The simple answer: shoot the aliens
The costly, ineffective answer: electrify
The nub turtling answer: built a turret farm (actually works for double res...)
I need a real answer! Lone skulks give you enough time to get a marine there to save it, but then he has to spend 10 years welding it (ARG!).
However, the big trouble is those roving groups of 2-3+ skulks, often from the a clan, guys with voice comm and teamwork, who chew through rts INCREDIBLY fast. They'll work their way across the map and you'll wonder what happened to your res income. You can't rebuild as fast as they destroy. And it ain't cost effective anyway. Electricity solves that problem. For about a minute.
Then come the fades. Any rts that survive the skulks thanks to their electrification (is that a word? heh) get pwned by the mighty fades, who are probably the biggest **** for comms ever.
So... how do you clanners comms do it? Help us comm challenged children! (like the aliteration? I know you do!!)
Full Version: How Do You Save Rts?
The counter to teamwork is teamwork, natch.
Simply use marines in a more effective way to cover ground and preferrably indirectly RTs. Even if you don't hold vital chokepoints, pressure the aliens and they just can't afford to go chomping all your RTs (and if they do, you win anyway because now they're short RTs/Hives/Chambers).
Theres tons of talk about how to tech, electrify, lockdown and whatnot, but the best defense for your RTs and whatnot is often overlooked - simply using the terrain and your marines to gain an advantage. Force a battle where you like it, and everything will start going your way - for example setup camp in an open area outside Alien spawn (Keyhole to Maint Hive, Eastern Entrance to AE35, Cold Turn to Hamasaki, C3 to Cargo, RP2 to tunnel, Sloop to CC/Maint and the list goes endlessly on).
Really, ressource towers are just a side effect of your success on the field - if you're getting owned out there, you'll be unable to hold many RTs. If you're kicking ****, you'll have every damn RT without any effort. Electrification is not for defending nodes, its more of a speciality weapon to deny lucrative alien nodes, cover PGs, protect TFacs or prevent comebacks.
Theres tons of talk about how to tech, electrify, lockdown and whatnot, but the best defense for your RTs and whatnot is often overlooked - simply using the terrain and your marines to gain an advantage. Force a battle where you like it, and everything will start going your way - for example setup camp in an open area outside Alien spawn (Keyhole to Maint Hive, Eastern Entrance to AE35, Cold Turn to Hamasaki, C3 to Cargo, RP2 to tunnel, Sloop to CC/Maint and the list goes endlessly on).
Really, ressource towers are just a side effect of your success on the field - if you're getting owned out there, you'll be unable to hold many RTs. If you're kicking ****, you'll have every damn RT without any effort. Electrification is not for defending nodes, its more of a speciality weapon to deny lucrative alien nodes, cover PGs, protect TFacs or prevent comebacks.
usualy whe im in command I send some marines to an res node put a rt on it an deploy a set os mines (4 but like 5 
) that will put skulks away . as for gorges the marine must get there fast and cover it
Ps- Turet farm on double res nahhhh waste of res wich doesnt payoff use pg with 1 marine defending othe GET TO THE HIVE
) that will put skulks away . as for gorges the marine must get there fast and cover it Ps- Turet farm on double res nahhhh waste of res wich doesnt payoff use pg with 1 marine defending othe GET TO THE HIVE
How about an eye for an eye? It will be more useful to send your marines to kill their RT when they are killing yours. Most of the time it is much harder for the aliens to replace that lost RT than it is for the marines to replace theirs. The aliens have to morph into gorge and then build the RT again.
After the initial RT building frenzy in a pub game , the aliens will probably be saving for higher life forms or hive and no one will want to gorge and replace those RTs.
After the initial RT building frenzy in a pub game , the aliens will probably be saving for higher life forms or hive and no one will want to gorge and replace those RTs.
Pressure the hive(s). If theyre busy trying to keep you out of the hive, they're not in your backfield chewing on res towers (usually. there's always one guy who ignores the hive-under-attack and goes after res nodes...).
If they have skulks chewing an RT, then get yourself a res ninja, and a marine to run off and destroy their RTs. If they stay to get rid of your RTs, they lose theirs. Also, a good way is to see where they are, and ask marines to cut them off at the NEXT RT in the order. That's what I see happen a lot, and tends to work.
