So, ns_hulk_b3 (download here) is an AWESOME map. I really want to include it in the map pack.

But theres a problem. The first two times i opened the map, it crashed, and i figured it was bugged and left it at that. Then people tell me to redownload it, so i do.

I get into the map, open the two airlock doors (as a marine you start in a dropship), and go about the map, loving every second of it. I decide it needs to be in the map pack.

But then, i alt-tab out, and open photoshop. I felt like starting to fix up the minimap right away, only to find that when i go back into the game and the map, it crashes every time i get to that 2nd airlock door.

Now, its a huge map. Maybe for whatever reason im hitting a memory ceiling by having photoshop and such a huge map open at the same time?

Can anyone try out the map and tell me how it is? I really really want to include it, but that'd be kinda hard to do if it keeps crashing for people.

I've checked my hdd's and they all have loads of room, also checked the download on my server/laptop and printserver with the same problem. I dunno which file is corrupted though

Ya might wanna PM Rendy, perhaps he will get an email from this board when PM-ed, as I haven't seen him around for a while...

Wait, whats that corrupted file message from?

The map works for me. As i said, i ran around it for a long time checking it out. But sometimes, when i start the map, it crashes after a few seconds.

I'm not sure, but winRAR just freaks out. I can extract all files though...

try google
http://www.fpsbanana.com/maps/download/17422

http://files.filefront.com/Natural+Selecti...;/fileinfo.html

It is indeed quite impressive work but i'm afraid it's one of those maps where the dev went too far into the project without testing the gameplay enough. I also crash randomly, especially near the MS, no idea why. With a quick test i also found an exploit; you can build into the closed door in the MS (unreachable, sinking structures). Invincible armslab, IP to go "outside" the map, etc Even with the source it'll probably be a pain in the butt to fix the map cause there's probably more exploitable areas.

A note about the crashing: it seemed to happen to me when i had cheats on. As in, i'd join marines, and i'd start hitting the door buttons before the round started. Thats when it crashed. If i waited for the game to start (with the beeping and such), and THEN open the doors, it seemed fine.

It did the same thing here (crashing when opening the second door), so i did try to go alien just to run around the map to check it out (awesome map btw! for reference i like complex maps such as shiva or machina... i'm always the only one to vote for those on a votemap instead of "popular" maps such as tanith/ec/veil, etc). As soon as i approached the MS as a skulk --> crash (without opening the door at all, beeping was over a long time ago). Third time as skulk again; no crash for a good 5 minutes, even in the MS. Weird. So i went rine (in the same "round"), opened both doors, still no crash, everything alright. Went into commander mode, built an ip/armory etc, checked for a possible exploit in the MS, found the one i mentioned then after 10 mins or so... crashed again...

I realize it's a shame with such a impressive map and i know my post about your mappack was kinda negative but i'm just trying to help there...

Does HL generate dump files like HL2 does? (*.MDMP)

If so, maybe someone with programming knowledge (Puzl?) could take a look to see where the error is.

Failing that, we need to narrow down the steps to reproduce this crash. Every time you crash try to write down exactly what order you did things in prior to the crash. We need information like:

Type of crash
Hard Lock is if the screen locks your PC and you have to reboot. Soft Lock is if the game freezes and you can ctrl+alt+del back to windows, or if it just crashes straight to windows, or to the HL console. If a soft lock, does the game close automatically, or is it shown as 'Not Responding' on the Program Manager window?

Error message
Is there a windows or console message that displays?

Location
Where exactly did it crash? Does it always occur when you're walking through a doorway? Open the console and have r_speeds set to "1". See if it always crashes in an area with higher r_speeds.

Actions performed
What were you doing when you crashed? Were you jumping? Shooting? Using a structure? Using the map? In Commander mode? Had you built any buildings? In what order? Remember what actions you performed to provoke a crash, and in which order. When you boot the map up again, try to do exactly the same things and see if it still causes a crash.

Time elapsed
Take a note of when the map finishes loading and when each round begins. Does the crash always occur after a set amount of round time? Does it always elapse after a certain amount of map time? Could it be set to an event (e.g. a sound, particle) not triggering properly after it has been reset to trigger again?

Okay, i just spent about 2 hours doing some tests. Got good news and some bad ones.

