I don't know about the rest of you but I for one am getting real frustrated with the WIPs we see of high quality models which suddenly disappear.

I ask myself why this happens.

Evidently, sometimes its a bad wip and people don't want it made. However, there's a growing number of excellent WIPs which have just died despite being very very good.

I also see in a lot of threads that people are asking for help doing this or that. Brig wanting people to test his models. Myself needing a skinner. Other people needing meshers, or animators.

What do they have in common? NOTHING GOT DONE. Brigs models are damn fine, but so few of the forum actively tested them for him. Cookie churns out fine models but look at the hell he goes through trying to get an animator. I'm not the best hackjobber on the planet, but I turn out nice stuff and I get totally derailed when I need something moved in milkshape because I can't do it. So we see the NS moddelling community getting stalled because people aren't getting the aid they require.


Now, I could animate Cookie's stuff, but I'm busy trying to learn milkshape so I can fix my own stuff. Cookie has done and probably still could fix my stuff, but he's busy learning how to fix his own stuff. Ditto other forum peeps - even Daphisto has a lot of quality models that get stalled because members of the community are forced to go outside their area of expertise.



What I propose is that people try and actively help other modellers, skinners, meshers, and the like. If you see a help request, and its something dirt easy in milkshape, then why not pull a finger out and do it? I don't even know how to use milkshape but I still knocked out a simple Dropship SMD so that people could use it as a prefab! That was all of 3 minutes of my time, didn't sidetrack my work, and if anything gave other people could actually USE.

I can't animate models if I'm spending my spare time desperately trying to learn milkshape's modelling side. I don't expect other customisers to get any work done if they're forced to learn to use a program they don't really want or need to. I'm sick of threads being filled with "I could do this in two minutes, natch" and noone actually DOING it. Its frustrating to me as a customiser and a gamer, because it means things are NOT getting done.


In the past I got a bit too cynical about this, and started directly stating that I wouldn't help someone because I got no help in return. Well it stops here. I pledge myself to supporting the NS community by pulling my finger out when someone needs help. If I ever find myself thinking "thats easy, I could do it in a hot minute" then I guarantee you I'll do it. No more bartering for help.

I hope this influences other people in the community to do the same. We're all busy people, we all have real lives, other mods, school, work, etc so lets lighten each others burden by helping where we can, not calling people lazy and not making pointless posts about how fast or how much better you can do something. Don't say it... do it!!


Ta for reading!

wow man, i second that. unfortunately i wont be able to help out very long because i'm shipping off to the army next week. i'm going to mesh funbag's lmg gun today (if i can get him to send me the file), and if anyone else needs meshing done, i won't guarantee that i'll do it, but you can get in touch with me and ask.

The problem is that there isn't many Animators/Skinners. And most of the WIP's are forgotten waiting for one of those.

Couldn't agree with you more, now there's a good point to show out to the NS community.
Personally I dropped the Carrigage LMG I was working on because I sucked at animating and I really didn't like how the skin turned out to be...
Right now I'm doing a 3rd alternative to Chrono's M9Hawk, I really need to brush up on skinning.
Right now I can't skin very well, and I only know basic animation (it's easy, just needs loooooooooooooooooooooooots of patience...), but I do know modelling (like 90% of other forum users... ).

EDIT: Ah I can skin mesh, but not very well

One shouldn't have to be an expert at everything to get something done, it's probably a good idea to "pool resources" and I do hope you can gain some momentum with that idea.

very well said necrosis.

Neo I think you have the right idea, but needs to pulled even further, or even thinking a little bit smaller.

Maybe instead of asking animators, meshers etc to step up, you can take the dedicated people that know what to do, to take the dedicated people that want to learn, and help the community thrive on getting things done, complete, and alot more progress than chit chat.

i would glady provide hosting if you have any ideas. (classes, etc)

tbh we as a group in this forum compared to other modeling forums are very young, Now i hate comparing us to Cs forums etc but it just takes time for the right influx of skills to be introduced into the forum. And for people to stop leaving and suddenly give up. But i agree with you Neo well said there tbh. I think i will give up on the modeling side and just take up animating kinda looks easyer! i hope anyway

well thats y i allways do everything on my own

Along with my other post,
I also think an assembly line type system will bring alot of models to life.

hmm that's why I made a topic for all that "forgotten WIPs" some months ago...

another suggestion worked pretty well for me

do the model , then the skin mesh, then the texture, then animate it , make sprites , and sounds

in the end you dont really need any foreign help

not everyones perfect dillinja...

i know how to model, skin and skinmesh, but i just cant animate, i might learn soon, after i get better at player modelling and skinning

too bad i cant mesh, i suck at ms paint ( ) and i cant animate.