What i normaly do first at the start of the game i send about 2 or 3 marines rushin off the aliens hive/s soon as i see fades attacking rts to distract them away.
or send my marines on patrols which i learnt myself as commander basicly they run back n forth to each rt to keep skulks away and if they come across a fade i send 2 marines with shottys around the fade if possible to block him in.
or send my marines on patrols which i learnt myself as commander basicly they run back n forth to each rt to keep skulks away and if they come across a fade i send 2 marines with shottys around the fade if possible to block him in.
I do not bother saving.
Well, not always. its not s standard thing ppl. its adding up costs and gains.
If they waste a RT and we can take a choke point then by all means let them have it. We will choke them and get it back later.
Also remember if they waste it they still gotta build there own. Do NOT let them. Rine RTs work better then kharaa. If we run on 1 and they we will have the better run. Build RTs if you can but wasting res on defense is useless. Simply rebuild and use the time there attacking to take more valued points of the map.
Enought have lost there hives cause they were busy with RTs on the other side of the map.
Well, not always. its not s standard thing ppl. its adding up costs and gains.
If they waste a RT and we can take a choke point then by all means let them have it. We will choke them and get it back later.
Also remember if they waste it they still gotta build there own. Do NOT let them. Rine RTs work better then kharaa. If we run on 1 and they we will have the better run. Build RTs if you can but wasting res on defense is useless. Simply rebuild and use the time there attacking to take more valued points of the map.
Enought have lost there hives cause they were busy with RTs on the other side of the map.
Never electricify, 4 RTs = elect RT, better to just replace one.
Mining the RT can sometimes be worth it if done correctly
Being on the offensive is good to scare the skulks away from attacking your base.
Have 1 marine patrol the RTs, even if he dies he may of killed several skulks if their chewing on a RT.
If there a TRUE pain....
Research grenades
have the patroller pull grenade
throw at RT
Get 3-4 kills from grenade
If its a fade though.....hehehe.......good luck and remember shotties and blocking a fade is key.
Mining the RT can sometimes be worth it if done correctly
Being on the offensive is good to scare the skulks away from attacking your base.
Have 1 marine patrol the RTs, even if he dies he may of killed several skulks if their chewing on a RT.
If there a TRUE pain....
Research grenades
have the patroller pull grenade
throw at RT
Get 3-4 kills from grenade
If its a fade though.....hehehe.......good luck and remember shotties and blocking a fade is key.
| QUOTE (Thardin @ Apr 9 2004, 03:03 PM) |
| Never electricify, 4 RTs = elect RT, better to just replace one. Mining the RT can sometimes be worth it if done correctly Being on the offensive is good to scare the skulks away from attacking your base. Have 1 marine patrol the RTs, even if he dies he may of killed several skulks if their chewing on a RT. If there a TRUE pain.... Research grenades have the patroller pull grenade throw at RT Get 3-4 kills from grenade If its a fade though.....hehehe.......good luck and remember shotties and blocking a fade is key. |
I think you mean:
1 Electrified RT(15 +30 = 45) = 3 Normal RTs (15 + 15 +15 = 45)
Though I would question the idea of just having one marine patrolling the rts. Quite often on public servers, marines drop like flies to skulks, even when they have the drop on them while they are eating RTs. Plus each marine gets only 1 grenade per spawn, hardly a useful item to deter skulks from eating RTs. Even if that marine is successful the first time he can't use the grenade until he dies, respawns, and then runs all the way back. I would think for skulks eating RTs (Fades are a whole other issue), mines are a cheap way to deter skulks early on. Smart placement of mines can be very cheap but effective. Naturally you will have to replenish the mines on occasion but, after a couple of deaths from mined rts, most skulks will learn to avoid rts, concentrate on the one rt they know mines are empty at (meaning the others are safe), or take their sweet time trying to attack RTs. Eithe way that goes you either buy yourself time for your RTs or protect them straight out. Keep in mind that 1 pack of 4 mines is as expensive as one whole turret but, requires no tf to power it, nor are they as easy to spot as a turret or electirfication.
Uhh....get phases at important locations (not all RTs, you can prolly reach the others in about 10 secs or less if you're good at putting them at places)
And of course, the count to a roving team of skulks is a roving team of marines....from afar (and that's where the problem starts)
And of course, the count to a roving team of skulks is a roving team of marines....from afar (and that's where the problem starts)
Heh my tactic us to electrify half the maps resource towers and have a line of unelectriced recource towers to the enemy line where my troops can protect with ease.
