Saturn Beta 4









A larger 1024 x 768 version of each picture is available by clicking on it.

Ooooh! That looks nice.

Please tell me though that this map has high entropy and good places for the aliens to take cover or wallwalk, so few of the NS maps have friendy architecture for the wallwalking skulks.

~edit~

See if you can get Merkaba to help you create those cool macro models for something a lot nicer than a basic ol' skybox.

Look really nice
Screen 3 is a bit empty, but overall is really nice.

That exterior view is very nice. I like the concept although it does look a little bit bare.

I think the main reason it looks bare is because a lot of the details are too uniform. Some suggestions to make things less uniform.
- In shot 2, you have light strips down the length of the corridor, turn some of the lights off on the strip to make interesting dark spots and break up the uniformity.
- Also in shot two, the wall looks very uniform with the flat wall and then divider then more flat wall. Try placing some machinery or pipes or computers or something in some of the nooks created between the two dividers. It'll break up the room and make it more interesting.
- Shot 3 is also pretty uniform looking. Never be afraid to throw some random computer displays on the wall, or cut a whole out of the wall and throw some pipes and a red light in there. The trick is that you don't want everything to look uniform. Go through and break up the uniformity.

i just noticed how in shot 3 you pretty much 'bump mapped' the walls to fit the texture. Very nice, and im sure it would look much better in-game when the 3d would actually be noticeable, and i know it mustve taken a good while to map that out. I just hope that you've clipped those, the outside of the station as well

Oh yeah! Helps quite a lot. Wonder what the r_speeds are like in there D:

very cool hmmm. Really curved outside place ahhh, will you be able to see there?

remind 2001 a space odissey.

K, I’ll mash together some replies here, but if I miss something, I’ll follow up with more.

A model of the moon would be easy to make, but challenging to set up in the map because there are quite a few windows throughout it. It would require lots of space, and it would look odd if you can see the model from some windows and not others. Asteroid models would be cool, but might look odd if there isn't a matching moon model. Also, the additional epoly would have to be taken into consideration. I'll probably release the first version without models, and think about that a bit more.

The map has a fair amount of vents and hiding spots, but I didn't want to make it too complex and hard to learn. Therefore, I placed them where I thought it would make sense strategically (ie a vent exit located where a lerk or gorge can use it to defend an important location, or where a skulk can use it to flank) but held back a bit on how many I added. However, I can always revise it based on player feedback later on.

Also, balance must be taken into consideration when adding vents and shortcuts. The following image will help illustrate my thought process with regards to map layout:



At the core of the map, there are two resource nodes. To make it balanced, I wanted the path from each hive and marine start to those nodes to be roughly the same distance. It's not exact, of course, but within reason to prevent one team from starting with an obvious advantage.

At the same time, I want to make sure that the distance between each of the hives and marine start is roughly the same, yet longer than the distance to double. As you can see, the yellow path from Marine Start to Cargo is longer than the other paths, but I think that stopping off to cap the two nodes along the way compensates for that.

Finally, I want to make sure that the remaining resource towers are evenly distributed throughout the map. As you can see, the hives and marine start are on the straight sides of an octagon while the remaining resource towers are roughly in the middle of the angled sides between the hives and marine start. They are also in enclosed areas so that they cannot be destroyed from a distance. Hopefully, this will prevent one team from getting an unfair resource advantage.

If I add more vents simply to give more options without taking the above into consideration, it would be to the detriment of balance. I think the octagon shape of the map lends itself well to these restrictions.

