Scan beats sensory. It is not only the counter to it, but it is the complete counter to it.

So what if we nerf scan, or the obs' ability to scan somehow?


Idea:

Obs is still 15 res, and comes with 40 energy. But it has a max of 40 energy.

Alongside the MT and PG upgrades, there is a 'Energy Storage Upgrade', for 5 res, which boosts the max energy up to 100. It does not give you more energy, it simply lets the obs fill past the 40 mark. The energy recharge rate remains the same as the current value throughout.

*********************

This would be a small nerf, but a nerf nonetheless. Comms could still scan. But, i find that in the current version, you scan a bit, then you dont need to for awhile; and it builds up. Usually, all the way to full by the time you need it again.

This would nerf that situation. Many commanders would fork over the measly 5 res, knowing the true power of scans when they're needed. Multiple obs would still be viable, and heck, i'd get the Energy Storage upgrade for them too.

With the energy recharge rate not changing, commanders would still have an adequate scanning power with one obs, for general use. Even against SCs, a comm could get away with one obs, or two that didn't have the upgrade. Siegeing could also be done on two obs' without the upgrade.

But, smart comms would likely invest that extra bit for the extra storage capability, or comms who want the extra potential scans against an SC enemy, or comms simply wanting to maximize their available resources.

Once I came up with this idea and thought it through, it did seem like a full obs has too much scanning power, especially given that most games go for long periods without the need for scans, hence filling them up. This ability would still be available, it just wouldnt be the default state of the obs.

Thoughts?

are you freakin' kidding?

how would you possibly counter early to mid game SC if your obs is capped at 40 energy? it's bad enough that playing against SC forces you to drop an early obs and hold off on pg tech, but with this idea you'd be required to drop 2 / pump res into one.

i dont know how other comms play but when i do my obs rarely has more than 20 energy in them at a time unless im prepping for a siege, and aliens have never complained about imbalanced scans.

Dumb.

if you're playing against SC, yeah, good comms are constantly using their scans.

What about when you're pubbing and its a crap comm? Those ones who never scan? You can still pull off a win easily enough, the marines just have to cover each other. Grenades and MT helps.

With a default cap at 40, scans would still be used, but, on default, it would turn into the mid-range between a good current comm (using the full amount of scans) and a bad current comm (who doesnt scan). A good current comm = absolute win against SC first.


And keep in mind, we're really only talking about 5 res to upgrade the obs back to full capacity. I chose this small amount of res for the upgrade so that its easy to keep the current obs' abilities. But, by default, it will have the 40 cap.

So, unretarded comms will get the extra storage upgrade immediately if they're against SC. Most good comms will get it regardless, knowing its full utility, especially with the almost inevitability of a siege at some point.

I don't think obs need any nerf. SC already blocks MT and if kharaa can lame the map the comm should waste 20 res a obs for scans.

play SC first against a decent comm. He'll get an early obs and scan right critical rooms right as marines enter, and probably get a second obs either in base or in a forward location within minutes. Then, he'll scan even more. SC gets ruined by this.

And, frankly, the situation i just described wouldn't be affected by this proposed nerf at all; in such a case, the scan number wouldnt go past 40, likely.

Comms could still counter SC, but not to the point of the ridiculous easyness that happens when the obs have been built up with energy.

the power in SC is not in cloaking. it is in making the marines spend resources to counter cloaking.

besides, spending 5 res on enlarging the power pool in an obs would probably not be done until after phase tech is completed. most comms usually have phase tech up about the time the second hive is dropped, meaning that when the second hive is dropped the obs would have only 40 energy, leaving almost no energy to seige.

what observatories do need though is a scan-like feature that has infinant energy and only works on uncloaked structures, not aliens. id like to be able to find the alien structures for once without technically exploiting.(WPs and sound)

Blah, blah, whine, whine.

I say Stixes idea is worth a shot, because if aliens were to go sensory, marines could and should tech against that. Electrification is bad enough. I don't see many servers using sensory, so perhaps this would encourage them to do so.

And to those who say unbalance or whatever, remember, blink wasn't fixed in a day. Of course when an idea is first implemented, it will go through revisions.

Can't you people see that SC is balanced as it is ?