Saltz is right, elecing, pgs at every node, turrret farms everywhere are just ineffective and can be avoided by just pressuring the aliens into a situation where they cannot take out your nodes.
I give you an example of when saltz commed us on ayumi, their hive was ae35, we just sat in eastern entrance for ages and they couldn't do anything to move us and meanwhile a person just ran around capping everything. They couldn't attack our rts because we were pressuring them too much, we just ended up walking in and shotgunning their hive. Insanely easy.
If we'd ran around the map just constantly capping rts over and over again we wouldn't have won as comfortably and we'd have been playing on the aliens terms rather than our own.
I give you an example of when saltz commed us on ayumi, their hive was ae35, we just sat in eastern entrance for ages and they couldn't do anything to move us and meanwhile a person just ran around capping everything. They couldn't attack our rts because we were pressuring them too much, we just ended up walking in and shotgunning their hive. Insanely easy.
If we'd ran around the map just constantly capping rts over and over again we wouldn't have won as comfortably and we'd have been playing on the aliens terms rather than our own.
what bar must an rt be at for it to sucessfully recycle? cause when my rts are being taken down by a fade, id like to know how much res i could squeeze out of there and get the 5-7 res from the recylce
An easy and cheap way to guard RTs, provided 1-2 marines like to rove around guarding them, is to place 1-2 mines at the RT's blindspot.
QUite often, marines find a skulk chomping an rt, but the rt blocks the marine's shots. Marine moves in close, >50% chance of being chomped.
Those mines stop that. Skulk avoids mines, gets raped by marine. Skulk avoids marine, gets smithereened by mine.
At 1-2 mines per RT, this is a cheap and effective tactic, and you don't lose much if a fade comes.
The other way, as mentioned, is pressure. A marine ninja killing alien rts isn't as effective, simply because he is easier to kill, and is slower. A skulk may die, but can soon get to the nodes again.
However, if that ninja gets a shotgun to fast-kill RTs (2 clips), or some mines (drop around alien rt to guard marine) to cover him while knifing.
This is what I found works best so far, but is dependant on the quality of your team. Nades theoretically are good, but the 3 second prime time and the PING sound of it priming make it utterly worthless.
QUite often, marines find a skulk chomping an rt, but the rt blocks the marine's shots. Marine moves in close, >50% chance of being chomped.
Those mines stop that. Skulk avoids mines, gets raped by marine. Skulk avoids marine, gets smithereened by mine.
At 1-2 mines per RT, this is a cheap and effective tactic, and you don't lose much if a fade comes.
The other way, as mentioned, is pressure. A marine ninja killing alien rts isn't as effective, simply because he is easier to kill, and is slower. A skulk may die, but can soon get to the nodes again.
However, if that ninja gets a shotgun to fast-kill RTs (2 clips), or some mines (drop around alien rt to guard marine) to cover him while knifing.
This is what I found works best so far, but is dependant on the quality of your team. Nades theoretically are good, but the 3 second prime time and the PING sound of it priming make it utterly worthless.
electrify works great on skulks and lerks
I've been electing the RTs for some time until i noticed this is not effective enough as you loose a great amount of res on this. Better get your rines going get as many RTs as they can ( try to form a border-line trough the map where you can make sure the RTs behind this line as well guarded or can be reached fast by your border-line-rines :-)
If you attack their RTs and/or hives they usually have zero-time to attack your RTs ( another great aspect of not-elect is that you can move around the map incredible fast ).
If 6 rines attack your main hive those 3 clanners which stand at the other side of the map attacking your RTs are quite **** as you will mow down theyr hive in no time.
Oh just as a side-note - i usualy start electing when i get so much res i cannot spend anymore (full jp flying around and 200 RES left, to make sure those lill skulls won't mow my RTs down while i rape theyr hives )
If you attack their RTs and/or hives they usually have zero-time to attack your RTs ( another great aspect of not-elect is that you can move around the map incredible fast ).
If 6 rines attack your main hive those 3 clanners which stand at the other side of the map attacking your RTs are quite **** as you will mow down theyr hive in no time.
