i couldnt really come up with a solution to this problem but here is my arguement:

1)medpacks cost too much res

2)rfk doesnt cover the cost of medpacks

at first i was thinking of suggesting to remove rfk and make medpacks free but then medpacks could be abusively spammed and any marine under a good comm would never die.

i want to be able to keep my marines alive on the field without pushing my upgrade times back 1 or more minutes.

I don't think RFK is designed to perfectly balance out the cost of meds and ammo, only to aleviate the cost. IMHO the real balancing factor is that after the battle, your marine is still alive and in the position you wanted him. You might lose a little res, but its worth it for map control.

I don't think medpacks cost too much res, they cost a lot in numbers but heal quite a lot of health. RFK doesn't fully cover the cost, and I doubt it should. In my eye, I think that there is a balance between medpack dropping and upgrading, neither should be fully ignored or only focused on.

I however think that catpacks are a little overpriced, at least when given to average/below average players. In the hands of an expert/above average players, they can kill a lerk and a fade single handedly with a shotgun (I've commed with cats first and it happened!)

Ammo packs are quite cheap and I really like their price

make them cost 1 res and heal 33 hp or something

Make them free, but with cooldown.

stop medspaming kekekeke.

what is rfk

Resource for kills. You get 1-3 (random) for every kill you make.

solution:

dont spend 40 res on meds when your incapable team is trying to kill 1 skulk

That would be very interesting, but it could be too good in smaller games, yet slow in larger games.

RFK DOES cover the cost of medpacks. 1-3 res, giving the average of 2, which does what it does. And if you need more, just drop an armory.

rfk wont cover the cost of medpacks in a competative game in which the aliens know what they are doing, i already stated this in the OP.

free meds with cooldown could be cool, though i usually med in bursts so maybe the comm can drop X medpacks every Y seconds and the # of medpacks leftover from one period carries over.(kinda confusing)

so like you get 1 free medpack put into a pool of medpacks every 5 seconds, when the comm drops meds he withdraws from the pool. once the pool of medpacks is empty then it costs the comm 2 res per medpack like it does now(this is only for excess meds). the # of meds received free over a given period of time could be adjusted to whatever the devs think suitable.

this system would of course replace marine RFK.

Free medpacks is perhaps the most stupid idea since using fades to kill RTs.

and why's that?

its a good idea because medpacks cost too much res. restrictions have been put in place so it is not overly powerful.

Because medpacks costing resources is the entire foundation on which the resource game rests. Remove the cost aspect of medpacks and you ruin most of the only true RTS-eque aspect of NS. THEN we can talk about dumbing the game down.

im not dumbing down the game i am just providing the marines the means to have a reasonable amount of medpacks without slowing down their upgrade times by 30+ seconds.

You remove the choice between medspam and teching. You remove the ability for the khaara to force medpacking through spores, and weaken the effect of skulks attacking marines by removing the cost of surviving such an encounter. How is this not dumbing the game down?

Oh right, and you reduce the need to keep resources flowing while sieging, that's another choice gone.

you can still medspam instead of teching if you want to. everything remains the same except that the marines will be allowed to drop a more reasonable amount of meds without crippling their upgrades.

*swoosh* is the sound tour missing the point

I have to agree with tsojan on this point. Meds need to cost res because it forces the commander to assess the benefits of keeping marines alive in the feed as opposed to getting upgrades. The choice is what's important, and it's always dependent upon the situation. Let's keep some semblance of strategy in NS, guys.

i am not making medpacks completely free...

the only change is that the would-be rfk coverage of resupply is being replaced by a reasonable amount of free medpacks. the reason for this is that rfk doesnt cover the required amount of res for medpacks.

it is just like getting rfk except you dont actually have to kill to get it. it comes at a predetermined constant rate, and only for medpacks.

i dont think you guys even understand what im saying

medpacks are too good as they are now...

vote no

We understand what you're saying tours, but you seem not to...

hurr what about my suggestion

The lolboxes for skulks were fixed and lerk flight got nerfed. Why do marines need a buff again?

Medpacks don't need to be free. that is a bad idea.

What I'd like is a medpack that gives out health over time. Something that costs 2 res to drop and will heal the marine for 15 health per second, and lasts for 7 seconds.

why? that is so pointless....

Obviously you've never witnessed medspam.

What I mean is in addition to the normal medpack we have. you can still medspam if the game really depends on it, but it's nice to get the option of a slower, but full-health recovery option.

Those 1 and 2 res --> free changes have huge effect on gameplay. Alien upgrades got free in 3.0 and suddenly aliens were overpowered.

