TWG XV Postgame

Contents:
1. Result
2. Awards
3. Players
4. TWG XVI Host Signups
5. My Thoughts
6. Extra

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1. Result

Congrats to the wolves for their victory! One lynch either way would've decided the game, but the wolves pulled it off well!

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2. Awards

This game's MVP is Eternaly_Lost, who, faking seer, got both Theslan and Comprox lynched, sealing the game.

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3. Players

Theslan - Human (Lynched Day Four)
Eternaly_Lost - Wolf (Wolfed Night Four)
Thansal - Wolf (Survived)
Comprox - Graeae (even) (Instalynched Day Six)
Faskalia - Human (Lynched Day Three)
TheFeniX - Human (Wolfed Night Seven)
tjosan - Human (Lynched Day Two)
Soul_Rider - Psychic (Wolfed Night One)
im_lost - Human (Wolfed Night Two)
Isamil - Guardian (Wolfed Night Five)
Nightstalker - Wolf (Lynched Day Five)
semipsychotic - Graeae (odd) (Wolfed Night Six)
Xentor - Human (Did not survive)
the_x5 - Human (Lynched Day One)
Ana - Wolf (Survived)
PlanetKiller - Human (Did not survive)

Night One:
Wolves kill Soul_Rider
semipsychotic seers Planetkiller
Isamil guards Comprox

Day One:
the_x5 gets lynched (random between Ana, Isamil, the_x5)

Night Two:
Wolves kill im_lost
Comprox seers im_lost
Isamil guards Nightstalker

Day Two:
tjosan gets lynched

Night Three:
Wolves kill Xentor
semipsychotic seers TheFeniX
Isamil guards Xentor (random)

Day Three:
Faskalia gets lynched

Night Four:
Wolves kill Eternaly_Lost
Comprox seers Eternaly_Lost
Isamil guards Nightstalker (random)

Day Four:
Theslan gets instalynched

Night Five:
Wolves kill Isamil
semipsychotic seers Nightstalker
Isamil guards Xentor

Day Five:
Nightstalker gets instalynched

Night Six:
Wolves kill semipsychotic
Comprox seers Xentor

Day Six:
Comprox gets instalynched.

Night Seven:
Wolves kill TheFeniX
Wolves win.

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4. TWG XVI Host Signups

Now accepting signups either via PM or e-mail at EMPDemon at Gmail dot com.

Preliminary day for the election thread is Sunday, August 19th, but I have no issues with extending it if people need more time.

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5. My Thoughts

Definitely a close game, I'd say the Graeae made things a lot closer than a single seer would have been. Despite the two networks being (barely) linked, Eternaly_Lost still managed to throw people off slightly by killing himself off once he got seered, naming two others as possible wolves...

Anyway, day-by day...

Night One: Wolves kill Soul_Rider, the psychic. I'm surprised by that one, honestly.

Day One: It's only now that E_Lost points out that three of the wolves here are the same three as last game. Oops. random.org doesn't seem to be very random this time. Of course, he disputes my claim that it WAS random.org, saying that "when we kill im_lost tomorrow as the guardian"...

Obviously, that doesn't happen.

In any case, a three-way vote ensues and the AFK the_x5 gets killed off, though the wolf Ana or the guardian Isamil were just as likely to be finished...

Night Two: Comprox seers im_lost, who promptly gets eaten. Ouch.

Day Two: tjosan's under suspicion here because of his vote-jumping the previous day. Looks like Isamil's gonna die... then it kinda gets flipped around.

Night Three: semi seers FeniX. Wolves attack Xentor but get blocked by an AFK Isamil, haha.

Day Three: Faskalia gets himself lynched for his vote near the end of the previous day.

Night Four: Comprox finds E_Lost... who promptly wolfs himself, causing the humans to flinch in confusion.

Day Four: E_Lost gets his revenge by getting Theslan lynched. General consensus is that one or the other is a wolf.

Night Five: semipsychotic finds Nightstalker, and wolves finally kill off the guardian.

Day Five: Nightstalker gets lynched, no biggie.

Night Six: Comprox checks Xentor, and the wolves take out the odd seer, semi.