Oh just as a side-note - i usualy start electing when i get so much res i cannot spend anymore (full jp flying around and 200 RES left, to make sure those lill skulls won't mow my RTs down while i rape theyr hives )
Personally, i electrify. But i only take key RTs in the first place. Recently i've been trying to get the RTs in both unused hives at the very start of a round and then lock them down. Sure, res is slower than usual, but you have two very key points of the map secured. Also, being hive locations, you can afford to splash out with a TF, turrets and a PG, it's worth the investment.
However guys, i would be wary at taking Saltzbad's advice. Saltz only ever wins about 2 in 10 games, and the multitude that he loses is because of bad res node management. Trust me, i've been that single skulk that takes down 7-8 unelectrified nodes per game. Usually 2-3 per node. Res is the key to the game, without res, you lose, simple as that.
Electrification may seem expensive, and yes it takes time to pull back the res you invest. But if you think about it, what's worse. Spending 45 res to place and electrify a node, or spend that 45 res rebuilding your undefended nodes over and over again. Because a single, 0 upgrade skulk can take down as many unelectrified nodes as he likes, it takes a 2 hive gorge or a fade / onos to take down a single electrified node.
However guys, i would be wary at taking Saltzbad's advice. Saltz only ever wins about 2 in 10 games, and the multitude that he loses is because of bad res node management. Trust me, i've been that single skulk that takes down 7-8 unelectrified nodes per game. Usually 2-3 per node. Res is the key to the game, without res, you lose, simple as that.
Electrification may seem expensive, and yes it takes time to pull back the res you invest. But if you think about it, what's worse. Spending 45 res to place and electrify a node, or spend that 45 res rebuilding your undefended nodes over and over again. Because a single, 0 upgrade skulk can take down as many unelectrified nodes as he likes, it takes a 2 hive gorge or a fade / onos to take down a single electrified node.
With electrification, wether you win is mostly up to the alien team. Without it, wether you win is up to your team 
Hence yes, I lose frequently on pubs. You might notice though, with just a few reliable players (Sancho, Bob, Ben) I'll almost never loose unless raped into oblivion in the first 4 minutes. Ever wonder why?
And ironically, the same people on the Alien team, although none of us are especially good, will defeat electrification strats 100% of the time. Marines get contained fast due to lack of ups and non-aggressive strategy, we plow along nicely with the 4 minute fades and DCs and from there on the game is over minus a few complaints from the marines about balance.
Hence yes, I lose frequently on pubs. You might notice though, with just a few reliable players (Sancho, Bob, Ben) I'll almost never loose unless raped into oblivion in the first 4 minutes. Ever wonder why?
And ironically, the same people on the Alien team, although none of us are especially good, will defeat electrification strats 100% of the time. Marines get contained fast due to lack of ups and non-aggressive strategy, we plow along nicely with the 4 minute fades and DCs and from there on the game is over minus a few complaints from the marines about balance.
| QUOTE (Diablus @ Apr 9 2004, 07:06 PM) |
| what bar must an rt be at for it to sucessfully recycle? cause when my rts are being taken down by a fade, id like to know how much res i could squeeze out of there and get the 5-7 res from the recylce |
You can make it with a bar or so more than half, versus a single alien. Don't obsess over it though, your time is better spent with your marines, across the map, capping a res over there. I rarely see a node recycled in a scrim because it's not worth the 6 res to sit there watching.
I would say the first answer in original post is correct, shoot the skulks :-)
Imo best way is continually push aliens, try to take/hold certain vital points of map with skilled marines and then skulks just cant/dont run past them to eat RTs, if they do its easy for newly spawn marine to go there/kill it before RT is lost (single skulk needs 50secs to kill RT, 2 skulks need just 17seconds!!).
So even if you have hives locked, send your marines to crossroads near first hive, block aliens off and send some newly spawn rines to rebuild/hunt escaped skulks. Fades usually break this, but at fade time you should be preparing for deciding attack anyway..
Elect could be answer only if you are dealing with weak aliens, the problem is that you need upgrades continually, and if you spend res on electricity, you can have HA train later, but chances are rines will be overrun early (because of lacking upgrades) unable to grab more nodes.
Imo best way is continually push aliens, try to take/hold certain vital points of map with skilled marines and then skulks just cant/dont run past them to eat RTs, if they do its easy for newly spawn marine to go there/kill it before RT is lost (single skulk needs 50secs to kill RT, 2 skulks need just 17seconds!!).