I've taken some additional shots of waste halls (2nd picture in the original post) to expand the view and explain it a little better:

In this first picture, you can see the resource tower in Waste and, through the doorway, a bit of Waste hive:



The vent in the previous picture leads to an opening under the catwalk that is on the right-hand side of the original pic, which I circled in red. The vent continues around the corner to the hall on the left side, and aliens can jump up from the sides of the catwalks:



In this next picture, you can see a vent opening, under a pipe, inside waste hive that is circled in red:



That leads to the area in this next picture, which is above the hall on the left-hand side in the picture from the original post, and the grate is a func_illusion so that lerks can spore/umbra through it and use it as a defensive position:



The other vent on the right-hand side of the grate in the previous picture leads to this exit, and aliens can thus pass through that defensive position and carry on to another location:



Above the pipes, there is a catwalk that jetpacks can use to sneak up a pg, or aliens can use as a defensive position:



This next picture shows where I'm considering adding a vent that would also allow aliens to get above the grate on the right-hand side of the picture in the original post. I hesitated because it would just lead to a dead end, but now I'm thinking of adding a vent from there that will lead to the catwalk above the pipes, and thus have better flow while adding another defensive position:



These final two shots give a better view of what each end looks like. In the first picture, you can see that the walls actually curve out a bit. It's a good point that using one texture over a long hallway without details to break it up should be avoided, but as you can see in both pics, the area on each end is small, which wasn't really visible from the original pic:




Making some of the lights so that they're turned off is a good idea, and I do that in other areas of the map, but I kinda like the brightness in waste halls because it's deceptive. To a marine, a bright area gives more of a sense of security, yet aliens can attack from just about every angle of those halls.

To be continued....

The green light in the 3rd pic of my first post is an effect I was shooting for. I wanted the walls to glow a bit while having the white lights to help break it up. Also, there is a cutaway with a vent that isn't really visible in the shot from the original post. Here's another pic, which I probably should have included in my first post, but chose not to in favor of more variety (larger version is available by clicking):



Aside from helping to break things up, the vent is also useful for flanking marines that may be waiting for aliens to run through the hallway -- keeping game play in mind.

Yes, the green hall and the exterior are completely clipped.

I also used hint brushes in the green hall to prevent brush fragmentation, and one brush for each corner piece instead of mitering to help prevent sticky corners. I know that Cagey modified the compile tools to help fix this problem, but I'm old school and would rather use mapping techniques to solve the problem than new code that may introduce new bugs.

I'm sure I don't have to tell anyone that maps how challenging it is to stay within the limits of HL compile tools. Therefore, one has to set priorities with regards to editing. Having broad views of the exterior was one of my priorities from the beginning because I wanted players to have the sense that they are on a space station by being able to see how their location relates to the rest of it. In addition to that, I like using curves. Curves just make things look better. They look good on cars, guitars, and… maps. You thought my mind was somewhere else didn’t you?

Anyways, this limits the amount of resources remaining for things that jut from the walls or the ceiling, but I don't view that entirely as a negative. For example, say you're a fade that's being chased by marines and you're trying to get to a safe spot quickly so you can heal, but instead you get killed because you get stuck on some detail sticking out of the wall or ceiling. That's frustrating, and should also be taken into consideration. One should not only think of how details will make the map look good, but also how players will interact with it.

Along with views of the exterior, it also makes sense to set boundaries that the layout must fit within as illustrated in this picture:



It'd be a bit odd to have a square layout for a map that's supposed to be in the shape of Saturn. Therefore, I started with the basic shape as a boundary to work within, and removed what I didn't need.

To be continued….

I use noclip to take pics without the hud, and stumbled across the view in that first pic by accident. It's a little hard to fit the entire view within a window frame from one angle so I took a couple pics from each of the following locations at different angles. These pictures are from playable areas:

Here's the view from Communications, which is a room with a resource node that's close to Marine Start:





And here are a couple pics taken from one of the bridges that connect to the core. In fact, it's from the bridge that's visible in the picture above, but looking out a window on the opposite wall:





You can even wave to people at East Core Bridge from Communications and vice versa.

Neat-o!

From the screenshots it looks great. I wonder how it plays.

Great to see there are several mappers still working on ns_maps. And hopefully an official map pack could help popularize them.