The good news is: i got it working without crashing for a good 50 mins. I fixed it by renaming some files. For some reason, the custom sounds in sound\ns_hulk had a .waw (?!) extension instead of .wav, renamed them. There is the same error even in the readme.txt (?!)... Modified the .res file accordingly, also renamed the entry "maps/ns_hulk.res" to "maps/ns_hulk_b3.res". There was also some weird problem with the sound "heart/hearth". I downloaded several versions of the map and it seems sometimes the sound has the filename "heart.wav", and sometimes the filename "hearth.wav", depending of the download. Weird. Probably someone had already tried to fix the map or something. I know it's confusing and it took me some time to got it working but now this "custom version" of the package doesn't seem to crash anymore.

Now onto the bad news: the map is buggy as hell so what i did is useless.

- Both weldables are working, but when welded, will produce some weird clipping problem. Nothing major, but still, it'll **** off some players.
- A lot of vents can be blocked with structures. There's no func_nobuild or whatever it's called. Again, nothing really major, but it smells fried skulks (elec tf, etc).
- The vent in ms is a ######.
- The worse, major problem(s)/exploit(s) is that there are at least 3 areas where you can build outside. The MS, Cargobay and "the ICU". Structures will sink but keep working. That means invincible structures. Kinda problematic for upgrade chambers which you cannot destroy, invincible obs, rines spawning outside the map, whatever. I was able to drop an invincible TF and 2 sieges outside the ICU and siege hyperdrive hive from there...

Conclusion: As much as i like the map a lot, even if it's huge and very complex, i don't think it's worth it to include it in the map pack as long as those things cannot be fixed. Unfortunately, people WILL exploit it.

@Crispy; Sorry for not answering your post directly, but instead of spending time describing the problem in details i decided to try to fix it right away. But yes, HL1 does create .mdmp files as well. And the type of crash was a "soft lock". Had to alt-tab, and close the process which was indeed "not responding".

God, i got the feeling my english is actually getting worse over time... Sorry bout that.

If the map now works without crashing, I might try a more concerted effort to contact Rendy. Incidentally, his UWE profile shows he last visited the site yesterday, so hopefully you've got his attention. His website link is dead, so PM or forum email is the only option.

If you are reading this, Rendy, we have fixed your map from crashing!!! Please help us fix the other problems so your map can be played by more NSers!

Even if we just get the source, it's worth fixing.

Hi nice to see somebody still interested in ns_ Hulk :-). I noticed this crashing problem with map after B3 release, I experienced it sometimes myslef, but I never found a solution to it. Dunno what is causing it, probably there is problem when players passing throught vis_portal or problem is that the texture limit is 6MB instead of standart 4MB. I really don't have any idea :-(

Regrettably i don't have source file anymore :-(

EDIT: Meh, read throught topic, and realized that crashing was caused by typos in file names. What a shame. But without source file I can't fix those exploits that U mentioned above. I left Hulk in Beta3 because I didn't managed to get somebody for betatesting :-(

Source is gone huh...

I dunno. If we can get the crashing fixed, it may still be salvageable. The sinking structures is from clip brushes, I found that out from Nexus myself. Apparently you cant put clips anywhere where structures can be placed. This is really annoying for any ground details or even wall details, as the tiniest amount of Clip will make the structures sink.

Drog, you're also a vet mapper and map reviewer. While some people may try to exploit these kinds of things, the majority of the playerbase wouldn't even know where to begin, especially since its all the comm's doing. There are also exploits like that in the current official maps (is that dark hidden room still in Storage D?), and a few rare exploits like that shouldn't be enough to let such an awesome map lose its playtime.

If you're actually fixed the crashing, though, good job man

Also came in at random in my map though. No clipbrushing is near the location (got it fixed btw in b5)

But then again you probably read about my endevours and annoyances with achio and the WEIRD clip bugs I had. I fixed it with a nobuild area for this particular hallway where the sinkbug was present without any reason (last minute fix, but it works )

Its a real shame the source is lost though, as the map really had some nice features and ideas plus the added feature of it looking hot as hell...

Rendy, do you maybe have an old source from any of the previous versions? It might be possible to fix it somehow. Have you checked your FTP space, email accounts, etc. for any possible old source data?

Nope :-( Only way is to decompile it and do a remake and that is matter of minimal month of work and i thnik this mappack is aimed to be released as soon as possible.