Day Six: I honestly didn't think that would happen, I expected a lynching of Ana, or Thansal, but all of a sudden the human players (aided by the wolves, of course) start turning on Comprox. Why? Because E_Lost named him as a wolf, and Fenix revealed him as the seer, yet he's not dead. Oops?

Night Seven: Wolves kill someone, thereby winning. Might as well end the night early, though I did run it by im_lost to see if it'd be allowed.

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6. Extra

The self-destruct passcode for the base was "Theta-Upsilon-Upsilon-Gamma-One-Five". Let's change that to "TUUG15". Then, let's replace two u's with a w, and we get TWG15. And, of course, 15 = XV in roman numerals, so TWG XV. Ta-da!

Now, there were references to other TWGs in this TWG. Some of you probably noticed the obvious reference to TWG XI via im_lost and Ana's characters.

What you may not have known is that each character was, in some way, related to a TWG. In most cases, wolves, hence the game name "Redemption".

Let's go through this in order of deaths, so that I can elaborate on those characters who didn't get much screen time... maybe.

Soul_Rider (TWG X) - I really didn't manage to do anything with this, but him playing cards with tjosan, the weresnake, and Thansal, the werewolf, was a bit of a clue - He's based off the werewolves from TWG X. Obviously, I wasn't able to do much with him, and I completely forgot about this since the Stalker never used his werewolf form like it used tjosan's weresnake form. Ah well.

the_x5 (TWG VIII) - One of the wolves in VIII was sucked into space. However, since this was a first day lynch, nobody knew that Sky, the wolf in question, was a wolf! Hence, I decided to silently stick the_x5 in there, though he didn't last too long.

im_lost (TWG XI) - Exact same wolf as in XI, exact same death, by fire. He obviously knew Ana, who was another wolf during that game. Not much else to say here.

tjosan (TWG IX) - Now, this weresnake might confuse some people; there were no weresnakes in IX, after all! However, my idea from this one came from the very last wolf, Nurot, who apparently had the idea to control the basilisk to make money. Helllllo! An idea is born! After all, someone needs to test the thing to see if it works. In fact, it's not too hard to create a cause of death from that...

Faskalia (TWG XII) - An uncompleted story hindered me here, however, it's not too hard to imagine that the Portal of [incomprehensible] would have been sought after by those wishing to abuse its power. Regarding their robes, I imagined Faskalia (white robes, black trimming, in case you don't remember) to have more defensive magic, while Planetkiller (black robes, white trimming), to have mastered offensive magic. Of course, I never really managed to strike that kind of difference between the two. Oh well.

Eternaly_Lost (TWG VII) - 'Tis another Gorge Eater. Obviously, the Gorge Eater's fight against the gorges was cut short at the end of VII, but obviously, he can take it out easily against Xentor, the skulk, who could become a gorge at a minute's notice and with 10 resources... hehe... Of course, that's my second time using material from TWG VII. Hope Petco isn't too annoyed at me for it. >.>

Theslan (TWG VI) - Oh, this didn't help too much. The problem with putting super-awesome wizards and aliens and werethings in, is that people like Theslan's character, an ordinary human with the same story as his character in VI, get very little action in comparison. Still, taking out the Stalker is no small feat.

Isamil (TWG IX) - Same character as in TWG IX, and despite being part of the mafia versus the werewolf affinity of tjosan, the two characters seem to get along.

Nightstalker (TWG III) - One of the earlier TWGs, this one was a mystery to actually figure out. The only thing I could really gain from the story (though possibly due to a lack of time, I expected more time to research characters) was the "creatures" who were humans, affected by the "dark core" of their island. Needless to say, my lack of information caused me to be wary of actually doing too much. No lines, maybe, but he did play a pretty big role in the action, not only holding one of the weres at bay, but also sending the Stalker skyward. Whee!

semipsychotic (TWG VI) - This one was the only non-wolf that I was thinking of. However, it's close enough, as I expected semi to replace the psycho from that game... which is why he attacked Nightstalker just before his own death. Of course, the fact does remain that again, with the two wizards, two aliens, three were-creatures, he didn't see much action.

