Ok, i was in #nsmapping (as usual) and i was talking to someone called MrBill, and he claimed he had a fully functioning marine vs marine map. At first i was skeptical but after being random banned by zazi, me, mr bill and a few others including belg and brute_force decided to test the map. The map was merely a test to showcase the possibility of m vs m play and not very pretty. But played and were very impressed to find that it actually worked properly. Before long we were trying to shoot the crap out of each other across large rooms, upgrading to higher weapons etc. Firstly marine team 1, are the same, but marine team 2 are team 3, and are green on the scoreboard. I'll post a screeny. If you want to ask mr bill about how this works (i don't know all the details) you will probably find him voiced on #flaytona on gamesurge. Hopefully we will see marine vs marine maps popping up before long. There are a few issues, for instance, the teams can't tell each other apart, unless there is a plugin to highlight each team a certain colour. Also, apparently green team can shoot their own cc's (but not their armouries) , and welding does damage to their cc.

[edit] forgot the pic and made a correction pointed out by belg

mostly correct. team three (green) can shoot their own CC, but not repair it. that's the main gripe right now. and of course we need different models. but other than that it's rather fun.

Random screen

And yes, there were issues. GL spam, for example, was horrible. Mines work as normal

My opinion on this is quite simple:

Sounds intriguing.
/me prepares for people to rush to make mvm maps just like they did with co maps

...and so marks the beginning of the end of ns...

I mean, that's interesting

pessimism

but seriously, i think most of the potential lies in classic

No examples of Kharra vs. Kharra?

According to mr bill he is working on that right now, and hopefully will be testing it soon. It is a slightly different situation to marine vs marine.

I have to assume at this point after being offically told that marine vs marine code was not enabled , fat lier. Anyway my asumption.... Marine Verses Marine is enabled in beta 4? Hence the mistery sentance posted in the news... I bet thats what the news is hideing for us, not like ive spoilt the suprise scince its so darn obvious.

thats what i suggested to mr bill - refering to soylent green

I guess I should post here, considering.

But yeah that's what im working on now (to reffere to the AVA) I'm not too sure which team the team 1 would be moved too, but as soon as i do it'll be all good.

Once I do figure out the aliens though, I will post how to do this, so any other mappers out there that would like to make a fun ava or mvm map can. (thast dosn't look like hell and has hella gamma) so for now enjoy co_sillyv3, and look for the silly room itslef (youll know it if you find it, trust me )

Does this require cheats on as the previous MvM maps do?

My hypothesis is that this works (where Classic didn't) because Combat uses totally different victory conditions.

IMO, different models are not needed, just different skins; red/blue armour anybody?

The best that can be done now, is to play with friendly fire off. If you shoot it and it bleeds, it's enemy, if it sparks, it's friendly. Buildings out and about would be impossible to tell, though odds are, if it shoots/zaps you, it's not your team's

also, if MarineVsMarine scenarios ever goes official, they should definately use BrigadierWolf's SpecOps models for the 'other' marines...

so, it'd be MarinesVsSpecOps scenarios... man that'd be rockn'roll, woulnd't it?...


going further into the rambling madness of this idea:
it'd also be interesting if every time a map loads on a server, it randomly picks whether it'll use TSA SpecOps or TSA Frontiersmen, just as an added feature...

'twould be nice... 'twould, 'twould, 'twould indeed... o_O

these comments o' mine should go in Feedback/Suggestions, shouldn't they?...

About the new "system" being MvM official, I doubt it. Look at the people involved: Flayra, XP-Cagey, and Joev. Yes, Flayra and XP-Cagey would support the MvM support, but Joev is the web/web programming/server dev, so I feel that rules out MvM.

My guess? One of two things; one, NS distributed through Steam. VALVe has announced it publicly now. Only reason it might not be this is that Flayra claims they've been working hard on this, and NS on Steam would be a simple matter of emailing the mod to VALVe.

My second guess? A central NS map repository for everybody to sv_downloadurl from. As you may know, Half-Life recently added support to download maps in-game at high speed from HTTP servers instead of right off the game server. For servers with access to a high-bandwidth web host, like servers with their own dedicated servers, this works great. However, smaller servers can't take advantage of it. Perhaps the dev team is working on some sort of system where you can upload a map and set your server to download it off the NS central server so that any server can take advantage of it. Who knows! Time will tell.

I _have_ recolored the marine models to red, and wrote a small plugin to change the models, but there are some small snags with it. Like me being able to walk through Bill, and being unable to damage him. =P

(btw, that's me admin_slapping olmy in that second screen )


Marines vs. marines and aliens vs. aliens WASN'T originally intended to work. When we tested it in ns_ mode (first attempt with ns_gar. Which was fullbright, causing my eyes to start to melt), it crashed the serv twice. Then we got it going in co_ (co_gar, yay!), but game ended when it started... Probably due to a lack of a hive being in the game. I'm not sure how bill fixed that, but I think it was by placing an extra hive somewhere or something. Or really smucking with the teams =P



Personally I find marines vs. marines stupid (it's just me) after about an hour of playing it (though I might just change my mind on a 8vs8 server).
I'm more interested in the possibility of getting aliens vs. aliens going =)

I just had an idea... You know how admin mods (adminmod, amxmod) have a "glow" command?

If that glowing effect could be applied over the entire body, instead of in the current method of partial-coverage... And to structures and dropped items... Perhaps a metamod plugin could do this.

It's not as good as a full set of new skins, since the plugin would tint the models red/blue all over (even face) instead of just on certain parts of the skin, but it would make this mode playable.

Also, it's probably possible to fix the mentioned CommChair problems with a metamod plugin; that is, to make it so team 3 can weld their own CC, and can't hurt it.

