Church, most good *TEAM* players would agree with you.

Many 'good players' who are not team players, would not. How many 'leets' do you see run past EVERY node they see?

And many newbs would simply not grasp the economic consequences behind all this. Every RT really matters, and matters a lot. An extra minute of a marine rt being up, just a teency little minute, means an extra HMG on the field. Which leads to more skulks dying, which leads to more RTs being up, which leads to more HMGs...

The idea was tossed out there to... make everyone bite em down more.

those are called pubstars

Actually Tom, i'd disagree with that. I find the players who run by the rts are mostly the ones who are high on their own skill. Pubstars have skill but they generally dont actually act like they're better than everyone else, whereas the 'leets' do. And those leets are the ones who run past the node, thinking 'its a waste of my precious time, be being so goddamn awesome compared to the rest of the nubs, to be hitting the node. They should do it so i can be on to getting hundreds of kills.'

Which in some ways is true; good players can get more kills than newb players. But, it doesnt mean that they should be avoiding killing RTs, and especially, avoiding killing ANY rt.

Its all about communication. When I'm a fade and I blink past an RT I always say "any skulks near "blah" come kill this RT, I will be in the area to watch your back". Its very rare that I don't get at least 1 or 2 skulks to kill it while I push forward towards the nearest marine location. Unless an RT is already half dead or more its not worth a fade's time (unless its elec'd of course).

So the main problem I see with this system, is it might make killing RTs too tempting for higher lifeforms. Still think its worth a plugin try though

that is the definition of pubstar. your point again?

in any case youre wrong. ill kill rts if i can trust my team to keep marines from our own nodes. likewise on marines, ill cap rts if i can trust my team to kill alien rts. alien rts are much more important than marine ones, anyone can walk to west and waste to cap/eat the nodes there it doesnt take the best shot on your team

you need to roll with the game. you can't say from the offset "X kill RTs all game", "Y kill marines all game" "Z kill RTs after building hive". if there's a strong marine squad standing between you and a marine RT with 1 bar then get the fade to finish it. if marines have JP+MT get lifeforms to hit res. but even those 2 examples don't hold true all the time.

team effort, innit.

but curse the skulk who steals my +5 score with a single bite after i do 99% damage to the rt.

Snipe, dude, baby. Chill and listen. It's obvious that you're new to the game. There's no reason to be stubborn and argue against what actually has been proven to work better. Just disregard what you think you know, say, "Ah, yes, I understand," and go with it, because that's what a new player needs to be doing. Not that they can't be figuring things out for themselves, but when you get an overwhelming response from other people that 'skulks are the structure hunters' then you know what? It's probably true. We've been playing this game for a lot longer than you, and while your logic may seem right, Natural-Selection is not hunting, and no alien is carrying around a shotgun.

Fades, onos, and lerks (all of the offensive higher lifeforms) are better at combating marines than skulks. That is all you need to know to forumulate that skulks are going to be the ones to hunt the RTs. Here, your hunting analogy: If you have some 13 year old kid that can shoot squirrels, and a 47 year old war veteran that takes down angry bears with only his hands, then you do not send the 47 year old war veteran to shoot squirrels. You send the little kid to do it.

Ah, yes, i understand

just kidding, but seriously, wow

you have the reading comprehension skills of a pencil sharpener.

look... i obviously was careless in the way i worded my previous posts, because i never intended for this to be a debate about who should and shouldnt attack the RTs, it was a matter of comparison between who could do it more efficiently based on the lifeform's unique attributes...

do we understand yet? no? ok here is your silly analogy re-worked...

now of course you would use the 13 year old kid to shoot the squirrels and the 47 year old to hunt the bears-- now ask yourself, if you were to send the 13 year old AND the 47 year old to both hunt squirrels, who would do a better job.........

it is simply a hypothetical question- it is not a tangible argument about which lifeform should and shouldnt do what....

and new player??!! are you serious.... you know with all of those posts you have under your belt someone would assume you would actually read the other message boards than the I&S board.... here try this link...

perhaps if you spent less time on the forums and more time playing the game you would understand where i'm coming from a little better......

just because someone doesnt com/play/use the lifeforms the way YOU do doesnt make them a new player. like i said earlier, there is only one thing in the end that ultimately matters-- victory. now how you achieve said victory should not matter as long as you are a good team player and have fun while you play.

im not trying to be hostile or nasty with you at all but you dont know where im coming from and you have no right to insult me in that manner just because you dont agree with my methods of doing things.... remember there is more than 1 way to win...