Got an idea to nerf the obs:
Obs stop the aliens to cloack more (stop the blue bar to go up) instead of uncloacking.

and try playing against good cloaked skulks. they'll know not to cloak in the obvious rooms- i.e. tanith's CAT and cargo. instead they'll choose places of no real significance- like the L-turn that connects dbl res to CAT, or the steps from CAT to cargo.

if a com drops 2 obs early game the marines willl be handicapped by the time the focus fade comes into play.

im of the opinion that good ns teams (nL, sauna, reflect?) could be unstopable if they practised using sc properly. you can always repel the first marine press with sc, and a res rush combined with using SoF to kill cappers buys the aliens enough time to get the 2nd hive and fade up.

oh and i nearly went 2 posts in an SC thread without complaining about the chamber. sc lowers the skill needed to win. moving around silently and invisibly, having 1 hit kills, knowing the location of the marines. sadface. i am so grateful that few teams use sc first.

and forget public play, none of them know how to play the game, a couple of exceptions aside.

Ah, yes, the fatheaded clanner emerges.

Go click refresh all on your server list. Tell me how many of these "magical" 6v6 games are going on. I play pubs because they aren't jerks and whine about somebody who isn't skilled and instead play with anybody who joins in.

I also don't care about how some of the dying NS teams or whatever could handle this or not. CAL is dead. Competitive forums here are a waste of bandwidth. Your servers don't exist. If some team or another just get too good, then again, changes can be made.

Lowering the skill to play the game? Again, all you clanners just want NS to turn into CS. Go to CS then, or go play all the clones that play just like that or even CO. NS has some strategy to the game and strategy, as chess demonstrates, is not about quick-reflex actions or twitch-skills. It's about thought, not execution. That's why you don't need to be "skilled" physically to build a RT, weld a guy or to simply drop a IP.

Forget pub play? Perhaps you haven't noticed that the comp scene is all but dead.

the comp scene isnt dead. you obviously have NO idea what you are talking about.

whether the competative scene is dead or not, it doesnt change the fact that ns is balanced for and around competative play.

NS IS about both execution and strategy, not exclusively one or the other.

looks to me like you are just some ###### off pubber looking for a chance to flame a veteran because you dont have the skill to play competatively. go back to G4B2S kid.

Croozn for a broozn!

Competitive play requires more "thought" than pub play, sorry to break your bubble. There's two reasons why competitive players dominate pubs:

1. raw skill
2. out-thinking the pub-nubs (ie. you)

(skulks r weak amirite¿)

Ah, go play some CS alright? The most significant change in 3.2, if you haven't noticed is the fade's blink. So sorry to burst YOUR bubble, but this made fading easier, therefore lowering the skill required to fade.

I don't give a sh*t about execution in this thread. However, what matters is the clanners will OUT-THINK the pubbers EVEN IF their raw skill is terrible. That of course leads to winning games.

And of course since you are a pubber, I'll forever look down on your NS smarts, not your skill.

U2DuMb amirite¿

SURVIVOR OUTWIT, OUTPLAY, OUTLAST.

That's odd. It seems I've been spending 2-3 hours everynight for the past week in my imagination. Since Smood says competitive play is dead, it must be true.

Actually, it didn't. It made mediocre fading easier, and top-level fading harder. It flattened the skill curve a bit (which was previously very steep).

if aliens go sc at the start of the game then the first few minutes are exceptionally crucial, especially for the marines. they are allowed little room for mistakes because they will die easier and must use their limited resources on stuff they normally would not (early obs as well as an armslab, welders), which means alien rts might not go down and marine rts might not go up. and if that happens marines lose. scanning is powerful, but so is the sensory chamber. i really dont think this change is necessary because it would most likely either be highly insignificant and useless, or completely break the marine game should aliens go sc first. obviously there is a middle ground between these two alternatives but seeing as the suggestion doesnt really add any depth into the game, doesnt balance it (it is balanced now!) or make it more enjoyable for anyone. if you find yourself getting constantly uncloaked by scan, use your brains and think up better spots to camp cloaked in, the comms scanning capabilities are very limited in the early game.

to sum up: marines are at a clear disadvantage when faced with an organised team of sc aliens, therefore a nerf like this isnt necessary.

ps: i think weve all seen enough of smood's ramblings on these forums already? its getting tiresome

Before this thread gets locked BTUGOI, I'd like to say the original idea sounds interesting.

Another option would perhaps be to make the rate at which energy returns slower until you pay the 5 res.

i think the obs is fine.

well, since i should include arguments to support this i should write more...
sieges often need all the energy the obs has, because:

- you cant afford enough sieges
- you have 1 or more gorges healing
- a well placed dc heals the hive
- the marines cant go into the hive because aliens are putting hard pressure on the marines who are low on res and cant afford weapons, sieges which directly leads us to point 1 again

@SmoodCroozn
Hello?! What's your problem with clanners? Cant you stand they are better than you? We are just mentioning our opinion about a topic such as you do (we want to have fun with ns, too) and your only argument is that the clan scene is dead, your profession in being wrong is proven by this comment and therefore lowers your credibility which leads us to post answers which dont suite your point of view because your point is obviously wrong or partly wrong. Changes in NS are made in order to match public AND clan gameplay, why else should there be something like mp_tournamentmode? because its not meant to be for tournaments as well?