Comprox (TWG II) - Yeah, I had no clue where I was going with this one. I intended Comprox to be his character from II, but I never really got around to doing anything special. Handguns don't really do much, although it's more than the two pirates can say...

TheFeniX (TWG IV) - The last of the "official" deaths, I intended this character to replace the final wolf killed in IV, from his escape pod colliding with his own ship. Ouch. The fact that he never used his plasma rifle is evident, though I did manage to show off his shapeshifting skills on the bridge.

Planetkiller (TWG XII) - For the most part, see Faskalia. <_<

Xentor (TWG VIII) - The second-last wolf to die in VIII from a forced xenocide. I actually was hoping for him to die just before/after E_Lost so I could take them both out at once, or have him wolfed before the Stalker got killed. That way, when the Stalker tried to access his memories of dying the first time - Kaboom!

Thansal (TWG I) - Generic werewolf based off the very first TWG. Not much to say about this. "Werewolf Overlord" does have a nice ring to it though.

Ana (TWG XI) - Ana didn't actually die this game, but if she did, I was definitely going to arrange a falling death, how she died in XI. However, between her (character's) tendency to shout her spell names (definitely not required, as neither Faskalia nor Planetkiller do so) and the sword she used against Isamil and TheFeniX (in-story, again) is meant to fill a hole that is: Which wolf killed Zor2 back in XI?

Games which didn't make the cut:

TWG V - Fish. Honestly, fish? I don't think I could do much with that. I did take the concept of the thing, however, and got the Stalker out of it. Good story, characters would literally be eaten alive here, though, so no go.

TWG XIII - Alas, while this might've been nice, not only was the story not complete, but there were no wolf deaths to begin with. Sorry E_Lost.

TWG XIV - As Theslan so eloquently sub-titled his postgame thread: "What mystery? WHAT mystery?" Unfinished story didn't help much, but if the two pirates and the spy didn't get much screentime, it's hard to imagine how much a circus magician, a blind costume designer (uhm...), and a strong man would get.

Amazing job, wolves. I admit, when I first came back to my computer and saw people talking about a wolf win, I thought it was PK and Fenix... I never even suspected you guys.

This shows how the game was meant to be played. The job of the wolves is to divide the humans. Keep us fighting each other while you guys just drop us one by one.

I think E_Lost should be given a rank for this one, despite dying, cause the sacrifice play worked beautifully, and though I wasn't part of the human network, I think that was probably the turning point.

Good game, guys. Great game.

Ninja edit (Maybe): Ok, people are saying all the wolves get rank for this. Good

So, I will post up a bit of info:
1) no, we didn't have a wolf forum.
I will ntoe that all 4 wolves were the wolf suspects from last game.

We killed soul just to get back at him for last game tbh. (take that as a compliment) I honestly didn't know about him requesting seers to check him.

Day 1 was jsut us dancing around, tryign to not tie each other together, and watchign the chaos rise.

Night 2 we offed im_lost for he was 100% NOT a suspect. I, again, didn't know about the vote tallies.

Day 2, watch the chaos. I pushed for tjo to die (but not to hard) simply b/c it would look human.

Night 3 we aimed at Xen b/c WHY WOULD ANY ONE GUARD HIM! (grumble, random.org)

Day 3, let chaos reign.

Night 4, I have been in contact with Fenix all game, he let me in on the fact that he was in the network and that he had gotten in contact with the Even seer who fingered ELost. I sent of a quick forum PM to EMPDemon letting him know he was gona get lynched that day (because I am an idiot). Then sent it to ELost. Elost pulled all of the strings on getting us to kill him etc etc.

PM from ELost:


We were going to Kill comprox.

Day 4, well, they are gona kill Theslan, fine by me!

At this point I knew we had lost. I knew:
PKer Semi, and Fenix were networked.
Comp was the even seer
Xen was networked with the guardian and no one said he was dead, so it had to be Isamil.
Semi has to be the odd seer b/c fenix isn't and PKer is the one talking (security through obscurity doesn't work )
we only need 1 more human lynch, and no way we are gona get it.