Wow, this map really has some potential. Have you mapped before?

I love the integration of the full-station concept visuals with the gameplay. I agree with whoever mentioned it though, that the outside needs a bit more pizazz. A few decals, some small towers coming out (so like one long skinny brush with a light at the tip), maybe an extra couple brushes that just 'fancy up' the outside, could really help.

When will a playable beta be ready? I'd suggest using the list of reviewers that we compiled a little while ago. PM any or all of them, including myself. We'll give you a run-through of your map and a whole list of suggested fixes or modifications, which you can then either implement, or use to simply know how some people feel about parts of the map.

Indeed.
On the screenies, I think you can put more details on the ceilings/walls/floor, it's pretty flat atm. But very cool. Can't wait for a beta

A new day, and some new pics. First, so that the location names make sense, I'll post a couple versions of the minimap:





On most of the pics, I've added the location name to the bottom right corner. So, if you're interested, you can check the minimap and see how it fits together.

The green minimap was a bit of an experiment. The locations are highlighted in green so that you can see how much area each location covers, which I thought might be useful. However, it might also look a little busy and it's not consistent with other ns minimaps. So, I made a set of 4 in blue and a set of 4 in green. It doesn't require much extra work, just a matter of hiding layers in the PSD, and gives people more to choose from.

The following pics can be clicked on for larger versions.

First, we have a picture of Observatory Halls. I did this area twice because I wasn't happy with the way the first version looked. Along the walls, there are cubbyholes that skulks can use for ambushing, and the ceiling is clipped so that fades and jetpacks can go through the halls at full speed without getting stuck.



This area may look familiar. It's the same spot the picture of the vent exit from waste halls was taken, but from a different angle.

The red light may look like an overlay, but it isn't. I just modified the texture a little and added black trim to it to give it a sharp edge without it looking truncated. The light is just a regular brush, and doing that instead of using overlays saves 10 ents in that area.



When I started the map, I just used a flat grey texture until I was happy with the layout, and then worked on texturing, lighting etc. The window frame in this picture is a bit of a souvenir from that starting process. It's the only visible part of the map that still has that texture, and while I think it could be better, I like the contrast it has with the sky.



A spiral staircase isn't really possible in NS because of the level over level restriction. So, I decided to split it in half.

The texture on the cylinder aligns seamlessly all the way around -- likewise in other areas of the map.



In this area, there is a cubbyhole above the pipe and a couple good dark corners that skulks can use to ambush.

This area is just outside of marine start. There are a couple cubbyholes in the hallway with the grate floor, on the left, that gorges can use to heal without getting in the way.



In this picture, you can see a doorway with red lights on the left side. That's Communications -- where the pics of the exterior were taken. On the right side, you can see the area from the previous picture, but if you look carefully, you can see a vent opening that wasn't visible in the previous picture. That is the vent that is on the bottom right corner of the minimap if you want to see where it leads.



Here's a shot of the same area, but looking down from a hiding spot.

cool, very tight texturing, i like it

Oh my god, the RT with the deep space room is AWESOME !
The powerline cables texture looks a bit stretched, maybe you could reduce it a bit, I think it'll look better. And don't forget to add some trims

Added to favorites

I really like your minimaps! Nice attention to that detail!

Good to see a mapper who considers design as he works, all the attention to detail is fantastic. I love the amount of skulk spots.

The layout is the only concern, specifically double. Just how easy is it to relocate to double? It looks quite spacious.

Wow those are some neat screens you got there! Observatory halls is my favourite, Im really looking forward to get ar un through your map. Great details, I also like your minimaps, i think yours look a lot more cool and funny than the original ones.