Clan games require more skill, tactics and experience than most of the public games need (try to prove me wrong). However, i like public, too (since i play it so often)!

I agree it did make fading easier but I don't think it made top level fading any harder. It's not like fast_switch 1 is disabled.

I just reviewed the changelog and the only thing you could be referring to is the blink RoF. I don't think the lowering made top level blinking any harder, just that players needed to relearn their timing so it seems harder.

I disagree.. I find the RoF change on blink a huge nerf. It does matter. BEcause of it blink feels slow and laggy.

SC is still crap even with this change. The reason we don't use SC, is because you aren't going to live once the level 3 HMG jps come rolling in later. You need the carapace to live from that.

And the problem with this is that they thought hive 2 aliens 3.1 was too strong. But because they had hive armor, they could afford to go SC - MC - DC. But when you removed that, you can't stand against level 3 HMG with no hive armor. So again, they have solidified the chamber order.

Sarisel, the argument isn't that the clan scene is dead. If you go look at the "OMG CARAPACE IS RAGGED" thread, the only argument that Mak puts up is he "FEELS" that it's rigged. Everyone is telling him that it's fine because marines win (in fact, they do this quite frequently), yet he can't bring a better argument. I hate to generalize, but clanners are selfish, simple-minded people who fail to see beyond the perspectives of themselves. Somehow, some foolish 6v6 games mean a lot more than NS's lifeline, the pubs. They post ridiculous ideas such as implying carapace is rigged when alien armor actually gets weaker in 3.2, thanks to no hive armor. And you're 16 days late.

So the point here is that I don't see SC being used even with your suggestions, because Level 3 HMGs rip through anything without carapace, which forces aliens to use the MC DC order in order to stand up to that threat.

sure level 3 hmgs will tear up any mediocre fade without carapace but a good fade will be smart enough to not charge head on into 5 HMGs like a retard.

The reason SCs aren't used first more often has nothing to do with lvl 3 HMGs later on, it's got to do with not having adrenaline for gorge healing and an MC in the building hive to get hive healing faster during the second hive push.

Also, carapace was always annoying as crap. Having fades do ridiculous things such as blinking into three shotgunners and live over and over is just bad game play, nothing else. Screw the balance arguments, it being stupid is reason enough.

But that's the only thing that can make it past those three shotgunners, at least if they have jps. Skulks, lerks get slaughtered, onoses get baited and chased... You can't expect a fade to sit still while marine-jps are at west core and sieging cc.

You're supposed to cooperate with your team. There's no reason a fade should be able to attack three JP SGs alone.

Fades should live against 3 shotgunners...if the lerk is there to umbra and then there are leaping skulks flying around the distract marines.

This is exactly what ive been getting at when i talk about the need to boost the SC first game, to balance out the 3 chambers. MCs give gorges extra healing energy, DCs directly heal the hive (and massively), but SCs do absolutely nothing for hive heal.

There are dozens of ways to boost SCs in this case, but they must either directly boost SCs, directly nerf the marine's ability to siege against SCs, or a mixture of both.

Suggestions so far:
-swap spit and heal, so focus heal will offer far more healing ability
-make SCs lower the lifespan of scans within their radius, therefore offering less siege shots per scan
-make SC's +useable (every X amount of seconds) to recloak things within their radius


..i think there are one or two more. But these ones so far are pretty serious options to consider.

smood, i ****ing love you dude. i have never met you, i hopefully never will, yet you constantly manage to make laugh in real life.

1. if you're up against JPers, SC (focus) is the first chamber you'd want.
2. lvl 3 JP+HMG against 1 chambered aliens? no chamber/player combination is going to make a 1-hive comeback against that. poor example to flame SC.
3. you think carapace is the way for a fade to defeat a level 3 JP+HMGer? we need civ in this thread, stat, to tell us how many seconds it takes for a lvl 3 HMGer to frag a cara fade. factor in no celerity making him super easy to hit, and no focus meaning a jetpacker with meds shouldn't die to a fade. at least with focus you can camp corners to try and slash him, and hope you get lucky enough with a follow-up slash. with celerity you can out-run him.

I don't see what's wrong with cs?i guess, probably when you tryed to play it you got owned by someone better(probably a clanner LOL), now you're getting owned in ns(by "clanners") and whining from left to the right... fade blinking is a lot easier but if you compare pub fade to a competitive one there is still huge diffrence.
About sc, it's oke as it is now.