So even if you have hives locked, send your marines to crossroads near first hive, block aliens off and send some newly spawn rines to rebuild/hunt escaped skulks. Fades usually break this, but at fade time you should be preparing for deciding attack anyway..
Elect could be answer only if you are dealing with weak aliens, the problem is that you need upgrades continually, and if you spend res on electricity, you can have HA train later, but chances are rines will be overrun early (because of lacking upgrades) unable to grab more nodes.
It takes almost as long to recycle as it takes for the node to be profitable to the same degree, so even if you have enough time to recycle it you'd be getting less res back that way. So only recycle unbuilt nodes :o
Yes that's very valid tip :-)
By the 50secs skulk needs to kill it RT makes more res than res got back by recycling.
Unbuilt structures are recycled more efficiently, giving 80% of res back, so always try to recycle unbuilt structures.
On the other hand if you skulk and see finished RT being recycled, move away and try to kill another RT (comm just wasted res and saved your time!!). But if you see recycling unbuilt RT and have another skulk around try to kill it...
By the 50secs skulk needs to kill it RT makes more res than res got back by recycling.
Unbuilt structures are recycled more efficiently, giving 80% of res back, so always try to recycle unbuilt structures.
On the other hand if you skulk and see finished RT being recycled, move away and try to kill another RT (comm just wasted res and saved your time!!). But if you see recycling unbuilt RT and have another skulk around try to kill it...
I will never understand why mines aren't dropped more often. They are the ultimate low cost, low maintnence defense for RTs against skulks. I mean, you get four of them for 10 res, the guy with the pack can place them instantly, and anyone who understands blindspots will know where to place all four of them for maximum efficiency.
The way I see it, you have to think of your RTs in terms of how close to the core of your base they are.
You never mine or electrify the RT in base. That's just dumb unless it's one of those bizarre maps where the MS RT is off in some godawful side room or something.
The second ring of RTs, which are the ones that are a thirty to fortyfive second jog from the IPs, are the ones you want to mine. Most maps have two RTs that are the inner ring for marines, sometimes three. If you drop a pack of mines for each RT, thats twenty to thirty res to cover two to three RTs completely. Mines force any increasingly stupid and persistent skulk to stand away from the RT's blindspot and constantly listen for footsteps, meaning the first guy who gets there either kills or pulls away the skulk and saves the day. Problem solved. Mines are the cheapest, most hassle free way for a com to let his team secure nearby RTs by themselves. If you know people on the server well enough to trust them, two guys with a pack of mines each will guarantee you won't fall below three RTs at a time.
The only time I would consider electrifying RTs or using turret defenses is when it's some key position where electricity or turrets would make the positions extremely dangerous for aliens. This would be the third ring of marine expansion, which can include Double res, hive locations, and RT deeper in enemy territory, such that you might encounter on ns_nothing, ns_agora, ns_mineshaft and so forth, but mines are still totally viable depending on how closely the com and his team are working.
I draw a comparrison with mines to web. Mines and web are extremely basic and versatile, but only when the person using them is a smart, experienced player with a plan for their use. Not only that, but unless the skulk knows they are there, seldom will they check the first time, meaning you get 1 to 3 res back on the mines almost guaranteed, and more bonus RFK from there. Mines placed near the center of a res node are nearly invisible in the blur of the game, making the apparently undefended RT look irresistable. This is another plus for mines, usually a pack of well placed mines will all result in a kill, sometimes two or three depending on the crowd. Unlike turret farms and the Blue Glow of Death, mined RTs are much harder to spot, since they look deliciously undefended at a glance.
I can get you four or even five kills for the ten res you drop on me for a pack of mines, not to mention I don't have to be in the same place as the objective to defend it. In that respect, you're better off dropping me a pack of mines every two minutes of the game than you are shotguns at roughly the same rate.
And we don't even need to start talking about the potential of mine ladders.
I'm going to personally start a campaign of Mine Advancement, where-in I play hours of CO games one week getting record numbers of mine kills, then the next week play only NS games and ask for mines and see if anyone was paying attention the week before. Social engineering<3
The way I see it, you have to think of your RTs in terms of how close to the core of your base they are.
You never mine or electrify the RT in base. That's just dumb unless it's one of those bizarre maps where the MS RT is off in some godawful side room or something.