IMO you last 3 shots lack a bit of color, white lightning, grey textures... some colored light/panel/anything would be a nice eyecatcher but thats about the only thing I can complain about

Butters? Is that you? (southpark pun)

Anyway that inaccessible detail is SEXY as hell! Awesome use of vis blocking as well. One thing which does bother me about that outside view is the lighting. If there is a sun in this system (and I guess it is a sun and not a black hole ) I think there should be a hint of this on the exterior hull plating. What I mean is there should be a contrast of bight and shadows with the use of an light_environment or in the worst case a few spotlights to add details to the lighting theme.

Other then that most has been said by others, it's a good looking map

It's a fair size, but not huge. I'll take this opportunity to go over it a bit.

In this first pic, you can see that the nodes are spaced out enough that you won't be able to protect everything by simply electrifying one rt. Hmm... maybe you can't see it. The other node is beside the stairs on the right.



You can use the towers with yellow lights for cover, and there’s enough room in the corners by the doorways to ambush.

The hole in the bottom of this next pic leads to one of the service tunnels, and there's a matching one on the other side.



The white vent in this next pic and the matching vent on the other side of the room are the only two weldables in the map.



Careful consideration should go into adding weldables because they can create dead space, which should be avoided. The best way to approach weldable vents is to either limit them to short attack positions to minimize the amount of dead space, or having multiple exits. A good example of a short attack position would be the weldable vent at double in Tanith, and a good example of multiple exits would be the vent system that runs from Temp Control to MS in Lost. Even after the vents are welded shut on the vent system in Lost, the additional exits ensure that the vent system is still useful.

Since I did not design the vent system like Lost and they are important paths, the weldable vents are limited to short vents that branch off the main hallways leading to double that are primarily attack positions. Even after the vents are welded shut, the openings on the opposite ends can serve as hiding spots to ambush marines as they enter the hallways. Welding the vents gives marines a little more security by stopping lerks from using them to spore spam, for example, but multiple paths into the core will prevent a bottleneck.

In the previous pic, you can also see a rusty opening on the ceiling. That leads into the pipe in this next picture. It's a useful path for aliens and jetpacks, but it would be tricky to use it as an attack position unless marines are directly below, or you swoop down.



This next picture shows the interior of one of the service tunnels that connect to the core, and the exterior that's visible from other locations.



In total, there are seven ways into the core, or five after the vents are welded.

I had more detail inside the core, but I had to simplify it a bit to lower r_speeds.

The map is compliant with the NS mapping guide with a couple caveats, one of those being the paths to the core. If I used sky brush on top of the bridges that connect to the core, you'd see it cut into the side. Using sky brush on the service tunnels would be out of the question altogether because they're so low. Because of this and the level over level restriction, the commander cannot see into the bridges or service tunnels, which deviates a little from the guide. However, not being able to build in the bridges and tunnels isn't much of a loss because it would only block traffic, and the commander can drop meds/ammo on either side. This makes those areas a little more risky for marines, but because there isn't much cover, they're also a bit risky for aliens. Therefore, it should balance out, and having to be more alert in some areas may actually be good for game play.

I remember reading about how the commander can tap into the computer system to control doors and stuff, and from that, I got the idea that the aliens damaged the system in the bridges and service tunnels as an explanation for the blind spots. Originally, I was going to have a large monitor in marine start with the map on the screen showing the bridges and tunnels flashing in red and text explaining the system failure, but I needed the texture memory for other things and figured that most people that play multi player action games aren’t very interested in a storyline anyway.

However, it may be an idea worth exploring in NS2. For example, you could have wiring in areas around the hives that aliens can damage to create small blind spots, which would give them an advantage in defending the area. At the same time, marines could go into such an area and repair it, which would require teamwork because the commander wouldn’t be able to help them. Instead, marines would have to cover the person welding until the system is repaired.

It's an addiction that I managed to quit cold turkey, but I fell off the wagon recently.

I can do that with models, but I'll put it on a work list for a second release so that I can get the first release out as soon as possible.

Decals have to be added to the decals wad, which means that the only way I can add custom decals is if I include an updated decal wad that would replace your current decal wad.

