just thought that if a certain reward will be given if a marines goes to a wp, like +1/2 score to that marine, a large number of what we call "stat ######s", players who tries to rank 1st in the scorebord, will obey more orders. not a major change but i definetly think it will increase the % of the marines going to wps by a notable amount.

I just let any marine who does NOT obey orders die. That also cuts in on there points, saves me res and eventually gives a free server slot to possibly get a marine who does follow orders.

I think this is a very good idea that wont effect game play other than you have to start trusting your commanders decisions to be on top =]

hahahaha

if you really think this would change the order of players on the scoreboard youre delusional

ps: dc_darkling, ive seen you comm and maybe i should bring to your knowledge that youre not good enough at it to afford having your marines with aim to die and/or ragequit

edit: the more i think about this idea and the mentality that can be read between its lines, the more it makes me feel sick. but yeah, keep on trying to invent ways how youre somehow a better (team)player than the other guy who actually gets things done.

maybe if youd stop worrying about your score and started learning how to kill stuff effectively, you wouldnt complain as much

You forgot "the least co-operative players almost always correlate with being most stat-conscious" in your argument.

Who the hell uses way points as their prime method of telling people where to go? >.>

Or we could allow the com to recycle marines. There's an incentive.

That, my friend, is an awesome idea.

Click on a marine, and then click the recycle button, and the marine is locked in place for say 5 seconds. Then he disappears, and you are refunded 80% of the cost of any equipment he was carrying, and he has to respawn. I would totally use that.

If you think I lack certain things I am always open to suggestions.
And my comming skills peak and drop heavily depending on my mood and what rines I got under me, but thats a different story.

just re-enable giving a marine a waypoint to guard himself... If they don't listen that makes a good FPS killing / vision obscuring punishment...

The incentive for following orders is a strong economy which results in guns and tech, which is a reward in and off itself, just visibly hold weapons back from people who disobey

hi never playing marines on a pub again

If marines get individual res, then i would suggest the following:

Marines get +1 pt to going to a waypt successfully (maximum effectiveness of 1 pt per minute per marine).

1 pts for a skulk kill, 4 for a lerk, 6 for a fade, 8 for an onos , .5 for building a structure, 1 for following a waypt successfully. =D.

I like the idea the only concern I have is that there might be comms who spam waypoints at MS and marines get tonnes of points from that, but thats unlikely, not a big deal and can be avoided with a 'x' number of meters walk to waypoint requirement.


In response to some people above concerning points not being a good incentive:
Just because the little score effect doesn't make the good players go to the waypoint doesn't change the fact that the unskilled players will go there. Those unskilled players will try even harder to get to those WP's because they will get more points than if they were to actually try and kill.

It's mostly the unskilled players and those that think their "too good for waypoints" that don't go to WP's too, and this idea targets that type of people. Moreover, the good players should be going to WP's anyway, because they are smarter than the other less skilled players and know why to go to waypoints (they want to win, but to win you need to go to waypoints).


Side note:
I don't really like the idea of individual res being introduced in NS marines. It makes a bunch of issues, above others make players NOT follow the comm's orders (alot of players will think: "why should I got to WP's when I can just kill and get guns. The commander isn't the only way to get guns anymore so why should I listen to him?" which will inevitably happen).

You're idea goes both ways, it really depends on the player. My two res says that it really depends on how it's spent: if its used to buy stuff like an extra nade or support weapons like welders I would be in favour; if its for HMG's and SG's I'm not in favour.

some things id like to point out which i think your logic missed:

- good marines dont 'think' theyre smarter than the comm and thus allowed to disregard waypoints, they know they are.

- this depends a lot on the situation but sometimes one marine, no matter how good, isnt enough to win a situation somewhere. if i think i need help from my teammates in distracting/baiting the aliens, ill try to get them to come with me. that wouldnt work anymore if they just mindlessly run for the (stupid and irrelevant) waypoint set by the comm


it really all just comes down to the fact that the comm is not always the best strategist/most experienced player on the marine team. try harder to accept that

Thing is, if he thinks he is smarter than the comm, he should ideally be telling the comm what is wrong with whatever plan he might have. If he however, disregards waypoints knowing that it's wrong yet not telling the commander this issue then he isn't fulfilling what I consider to be a good player (which is more than reflexes and aim to me). This is assuming that the commander/team is competent enough to actually listen to what he has to say and is reasonable.