I like the 2 res meds. They allow comm to affect the game by deciding whether some marine is worth the investment and risk. There aren't that many possible options for the comms anyway, so lets not take out any of the med decisions.

rines got enought buffs as it is.. we really do not need anything changed on meds.

right know the entire rine techtree is balanced on a medpack and its cost. lets not alter that shall we

even if you spam a handful of medpacks, as long as that marine lives and makes the kill(s) then the RFK absolutely makes the cost worthwhile. When the marine dies, in the time it takes to respawn, grab weapons/equipment (not to mention the cost of said gear), and the time it takes to get back to where he was and continue what he was doing-- the cost has been far greater than that of a med spam. not to mention while he is respawning and re-equipping the alien(s) that killed him are damaging structures, attacking other marines, which is costing even more res.

and marine RFK is absolutely fine, and does not ever need to be taken away.

i vote no

r4k is not fine. I want it gone for both teams. That way, THERE IS NO PENALTY FOR PERMA-GORGING!

Gorges aren't afraid of losing out on potential res from kills, and will have an incentive to stay gorge. Hell, I wouldn't mind gorges getting a slightly bigger share of the res-flow (usable only to build structures).

It'll also make mad suicide rush strategies more viable again, by not feeding the opponent team a TON of res if you die.

Removing r4k makes Resource Towers a more important part of the game, which is always good. It'll emphasize the RTS partof the game a bit more rather than the FPS. Killing the opponents slows them down so they can't take down your resources.

RFK is fine in a game with somewhat similar players. It's only when you have 1 guy with a 55-5 score that generates 99% of the res for his team. But then that can't be blamed on RFK, but upon the system where those players can mix with the regulars. So it's really stacked games that is the problem here. Again, RFK is fine in a game with relatively similar players.

Why do we need RFK? It's simple. More players means you need more res. It will take longer to get upgrades, gear and whatever to pass around. This will lengthen the game considerably, which can be a good or bad thing, depending how you look at it.

So the obvious answer? Make RTs generate more res right? But that creates another problem. Marines can now get upgrades a lot faster, etc. There has to be a steady flow, so the RTs can't be touched as the game is balanced around them perfectly.

RFK creates an artificial increase in res that is needed in larger games. If something were to be about stacked teams, then I'm sure it wouldn't be a problem...

I agree with the several points that making medpacks cost res has the commander deciding if he wants marine survivability NOW, versus upgrades later on. It adds to the strategy. Oh and I don't care about clans tours...

I think we should make NS into a turn based RPG. That way people's skill won't mess things up. Yes. Who agrees with me? Smood?

Believe it or not, but that was actually an efficient tactic for a short while during Summer 2004.

A good commander will balance keeping marines alive with meds with his current income and the likelihood of that marine being able to accomplish something for the team due to spending res on meds for him. A bad commander will spam meds to everyone "just 'cause" or not drop meds at all because "they're too expensive." I've seen both, and I've probably done the former myself on multiple occasions. Meds free with a cool down limits what the commander can do as far as keeping a marine alive, which is just bad. Right now a commander can keep a marine alive for a pretty high cost if he needs that marine to do something, and that's just fine. The people crying "medspam is overpowered" fail to understand that it has an opportunity cost, assuming marine resnodes are being kept to a minimum by the alien team. The opportunity cost is guns and tech, the problem is that on pubs most marine teams keep a large number of RTs, far more than they should. This allows commanders to both apply meds liberally and tech at the same time. This is why I can have 8 minute 3/1 upgrades with HMGs, jetpacks researching, and still keep marines alive with meds. It is not overpowered in any fashion, meds are fine as-is in terms of usability and cost.

Yeah I know, I played back then.

milkbottles.avi

ouch

resource towers are already one of the most important parts of the game. even if the teams are pretty stacked/unbalanced, the team that can hold the most res towers throughout the progession of the game is usually undoubtably going to win. you can sit and kill all day long but eventually without res towers the other team is going to overpower you. hence i dont think that rfk really interferes with the importance of resource towers, but much like Adj mentioned, rfk really makes a difference for the larger games with more players.

RFK is not fine, because it give random res.

I would agree with your logic except for a few things. In large games, your res costs increase dramatically. Not only do you need to drop mroe equipment, but you also need to pay out of your ears in order to give med packs and ammo to a 14-man team. Any extra res that RTs give out will be balanced by the fact that the commander needs to waste a hell of alot more res on meds and ammo.

I believe it'd all work out if we just scaled res-flow to the number of players on the other team.