The second ring of RTs, which are the ones that are a thirty to fortyfive second jog from the IPs, are the ones you want to mine. Most maps have two RTs that are the inner ring for marines, sometimes three. If you drop a pack of mines for each RT, thats twenty to thirty res to cover two to three RTs completely. Mines force any increasingly stupid and persistent skulk to stand away from the RT's blindspot and constantly listen for footsteps, meaning the first guy who gets there either kills or pulls away the skulk and saves the day. Problem solved. Mines are the cheapest, most hassle free way for a com to let his team secure nearby RTs by themselves. If you know people on the server well enough to trust them, two guys with a pack of mines each will guarantee you won't fall below three RTs at a time.
The only time I would consider electrifying RTs or using turret defenses is when it's some key position where electricity or turrets would make the positions extremely dangerous for aliens. This would be the third ring of marine expansion, which can include Double res, hive locations, and RT deeper in enemy territory, such that you might encounter on ns_nothing, ns_agora, ns_mineshaft and so forth, but mines are still totally viable depending on how closely the com and his team are working.
I draw a comparrison with mines to web. Mines and web are extremely basic and versatile, but only when the person using them is a smart, experienced player with a plan for their use. Not only that, but unless the skulk knows they are there, seldom will they check the first time, meaning you get 1 to 3 res back on the mines almost guaranteed, and more bonus RFK from there. Mines placed near the center of a res node are nearly invisible in the blur of the game, making the apparently undefended RT look irresistable. This is another plus for mines, usually a pack of well placed mines will all result in a kill, sometimes two or three depending on the crowd. Unlike turret farms and the Blue Glow of Death, mined RTs are much harder to spot, since they look deliciously undefended at a glance.
I can get you four or even five kills for the ten res you drop on me for a pack of mines, not to mention I don't have to be in the same place as the objective to defend it. In that respect, you're better off dropping me a pack of mines every two minutes of the game than you are shotguns at roughly the same rate.
And we don't even need to start talking about the potential of mine ladders.
I'm going to personally start a campaign of Mine Advancement, where-in I play hours of CO games one week getting record numbers of mine kills, then the next week play only NS games and ask for mines and see if anyone was paying attention the week before. Social engineering<3
| QUOTE (Swift Idiot @ Apr 10 2004, 09:40 PM) |
| I'm going to personally start a campaign of Mine Advancement, where-in I play hours of CO games one week getting record numbers of mine kills, then the next week play only NS games and ask for mines and see if anyone was paying attention the week before. Social engineering<3 |
this comment is gold.
Mine up a rt, take a screenie, circle the mines, and post it here for us.
^^^^^^^^
Today I have to buckle down and write some things for my classes, but if I have time at the end of the day, I'll do that, and edit them into this post.
Update to follow:
Sorry for the massive size.
Today I have to buckle down and write some things for my classes, but if I have time at the end of the day, I'll do that, and edit them into this post.
Update to follow:
Sorry for the massive size.
| QUOTE (SaltzBad @ Apr 10 2004, 11:18 AM) |
| You might notice though, with just a few reliable players (Sancho, Bob, Ben) I'll almost never loose unless raped into oblivion in the first 4 minutes. Ever wonder why? |
What about me? I'm reliable.....sometimes....almost....
Theres alot more great players on LM Asal, those 3 were just randomly picked 
Heck, as long as its not the "Wheres Keyhole?" crowd I'm happy.
Heck, as long as its not the "Wheres Keyhole?" crowd I'm happy.
I was just joking around, man. If I did that more, people wouldn't take me seriously when I want to be, though. Sad times, these.
Mine screenshot looks cool, but is this distance good enough to prevent mines from exlpoding all together?
I don't think mines set each other off in 3.0.
One more reason to use them now more than ever.
One more reason to use them now more than ever.
They dont set off each other, but alien might explode them all at once..
Imagine 4 mines in same place, once skulk runs above them they explode all, because they were all too close to skulk.. (There is slight delay allowing one weak alien to detonate many mines).
Imagine 4 mines in same place, once skulk runs above them they explode all, because they were all too close to skulk.. (There is slight delay allowing one weak alien to detonate many mines).