They both shoot squirrels while the bear rushes downs and kills them both, gg.



Funny.

sorry i havent played every single release of the game because i get bored of one game if i play it to much and i prefer variety in life... i have played since the first public release though, and i have played this game more than i play cs and dod etc, i only play them for a couple of months every once and a while so that NS doesnt get old.....

thanks for your stupid comment though.

his point is that you dont necessarily know how the game has changed

And the tiny winy point that he chooses to completely ignore oppinions by people who have more experience in this game than he does. Let alone the ridiculous analogies about hunting.

no, i understand that the game has made a lot of various changes over the many releases, but overall the game has fundamentally remained the same...

key word there being opinions.. opinions and fact often do not coincide... and the hunting analogies from both me and haze were pretty on point actually...

you dont need to be demeaning to someone because they have not spent every waking hour of their lives playing ns... its just a game lol (albeit quite a good one i confess)

Yes, but in my eyes i can as demining as i want to be towards people who are ignorant to oppinions of players who are good at this game. I have no idea about you're personal skill, but by the replies you have done here, i'd guess you aint even close to theirs.

But hey! ITS JUST A GAME LAWL.

all im going to say is, to repeat myself

opinions and facts often do not coincide. so go ahead and take the side of someone who has played the game longer, or more often; even though that is usually no reflection of personal skill at all.

so a player's skill is now based on their posts on an internet message board... you should try judging a person's skill by playing the game instead of by judging what kind of posts they make on a game forum....

something as obvious as rt chewing does not need different opinions on how to execute it right. it is an unquestionable fact that skulks should chew nodes over and before all other lifeforms. this conclusion was reached through the scientific method

Make stuff up more please. Only way their skill can be shown here on forums, is by what they write about. Which in your case, well not having anyone agreeing with you should tell you something.


I know pretty much all the posters in this thread, which isnt that hard since the NS scene is pretty damn small, playing the game from start makes you know pretty much everyone(atleast american&european in my case).
Expecially those who have played it in competitive scene. And quite frankly, i don't remember ANY version where skulks werent the most optimal unit to chew rts down. Mainly cause there has never been that massive amount of higher lifeforms to go around, and even when there have, they were more optimal to used to slow marines down near pg's/rine base or where ever they reside.

But sure, lets ignore oppinions(some might say facts) by players who are good at this game, just because we're too stubborn to accept that we might be wrong.

I'm going to point somthing out, Talking about health for killing rts that are eleced is pointless, why? Well simple of the enemy commander is elecing every resnode then he isn't give out shottys or meds or hmg, All you need to do is have said fades/lerks go rape the enemy base.

lmg vs 2 hive fade with lerk = dead rines

Oh and skulks killing rts = win
Fade killing rts = insane



Christ i signed up in 05 and this is my first post hahahaha

Resflow from 5 nodes and he has shotguns in 15 seconds. Even with low upgrades sgs can fend off a fade until the res advantage really starts making the difference. You can't really eliminate the base unless the sg rushes out from the base. So you're just attacking, maybe killing a marine or two and fleeing for healing while the marines have a good resflow. The marines on the field are in trouble since they don't have the upgrades and can't have the weaps getting picked up by respawners. So take the map control and destroy the rts.