Night 5, Kill the guardian, starting to just aim for 100% role death

Day 5, They targeted NSer, had to go along with it, just pray they target Xen the next day.

Night 6: Kill semi so he can't seer night 7. Find out that Xen was checked and KNOW we were screwed. I talked to fenix a few times and 100% expected ana to be targeted.

Day 6: ummm, maniacal giggling as they target Comprox? If this had been face to face you would have all lynched me in a heart beet for my ###### eating grin alone





So, my thoughts on the game:
It was fun.
The half seers are a great addition.
If the humans had not created so much chaos them selves we would have probably pulled a fake seer early on, but I just didn't think it was worth the risk tbh.

/me donces

Great wolf play. My congrats mainly go to Thansal.

The first couple of days stunk for us. I had wondered if Soul_Rider was the psychic due to him calling for both seers and to be guarded. That would have made a 4-man all-role network over two nights. Guess I was right (fat lot of good it did).

There was just too much flak being kicked up to see clearly the first few days. By the time I was seered and brought into the network, I was pretty sure we hadn't killed a single wolf.

The E_Lost deal was a great plan, but we suspected it was a ploy due to why would the wolves bother wolfing E_Lost? Also, he was our highest suspect. And Comprox contacted me before this. Basically, what really screwed it for us was that I had Comprox Seer E_Lost, and E_Lost called out Comprox. The wolves didn't know Comprox was the seer, so it was really just luck and random picking.

As I told Planetkiller during the course of our last night talk: there was a lot of luck involved this game. Just (for once, to hear people talk) it was all going for the wolves. I mean, they had a good plan to start with, and we just kept getting handicapped by inactives, insane voters, and end-day shenanigans. It's like the human team was working to tear itself apart.

I can't believe I wasn't guarded either of the first two nights. I figured I would die night 2, which is why I posted the link to the voting chart right before the night ended. Eventually I figured I was probably guarded night 1, and that's why I wasn't guarded night 2, but that didn't happen. Oh well.

My thoughts on the game...

Good job Thansal. I hardly had the chance to suspect you, though after you didn't get killed from the day voting spreadsheet, I had an inking, but not enough to distrust you.

Day 1:
I got network with TheFenix and Eternaly_lost. Not too much there, talked to Thansal a bit.

Day 2:
Suspected E_lost at this point... yadda yadda, I'll write more here.

What annoyed me was my instalynch. At this point, I knew that Comprox was even seer from TheFenix's PM, and I trust TheFenix (having nobody else to trust). The second person I trust was... Ana. Well done, she made me think she was 100% human (she didn't do anything I see that gave me any inking she was a wolf).

I really wanted to come back and give out information, but I was lynched an hour before I could come back. Well done wolves, for that wolfing really took me out.

BTW, that's some werid rolls. E_lost, Ana AND Thansal were wolves again? That's crazy.

I will put in a few more things:

I would like to know why Fas made his last min vote switch.

I would like to know if TJO had any reasoning to his actions.

Thought dump:

Day 1 was chaotic, as everyone has already alluded to. Planetkiller's suggestion seemed like a good idea (and still does), so when I scanned him that night (randomly), we went on to form numerous different theories based on the information. My favorite was Xen/Thes/Than/Fenix for the wolf team, constructed from gut feeling, vote "analysis," and strangely supported and yet discredited by the initial reactions to PK's suggestion (look at the two votes immediately following it!). Planetkiller came much closer. Hopefully, he won't mind me posting this (yell at me if you do):

(1:33:03 PM) Planetkiller: well, the most obvious net I can find is ELost, Thansal and Faskalia
(1:33:23 PM) Planetkiller: but they would only make sense if Isamil is human

A .75 batting average is incredibly good for day 2. This is also a convenient time to mention that Planetkiller is the Best Ally Evar.

Day 2 was also interesting. Planetkiller and I were lucky that we both were in positions that we could save ourselves by switching our own votes rather than having to save each other. I think our moves were a good balance of quiet/loud for the day, even if they were partly luck.

Night 3 I scanned Fenix and thought things were going really well (they pretty much were). He claimed to have another network somewhere back there, which he understandably insulated us from. I didn't know that he was going to play the next day openly. His open call for the seer and guardian caught me off-guard, though it was a perfectly sound and well-executed move.