Are you certain about this? Even if it is true, I think if you hide them under the legs of the RT, they are far enough apart to not all go off at once. The only thing that would set them together is larger aliens like the fade. In that case, you're still getting a deal, since multiple mines exploding at once will damage a fade respectably. Regardless, mines around an rt, even at a distance, will still have the desired effect of luring skulks in, blowing them up, and making them look twice if they ever try it again.
I did a test and you were right, they explode 1by1 now, even if they are very close and skulk "jumps" on them.
Those mines are SNEAKY! It took me a second to find them when I was standing still! I'm gonna have to do that. I'll ask comm for a pack of mines and see what happens.
Since this thread parallels the one going on about ways to use mines and how good they are or are not, I should point random things out for everyone:
If you're going to be buying mines as a com, or if you're going to be requesting them from your com, it's a good idea to keep in mind how many you need for a job.
You get four mines in a 10 res pack, the same cost as a shotgun or a turret. If you want the pack of mines to pay for itself with kills, you have to lay them where they will all get triggered by skulks or lerks. I can't stress enough that there is a correct side to place mines on when it comes to buildings, it's not like you just put them in a circle around the things. They're for the back end only, the side of the RT you can't shoot if a skulk is hiding behind it. Figure out which way you'll be walking when you pass by the RT on your way towards the hive, which side the alien will be on to try and avoid marine fire, and stick them mostly back there.
Usually, you only need 3 mines to mine up an RT, two in back, one in front, but if you're sneaky and the RT is in a tight corner, you can probably skate by with 2. That leaves one or two mines left for the marine (YOU) to fool around with. Any place in the level which is narrow enough that aliens have no choice but walking over certain places, such as the exit to low vents, or narrow doorways like you would see in ns_nancy are the first places to put leftover mines. Just pay attention to which direction and doorways the skulks are using, and stick the mines somewhere they will have trouble seeing or avoiding.
Four mines is a lot of explosive power, tbh. If you're anywhere except a phasegate in enemy territory, using more than one pack of mines in a single room means that someone is wasting mines and resources putting them places where they aren't killing approaching skulks. If you're a com, and you're going to hand out mines, make sure you give them to the guy who is asking for them, knows what to do with them, or drop them in a corner somewhere Joe J. Average-Noob won't accidentally pick them up and put twelve mines all in the marine start. If worse comes to worse, you can always wait for your marines to go res-grabbing, drop yourself a pack of mines, hop out for ten seconds to mine up the IPs, armory, and arms lab, and hop back in. Works in a pinch.
Mines still seem rather buggy to me. It's still possible to place them THROUGH structures. If you stand in the center of a phase gate or aim too far into the center of an RT, the mine will not be placed, sometimes will blow up the moment you place it, sometimes hang in midair above the structure, and so on. Play a game on an empty server or create your own with sv_cheats 1 activated, and try putting down mines around various structures. Usually, it's a lot better not to get fancy with how you're hiding the mines. Just put them on the ground very close to the buildings. They shouldn't be clipping all the way into the building, even though you can put them that close. The reason you actually want them a little bit off the center of the building is because skulks have a HUGE bite range, and if they know mines are around an RT, they will usually try any way possible to bite it without setting off the mines. Mostly, this means they'll be on the wall above the RT biting it, or they will be on top of the RT or something, and if you're walking by, you can just blow them right off. But keep in mind, not every skulk presses as close to buildings as he can before biting.
Mines are not offensive tools. You cannot use them very effectively to try and move into an area. Mine rushing can be done, but it's very wasteful, and this is why: After a mine rush, count how many mines are left on the ground in your area. Every fourth leftover mine means a completely wasted pack. Mines are VERY good defensive tools, especially if you've just pulled a raid into enemy territory and you have no doubt the skulks are going to respawn and come kill you all and take back that part of the map. A scattering of mines means you can often hold off several waves of desperate skulks before having to replenish the mines on the ground or losing the position.
STAND NEAR YOUR MINES. I can't stress this enough. Just like you mine up structures by putting the mines very closeby, a marine standing in a minefield is going to have way less worries about skulks getting him. On the other hand, a marine who places his mines somewhere, then runs ahead instead of waiting and baiting some aliens into the mines, is a shortsighted idiot who wants his frags right now and can't wait thirty seconds for the alien respawn. Mines are a huge problem for skulks, and if you make a wedge of mines in front of you, you can usually squat in a corner twenty yards from their hive, and it'll take anywhere from three to five skulks to try and kill you before succeeding.