You're relying on the enemy not to take advantage of the five minutes worth of time it takes to make those electrified rts worthwhile, when you have no upgrades and no phase gate. The rts could be taken down before they are finished upgrading electricity. An additional two alien rts could be dropped and your team can't do anything about it because of a lack of weapons and upgrades. The hive WILL go up, and life forms with focus or carapace as well as celerity will be striking at your base covered by umbra.

how do you know that?


that is total garbage. a person's skill can not ever be shown on internet forums. you can sit here all day long and talk about your methods and strategies but that does not mean you are actually skilled at the game. here is another analogy you all will hate; if you didnt notice by now, i shoot rifles recreationally. now i can sit here all day long and type about the mechanics of marksmanship and the proper procedures for precision shooting, but that doesnt mean that when i actually go out into the field i shoot a .05" group at 300 yards. so, a person's posts on a message board, while it indeed may demonstrate that they are knowledgeable on the subject, is not a measure of their actual skill at the game. oh, and just because nobody agrees with me, doesnt mean they are right....



that is just stupid. so you think you know everyone who plays the game because you have been playing it for a while?


when i was informed with the data comparison between the skulk and the fade, i had no problem admitting that i was wrong and that i hadnt previously known the information...

again, i am taken aback at everyone's shallow reading comprehension. for the 15th time, my posts were only a hypothetical comparison; i never tried to rally that the fades should attack RTs and the skulks shouldnt. it was a comparison between which lifeform would do a more efficient job and that is it. i dont understand how to make it any more clearer. its like people are only reading half of my posts.... its really annoying and i dont frankly feel like arguing about it anymore. you want to think im a new player? fine. its not a big deal i am unable to care anymore

It can be if you understand the post, how the game works, how the post conflicts/doesnt conflict the game. Be it may, im not talking the skill in the sense of that after reading someones post i know how good they can aim, react to skulk biting their ###### off. Im talking about their comprehension of how the game works, and how what they write about really goes on the world of ns. In example of if a NSplayer would complain that MT sucks cause you cannot kill anything with it, i'd say that his personal skill was terrible.


That analogy actually is correct, even in my eyes. But when you subjected your analogies with NS, they started to go wrong quite steadily, i wonder why that is. Maybe you should stick to shooting with your rifles?



Figured this would need some clarification, to you atleast. Since the start of my competitive NS career, i quite frequently, not only played the game on scrims but pubs aswell. And since i have a somewhat good memory i can remember quite well if someone plays the game alongside me, better than the other players on the server. This was practically pretty simple to do when dealing with such small scene as NS had. Racking up few gigs of competitive demos on my HD before finally getting rid of them helped abit. Unlike others, i actually like to watch others play this game, and try to learn from them at the same time if possible.


I never thought you were a new player, cause i instantly noticed your forum handle was made 5 years ago. But the stuff you write about, is just so obscene, which people like me(i guess?) have a hard time standing for. I apologize if i've missed the part where you said something along the lines of "fades shouldnt be killing RT's pretty much ever.", but if not so. Then i just wish i never have to play on the same server alongside with players like you.


** edit **

seems you cannot use multiple copies of 'quote' Snipestar '12387128037120' - alike in one reply.

nt

The great thing about this topic is that players get an alternative source of res if they're having trouble killing marines.

If you are hinting that the topic has gone off-track, then I agree with you and you might start with replying with a suggestion to this:

[quote]It can be if you understand the post, how the game works, how the post conflicts/doesnt conflict the game. Be it may, im not talking the skill in the sense of that after reading someones post i know how good they can aim, react to skulk biting their ###### off. Im talking about their comprehension of how the game works, and how what they write about really goes on the world of ns. In example of if a NSplayer would complain that MT sucks cause you cannot kill anything with it, i'd say that his personal skill was terrible.[/quote]
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thats what i meant when i used the rifle analogy-- a person's posts will show that they do/dont understand the mechanics of gameplay; it demonstrates what tactics they use, etc etc. it does NOT demonstrate how efficient/skillful they are at actually applying these tactics in the game. but i understand where you are going.