I think something like "USS Saturn" as a decal on the wall of the core facing the Communications window would be cool. USS actually stands for United States Ship, and this is a station, but they both start with S so it still works.

I want to try and have the first version out by the end of this week. Currently I'm working on some lighting and some 2D details based on comments so far. 2D is easy because it doesn't use any leaves. I can post some before and after shots tomorrow.

One part confused me. You talked about using the sky texture so the comm could see into the service tunnels? Thats not how comms do that. Take the ceiling of the tunnels and turn them into a func_seethrough. Wouldnt that fix that whole issue?

Oh and again, i highly suggest PMing some of us on the Reviewers list. I'd gladly take an hour or so to run through your map, try to break it in every way possible, and return to you (probably) with a list of suggested fixes/changes before you do your first full release. Always better to find at least some of the kinks before pubbers find them mid-game

Outside for pizzaz? Doesn't need models, but some very nice lighting touches, maybe an 'aerial' or two.

best map in this forum !!

It looks easily large enough for a relocation. The low ceiling would not make it easier to Fade there, but it's clear enough for it to not be a problem, and with multiple exits it'd be hard to Fade block. The 'no medpacks in the access tunnels' would mean a decent Alien team could punish them (sporing/OCs/Gorgespit + Skulk/Fade blitzkrieging in tunnels). But I still think the fact it covers 3 RTs quite safely and probably the MS and Obs ones reasonably well, and the easy striking distance to Cargo and Water Purification Hives make it a rewarding gambit. I'd consider maybe making the Obs Halls kink further downwards to increase the travel time to Core if my theory is proved in playtests.

OK, here are some shots of changes I've made in the last couple days.

I used this white wall texture because I thought it'd be appropriate for a space station. However, I was never really happy with this area, and with the suggestions about adding more detail, it became even more clear that this area would need revising.



Here's a shot after some changes, but I still want to add a few things to break up the white walls a bit.



In the red circle, you can see some of the lighting problems I've been trying to sort out. You'll notice that the lights are off in the first pic and on in the second pic. This is because I'm cycling through the lights to find the source of the problem.

This is in the same area, just around the corner, and it looked pretty bare because it wasn't quite finished.



Here's what it looks like now:



This hallway is between powerline and power core.



And this is what it looks like now:



I think it can be taken a step further by adding some models of wires and pipes along the top of the walls to give it more of a 3D look.

I also added monitors to walls in other parts of the map that looked a bit bare, but you can get the general idea from these pics so I'll skip over that.

Here's an old shot of marine start:



The blue lights under the stairs were inspired by Star Wars.

Again, I wanted to show the exterior where possible so the windows curve inward.

It's a large room without much variation or cover so I made some changes:



I also shaved off some leaves by optimizing, and I’m using that to add the additional vent in waste halls that I talked about earlier.

The commander’s view will start from the height that you set, go down to the first surface, and ignore everything underneath. However, if I fill in the space above the bridge with sky brush, it would no longer be a part of the map. The engine will not render space that a brush occupies. Therefore, it would start from the ceiling, inside the bridge, and go down to the floor.

Alternatively, I could adjust the height of the commander’s view so that you can see into the bridge, but that would screw up the view in other areas of the map and would not do anything for the service tunnels.

A func_seethrough would work, but would not block vis, and thus create problems with r_speeds.

Perhaps a couple pics will help:



The pic above is from the doorway on the power core side of the bridge, which the commander can see. He can drop ammo/meds/structures right up to the edge of the doorway, and he can also scan ahead to make sure that aliens aren't waiting to ambush you on the other side before you walk into the bridge.

In the green circle, you can see the vent opening that leads to the weldable vent in power core that aliens can use to ambush, but again, keep in mind that the comm can drop ammo/meds there.

In the red circle, you can see a misaligned texture that I just noticed when taking the pic.

And here's the view from the other side of the same bridge:



The commander can see and drop ammo/meds/structures here, too, just not inside the bridge, but the aliens can't ambush marines inside the bridge unless they have cloaking.

