Things that a commander hates in the first ten minutes of a game. When they said "If you're new to NS, join the Marines team" they weren't kidding...

--"Commander, we need a resources tower right here." bob the marine says. Right after the commander gave bob a waypoint to a hive.

First of all, not only bob waste his time sitting in a spot where the commander isn't going to pay attention, he draws other marines to sit at the same location whom just so happen to pass-by.

Secondly, just where the hell is "right here"? All resource points have a room name, a seasoned commander will know where you are talking about when you say the room name. It usually helps to use the command yell right after stating your position.

Always check how many RESOURCES your team have before spamming the com net for stuff. If you see the resources going down, that means your commander is preoccuipied with something at the moment, PLEASE do not take the commander's attention away from the fray.

I cannot stress the importance of not spamming the com net. It ruins your commander and your fellow marine's abilities to function in the optium level. If three people is talking on the com at the same time, how does a marine hear the footsteps of an alien (a vital tatic to stay alive in the beginning of the game).

--"Commander, why dont we have any turrets in our base/resource tower, we need a turret factory!" bob the marine whines.

"Know the enemy and know yourself then you won't lose a battle" uh a quote from somewhere I forget. It isn't really hard to take down a turret factory because there are always going to be a blind spot where the turrent can't reach. As a skulk I can say if there isn't a marine around, even the most turreted turret factory can be taken down by just one skulk (or 2, 3 times respawned). I myself do not trust and rely on turrets that much. I only turrent an overtaken hive or a forward base.

--"but whats preventing some skulks coming in and eat everything?" bob the marine retorted.

OK, do you know how hard it is for a commander to type in the NS commanding interface? I look like an idiot half the time when I type, "GO in the GOD DAMN PHASE GATE" and it turns into "GO in th GOD amn PHAE GATE" then subsequently, "PHAE GATE" then again, "PHAE GATE" and again "OMG PHAE gate!". Then a marine would casually say, "its called a phase gate." I just wasted 30 seconds typing something when I could be dropping medkits in a heated battle.
Whatever the commander does, may he be stupid or not (you can blame him when you lose if he is), you FOLLOW. Questioning the commander only slows the team down. Or else, the marines are to blame if you lose.

When I send a group to the hive I always way point a marine or two in our base and tell them to stay in base to guard or build advance buildings. There is never a time when the group I sent have been all alive by the time they're at the hive. That means at least one or two marines will respawn back in our base. There is no reason to spend 25+19+19...maybe +19 = 82 resources on our base because it isn't even a hive. If the group is all dead, there is always the distress beacon to spawn the whole team back (that is, most aliens bite the spawn portals first, not the observertory).

--"WTF commander, why did you build a phase gate insted of a turret factory in the beginning of the game, recycle it NOW" bob the marine scowled.

Ok, think of how marines die and spawn. Usually when you have a group going out, the aliens weed out the marines one by one. So, when the marine spawn, they spawn one by one (or sometimes two). Do you think the marine will stay in the spawn right after you just tell him to? No way, he'll just run back out on his own and die again and again. Now, if we have a phase gate up somewhere else, he will jump right into the action, rather than either spending 35 seconds walking god knows where.

--"Commander, we need a siege here! We can reach the hive from here!" exclaimed bob the marine. After the commander puts down a tf, turrets and a phase gate nearby an alien hive all in the first 5 minutes of the game and repeatedly yelled, "go in the phase gate and just shoot the ****** hive.

Keep in mind this is the first 5 minutes of the game, how can a commander put all that up with only 1-2 (or maybe 3 if the commander is feeling lucky) resource towers and put up an arms lab 50 + upgrade +25 siege cannon +25 = 100. I usually have motion up in the first 10 minutes if the marine team is good. Thats another 45.

What do you think the commander is thinking when he fortified an area with a phase gate in the first 5 minutes of the game? What do you think commander is thinking when he is said "just shoot the damn hive, more than half of the aliens are dead already!" A lot of people under estimate the power of the light machine gun. They don't realise how fast a hive goes down when you have 4-5 marine with lmgs shooting it.

Some of you might think I'm exaggerating but this is exactally what happen when I com today which inspired me to write this note.

