With NS moving over to source with the release of NS 2 (whenever it may be) I got to thinking
Perhaps its time we allowed for higher r_speeds? Newer PC's shouldn't have too much trouble running with the higher speeds and people with older PC's I guess just can't play the map? I'm not trying to be mean but perhaps its time we once again push HL1 past the breaking point.
Thoughts?
Full Version: r_speed limit
As I recall, it's not been a computer issue, its been an HL1 engine performace issue. The Game Engine itself has limitations. The restraints in the NS guidelines, i believe, are there to keep the game engine running at a fairly decent rate.
Source, e.g. NS-Source or NS2 will be a whole new arena, which I'm sure they will hammer out guidelines for them later on.
May need a PT or Dev to confirm all that.
Source, e.g. NS-Source or NS2 will be a whole new arena, which I'm sure they will hammer out guidelines for them later on.
May need a PT or Dev to confirm all that.
On software rendering 800 wpolys is the complete maximum. After that they look like black spaces I think. But to the best of my recollection, NS has never run on software rendering.
On my 2 years old laptop, I only get a noticeable drop in frames when I noclip outside of a complete map and I'm looking at 8000+ wpolys.
I'm pretty certain there would be no major issue with upping the limit. Most official maps go above it in places, especially the commander view.
On my 2 years old laptop, I only get a noticeable drop in frames when I noclip outside of a complete map and I'm looking at 8000+ wpolys.
I'm pretty certain there would be no major issue with upping the limit. Most official maps go above it in places, especially the commander view.
Ive been in 32 player servers running maps with 1k+ player r_speeds and areas with comm r_speeds going over even 2k. I specifically asked if anyone noticed any lag or fps issues, and noone had.
And I run on a 2.6 single core 1gig ram geforce fx 5600. The Supreme Commander demo wont even run, i get a message saying im below the required system specs. So basically my comp is below the current low-end status.
And I run on a 2.6 single core 1gig ram geforce fx 5600. The Supreme Commander demo wont even run, i get a message saying im below the required system specs. So basically my comp is below the current low-end status.
QUOTE(StixNStonz @ Feb 13 2007, 10:54 PM) [snapback]1606230[/snapback]
And I run on a 2.6 single core 1gig ram geforce fx 5600. The Supreme Commander demo wont even run, i get a message saying im below the required system specs. So basically my comp is below the current low-end status.
That's not strictly true. If we take a look at one source (decide for yourself how conclusive it is), the average for AMD processors is still below your spec, but I do agree that the limit should be upped to 900 at least. I doubt any more than 5% run NS in Software mode, and that's being very generous.
I know that directX is not supported by NS. If you run in this mode you will be missing HUD sprites all over the place. Also software mode support, c'mon man that must be a joke. Who here is has a pci 8mb card 
Anyway I think upping them like this:
First person:
on average 800
overall max of 1000
Commander view:
on average 1000
overal maximum 1250
Now lets have someone over here who knows the inner workings of goldsource and break this theory
Anyway I think upping them like this:
First person:
on average 800
overall max of 1000
Commander view:
on average 1000
overal maximum 1250
Now lets have someone over here who knows the inner workings of goldsource and break this theory
OT: aw man! I don't think my computer will have a chance with supreme commander! Damn.
Yeah Kouji I think that sounds like a good upping of the limits. I think the important thing should be that mappers still try to keep things down to the 800 limit. Like driving a car. You roughly obey speed limits. But where you need to get some more detail in a room for it to be perfect you can go for it. Having a room with 2000 wpolys wouldn't be a serious problem.
Another thing to consider is that the wpolys limit affects the construction of maps. Usually removing straight lines of sight, aiding skulks and aliens in general. If you could just map in the directions you wanted and not think of vis, I expect aliens would have a bit of a harder time through the opened up visibility.
Yeah Kouji I think that sounds like a good upping of the limits. I think the important thing should be that mappers still try to keep things down to the 800 limit. Like driving a car. You roughly obey speed limits. But where you need to get some more detail in a room for it to be perfect you can go for it. Having a room with 2000 wpolys wouldn't be a serious problem.
Another thing to consider is that the wpolys limit affects the construction of maps. Usually removing straight lines of sight, aiding skulks and aliens in general. If you could just map in the directions you wanted and not think of vis, I expect aliens would have a bit of a harder time through the opened up visibility.
Not really, I'm thinking about the little details.
Eg, actually using brushes for the little odds and ends that's being done with textures (like how, in incubus, I uses little triangular brushes for the wall supports in the RR instead of letting it stay as a texture)
Eg, actually using brushes for the little odds and ends that's being done with textures (like how, in incubus, I uses little triangular brushes for the wall supports in the RR instead of letting it stay as a texture)
If you drive a car, and you are allowed to drive 80, but get caught with 200, you lose your driving license...
The whole poly thing is so strict because the lag appears when a wall of lame and 10 players are all together in a >1000 wpoly room.
I remember once suffering under a huge turret farm in veil, epolys at about 17000. The graphic card deals with it, but hitting something in there was impossible and if an onos ran inside, he lagged to the first turret, hit it twice and died....
The whole poly thing is so strict because the lag appears when a wall of lame and 10 players are all together in a >1000 wpoly room.
I remember once suffering under a huge turret farm in veil, epolys at about 17000. The graphic card deals with it, but hitting something in there was impossible and if an onos ran inside, he lagged to the first turret, hit it twice and died....
QUOTE(bERt0r @ Feb 14 2007, 09:55 AM) [snapback]1606527[/snapback]
If you drive a car, and you are allowed to drive 80, but get caught with 200, you lose your driving license...
The whole poly thing is so strict because the lag appears when a wall of lame and 10 players are all together in a >1000 wpoly room.
I remember once suffering under a huge turret farm in veil, epolys at about 17000. The graphic card deals with it, but hitting something in there was impossible and if an onos ran inside, he lagged to the first turret, hit it twice and died....
Network lag and rendering have nothing to do with eachother. You can have a low ping and a low framerate or a high ping and a low framerate, and it can make all the difference in the world even though it may still look like a 1900's movie.
Entity polys have little or no effect on your framerate compared to world polys depending on your card, but I've had shabby cards do very well with high e_poly loads. I can recall one CS MvM map that had over 500,000 e_polys and I still had 60-70 fps.
Now w_polys on the other hand kill the game no matter what hardware you run it on. I've run a 2,200 w_poly map (ns_canyon20xx) on a GF6800GT, AMD 64 3700+ and 2 GB of memory and still got shat framerate.
If only valve would release the source to the HL1 renderer, all of these problems could be fixed.
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