Maybe we can just add a download link in the readme to a version of the map that fixes the crashes and has an improved minimap, with an explanation of why it wasn't actually included in the mappack?

I did some more tinkering, because I basically wanted to decide whether or not to include Hulk.

I think I have fully solved the crash. Drog, you were right about the incorrect filenames, but it was still crashing for me in MS all the time. It was all happening at that second door.

If you check the four custom sounds in the hulk folder, there are three that are around 10kb. Then there's one thats 120kb. Thats the door sound. I don't know if it had problems being encoded, or if its just a bad spot for such a large sound, (since theres all the sounds from the button and the first door too), but i removed the sound and it hasn't crashed since.


With the crash solved, i've taken a look at the other issues. While they'd be on the buglist if we had a source file, without one, I can't see them being bad enough to hold back its inclusion in the pack. Its such an awesome map, that a sinkspot here or there won't hold it back. Also, in MS, you would need some serious teamwork to build anything in time before it sinks (you cant see what you're building since its through a wall and it goes out of range quickly), and in the ICU, if you were really trying hard and spent awhile doing it, you'd be able to get max two structures outside. But, just like going outside in Nancy, admins would take action against this.

I think a much more likely result would be that these glitches would almost never be used. Mappers like us try to break these maps, but it even took me awhile to figure out the ICU one. As for the vents, well, a lot of vents can be blocked by structures in other maps as well. But noone does it because (a) its not worth it and (b) you need a marine in there to build it.

The vent in MS is kinda crazy for biling gorges, true, but comms can build pretty far away from it if they want. Even under it or in either of the hallways behind the CC.

I couldn't reproduce these clip issues with the weldables you mentioned. Don't know what i did wrong... i just welded it then ran through it back and forth a dozen times as both marine and skulk. Nothing? Same thing with the one in MS.

But anyways, these are all minor bugs anyways. The map is fantastic and I'm glad to have now decided to keep it in the pack.

That is nice to hear from you. Thank you. I will try to start remake project after my exams will be finished, but I can't promise it for 100%

Hmm. If you're going to plan a remake project, if anything, do it for Source. As in decompile it, port the brushwork to Source, and then go about fixing it up. It would be the same amount of work but it would be far more useful. The current Hulk really doesn't have nearly enough problems to warrant a full remake, whereas we'd all love it for NS2.

Again, the only real issues with the version im releasing:

-There is a missing sound file, which shows up in the console. It was causing a crash, but in-game, you don't notice its missing.
-A few sinking structures. These are mostly in areas where its done on purpose, and would need some serious teamwork to do well. It won't be a big issue at all.
-Some small gameplay considerations. That vent in MS could be pretty crazy for biling, and I personally find the weldables to be WAY too long.

Overall, thats not a serious buglist at all. If you want to remake it, give us a purty source version

Them weldables could be fixed using ripents if this is a big problem, same goes for all other entities like the missing sound file. It could even be removed using ripent I think. Also for models that use a path to a file (the path can be changes)

It's just a little bit fiddly and search intensive.

I've never actually used ripent. Can anyone guide me to a straightforward tutorial?

I hope this helps for you http://www.chatbear.com/unity2/9/887,10335...,3905?v=flatold

As far as I'm aware ripent just rips all the entities out so you can modify them and just add them in to the map without others needing to download a new version. Like how UK2 and etc. get their ads in maps on their serves with you just downloading a 1kb image file for it and nothing else.

If you use batch compiler it is actually quite easy.

Just deselect all the other compile processes and only select RipEnts.

After this go and select you bsp file and check the Export checkbox to export all the point based entities to a text file and hit run. Go and search for func_weldable for example in the generated text file.

Modify it's values in the text file (backup your original BSP! ) After this go and use the import checkbox instead and hit run.

After all this is done, the entity you modified/removed/relocated/added has been incorperated into the bsp.

I used this on my achio ns1.04 version. The info_player_starts were about 150 grid units lower then when using using the newer fgd's. So I simply changed all of their z-values, because I didn't feel like recompiling just for this small bug

Thanks for all the tips!

JazzX was awesome enough to handle this for me. Once we got Rendy's permission, he removed the buggy sound link, lowered the weldables to 7 seconds apiece (much more reasonable ), and fixed the max/min values so the minimap fits the screen a lot better. I fixed it up again with the new values, and heres the result:



Gonna be good for the Pack!

Oh sexy, awesome work StixNStonz