useful but can still be quite useful. I think at the very least this tactic/strategy can help the Comm lead the aliens down a certain way of playing. And if a Comm can force the aliens to act a certain way, he can craft his plans to beat them more easily. Though it is important to realize that the aliens will find a counter some day, they will find counters to nearly any strategy. I don't think this one has been fully play-tested or used enough yet for the aliens to come up with the counter yet, however. Though I do think they will counter with the way above... maybe even roves of skulks using parasite to clear mines (I think it will set them off eventually). I am starting to think and talk in circular arguments here, so I'll stop before I keep repeating myself.
Parasites no longer damage mines. Otherwise, visible mines would be useless, even at one hive, unless there were constantly marines in the area.
What makes these games interesting is adaptation. It goes along with the whole Natural Selection theme. Those people that don't adapt and change their playstyle to whats going on around them, will die...a lot. Even the best alien players take hits to mines, his fault or a teammates fault for triggering it.
| QUOTE (i'm lost @ Apr 13 2004, 10:26 PM) |
| If marines used mines all the time, then aliens would eventually learn to deal with it, and it wouldn't be as effective (as in, if it became as popular as defense first). |
What are u talking about? Mines are the primary defense for bases in clan games. Everytime a pg is dropped, mines are dropped to cover it. The probability of seeing mines in a clan game is probably higher than seeing DCs first, which should tell you a lot.
I use differnt models, i even make them. I dont care about the lasers for sentries, but if you have them for guns and mines, that is really, really cheap.
PGs going up at/near/INSIDE a hotzone should always always always ALWAYS have a marine on the other side with a pack of mines out waiting for the instant the PG goes up. As com I so desperatly want this to happen that i usually jump out of the chair, pick up my mines and do it myself. (especially in pubs)
Mines are excellent on pubs because you can at least rely on them trying to kill the enemy.
Mines aren't known for sitting in spawn spamming chat for shirtgons.
Mines aren't known for sitting in spawn spamming chat for shirtgons.
I am wondering how many more people have been having success or luck with mines recently. I haven't managed to get in a game of NS in a few days so I haven't been able to see, or try out first hand, the finer points of mining. All this talk of mines actually makes me wish their was an Enginner or Grenedier class (if there were such thing as classes for marines) in NS. Maybe in lieu of getting HA or a JP you could get a Engineer pack... Welder, mines, explosive kit. I've always loved the combat engineer role in most games. I recall in the original Tribes, I would spend huge amounts of time building defenses . All the while ignoring the enemy almost compeltely. There is hardly anything as picturesque as a well placed mine field and few hidden turrets... But, I digress. Any more cunning placements people have found? I've noticed that mines do not like to be placed directly on structures (i.e. RTs) anyone else noticed that or am I just screwing up how I place them. I don't mean on the floor near them, I mean directly on them. And has anyone managed to lure higher life forms successfuly into your minefields and killed them easily? If so where? What happened? What worked, what didn't?
If your fighting the good-Very Good fades you only have 2 chances at taking him out:
1.) block him inside with your marines somehow... every second counts
2.) Have a marine drop a good old fashioned "onos trap" IE: tons of mines in a small spot and pray the the majikal god of NS that the fade nails it on the way in (followed by a quick burst of weapons fire to finish him) or on the way out (weak from weapons fire).
Fades just have to much control over the engagements... they can chose to end the fighting whenever they want (IE: Blink away).
1.) block him inside with your marines somehow... every second counts
2.) Have a marine drop a good old fashioned "onos trap" IE: tons of mines in a small spot and pray the the majikal god of NS that the fade nails it on the way in (followed by a quick burst of weapons fire to finish him) or on the way out (weak from weapons fire).
Fades just have to much control over the engagements... they can chose to end the fighting whenever they want (IE: Blink away).
Thats the problem with 3.0 mines - no effect on higher lifeforms. With 2.xx you could use a big stack'o'mines to kill oni and fades. With their new HP and mine non-stackability, they're a skulk deterrent only, albeit a very, very effective one.
Yeh, more talk on my fav. weapon =D.
Mines get affected by weapon upgrades too, so that's a bonus. That they give RFK also defrays their cost.