Roll those two things into an MvM plugin, and you've got fully functional fully playable MvM without built-in support from NS

tride out AvA and it worked =p

I've always wanted the TSA versus non-TSA troops. Given the backstory, TSA infighting doesn't make a lick of sense; the TSA enforcing their charter against nations or corporations does. In that sense, the TSA already are the SpecOps.

First of all, im just wondering if this is just ns 3.0 supported?(I'm still on WON, steam doestn work for me ) I must agree, while it would be cool to have MvM maps since you can build buildings and stuff, we see MvM type things all of the time. Humans fighting humans with guns.... ...CS, FA, DOD, ect. AvA on the other hand would be an entirely new experience. I'm just rather curious what you would do about hives? 6 hives? since hives aren't defined to a certain side I could see many problems with getting this to work, like 1 side haveing 4 hives? even though you can only view 3 on your... um... toolbar thingy. And also if you did define the hives to certain teams it might seem kind of messed up because you could only place the hives in these certain spots, so there would be open hive spots but they would be unbuildable, limiting the gameplay. They glowing for different teams would probebly be the simplest way to define the differnt teams(blue & green? i think those are the best NS based colors in my opinion). If you could get [WHO]them working on it you would have it made, he does alot of ns based plugins. heck when ever i start up a server and it lists the plugins all i see is
[WHO]them
[WHO]them
[WHO]them
[WHO]them

lol. you could ask him, he could probebly whip it up fairly easily from the way i think about it. I mean i dont know anything about codeing but all i think it would consist of would be like if 'jointeamone' or 'jointeamtwo' is intitiated set player to 'glow blue' or 'glow green'. now im sure it's alot more complicated but I was just throwing about guesses(so dont bugger me about it!).

And personaly, changing the skins to specops.... .....it just wouldnt seem like ns. I guess it just seems.... unNSy.

The idea for metamod to fix the welding seems like it should be able to work, they got plugins for being able to weld self, weld building to electrify, etc., etc. and i dont see why you couldn't make comm not attackable. I think those idea would be your best bet to setting up MvM or AvA maps/games. The only problem i could think of would be alien cloaking.... ....I not sure but can you see the glow while an alien is cloaked?

And lastly where can we download this map (steam doesnt work on net but I can play LAN)

WOW i think im done.....

...uh....YEP!

TSA troops infected with the Kharaa bacteria and they go crazy.

and still comeing out of IPs

Next thing you know they are gonna want to have MvMvKvK maps....


help....

spinning....

into...

HLDM.....

How do you trigger the cc death?

I got AvA working, but the round won't end because I don't know the command to kill the cc.

See, this is how hw makes the game end in MvM

"targetondeath" "hurthive"

On the second CC.

Turn on a trigger_hurt around the CC with a damage level of 10000 would be my guess.

harr, gj guys
i have been toying around whith those setings to, just havent got me lazt but moving to do somthing

gj ! alien vs alien will be mighty fun !
maybe add just 5hives, giving whoever controle the extra one the advantage

TSA vs Colonists getting tired of lack of protection in the outer rim.

or TSA vs Corporation Tactical Ops, sent in to stop the TSA from uncovering their nasty little secret aboard the particular research vessel...

On another note, as i see it, A VS A would have 4 hives, where each team start at one randomly and going for the other two, the victor having 3 hives and the loser being stuck at one, shortly before their own destruction.

there will be some problems with A vs A though, like oc spam will not be effective at protecting gorges because skulks could just quickly jump them and start biting the hell out of the gorge... just one issue i considered.

Why would TSA fight TSA, and aliens fight aliens? It's not logical... also it would take the thing out of NS which makes NS to be NS:
Mostly on the marine side:
Fear, atmophere, "cinimatic feeling"

We would need a third team, but is there room for a third team in the hl-engine?

Now I'm not agains this idea (well I am against aliens vs aliens ), but it needs work and a very good backstory to make it plauseable if it would be implimented officialy into NS...

I read somewhere that theres is a maximum number of weapons/buildings the hl engine can handle. And a new team would need new weapons/buildings. Or at least I think it should (not sure if it is possible to impliment more weapons in NS, there are mods for the hl-egine with much more weapons then NS)

But my point is: would't it be much nicer to have a third human based team, specializing in sabotage, mutations/bio enginering and a combo of ranged and melee weapons?

I think it would be cool to see a humanoid alien race. Sorta like the Predator.

just a thought, would the oni's go and stomp eachother??..

has noone thought that holotraining would be the ideal excuse for MVM combat? I'm guessing the TSA wouldn't just be fighting aliens as their name is "Trans System Authority", implying that they keep the peace in general like a police force would do. If this was true, then they would require to be trained to fight against armed human assailants, and what better way to train for fighting armed humans than to train against the best equipped body of men in the universe, yourselves

but would that be as fun as the idea of fighting against another human force, sent in to stop your mission?

thats true, but if i understand correctly, doesn't MvM only work in co_ style maps? rather than ns_ style?

I take MvM and AvA to mean nothing. You can't really do anything with it story wise. It's just silly fun. Of course it's not going to fit into the official story. Just take these modes and consider them 'pure gameplay', without any backing story to make sense of them. Because really, there's not going to be one.

My memory isnt the best, but i think, there was a line like this on suggestions forum: "There wont be 3rd team"
I think, marine vs marine include a 3rd team

This type of thing has been around for ages in mods like TFC

Where they have added another team, but good work anyways


'wth??!!?!!?'

K, to clear a feew things up,

1. it's combat ONLY. I dont know the reasonning but ns_ maps will crash if you try so its COMBAT ONLY, so dont worry about ns_ problems there wont BE any

2. The cc problem I have theories on how to fix that already, by the end of the day (or week) i'll probably be able to tell if it works or not soon

Ill finish this later, when im at my own computer.