From Day 4 on, the events are best detailed in the IRC mini-party right after the topic change. Throughout all of this, I was getting confident in our ability to win the game, but I figured my quiet play was going to get me killed before the end. I had no idea, however, that Thansal had outright pegged me as the seer.

Planetkiller and Fenix, many thanks for being my buddies for that game. You guys sure made my life a lot easier (and probably longer).

I was thinking something as this game was progressing. I think the host should put the final vote count for each day in the end-of-day post, so it's there for easy reference to follow. I often find myself wanting to know what the final vote count was, but the only way to do it is to find the last vote tally and then read the next several posts. If others agree with this, then post here so I can add it to the stickied thread.

Edit: This mostly matters when it's two days later and you're trying to figure out what people have done.

I honestly don't see a problem with doing so, I remember during Day Two that I was confused by all the last-minute changes that I actually made a vote table of my own just to make sure.

We lost due to a combination of brilliant play by the wolves, and awesomely bad luck.

Psychic got himself wolfed straight off
x5 inactive
tjosan randomly throwing off the game
Faskalia making out like a wolf
Comprox having seered im_lost, only for him to die
Isamil never trusted us enough to tell us personally he was the guardian
Ana barely talked except to vote, which gave us no data on her
Without the Graeae system, we would have won, so I guess it does balance things.

We were floating around in the dark though for so much of the game, and the least likely possibility for the wolf team was actually true, so fair play to them for wolfing their own.

Also, YET AGAIN I should have stuck with my initial instinct, and just gone at the people I suspected at the beginning. It's been around 75% accurate every time so far. Damnit.

Well considering all my votes day one was either to keep the status quo of the three-four way vote system brought up by Planetkiller, or switching between players without any votes, I don't see the big fuss.

You started off with a completely random voting system (which you explained to a few people as random, but trying to provoke a response), then switched to a "Hey guys, let's stick to the original plan." The problem is, one guy putting one vote on a wolf isn't going to provoke a response when they know one of two things are going to happen:
A. you'll change your vote again
B. people will not vote with you for fear of you changing your vote again.

You may have known you were human and had a good plan, but from our perspective, it was jacking everything up. It wasn't inherently wolfish, but it just wasn't helping us.

Somewhere along the lines, someone was saying that voting for inactives is a bad idea. THIS is why we vote out inactive people, short of having actual suspects.

I am the person that argues both sides of the inactive thing, however I will point out that I am referring to inactive, not people that are simply not posting much.

From what I have seen:
People that are Inactive (not doing ANYTHING) are generally humans, and thus lynching them is bad for us.
HOWEVER!
Killing off inactive makes sure that people who actually are playing the game don't get shafted.

On the other hand, people that are laying low are often roles (wolf or human). Killing Ana on that idea would have been a perfectly sound one (unless she was a human role).

I must say this game was the most annoying for me. I knew E_lost was a wolf and I knew who the humans were, just no one believed me. Even on the last day I listed who I knew was human (me, Fenix, PK and Xentor). Sadly on the last day my vote against Fenix was just in anger for him getting everyone to kill me

Good job to the wolves messing around with the other guys enough. I kept telling Fenix and PK in private that e_lost had pulled off a textbook wolf sacrafice but they just dragged me along until they killed me in the end. And PK, like I said just before you guys lynched me "I told you so"

You and soul_rider weren't guarded because I figured the wolves would assume that you were.(being the obvious targets)

I still feel like a ###### for lynching you. But PKer and I hammered this out over and over again. It basically came down to having no other suspects. And at that point, we thought we had one more day (which we didn't) and the fact that you would be unable to seer again kind of sealed the deal. Seering Xentor gave us nothing as even if you were a wolf, you'd basically HAVE to say he was human. But even then, having you seer Ana or Thansal wouldn't have given us much either because you had every incentive to call them wolves.

Oh and as for it being annoying: I fully agree. Trying to get Soul_Rider and Isamil onboard to kill E_Lost day 1 last game (when I knew he was a wolf) and failing was so frustrating. The only thing good that came of it was me having Thansal pretty much pegged as we was not on the ball like he was this game.