[quote]That analogy actually is correct, even in my eyes. But when you subjected your analogies with NS, they started to go wrong quite steadily, i wonder why that is. Maybe you should stick to shooting with your rifles?[/quote]
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actually the analogies used by both me and haze were both pretty on point... and as far as sticking to just shooting rifles, well... agreed


[quote]Figured this would need some clarification, to you atleast. Since the start of my competitive NS career, i quite frequently, not only played the game on scrims but pubs aswell. And since i have a somewhat good memory i can remember quite well if someone plays the game alongside me, better than the other players on the server. This was practically pretty simple to do when dealing with such small scene as NS had. Racking up few gigs of competitive demos on my HD before finally getting rid of them helped abit. Unlike others, i actually like to watch others play this game, and try to learn from them at the same time if possible.[/quote]
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the way you worded it was very vague (i.e. i pretty much know everyone who plays the game)


I never thought you were a new player, cause i instantly noticed your forum handle was made 5 years ago. But the stuff you write about, is just so obscene, which people like me(i guess?) have a hard time standing for. I apologize if i've missed the part where you said something along the lines of "fades shouldnt be killing RT's pretty much ever.", but if not so. Then i just wish i never have to play on the same server alongside with players like you.[/quote]
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lol obscene huh the new player comment wasnt directed towards you...

as far as not playing alongside me, so be it, i could care less. i like to think i am actually very enjoyable to play with- i do everything i can to encourage the teammates to work together, and i have no problem following the commander's orders, even if i disagree with them, as long as he isnt mentally retarded. so if you see me in a server, then feel free to leave- you wont be hurting my feelings...


[quote]seems you cannot use multiple copies of 'quote' Snipestar '12387128037120' - alike in one reply. [/quote]
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yeah i have no idea what the heck is wrong with using multiple quotes, i edited the post to make it a bit easier to follow

I still don't get why biting rts is always boring. Sure it can be boring, ranking up 39 frags as a fade against LMG is also boring. Also no brains included.

Prefer to look at what aint boring.. that rine trying to save there RT. the challange of doing the 'round around the res tower' with the new hitboxes. Constant tention to keep all entrances to said restower in view for possible ambushes.

I hardly have 'nothing' to do when eating nodes.

I agree, it's not that boring.
I think it's rather a problem with players not realizing that it is necessary to kill the marines' rts like church said.
It's same with players running in straight lines towards marines as skulk again and again until some day they learn to ambush, to bunnyhop or to take advantage of a situation.

SnipeStar, lets try this example: Your team is swimming in res, and has 7 Fades and 1 Skulk. Who is going to best at attacking an RT right now? Probably a Fade, because even though the Skulk still does more damage than the Fade, the Fade is much more likely to survive a counterattack by marine recappers.

HOWEVER--That situation does not happen very often, because if you have 7 Fades up the game should be over already anyway. Much more common is this situation: Your team has 7 Skulks and 1 Fade. Who should be attacking the RT now? The Skulk. Every. Single. Time.

Yes, the Fade could probably kill the RT too, and would only take a few seconds longer to do it. However, while the Fade and Skulk are approximately equally effective at killing that RT, that lone Fade is 10 times as effective at killing the marines that are busy doing something else that you don't want them too. If the Fade is killing the RT, doing the same job that the Skulk could be doing for him, that means you have to rely on nothing but skulks to contain marine expansion on the rest of the map. Is there a possibility they might succeed at that job even without you? Sure, but your overall chances of success are FAR better if the Fade is doing what he does best (kill marines) instead of something that hes really no better than a skulk at (kill RTs).

Even if the marines start electrifying nodes, you still NEED that Fade fighing marines, not RTs. Use gorges and skulks, which are far cheaper, to kill the elec nodes. If you manage to get 2 or 3 Fades up at the same time, THEN maybe you can spare one to attack elec nodes, so long as you still have 1 or 2 still fighting marines.