I told these marines to shoot the hive in data core on the map hera. I had a phase gate, 3 turrent, walled tf in processing right under the wall of that vent heading into ventilation hive.

Guess what the marines told me? One of them said, "Commander, lets get that resource nozzle right there!" when I didn't and told them to shoot the hive, he said, "this commander must be one of them lazy ones."

Another marine said, "we can siege the hive from here!" when there were absolutely no defense/offensive towers in the hive. "We have enought resources to build one!" he says. When we only had about 30-40 and I didnt even have an arms lab yet (arms lab takes 50).

Then another marine said, "what does shooting the hive do?" (NO JOKE)

After about 3 minutes of holding that little base, one skulk of the 3 alive ones finally wisen up and attack our base. As it turned out, no marines were at base at that time so I had to jump out of the chair right before saying "cc under attack" and shoot it when it was eating the chair. It killed me however, but while I was respawning, one marine got up the elevator and killed it, then he hopped in the chair (the same marine that told us to siege it when there were only 3 alien alive). He then proclaimed he will siege the hive. At that same moment, finally one marine with a pulse said, "just unload on that hive" miraclously, they listened to that marine and won the game after about 12 minutes since that phase gate was up (should take no longer than 2 minutes for 4-5 marines to kill a undefended hive. That is, including the time taken to kill the respawning aliens, and constant med/ammo drops).

ok enought of me blabbling, back to the topic:

--unupgradeable turrent factories

--screwed up commander interface. Everything auto-deselect right after you click it.

--Typing to communicate (I should get a Mic). PHAE PHAE PHAE GATE.

--Two more things that tics me off is how poorly some of these player are. It only takes a fraction of a clip to kill a skulk, but sometimes as a commander, I see whole group (like 4-5) of marines getting killed by one skulk after I told them exactally where that skulk is. It is just sad...

One other thing is that a marine will say, "this commander sucks" or "eject the commander" when the commander is alive and responding to the marines. First of all, you just killed the moral of your team. Second, the commander's morale will go down as well, and more likely to plan secret plots to nail you down with a turret factory on your head rather than destorying the aliens.

If the commander is alive and talking, there is no reason to eject him unless he is a total NOOB or being stupid with laser mines.

Other no-nos that already have been stressed by other posts...
-requesting for shotguns and died no longer than 1 minute with it.
-stealing gears such as welders that you never requested/meant for others.
-let a shotgun hmg grenade launcher or welder dissappear when you're right next to it.
-requesting for upgrades when the resources arent even over 20.
-Afking while in a team.
-requesting for ammo when you're 6 second away from the spawn ( I still can't figure out why they do that).
-go on and take a stroll when we have two phase gates up already. ALWAYS take the phase gate if there are more than one up already. It is where the action is, or is near.
-staying on the phase gate after getting on it. ALWAYS move when you get on a phase gate.
- --->(phasegate)--->
-sitting next to an armory when the commander gave you an order.
-shooting a resource tower with a light machine gun alone when its at full health.
-knifing a resource tower when the commander told you not to.
-continue knifing the resource tower after your teammate just got eaten.
-continue knifing the alien after you just got bitten.
-pull out your damn gun and help your teammate! (had this happen to me at least 5 time as a marine. A marine kept knifing when I was holding off 2-3 skulks by myself)
-Going into the hive and shooting random stuff when the commander told you to build stuff outside.
-Use your flashlights, its there for a reason.

hmmm I think there're probably more but I can't think of it at the moment, please post your worse marine team experience as a commander here

And here I thought you were just a really mean Kharaa. Nice thoughts on the annoyances... and I agree with you totally - they sound really aggrivating to deal with. I think it's a curse that's going to haunt pubs forever. I'm willing to bet most of the players ticking the commanders off are either a) some other commander's favorite, expecting you to know just how uber they are (come on... don't you know how UBER and L33t they are?) or b) used to Santa Commander (a trap newbie commanders fall into... actually handing out those shottys and jetpacks when Joe Awesome asks for it). It only has to work once and the behavior's there to stay.

All I've got to say is : unless the commander's AFK, ejecting is really dumb. Just because he's not catering to YOUR demands doesn't mean he's not doing his job. I still don't hop in the chair unless nobody else is up to it (and even then it's only to pop out infantry portals and an armory) and anybody with the balls to jump into the grief magnet (that's the commander's chair) has my respect.