The tunnels are a little longer and curve slightly so they may be a little more risky, but you'll still have a good line of sight, and the aliens can't ambush in the tunnels unless they have cloaking. The best tactic for the tunnels would be to chuck a grenade or shoot into it a bit to see if it's clear first, and get the commander to scan ahead.

Incredible mapping; one of the best NS maps I've seen. I like the cleaner areas, it's nice to see that in an NS map. That one screenshot with the diagonal black pipes jutting out of the white walls is amazing, I really like it.

Good job! Can't wait to see your work on NS2.

This map looks great! nice job.

The only concern I can think of is that it looks like the top hive could be sieged from double... which would be quite terrible for balance.

I've been concerned about the siege points at that hive for a while, but I didn't think to check double. After a test, I found that you're right. It is possible if you put the sieges right up to the wall, and I agree completely that that's unacceptable. Therefore, I think the quickest solution, in order to still be able to release it this weekend, is to simply move the hive up. I've just finished doing an ent update with the hive moved, tested the siege points, and here's the battle plan:



The yellow hive shows the new location. I'll make sure that it's high enough that an onos can walk under it so that it doesn't block traffic, and that there's also enough room for a gorge to camp out on top of it to heal.

I'll revise the old hive area, circled in green, and use it for spawns and some defense positions up top.

The yellow and orange circles show siege points along surrounding walls. It's the area in the orange circle that I was originally concerned about because it's a bit of a distance for aliens, and time is critical when marnies are about to siege. Therefore, I'll add a vent in the area that's highlighted in pink. There's quite a bit of area to choose from when building sieges, but it's basically on the doorstep of the hive so it shouldn't be too hard to defend -- unlike double.

On the other side, there's another siege point circled in white. While it looks like it may be possible to siege from the top area within the circle, where the vent exit is, I wasn't able to siege the hive from there when testing. You have to drop the sieges a little further down in the hallway leading to the hive.

Here are some pics of the new vent system I added to waste:

First, going into the vent from the Waste hive doorway:



which leads into this next pic as the red arrow shows:



A bird's eye view (or is that a lerk's eye view?) of the siege point where the first pic was taken:



Then, it leads out to the area above the pipes:



Should be a good spot for lerks to do what they do best -- be annoying.

This isn't new, but I figured I'd throw it in anyways:



On the catwalk
Yes, the catwalk....

A gorge can jump out of the vent, use the catwalk to move around Waste, drop the hive and/or some chambers, and jump back into the vent to safety if need be.

Now, I'll load up some mapping tunes and get to work on Cargo.

I really like the look of this map. Looking forward to trying it out when it hits beta.

I think everyone is!

this is one of the very few maps that impresses me

though your cargo reminds me alot of the one in tanith (name, catwalk, and vague shape similarity)

but good map, cant wait to try it

How to turn a shoebox condo into spacious living: home improvement Kharaa style.

First, here's the old pad:



You can see a flat wall with angled orange lights. The hive used to be behind that.

In this next pic, you can see a vent above the rt and an opening in the floor, by the rt, that leads to another vent. It's not new, but I thought I'd point out the additional paths anyways.



Instead of a chandelier, there's a hive in the center of the room. It matches the decor better.



The flat wall was removed to open up the room. Think of the top area like The Rock movie: I'm up here, and you're down there!

The wall where the old hive used to be also juts into the room more to reduce the chance of chambers getting sieged from double, but there's still space on the sides for spawns.

The vent that runs along that area went over the old hive position a bit, but the commander has a clear view of the hive now:



I also thought of a better idea for a vent to northeast access, but I have to do some more optimizing first to free up some leaves.

More infestations in that hive. Be creative with triangles!