If thats not enough to convince you, then I'll fall back on agreeing with Tomekki and Ots and everyone that you've dismissed as being terrible players who can't tell how good you are by how much experience you have. But I suppose you can tell how good they are?

I can't speak for others, but as a former clanner (only an Omega clanner back when NS was in CAL), I myself stop to try to destroy every alien node I see. I think virtually any clanner worth his/her salt would know that not killing any alien RTs within the first 2-3 minutes means death. And when I've played in pubs, I see that more often than not clanners will spend time killing an RT unless of course there is a newbie who can knife the node, in which case the newbie kills the node, and the clanner will shoot.

But you know, maybe a helpful tooltip that says, "Killing enemy resource nodes is important!" will help people remember to kill nodes. And commanders/expeirenced alien players should tell their team that every single round.

RTs not being killed is a problem with the players, not the game. If not losing the game isn't enough motivation for people to kill RTs, I don't know what is.

FINALLY someone gets it.

my whole purpose in this thread was to compare which lifeforms would ideally be best for the job in x situation, and then in y situation. seriously, thanks for actually reading and understanding....

no no no dont put words in my mouth. i never accused anyone of being a terrible player....... i do not judge a person's skill based on what they post on an online message board; my judgement comes in the field...

this is probably the most on point post of the whole topic

Fades to the same damage per second that the skulk does to structures, lerks do less. Yes, if you have 2-3 onos on the team it's thier job to take down RT's rather then the skulks, but that only happens in the late late game. Skulks suck at killing marines compared to fades and lerks, which can acctually attack marines offensively, not just abstractly in surprise situations. Using fades and lerks for anything but killing marines is wasteful. Someone has to do the crappy job of taking down nodes, and since the skulk is the most useless at everything else, that becomes their job.

Skulks aren't "ideally designed for killing marines". It's the other way around. You're read on the classes roles is totally off center.

I think gorges should hit rts with spit, they will have something to do in between waiting for res.

A critical variable that i think a lot of people are forgetting about here, is location.

Everything in NS is about location, and its derivatives (distance, time, walk times, siege ranges, rt control, etc etc).

And before i get on to my real point in this post, i want to remind everyone that i'm mostly only talking about the 2 hive fade hitting rts... the one hive fade is FAR worse at the job (but can still do it for sure).


But basically, fades can be around the map a hell of a lot more. If the hive is Vent (in hera), the fades can run around arch-hera-holo-northern nodes with far more ease than skulks, simply because they can deal with any defenders or counter attacks. A skulk hitting hera or holo is a sitting duck, whereas a fade can likely kill anything coming at him.

In these areas, if there are no skulks nearby and no extreme pressure in the other areas of the map, a fade is already doing his job by patrolling these areas; hes holding the far half of the map. When there's quiet, he can easily take out an rt or two, rather than excessively patrolling, or going to the areas near the hives that are already swarming with aliens.

When a fade isnt absolutely required anywhere, then he can certainly help his team by killing rts, and much moreso when there arent skulks around to kill them instead.

A lot of players just kill things, they don't connect "not killing rts now" with "losing the game".

This gives those players a reason to kill rt's, for the benefit of their whole team.

the whole reasoning for me stating this was because of the attributes i mentioned-- the ability to wallwalk/hide on the ceiling, the very small target silhouette, the speed at which it can attack, and the overall shock value present during a correctly executed ambush with it. like i previously mentioned, how do those attributes help it attack structures?? yes, the wallwalk will help it gain access to any RT location on the map, but again, what about the actual destruction of the structure itself?

seems to me that skulks are not only designed for killing (lone/small groups of) marines, but arent really meant for anything else- like i said all the com has to do is elec the tower, and the skulk is left completely inept at the task without help. i would use a gorge over a skulk to destroy the rt.


why does it matter how the skulk is used to attack? does the method employed really matter more than the outcome?? i see so many people running aimlessly around the map bunnyhopping around until they have contact, and you know what? they almost never win in a firefight. i use the wait/ambush tactics, and surprisingly i am usually more successful than not. if i get the drop on a marine then i guarantee 9 out of 10 times i will win. so you dont agree with or like my tactics? then dont use them, but dont tell me that they arent designed for this kind of combat, and dont tell me that they dont work. the proof is in the pudding for this one....