Sorry for the typo, I that sentence should have been 'too good for waypoints but really aren't'. Forgot to add that last bit.


First off, if the waypoint is irrelevant and stupid it shouldn't be put there in the first place. Reason being that the players should see that irrelevant waypoint and should mention about it. But honestly, there will always be problems with any thing/idea that comes up.

Take the issue of armory humping, you need to teach your marines that they shouldn't hump the armory dry. Sure there will always be that 20% of people (well in this case its more because its grown into a habit for players) who just don't listen and will continue to hump the armory. To solve that problem we could easily just remove the armory, but is that a good enough reason?

Same applies for this situation: There will still be that 20% who run straight to the WP (who we have to teach to not do) and we can solve it by keeping it the way it is now, but do the consequences really outweigh the benefits?

Side Note:
Just so its clear, the benefits that I mentioned just now are (so far):

• More players following commander's orders.
• Less marines mindlessly running around trying to get kills solely to try to improve their score.
• More mindless marines running into WP location and act as cannon fodder rather than more mindless marines running into a hive solo.

The consequences (so far):

• More players running mindlessly running to a WP disregarding other priorities.
• Various exploits possibly open by the idea (like placing WP's in MS to increase score of marines).

Did I ever once say that in my post? Re-read it, I haven't said that once.

And even if I by chance did, I know the comm isn't the best player in the marine team, but he has (should) have team to guide him to doing the right thing. Plus, even the most experienced person makes mistakes once and awhile, and his team points them out for him.

well most of the time people just dont care, or theyre too busy trying to save what still can be saved to stop and type something. if you use your mic on a pub then awesome i guess, but ive noticed that the comms that seem to love their own voices are the worst to learn or listen


oh i dunno, it was meant for this thread, not for any specific person

although your posts contain truth I disagree on the good rines should not follow a perhaps worse comms waypoint aswell.

He's right, if you think you are better then your comm and think you should do something else then his Wp, let him know. Hell, perhaps you are better, perhaps you are just a selfish egoist who thinks he is. Perhaps the comm is even counting on a 'pro' to 'disobey' and do something else.

You said you played under my command, which is a brillaint example. lets asume I have time and res to do so, if not a rine should not nag about it anywayz. So a 'pro' is asking meds. Now given that I think (given the resources and strategy I use) that I can med that rine comes the question will I? Even if he/she did not follow orders, if the rine in question is for me actually usefull he will get meds. If I found the order to be to high a priority for even the pros to be dropped I'll let him die.

thinking back on matches there are only 3 ways for me to let a rine die by lack of meds:
* no res
* no time
* he was disobeying on such a scale that he was worthless.

Let us hope I always don't med only for the first 2 reasons in which case I might suck since I got us like that, but atleast its my fault. Count on it it is the rines fault on reason 3.

Sure I never said I am the best comm. I am a egoist with lacking interest and motivation who has zero contious. But I am always willing open to suggestions and except I screwed up aslong as the socalled pros did not screw up first. I do not need 'pros' in a area where we got all RTs, no kharaa and I know there is no hive. be usefull and get to the bloody waypoint.


as a sidenote, we HAVE played and I know you are someone who can classify himself as pro. Don't take my opinion as if I am talking down on you

It's worse on aliens where almost NOBODY will drop a RT or chamber in the first few seconds of the game. Almost NOBODY on aliens reports enemy movements, and even fewer parasite. This usually ends up dooming the alien team since comebacks and powershifts are so rare now.

Personally I think the commander should be the commander. What do I mean by that? I mean that while aliens function best as a communistic society, marines are best functioning as a hierarchial society. The commander is the top rank and his orders should be the frikin word of god. He/She shouldn't be so easily ejected, he/she should have tools to enforce AWOL marines, he/she should have tools to make orders quick organized and easy to understand. Don't like the commander? Deal with it or leave. Ejection is too easy nowdays on several servers.

You shouldn't have to follow orders for the sake of following orders. They should be a means to an end, not the end itself. Like tomekki has pointed out, the vast majority of time I know what I should be doing better than the comm does, and since I don't normally use my mic in pubs, I'm not going to take the time to type out what we should be doing.