That's all I can think of right now. Play combat and learn how to use dark spots and tight places to conceal mines and get loads of kills in the early game. Frankly, no combat upgrade will save you from focus skulks better than camping behind perimeter of mines. It's my number one first upgrade on any CO_ server with more than 7 alien players.
If you're going to be buying mines as a com, or if you're going to be requesting them from your com, it's a good idea to keep in mind how many you need for a job.
You get four mines in a 10 res pack, the same cost as a shotgun or a turret. If you want the pack of mines to pay for itself with kills, you have to lay them where they will all get triggered by skulks or lerks. I can't stress enough that there is a correct side to place mines on when it comes to buildings, it's not like you just put them in a circle around the things. They're for the back end only, the side of the RT you can't shoot if a skulk is hiding behind it. Figure out which way you'll be walking when you pass by the RT on your way towards the hive, which side the alien will be on to try and avoid marine fire, and stick them mostly back there.
Usually, you only need 3 mines to mine up an RT, two in back, one in front, but if you're sneaky and the RT is in a tight corner, you can probably skate by with 2. That leaves one or two mines left for the marine (YOU) to fool around with. Any place in the level which is narrow enough that aliens have no choice but walking over certain places, such as the exit to low vents, or narrow doorways like you would see in ns_nancy are the first places to put leftover mines. Just pay attention to which direction and doorways the skulks are using, and stick the mines somewhere they will have trouble seeing or avoiding.
Four mines is a lot of explosive power, tbh. If you're anywhere except a phasegate in enemy territory, using more than one pack of mines in a single room means that someone is wasting mines and resources putting them places where they aren't killing approaching skulks. If you're a com, and you're going to hand out mines, make sure you give them to the guy who is asking for them, knows what to do with them, or drop them in a corner somewhere Joe J. Average-Noob won't accidentally pick them up and put twelve mines all in the marine start. If worse comes to worse, you can always wait for your marines to go res-grabbing, drop yourself a pack of mines, hop out for ten seconds to mine up the IPs, armory, and arms lab, and hop back in. Works in a pinch.
Mines still seem rather buggy to me. It's still possible to place them THROUGH structures. If you stand in the center of a phase gate or aim too far into the center of an RT, the mine will not be placed, sometimes will blow up the moment you place it, sometimes hang in midair above the structure, and so on. Play a game on an empty server or create your own with sv_cheats 1 activated, and try putting down mines around various structures. Usually, it's a lot better not to get fancy with how you're hiding the mines. Just put them on the ground very close to the buildings. They shouldn't be clipping all the way into the building, even though you can put them that close. The reason you actually want them a little bit off the center of the building is because skulks have a HUGE bite range, and if they know mines are around an RT, they will usually try any way possible to bite it without setting off the mines. Mostly, this means they'll be on the wall above the RT biting it, or they will be on top of the RT or something, and if you're walking by, you can just blow them right off. But keep in mind, not every skulk presses as close to buildings as he can before biting.
Mines are not offensive tools. You cannot use them very effectively to try and move into an area. Mine rushing can be done, but it's very wasteful, and this is why: After a mine rush, count how many mines are left on the ground in your area. Every fourth leftover mine means a completely wasted pack. Mines are VERY good defensive tools, especially if you've just pulled a raid into enemy territory and you have no doubt the skulks are going to respawn and come kill you all and take back that part of the map. A scattering of mines means you can often hold off several waves of desperate skulks before having to replenish the mines on the ground or losing the position.
STAND NEAR YOUR MINES. I can't stress this enough. Just like you mine up structures by putting the mines very closeby, a marine standing in a minefield is going to have way less worries about skulks getting him. On the other hand, a marine who places his mines somewhere, then runs ahead instead of waiting and baiting some aliens into the mines, is a shortsighted idiot who wants his frags right now and can't wait thirty seconds for the alien respawn. Mines are a huge problem for skulks, and if you make a wedge of mines in front of you, you can usually squat in a corner twenty yards from their hive, and it'll take anywhere from three to five skulks to try and kill you before succeeding.
That's all I can think of right now. Play combat and learn how to use dark spots and tight places to conceal mines and get loads of kills in the early game. Frankly, no combat upgrade will save you from focus skulks better than camping behind perimeter of mines. It's my number one first upgrade on any CO_ server with more than 7 alien players.
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