What starts to happen when i do this, is that marines start to lose focus. they start becoming fearful when they suspect i could be watching.... ive seen it go so far that eventually some will start ignoring their commander and just make it their sole goal to run around the map to hunt me down. when the marines start chasing me around the map, then they are not doing things around the map that are actually important, like capping nodes, destroying alien RTs, locking down hives, etc etc. you can already see the repercussions from this type of behavior. (ill say right now that this is not too common; i generally see it with what i call "poor players" [i.e. players who put their own personal goals before that of the commander/team] and it is really sad to see)

another important effect ive noticed from this, is that after a few ambushes they will bug their commander to get MT. so there goes 35 res to MT, instead of using it for something the marines may need more, like weapon or armor 2 for example. whats funny about MT once they get it, is that even though it will give you away unless you are VERY careful, you can actually use it against them. when you manage to get in a good ambush spot and sit still there, you no longer show up on their HUD. so when the marines come by you, they are not only completely unaware you are there, but they are extremely careless because they think nothing is in the area. and then you get a free tasty meal, and some very upset marines...

so tell me now-- with the skulk used in this manner, how does the skulk "suck" at killing marines? what the skulk sucks at is head-on kamikaze style attacks, and attacking groups of 3+ marines. usually, it is not the lifeform itself that sucks at killing the marines, but the player at the computer that sucks at using the skulk to do so.

i dont want you to agree with me, but i want you to really see where im coming from on this. im not just spewing crap out of my mouth, there is logic behind the way i think. wrong or right is irrelevant- how you use each lifeform ultimately doesnt matter as long as you help your team achieve victory.


i agree that based on the idea that the other lifeforms are needed in more important tasks like eating marines, it boils down to this, but i still think the skulk is better off eating marines than chomping structures. i think every lifeform is better off attacking marines (except for gorges, but they have the builder task which is inflexibly important) but the other lifeforms are generally better at attacking the marines, so the skulk is stuck with the short straw.


i think stix is really hitting the nail on the head with this one. one factor i have tried to emphasize, is the situation, and location plays a major part of the strategy game-- the different areas of each map will determine who is best doing what, and even the overall map itself can influence this. people seem to keep hinting that the role of each lifeform is static and definitive-- but in reality shouldnt location and other situational factors determine this??

Bad thing is.. me and a buddy gorge actually HAD to spit RTs down in a match last weeks since noone bit them.

i dont mind chewing on a res node when i know i have the time to do so-- i just dont make it priority. what i like to do is chew on a RT until it has really low health-- then i hide. when it starts getting low the com will send a marine or so to go weld it so they dont lose it. they will look around for a second and when they think they are alone they will start to weld it. i wait a few seconds, then i attack... after they are dead, i quickly finish the tower off and head elsewhere on the map (or sometimes, if its an important node, ill wait for them to drop another and let them build it halfway and then strike). if and when i decide to change lifeforms, then the tactics change, but this is how i like to use the skulk, and i frankly dont see anything wrong with it because it works for me.

SnipeStar: I'd actually put it the other way around. The bottom line of NS is chewing marine res nodes. However to be able to do that and not get overrun you will have to sacrifice manpower to delay marines advancing on the map. Killing a marine gives you 1-3 res and delay the marines slightly, while risking valuable time if you die. Basically if the marines aren't pushing anywhere important, then who gives a f about them?

This leads into what someone I played with briefly used to call "wave chewing" or something, where basically every time you beat back the main force of the marines the entire alien team gets on nodes (including fades, excluding lerk who'll try to keep up spore pressure), preferrably the nodes in the most contested areas.