Mines at a siege outpost are very good at killing fades. A standard fade usually retreats at about 50% health. 2 packs of mines in the area, and him detonating 3 of them will kill him. The explosions also obscure vision, so he can't swipe / run effectively. Throw in a shotgun and hive-killing siege ends up being a anything killing siege. A HMG or 2 will clear out any onos as well.
Mines get affected by weapon upgrades too, so that's a bonus. That they give RFK also defrays their cost.
Mines at a siege outpost are very good at killing fades. A standard fade usually retreats at about 50% health. 2 packs of mines in the area, and him detonating 3 of them will kill him. The explosions also obscure vision, so he can't swipe / run effectively. Throw in a shotgun and hive-killing siege ends up being a anything killing siege. A HMG or 2 will clear out any onos as well.
That lat post made me think....
Other then suicides (ie typing kill, falling into pits, getting crushed) is there any way to kill an alien and NOT get rez for it? This post left the faint implication that killing aliens with good old fashioned turrets would earn you RFK. I'm sure he didn't mean that intentionally but, is there anyway that can happen that isn't an accidental death?
Second, just what is the upgrade amount for mines? Will a level 3 mine still kill off a carapce level 3 skulk? How much damage is it doing at level 1, level 2 and level 3?
Other then suicides (ie typing kill, falling into pits, getting crushed) is there any way to kill an alien and NOT get rez for it? This post left the faint implication that killing aliens with good old fashioned turrets would earn you RFK. I'm sure he didn't mean that intentionally but, is there anyway that can happen that isn't an accidental death?
Second, just what is the upgrade amount for mines? Will a level 3 mine still kill off a carapce level 3 skulk? How much damage is it doing at level 1, level 2 and level 3?
The reason everyone brings up RFK is that before 3.0, you didn't get RFK from mines. Turrets have always given RFK (as long as RFK has been around at least).
Mines are great, but don't rely on them too much. The mines in the hive are usually quickly taken out with spit/bilebomb, unless you have the whole alien team in their spawn queue. For PGs and siege stations they are most definitely teh win, over and over. Plus you can now drop shotties at the PG. For main base they're hit and miss. You have to drop 2 packs at base most of the time for them to really be effective. Skilled skulks are starting to get used to mines at base and can avoid them quite effectively while taking out your buildings. You need a base guard to complement the mines and try to make the skulks run into them. Putting a mine or two by the CC is good because you can logout to fight the skulks, but it's still risky getting out of the CC with level 0 armor.
Don't be afraid as commander to drop mines yourself like Trev said. It only takes a second, and your team doesn't have to spend any time worrying about defense.
Mines are great, but don't rely on them too much. The mines in the hive are usually quickly taken out with spit/bilebomb, unless you have the whole alien team in their spawn queue. For PGs and siege stations they are most definitely teh win, over and over. Plus you can now drop shotties at the PG. For main base they're hit and miss. You have to drop 2 packs at base most of the time for them to really be effective. Skilled skulks are starting to get used to mines at base and can avoid them quite effectively while taking out your buildings. You need a base guard to complement the mines and try to make the skulks run into them. Putting a mine or two by the CC is good because you can logout to fight the skulks, but it's still risky getting out of the CC with level 0 armor.
Don't be afraid as commander to drop mines yourself like Trev said. It only takes a second, and your team doesn't have to spend any time worrying about defense.
Carapaced skulk ends up in the red health after a mine
I tried the hiding the mines around the TF and Phase Gate yesterday, worked like a charm, haha.
| QUOTE (maverick651 @ Apr 19 2004, 03:29 PM) |
| hiding the mines |
the best thing u can do with mines.
yesterday i downloaded a new mine model that has a laser. i would like to bring up a few points about it.
1. im best as skulk, out of all the ns characters, so i am highly proficient at avoiding mines.
2. the laser beam can only be seen within 5 meters. this seems like a lot but when your a celerity skulk, the world is different.
3. laser mines help me way more as a TSA grunt because I know how others have set up their minefields = i now always get the mines from the comm because i can set them up right.