Man that map looks almost perfect, add more debris and broken stuff laying around to take care of that 'ultra clean' look. A little infestation here and there, a fallen computer, few light fixtures broken, and a bit more variance in light and you have a map good enough to be for ns itself

Edit: removed old download link, and put up to date link in the original post.



It took a little longer than I thought. I had to constantly optimize and test to ensure that the map stayed within compile limits and to avoid alloc block errors or Half-Life would do something like this:



All 8 minimaps are included in the zip file, but I only included the blue minimap with labels in the res file to keep downloads as short as possible.

Releasing it with no extension? I.e. ns_saturn_v1? Gutsy. I'll check it out and post comment in a few.

-Cargo Hive: Is there no way for marines to get up to the second level? It seems as though theres a lot of space up there. Wouldn't that be a bit too good for aliens to place chambers and camp, especially healing gorges during a siege?

-Cargo hive, with its surrounding siege rooms, is set up very well. I'm definitely looking forward to both attacking and defending that hive.

-The rounded vents going from Lerks Nest to Dbl: I spent a full 20 seconds trying to get into that rounded vent. It seems damn near impossible without a jump (normal skulk movement should never require a jump for what would usually be a normal wall-walk). Consider changing this somewhat, as i can foresee a lot of players complaining. Perhaps pulling the round part up a few feet, so that you go up a square vent and THEN go into the circular vent, that might fix it.

-I love the elevators. Not enough elevators have full-bottoms, i.e. ppl cant go underneath them when they're up. I wanted to do the same for my map, but couldnt for various reasons.

-Nice general look to the vents, with the small borders around each entrance etc

-Perhaps the biggest layout issue though is the lack of a secondary left approach to Cargo Hive. If the aliens have Waste Handling (left hive), it is impossible for the marines to approach Cargo from the left. As such, a smart strategy (when starting with Waste) would be to lock down a bottleneck on the other side of Cargo: say, North East Access. With just an OC, a chamber and a gorge (available from one person within a minute, usually), that one player could almost guarantee a 2nd hive. My suggestion would be to add a route like this:


This would relatively solve the issue. To consider an equivalent of the current situation, think of Veil: it would be as if The Dome was blocked off from the north. If it was, you would not be able to approach Cargo from the east without necessarily going through Pipeline.

-COMM VIEW: Dear god, you REALLY need to raise the comm view. I only hopped in just now to start checking out the sieges, and it feels like my comm's eyes would be pressed against the marines' helmets. Definitely raise this by a significant amount. I checked around, almost the entire map is the same level; meaning, a comm would almost definitely get a headache. For the few areas that are a bit lower, dont worry about it. You're FAR from hitting the Comm r_speed limits.

SIEGEING:
Now, i dont know if you specifically did this on purpose, but both of the outside hives are a B*TCH to siege from the marine-start side. And, both are significantly easier to siege from the middle-hive side.

-Waste Hive. This hive seems damn near impossible to siege from the MS side. You can fit 4 sieges in you place them VERY TIGHTLY against the walls at the end of Waste Halls, but frankly, most comms would not fit them that tightly and probably conclude that you cant siege from there. I'd suggest making this a bit easier.
You can also siege Waste hive from the BEGINNING of Waste Halls. I dont think you intended for this. You can only fit 3 sieges, and they have to be very tight as well, but this makes for a very, very easy siege, especially if the comm has additional pinging power (a 2nd obs).

-Water Hive. To siege from MS is a b*tch here too. Best would be to put the TF in the corner of Alloc Block, then have the sieges in the hallway next to the hive; but this is RIGHT NEXT to the door into the hive, and i'd foresee aliens dominating this pretty hard.

-Cargo Hive. The main siege spot would be right in Loading Bay (as sieges just about anywhere in there will reach), and that would be an awesome battle. My concern though is with North East Access: you can fit as many sieges in here as you want. This would be a very imbalanced siege, imo. The aliens have the one vent that goes right into the room, sure, but that would be so overused that at least a single marine would just watch it, and decimate anything coming through. Hence, the main route would have to be used a lot more, and the main route to that hive is very long, and not alien-friendly much at all. Sure, there's the vent from Loading Bay that flanks a bit, but i doubt enough players would use it. IMO, this siege would be very, very easy for marines. It'd be a tough siege to fix up, as a mapper, but i'd highly suggest trying. Perhaps move all of that area west and a bit north.