If a marine is going somewhere where he can kill aliens, he's doing a good job and you probably should leave him alone and give him all the ammo/meds he needs, better yet drop a shotgun for him because he's the one keeping the things with the big teeth and the claws off of your cappers who can't shoot for crap and will die to one skulk repeatedly.

However, if you want all of your marines inside of the hive the aliens are about to drop or at the siege spot and you have marines on the other side of the map, you should be able to recycle them. I'm all for that.

actually the aliens function best if there is an "alien commander" who can take input from the map, hud & ventrilo, process it and decide on the best course of action.

Or we could "FORCE" the player to move whereever the com clicks him to go. Sort of like how you do in Starcraft...

"Won't obey me will you? Well TRY IT AGAIN!"

or you could just play starcraft instead

-_____-

get off the internet please, right now

It has 99% less gorges.

winning the game is reward enough you would think

It isn't.

--also let me mention that I play first for fun and it's by consequence that I seek to win because I love it when my team wins and don't like loosing games. I'm also one of the very few people who never F4's, most don't even have that discipline.

PS: Why don't server admins kick rage quitters who F4 when the going gets tough?

lol i dont know why but that sounds bad :\




lol i dont know why but that sounds bad :\

Popular with the ladies, Smood?

Starcraft is unfair because people with good reactions and clicking speed can micro better. I suggest Chess.

wow i got some replies anyway back to the subject:

i think its a good idea because even if the comm spams wps in ms and gives tons of score,
its meaningless and just wastes time. so we solved that problom.

secondly, i thought before opening this thread, that we all agree that marines SHOULD follow orders- well even if its not smart to follow orders, good players will not do so and bad players wont do anything useful anyway.
a good comm dont have to give one wp to all his team.

one more thing- i am using a mic, and when i say something i add a wp (if im in a pub) so the less experienced marines can find their way to "dbl"-wps DO have a use.

Improving the waypoint system could make some difference. Atm waypoints are often misclicks, hive checks h or just old and outdated plans. At least I never even notice the waypoints since they are out of date 95% of the time. Improving it could ensure that at least the willing marines get to know what the comm wants. Newbies could get slightly more precise information too.

Make the waypoints disappear after death and maybe allow comm to trigger waypoints such as "respawners go cap sat side" or "all take pg to dome and rush to cargo".

Make marines with same waypoint turn green on minimap so that its easier to see if the comm wants a group somewhere.

Give comm a few different waypoints if possible. Ctrl + right click could cause a "cap the res" wp while plain right click displays message "clear the room".

Of course making such system inuitive is a huge task.

Its not a solution to people not following orders but it makes understanding orders much easier.

I think the current waypoint system is fine, its merely the commanders who are misusing it or not using it at all.

I introduced a buddy to NS a few weeks ago, and he said he could always tell when i was comming because waypoints would always pop up telling him exactly where to go. I know its completely unnecessary for at least half the players, but i still just whip around giving waypoints for everyone, while i'm saying it over the mic. Its not hard, and not much work, since you should be hovering over all of your marines constantly anyways (and since you can simply Control-Group your tech so you dont have to be visiting base all the time)

At least I feel that I have to explain way too much stuff with chat. Using microphone fixes some of the problems, but even if the server has a good voice codec, unnecessary voice communication still blocks the rest of the sounds. Waypoints block line of sight very effectively. I'd like to have some more possibilities to guide the marine without planting a waypoint after waypoint and shouting on my mic until he does everything right. Maybe people even learnt a bit more of the gameplay while the waypoints explain more.

Myeh, a "default reinforcement area" kind of waypoint that lets people know where to go/which route to run through after they spawn unless told something else, or objective commands like "build res", "intercept" or whatever. Directional commands in general are useless because those who know the game don't need them and those who would need it never know to heed them.

Even if it is the commanders' faults, a lot of people ignore waypoints because of how poorly they're usually updated. So if a good comm who knows how to use them hops in the chair, pubbers already assume the waypoints mean nothing.

possibly the dankest idea ive ever seen

there is always potential for abuse however. say the com wants to jack up the stats for his good friend playing; all he would have to do is click the waypoint right in front of his friend wherever he goes. by the time the marine has walked 100 yards he has 50 points...

i personally dont feel it is much incentive for following orders, because instead of the 1/2 point someone would get for going to the waypoint, (assuming they are a competent player) they could just sit outside the hive for a few minutes and rack up 20 points....