Live and learn. This is what happens when a newer player gets thrust into the spotlight against his will. I'd like to think I did ok, but there was just too much going on for PKer and I to come through.

Literally ANY possible wolf combination just wasn't adding up. There are even some large holes in the REAL wolf network. As I said, PKer and I talked at length about how it seemed everything was working against us. That said, even with my limited experience, I found this game rather balanced and fair. I just wonder how things would have gone without wasting time on X5, Tjosan, and Isamil/Faskalia. But, that's not fair as it's part of the game.

Guardian: "And since the wolves KNOW they were the obvious targets, I can CLEARLY not choose the target in front of you! But then, the wolves KNOW I would know that, and would choose them anyway, so I can CLEARLY not choose the target in front of me!"

Wolf: "You're trying to make me give something away. It won't work..."

Guardian: "It HAS worked! You've told me everything! The answer is simple! The wolves will guard-- Wait, look over there!"

Wolf: "What, I don't see anything?"

Guardian: "Oh, must have been a fake seer... *laughs*..."

Wolf: "What's so funny?"

Guardian: "I'll tell ya later. First, let's do this. You wolf your target, and I'll guard mine."

*the night passes*

Wolf: "You guessed wrong..."

Guardian: "HA! You only THINK I guessed wrong! I switched targets when your back was turned! I can't believe you fell victim to one of the classic blunders! The most well known, of course, is never get involved in a land war in Asia... But only SECOND to that, is NEVER get involved with a Guardian when DEATH is on the line! HA HA HA HA HA HA HA-- *urk* *dies*



Sorry... Couldn't resist.

Close, but no cylindrical smoking object.


I fail it also.

If EMPDemon reads this any time soon, can you post the PM i sent to you (I forgot to save sent messages)...

I guessed at 2 wolves during the night I got wolved and next day, got 1 right at least....

Edit..

Forgot to say, if you play a game with ana and she is semi inactive, she is probably a wolf...

(She can't lie so she keeps quiet)

And e_lost, you've given yourself away to me on night 1 for 2 games in a row now, and this time it took even less time than the first game..

So if Soul dies ELost is a wolf!

(keeps this in mind for future games when he is a wolf and ELost is not)

This one?

Honestly, I really WAS busy most of the time except near the end. I only started getting really active when my teammates told me I was most likely going to be lynched unless some RARE thing happened such as a human being voted for. Short of a miracle, I lived to the end. But really, it was all thanks to Thansal, Eternaly_Lost, and Nightstalker's help. =x Though, im_lost DID knock some sense into people as they were trying to lynch me due to my colors in irc.. Thank you for saving me over that. xD

And lol @ the fact that I was a wolf 4 out of 5 games, and also that I was the seer the other game. Though, something tells me I'll be killed early on in the next game due to the fact that I've been a wolf so much.. Such is life~

Anyway, good job everyone! You all put up a great fight!

I tend to treat the guardian role as a "make sure the people that are doing some good don't die" role. I would rather waste my time guarding people that the wolves know they can't kill anyway over guarding people that they would expect to have no problem killing and having someone important die. Then again, Xentor summed it up nicely.

Completely unrelated, I'll be updating the stickied thread later today when I get home with the stuff from my previous post.

I'll like to note that Ana wasn't inactive as much as you guys thought.

I've contacted her around Day 2 and we've been talking a lot. Unfortunately, that made me assume she was human, because I saw nothing she's done to make me suspicious.

I do have to agree that the game is pretty balance with this. However, there was just so much noise done by the humans (TJO, Faskalia's freak-out, last minute voting), that at the end it really did hurt the humans. Not to mention that the humans were ready to vote off anyone that just look at them funny or post as if they were confused of what's going on.

I forgot, I figured I would toss this out:
http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pK3...L58dGrfHvN46oaw

That is the voting spreadsheet that im_lost started and I continued (I actually went through and took out the extra lines from day 1, but I CBA to colour it as well, sorry)

Last day for host submissions, everyone. If you're working on an idea but need more time to finish it up, feel free to send me a PM about it!