The greatest mistake I see many teams make when it comes to RT pressure in a normal 6v6 game is that they do not take advantage of opportunities to rush down a helluva lot of marine rts, and opt to pressure MS where most of the marines will be respawning. If that isn't a waste of time and resources I don't know what is.

[Edit] Of course I need to point out that this doesn't override the importance of the skulk as the main RT hitter. What I mentioned above was sort of the theoretical bottom line when it comes to rt pressure, but in reality there are few times the entire alien team is freed up to do this. The vast majority of the time spent playing a round you can only afford a single or two units hitting nodes because of the effective pressure marines should apply. When this is the case, what's been said before in this topic definately holds true (excluding post hive two vs jp tech).

i see. i'll give it some thought, right now im headed off to the bar for some drinks

ill be back later with something insightful (hopefully )

[edit now that im drunk ]



im having a problem identifying the problem. so you kill a handful of marines, then chew on their nodes. so what is the issue... if you chew on their nodes without killing them first, then like i mentioned in an earlier post, you are an easy target/kill as you chew undefended on one of their nodes. if you kill them first, then you know that while you chew on their nodes they have to respawn and be re-equiped before they can retaliate-- in that time, you can destroy at least 1 node (more than 1 if you have more skulks employing the same tactics). im just failing to see the problem with this tactic.

you fail. last time i got home ###### (last tuesday) i couldnt even type a whole sentence, i had to resort to copypasting beatles lyrics

LOL

well i didnt get ishfaced at the bar, because i had work at 7am so i drank moderately. but this wont be the case tonight

I say yes Skulks should be used to bite nodes.
I also agree with the tactic snipestar employs, Skulks are very useful in that respect over face-to-face battles.

MY OPINION: skulks=best life form because they are free, have no evolve time, and can be effective against anything except HA, elec and large groups. HA's and large groups can be solved by skulking in groups of 2.

Random fact: a group of foxes is called a skulk.

EDIT: by group of foxes I mean the collective noun.

i love this idea

As for the whole argument about who should be killing res nodes, skulks should be on nodes as much as possible simply because all other higher life forms should be going after marines. In most sitations, they will be too busy trying to keep the rines at bay and the only lifeforms suitable for dealing with res in an efficient and timely manner are skulks since they are expendable. I've been in one too many pubs where aliens don't do jack shieeeet to the marines nodes and then they get trained over by HAs and/or JPs and tons of big guns.

BILEBOMB CHAMBER.

I think Gorges should push E on a Marine res node. A bile Det pack should spawn, take X amount of time to be placed, hum time should be equal to the time it takes a elec node to zap the gorge to death with out third hive or carapace/regen. In which case if its a elec node it should require ether two gorges *one healing or DC's / third hive. in which case if the gorge gets interupted, killed or has to stop and say heal a fello alien his bile det pack timer resets and he has to start palcement all over again. Once placed the muccus bomb begins fireing off bile bomb exsplsions, which raipidly kill the res node, the time it takes to kill a node should be no faster than a non adrenalined none mc'ed gorge bile bombing, at which points the only way for rines to remove said device is via a incindary device like a gl grenade or a hand grenade exsplosion with in the radius, like takeing out web, prahaps welder also.

The momment the gorge first clicks E, the Marines are informed node under attack until ether its intrupted or the node is taken out. Also being a sort of DoT effect, rines will be required to keep their nades handy for res node cleansing even if the gorge is their or isnt. The bile exsplsion on the node could also effect rine armor if they are silly enough to go near it note the weld removeal.

The whole effect over time is. If your rine team Is silly enough, not fast enough, not paying attention and so on. Why shouldnt a gorge beable to take out your res node, with out fear of being zaped to death, or with out haveing the feeling of watching paint dry.

I will be reposting this in its own topic, The other thing i think that can be done is give RFNK, Res For Node Killing.
Three res per node a Marine takes out, 3 res per node for the alien that takes a node out, but 5 res for gorge if he drops a node, obiously if the idea above is implimented 3 res for groge also.