If only the commander could control who could talk and who couldn't... that would make understanding orders much easier.

Until then... I'll try not to be Bob Marine.

Good advice, keep it flowin

Here's a couple for ya.

http://www.ww-unleashed.com/projectjrp/new...l_soldierlosses

http://www.ww-unleashed.com/projectjrp/new...serverblacklist

More often than not, I end up playing as commander on nearly every public server I visit.

And more often than not, I end up with marines who do exactly what chia-ono describes.

There are WAY too many "Marine Bobs" out there.

The sheer absolute frustration at this kind of behaviour is impossible to describe to anyone who hasnt been a commander and experienced it themselves.

There's only 1 thing I ever ask of marines under my direction:

Never, under any circumstances, second guess the commander. He can see everything, he knows where the kharaa hives are, he knows where all the resource nodes are, and he knows what he can and cannot build.

The only time I will even consider ejecting a commander is when a marine gets into the CC and sits there in utter silence, building nothing. Even new commanders have to learn, but there's no excuse for lamers.

i hate it when people call turrets "turrents" (check through your entire post...)
they are called turrets.
not "turrents"...
let me guess...you call nades "gernades"...

(Fixing incorrect topic date due to server issue)

While it's not wise to second-guess you commander, it's not stupid to offer suggestions. As astute commander would know when it's a Marine Bob calling for an unnecessary siege outpost or resource tower, and when it's a sensible marine who thinks that the commander may have overlooked or forgotten something.

I've commanded a game where in the rush to secure two hives I'd forgotten to research motion tracking and one of the veteran marines told me so. And another where I've had good rambos request for a gate in a strategic spot I didn't plan on getting.

In contrast I've been a marine in a game with a commander who beats down every contrary suggestion by a marine with a "STFU [insert name]!". A commander who, in a 5-player game, decided to go for turret farms instead of phase gates, who leaves the rear of the factories open, and who doesn't make a move for a hive until I switched over to the alien team and became a fade.

Listening to your commander is a golden rule for a marine. But listening to your solders (and being discerning about who you listen to) is also a golden rule for commanders. You can't see everything all the time from your command chair, and at the end of the day 6 brains can come up with more ideas than 1.

I'd agree. I've commanded a few games now. Of all the ones that I started off as the first commander (and ended), I think I've only lost 1.

Listening to your soldiers is good, because they can be skilled as well. Like one guy in sewer hive was like "cmdr I'd suggest we put 2 more turrets up, one over here (blinks flashlight) and one over here..." we already had the TF up, 3 turrets, but 2 more wouldn't hurt since we were all busy elsewhere, and they were good spots, it managed to keep sewer hive secure.

But then of course, you have to filter out the idiots "commander TF by this res node"... why.. so i can waste 100 resources? unless it's 2 nodes or something, just move on...

Also, shotgun requests. Unless you've been following my orders, you can stick with your LMG until you get some armor.

last night on hera i commanded a game. it was a hard battle for holoroom at the start, but in the end as their last hive fell, we had 240 resources. and yes, everything was upgraded, and everyone had their choice of toys..

It's important to listen to your troops, it makes them confident. when my commander neglects me, with ammo requests out in the field, or health, it makes me mad. You want me to run out there and backup holoroom? too bad, I'm going to load up to 250 bullets on lmg and 30 on pistol since you abandoned me there last time with no ammo first.

I think I changed all of the turrents into turrets. Thanks for correcting my spelling/grammar. One of the downsides of English not being my first language is the ability to spell.

One of the downsides of being arrogant is the assumption that everyone speaks the same language you do, fluently.

The interesting thing here is, if you order a group of 4 marines to do something, and they actually DO it, you can totally pwn public servers. Shoot a hive or seige it, build up resources or take over empty hive locations. Whatever. If you have your entire team doing it, it'll damn well work unless the aliens are REALLY crafty.

There is no bad plan, and almost no structure you can build that won't help in one way or another. Inteligent placement and build order can be important, of course, but not nearly so much as having obedient troops.