4. pre 3.0 mines had a laser (i've heard from a friend of mine)
btw, i have almost completely modded the character sprites and models in ns. not because i want to cheat, but because the spec ops 1 lmg looks soo cool i now get lvl 3 weps before i get a shotty in CO
the lesson: don't get new models to cheat, thats lame. get new models to make ns different and more fun, thats cool
[edit] who needs spelling and grammer? [/edit]
1. im best as skulk, out of all the ns characters, so i am highly proficient at avoiding mines.
2. the laser beam can only be seen within 5 meters. this seems like a lot but when your a celerity skulk, the world is different.
3. laser mines help me way more as a TSA grunt because I know how others have set up their minefields = i now always get the mines from the comm because i can set them up right.
4. pre 3.0 mines had a laser (i've heard from a friend of mine)
btw, i have almost completely modded the character sprites and models in ns. not because i want to cheat, but because the spec ops 1 lmg looks soo cool i now get lvl 3 weps before i get a shotty in CO
the lesson: don't get new models to cheat, thats lame. get new models to make ns different and more fun, thats cool
[edit] who needs spelling and grammer?
[/edit]
| QUOTE (hidden_sniper @ Apr 22 2004, 07:20 PM) |
| the lesson: don't get new models to cheat, thats lame. get new models to make ns different and more fun, thats cool [edit] who needs spelling and grammer? [/edit] |
We'll have Flayra in for tomorrow's Public Service Announcement.
In addition, I also hid the mines and it works great.
| QUOTE (_Lost_ @ Apr 19 2004, 12:10 PM) |
| That lat post made me think.... Other then suicides (ie typing kill, falling into pits, getting crushed) is there any way to kill an alien and NOT get rez for it? This post left the faint implication that killing aliens with good old fashioned turrets would earn you RFK. I'm sure he didn't mean that intentionally but, is there anyway that can happen that isn't an accidental death? Second, just what is the upgrade amount for mines? Will a level 3 mine still kill off a carapce level 3 skulk? How much damage is it doing at level 1, level 2 and level 3? |
I might be wrong on the base damage, but its 125 base mine damage afaik (or 150, I forget). Weapon upgrades do 10% extra damage per level. A level 0 mine if its really 125 would leave a L3 Carapace Skulk at an amazing 5HP, but then again I suspect I'm wrong on the damage.
Edit - oops meant to edit the previous post, whatever :
If aliens are at Hive 1, yes mines rule. At Hive 2, they almost instantly become unworthy of deploying in most cases.
If aliens are at Hive 1, yes mines rule. At Hive 2, they almost instantly become unworthy of deploying in most cases.
| QUOTE |
| 4. pre 3.0 mines had a laser (i've heard from a friend of mine) |
Mines in 1.0x had a lazer IF they were placed on a wall. If they were placed on the ground, they were proximity mines, which is why there was no lazer. If they were placed on a wall, they were trip mines, which is why there was a lazer. Also, the only way that they were meant to be killed was by running into them, or with acid rocket or bile bomb (both on the fade at that time). Spit could take them out, if you knew where to aim (which was slightly above them).
I find mines really good for tight locations, random places, and inside structures.
Tight locations like red room on ns_nothing are hard to fight in, due to the aliens being able to come time and time again, and just bite randomly to kill your structures, mine it up, bewm
Some other tight locations would include behind buildings, especially in corners, or where theres a blind spot on your defences, skulk dodges 2 turrets, then bewm
Some random places would be around corners, inside the resource nozzle model, or some other interesting locations, like just inside a door, a alien opens door and charges thru the narrow crack, then bewm
Some other things to use with mines are mine ladders, effective defence against early game aliens, weakening larger aliens, etc.
What I find usefull is to drop a armory and a phase gate in a hot location (hostile, not... err.. ya). You drop some mines, a welder or two if needed, and some shotties or other stuff if needed. It provides an instant power boost to the marines, cause they have ammo, meds, and a general structure to hump...
Tight locations like red room on ns_nothing are hard to fight in, due to the aliens being able to come time and time again, and just bite randomly to kill your structures, mine it up, bewm
Some other tight locations would include behind buildings, especially in corners, or where theres a blind spot on your defences, skulk dodges 2 turrets, then bewm
Some random places would be around corners, inside the resource nozzle model, or some other interesting locations, like just inside a door, a alien opens door and charges thru the narrow crack, then bewm
Some other things to use with mines are mine ladders, effective defence against early game aliens, weakening larger aliens, etc.
