There have been at least two threads about the major imbalance problem recently in NS comming down to skulks needing to be stronger. One of which was locked, the other just got started.

I've played those games. And honestly, I don't think it's actually the skulk that is the problem. It's the gorge.

Just hear me out please and think about it. In both NS and combat, but especially in NS. The skulk is the bottem tier anti-marine lifeform. Quite deadly but dies easily. Yes finding a way to modify a marine movement and/or increase base speed are ok ideas, reducing hitbox size and adding extra HP or AP are very bad ideas.

But in my mind... Who is the healer? Who is supposed to make the structures for the aliens? Who creates the upgrades for the aliens? And in combat, what is the class which heals the hive and teammates?

The gorge.

The biggest problem that I have observed in servers running NS maps is that people don't rush to build RTs on aliens the same way marines rush to get RTs up quickly. The result is that aliens always start out behind unless the teams are stacked. Why don't people go gorge more? Simply because for most people, they find gorge boring and unrewarding. Nobody says thank you for building. And complaining at the end of the game about what should have been is usless. It's worse when you consider that your are so weak that a mere two basic LMG marines (or one marine if he has a shotgun, HMG, or even a GL! Let alone HA and JP!!!) will kill you. So you die easy, you wait forever for res because the rest of the team isn't interested in playing that class. (and I do like playing gorge, but hate going "get RTs please" each game)

So what if a skulk isn't able to solo a competent shotgunner? A shotgun isn't free. Neither is a gorge though. In fact they are both 10 res. Look, let's take a RPG for a sec as an example. You always try to party with a healer yes? Same should be true with the alien healer class. When I gorge I always try to team up with a lerk, fade, or onos. They rampage, get really injured, I heal, and they are ready to go again before marines have had time to recover. Even if eventually the marines get us with the force of the whole team. We have wasted their time and labor resources to a signifigant degree. But really this depends on whether or not they come and kill me. And as I said, gorges die REALLY easy if you are not careful. Oh yeah, duh that's the gorge again...

short'n simple: Boost the gorge instead of the skulk. If that isn't enough, boost the skulk.
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As I always say, "gorges win games." I'd be open to any suggestions in this thread to make gorging more fun. It's kind of hard to explain, but do you see how a stronger gorge would make both CO and espeically NS better for skulks? (and whole team really) How do you make gorge more fun? I think people like to build as gorge. I know I do. I also like to play the healer class in game. How can you make that more fun?

Others ideas I like:
Gorges pull resources from a seperate pool
Swap the spit and healspray abilities (would love to have this, seriously what if any draw back is there?)
Gorges have a more effective redemption than any other class (from their better "relationship" with hive)

If I gorge, I would stay as skulk longer. I feel I'm better off waiting for 5 res and lerking to capture territory, then hoping no marine will come my way and slash my rt.

Your first assumption is that aliens need a boost, but you haven't qualified what server size you are talking about. The evidence suggests that at games of less than 20 players the games are reasonably balanced, and if anything, it is aliens who have the upper hand, even with the removal of hive2 armour.

So, I can only presume you are talking about really large games, and if you are then this suggestion is pointless as we are only going to tweak parameters that do not effect smaller games. The values we are going to tweak will scale with game size.

Also, in 3.1 we did indeed boost the gorge significantly by giving it the ability to self-heal. The gorge is currently a lot stronger than it has ever been in the history of NS, and still most people shun the class.

For the 3.2.x patches there will be no changes like you have described. You're free to post your suggestions for consideration for future versions, but don't expect any traction on them for now.

The easiest way to get people to play gorge is to make it more fun Puzl. At the moment, it's a lot of sitting around waiting.

Give gorges a slight boost to res generation, or give them a big boost into a pool that is ONLY usable for building. Perhaps, even, have gorges gain resources as they healspray other creatures / structures to heal them. This makes sense, as the bacterium would be "rewarding" them for helping another creature.

How about making the Gorge slightly cheaper? That way, people won't fear Gorging and wasting as much res if they're only gorging to make a tower, and then go back skulk?

Since skulks costs 2 res... Mabye Gorges can cost 8 instead of a solid 10?

I'm sure if it's slightly cheaper, more people would Gorge instead of horde... I know I would.

Gorges are worth as much as a shotgun, but if a marine makes a mistake and dies with it, another can always recover it. Not really with a Gorge, a mistake and you die, and the gorge is gone for good.

Some logic claims that because of this, Gorges should cost less. Logic of balance claims that because of what a Gorge is capable of, it should cost what it costs.

However, I think a good balance would be to cheapen it slightly, probably to 8(Because gestating Skulk costs 2). That way, making it cheaper, even by a little, can change the mindset of some players, and more gorges will make the scene. A dying Gorge still remains a waste, but not so much a big one. Instead of 20 res total for re-gorging, it'll only be 16, and that is a small, but significant in the early game, difference.

One suggestion I have that probably won't happen due to NS2.

I still don't see what is wrong with finding ways to make gorges more fun... There is definitely a problem if the general population finds gorging boring, while they are ok with building RTs and structures as marine.

And I've never heard a good reason why healspray and spit can't be swapped. It does not affect Combat. It helps create a remote possibility of comebacks in Classic, but only if the comm has never heard of scan (or can't scan). So even then... why not? We've done a lot more changes than that. Plus it might reinforce the idea to people that gorges are healers first, not spitting battle gorges.

Blue Mary I like your idea but I'm afraid a few people will cry hell over it. I find it silly that balancing seems to be fixed in multiples of five. You should be able to fine-tune with full base 10 numeric flexibility -- not just 0, 5, 10, 15, 20, etc... See if you can list the only things in NS that don't cost a multiple of five resources. Go ahead. It's not that hard.

Puzl, *sigh* I'm not trying to say this side is way over/underpowered. I'm saying the reason a lot of people feel that way about skulks is because of the lack of gorges in the early game. The reason people feel games are over so fast and decided in the first few minutes (or seconds), is because gorges can't keep up. Too many res######s. I'm trying to give you insight.

And to stop a debate before it starts (because you indirectly hinted at it again Puzl ), let me say that clan play is vital, yes; but it is founded upon public play. Do not bring that debate up in this thread, now back to the topic.



That's good but try to listen to me. I'm just trying to open your narrow mind, old friend. I'm trying to point out that it may not be the skulk that actually needs the scaling as much as it is in-fact the gorge. Moreover, there IS an issue if the majority of the population thinks gorging is boring. That's a problem you as a leadership in the community need to pay attention to, please.

I doesn't have to be sitting still. I find building stuff kinda repetetive, but battlegorging around and building a rt here and there is fun even in the public games. It takes a short look at the map to figure where the marines are and where you can actually cause dmg without risking yourself stupidly. With public comm medding its quite easy to even rack up some kills instead of just causing annoyance.

I also had this idea in one of the sc threads to make focus gorges need less adrenaline to heal the 2nd (growing) hive in a sc-first situation by switching healspray and spit.
You added some more points and I stongly support this idea.

People like to rambo.
You can't rambo as a gorge.
People don't gorge.

Skulks cost 0 res.

I never rambo as gorge and I don't like to rambo. I like to work as a team -- much more rewarding.

Oh wait does that mean... you are... WRONG?!

Just because you don't like to rambo does not mean that pub fodder doesn't like to rambo.

For many of those people, is it that they don't want to or don't know how to work as a team?