I just wanted to point out promethius. he started up a thread saying that he was open for requests on animating. that kind of stuff REALLY helps. REALLY does.

not all people have the programs to do the whole thing by themself. another problem is that some people might be saying "help! I need someone to do UVs!!!!1!!11q" but they've only attached a format that some people can't use

we should come up with a list of dedicated assembly line type people



Animators Meshers Skinners Sounds Hosting

very well stated indeed. I whole heartedly agree. as well, I can animate! but can't skin so if you are a skinner that needs something animated come to me and you can skin something of mine and i can animate others. Secondly more people need to learn how to skinmesh, be it a modeller or not. If you want to help the community out you should learn this task because it is fairly easy, though tedious.

Well said.

I can do everything... but i suck at everything

You know how pandas|JoJoshua trains nubs how to play ns every week?

Well, we should setup classes, using a voice thing (teamspeak, ventrilo or something)

i can animate and model. im nowhere near best but i can manage. if anyone needs help im always open. also i am willing to help teach milkshape animation to anyone.

I'm thinking about setting up modelling and SKINMESHING tutorials.

i tried skinmeshing out but i just dont have the time... work + school =

i "could" skin, i just need time to learn how to do a good job of it, but now with a girlfriend, and a new job, plus school, i don't have much free time

sorry

give up free sex, you crazy person!??!!rottencookie but seriously, i can't ditch my gf, she means too much, plus i need to work hard at school cuz i'm failing .....and i need that job cuz i'm going to japan for the summer for my buddies wedding, so i need spending money ^_^

I got a gf, but just recently, i work all the time, and i have school too and i have time

you just need to limit the poon.

It really cheers me to see people nodding and agreeing, and if you want to stick your neck right out then go to the skills thread and sign yourself up.

Its not a death sentence, its just handy and means the work can go to those who find it easiest, instead of being a ball and chain.

I hope the thread catches on, and that after a short period of reassigning tasks we can begin to see fairly consistent model turnout, especially considering the closeness of our community!

Another idea of mine is simple.

So we do the assembly line.
take one model and go throuhg one rotation of the line (complete model)

maybe make a 1st and 2nd string of the assembly line to make each line a break on models etc.?

COmments?

perhaps at one point, the model can be split between seperate lines, having more then one take on it ... ie skin, or anims, or sounds, or sprites.

i say we take everyone from the othe thread the skills sign up and break them up into teams and have them each work on models

im an animator and nobody ever says anything to me


Although I am usualy rather busy, but i try

This idea is off to a good start already. How do you propose we make the "assembly lines"


Im going to start lookign into the smeshing, since it seems like somethign peopel dont like to do cause its boring.. i like boring things ^^

for assembly lines i say we break off into teams and some groups will get more then one modeler whats the problem with that?

but how does everyone get grouped ... names in a hat ^^?

I have loads of models on my hands that I'd like skinned. I'd like to see one of my models put into natural-selection. Too bad there's a lack of skinners and animators.

I wouldn't want anything more than to see one of my models downloaded by anyone.

Anyways, I agree with ya. I might eventually try as hard as I can in the skinning department, but I am not that good at art in general.

see.. the situation would work out well for you... there would be plenty of people to submit it to, for skin type work..

(if you have the thing smeshed, pm me, and ill try and see if i cant skin it for ya... or you could look in the ole skill thread)

Please, Mods, PLEASE sticky this.

oh btw what i notice is that i got 3 models latly and they where modeled so evil style that it was nearly impossible to make a good mesh for it so allways remember to model UVMAP friendly

Once the thread is almost complete i nthe post your skills thread, Ill put together 2 strings of teams.

have a model go through one team, then another requested model for the other team.

I will provide hosting for each member of each team if participated, and an NSarmslab.com email if desired.

lets get the ball rolling.

i think one of the main problems is that the original creators dont stick with it. on my models i dont start another untill mine get finished. each model should have at least one person to stick behind it and push the meshers/skinners/animators to come and work on it. i have done that with almost every one of my models and the ones i havent, namely the starcraft alien buildings, are still not finished.

Cracking whips won't get it done tho, it'll just annoy the people working on it, perhaps to the point of them quitting.




As for little quirks like UVmap friendly models, surely thats a situation where the parties concerned need to get together and discuss what works, or perhaps suggest good tutorials or examples. Additionally, I think some of the problem lies with the fact that not everyone is a jack of all trades - some sweet models are bound to have evil UV purely because modeller has no idea how it works.

Communication is key.