What I find usefull is to drop a armory and a phase gate in a hot location (hostile, not... err.. ya). You drop some mines, a welder or two if needed, and some shotties or other stuff if needed. It provides an instant power boost to the marines, cause they have ammo, meds, and a general structure to hump...
This is how you use mines like a pro. Demonstration to follow, warning, image dense.
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I was inspired by a recent game where we relocated to Station Access Alpha.
I'm not in a clan or anything, but I think if you had a bunch of friends and you all knew what the plan was, you could pull this off.
I just like being crafty. Sneaky is my game.
I might as well explain a few things about how to prioritize vents that the marine team can use:
First of all, when you're considering vents, try to think about their possible worth. Everything from skulk traffic, to whether or not you can build in there, to whether it allows you to actually GET ANYWHERE or DO ANYTHING. Vents that just trap you and force you to commit suicide and respawn to escape are completely worthless except to allow skulks someplace to hide. The sooner you weld any vents like that shut, the better.
Second, consider how likely it is that you'll be able to pull off a mine ladder plan. You have to have very close support teamwork for the guy laying the mines, who has to lay them down with spot-on perfect precision, and then you have to all duck-jump your way quickly into the vent and move to your objectives. This can be a hard feat of teamwork to organize, so if it requires your guys going up a ladder one at a time, in single file, with only two people covering, it might just not work, and you should forget the plan.
Third, the idea isn't to just get into a vent and camp aliens from somewhere they won't be looking for you. Ideally, if the commander is dropping TEN RESOURCES worth of equipment to you, you will be using it to get somewhere and do something useful. After all, there's no reason for the commander to drop you those mines when there's a hallway that would be perfectly free for the whole team to use about twenty meters down the hall. The idea is to get somewhere almost as fast as you would using the main roads, and do it very quietly, and be hard to intercept. If the commander thinks that he's going to spend more than five medpacks and/or ammopacks if your squad uses the hallways where skulks are looking for you, it's time to consider something crazy like mine ladders into vents. Surprise and the unexpected works pretty well, as long as everyone on your team understands how it's done.
So that's the why for this image guide. Yeah. Anyway I hope it helps some of you beginning clans or teams or whatever, and if you're on a pub with some good regulars, you can always try it out. Do it. Go.
I'm not in a clan or anything, but I think if you had a bunch of friends and you all knew what the plan was, you could pull this off.
I just like being crafty. Sneaky is my game.
I might as well explain a few things about how to prioritize vents that the marine team can use:
First of all, when you're considering vents, try to think about their possible worth. Everything from skulk traffic, to whether or not you can build in there, to whether it allows you to actually GET ANYWHERE or DO ANYTHING. Vents that just trap you and force you to commit suicide and respawn to escape are completely worthless except to allow skulks someplace to hide. The sooner you weld any vents like that shut, the better.
Second, consider how likely it is that you'll be able to pull off a mine ladder plan. You have to have very close support teamwork for the guy laying the mines, who has to lay them down with spot-on perfect precision, and then you have to all duck-jump your way quickly into the vent and move to your objectives. This can be a hard feat of teamwork to organize, so if it requires your guys going up a ladder one at a time, in single file, with only two people covering, it might just not work, and you should forget the plan.
Third, the idea isn't to just get into a vent and camp aliens from somewhere they won't be looking for you. Ideally, if the commander is dropping TEN RESOURCES worth of equipment to you, you will be using it to get somewhere and do something useful. After all, there's no reason for the commander to drop you those mines when there's a hallway that would be perfectly free for the whole team to use about twenty meters down the hall. The idea is to get somewhere almost as fast as you would using the main roads, and do it very quietly, and be hard to intercept. If the commander thinks that he's going to spend more than five medpacks and/or ammopacks if your squad uses the hallways where skulks are looking for you, it's time to consider something crazy like mine ladders into vents. Surprise and the unexpected works pretty well, as long as everyone on your team understands how it's done.
So that's the why for this image guide. Yeah. Anyway I hope it helps some of you beginning clans or teams or whatever, and if you're on a pub with some good regulars, you can always try it out. Do it. Go.
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