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Thats it for the constructive criticism. Awesome job man, this is a really sweet map. You have a couple things that you should really consider fixing up for the next version (hence why you should always start maps off with a _b1 or such ), but it is in no way unplayable. Try pimping your map on some of the server forums: www.iam-clan.com, www.tacticalgamer.com, www.g4b2s.com, www.nsbadclan.net, etc.

Looks nice, although you really need a snappy skybox. The current one makes the station a little bland to look out on the outside, also some light coming from a sun or something reflecting off the station hull would be nice.

Are you sure about not adding an extension to the mapname?
I could run it on my server right now, but I just need to be sure about this so that players don't get problems with updated versions.

First, sorry about the file naming. I double checked the mapping guide for file naming, but was tired and in a rush so I forgot the beta version. Second, stix pointed out something that I can fix quickly. Therefore, I want to run another compile, and I'll post a new link to that as the first beta in a few hours. I took the old link down for now to prevent confusion.

BTW, the guide says that sounds should go in the sounds folder, but it is actually the sound folder.

This is why I want to run another compile before posting a new link. Normally, there is enough room to get into the pipe no problem. However, the frame of the vent leading to the pipe was originally a func_illusion to prevent players from getting stuck on it. Later, I decided to switch back to regular brushes and used a clip brush on the floor of the vent instead, and clipped the sides to lower clipnodes. This is the cause of the problem you're talking about, and I'm glad you caught it. Normally, I keep a list of things I change before a compile and go through it to test for problems after the compile, but I missed that one. To fix it, I'll simply remove the clip brushes, and make the frame flush with the walls, floor and ceiling. I already double checked it in a test map before running a full compile, and there is no problem once the clip brushes are removed.

That was intentional. Gorges are vulnerable when healing the hive, and because there are spawns up in the top space, making it harder for marines to get up there also makes it harder to spawn camp. However, they can still use grenades, and it does nothing to protect against jetpacks. If it is a problem, I can easily add a ladder, but let's see how it plays out first.

I'd think of the top level of cargo like the top level in Vent, in Origin. Imagine if marines couldnt get up there? It'd be heaven for aliens... and unbalanced.

And if you're doing a recompile, consider the other things i mentioned, but especially, please raise the comm view. Its WAY too close to ground level.

And have you thought about that extra hallway i explained in the pic?

OK, a new version is now available with the b1 file name for the bsp, minimaps and res file. This also fixes the problem with getting into the pipe from the vent at lerk's nest.

Edit: removed old download link, and put up to date link in the original post.

The top of powersilo in ns_nothing can be used for the same purpose, but there are tactics that marines can use to deal with it. Similarly, aliens can get on top of the hive in most maps, build chambers and use it as a meat shield, but again, marines have tactics for dealing with it.

There are spawns in the top area of cargo, and making it difficult for marines to get up there also means that it's a little harder for them to spawn camp, which, I think, is a good thing.

I already played around with the height of the comm view and set it to the current height because it's the best way to see as much of the map as possible. If I increase the height, the comm view will be above the roof of power core, and that means that the commander will only be able to see into double through the small piece on top. To prevent that, I'd have to fill in the space above the roof and redesign the pipe that leads to double. It's possible, but it's more time consuming than simply changing the height.

I did consider adding a path by waste at one point, but at the time, I was a bit concerned about making the map complex. It's a good idea, but I'll have to lower leaves and clipnodes first.

Because redesigning parts of the map will take more time, it's best to save that for another beta. I'd also like to see how the map plays before spending a lot of time changing it.