Anyway, here's my story:

I started a 1 vs 1 game today, and I was the marine.

Crap.

I usually play as alien, but in this case it was either be the marine or don't play, so oh well. Map was ns_nancy. I chat with the alien, and after gunning him down by hand the first time he tries to rush my base, I tell him "I guess I'll just try real hard and see if a lone marine can win." He goes "You can't. =)" I still wanted to try.

Well anyway, I figured it was all or nothing, so after turreting the base (And kicking myself about it, but I figured if I didn't, he would eat everything in the base while I was away on business...) I pinged to find the active hive. It was nameless. I dropped a tfactory in the red hallway north of the hive, in a corner, and then walked there to build it. I passed the undefended resource tower, and ignored it. Built it without incident. Killed myself in console to get back to the start faster and without incident, and said "darn" to my alien friend. Maybe he'd buy it.

Anyway, I respawn back at base, and there's a guy in my chair.

NS_Player.

**obscenity**.

Oh well. I'm relieved to see him anyway, because 2 marines are infintiely better than a lone commander.

I tell the guy "Good, a 2nd player. I made a tfactory near their first hive. I'll lead you to it. Upgrade it."

Miraculously, he says "ok."

Even more miraculously, when I get there, the upgrade was already completed, and he plunks down a seige turret. I was so sure he would start building regualr turrets, but he doesn't. I build it 90% and then ask for another one.

"5 more resources," he says. And I'm just blown away by this. You sure you're new? I want to ask, but I don't. We get 2 seiges going on that hive, and I run in to help with my lmg.

This gambit might have worked in a closed system. But unfortunately, me getting NS_Player on my team meant that the alien team now consisted of 3 people. Oh, the hive died. But they already had another one up, and Mess hall was filled to the brim with various chambers. About this time, NS_player started the old "I'm bored, I'm thinking about leaving" routine. More and more players were joining, and you guessed it, they're all demanding stuff and running around in random directions.

I tried for a little while, shooting skulks and getting eaten. Then I quit too.

The reason this was my worst experience as commander?

Because it started off so promisingly, but then it quickly degraded into what I can only describe as a typical public server match.

QUOTE (Wasted @ Dec 17 2002, 11:49 AM)

While it's not wise to second-guess you commander, it's not stupid to offer suggestions. As astute commander would know when it's a Marine Bob calling for an unnecessary siege outpost or resource tower, and when it's a sensible marine who thinks that the commander may have overlooked or forgotten something. I've commanded a game where in the rush to secure two hives I'd forgotten to research motion tracking and one of the veteran marines told me so. And another where I've had good rambos request for a gate in a strategic spot I didn't plan on getting. In contrast I've been a marine in a game with a commander who beats down every contrary suggestion by a marine with a "STFU [insert name]!". A commander who, in a 5-player game, decided to go for turret farms instead of phase gates, who leaves the rear of the factories open, and who doesn't make a move for a hive until I switched over to the alien team and became a fade. Listening to your commander is a golden rule for a marine. But listening to your solders (and being discerning about who you listen to) is also a golden rule for commanders. You can't see everything all the time from your command chair, and at the end of the day 6 brains can come up with more ideas than 1.

I was playing the map with the communication hive, other hive, and the waste handling hive. This guy I was playing with jumps into the command chair the next round and says if we stick to his orders exactly, we'll win this. Then he proceeds to drop an infantry portal against the wall behind his chair. With the slanted wall, we get stuck as we spawn. I point this out and he builds again against the wall, though it's the other wall beside his comm chair. I tell him that he needs to recycle and build away from the wall now. He builds one away finally. All this was wasting our time and then he leaves the game (I don't know why. It might have been some other reason) and I build it away from the wall. Too late now since the game is small and I am not good at commanding yet and we've wasted a lot of time already with the few IPs (it did seem to take a while to get those others up and he still didn't recycle the IPs when I asked him, so some guys got stuck spawning still).

So one thing I don't like is just someone rushing to command even if there is someone better on the server. They don't ask who is good, they just try to play in the chair. They drop their turret factories in the base and don't cover it from all sides, just covering the entrances.

Well that turned into things that a marine hates from the commander in the first ten minutes...

I'll get back to you as I get into the hot seat more often.