Forum Name: EMP_Demon
Number of Players: 19
Number of Wolves: 5
Number of Other: 1-3 active observers
Special Roles: Seer, Psychic, Guardian, Random Vigilante, 2 Lovers
Special Note: No death first night.

Lovers (as described by Mantrid): There are two Lovers. If one of them dies, the other dies immediatly from sadness. Lovers are randomly picked, so it is possible that a wolf and a civilian may be lovers.

Random Vigilante: A random civilian is designated as the Vigilante, without being told. At each night, every civilain will send in a PM as a Vigilante would; either selecting a player to kill, or not killing anyone. Only the chosen Vigilante's PM will be acted on.


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Forum name: Theslan
Players: 18
Wolves 3 + 1 (converted)
Roles: Seer, psychic, guardian, forensic specialist (modified!)
1 Active Spectator
Mini-game: Clue-style mystery.
Mini-game roles: Investigator, clue manipulator, mapmaker.

Explaination of conversion: This is similar to my last host game. The first night is twice as long (2 days). Wolves will be informed early of their roles, and get to choose another player to join them. After the wolves have chosen their victim, all other roles, including the roles to the mini-game will be passed out. At this time, any non-roles will be informed they are human.

Seer, psychic, and guardian are normal.

Forensic specialist (modified): This roles gets to choose if he wants to look at one body per night. He is not forced to look. Every night, wolves get to choose which body they want to spy on. If the forensic specialist and wolves choose the same dead body, the role from the dead body is revealed to both groups. The forensic specialist does not get notified if he was spied on. The wolves do not get to know the role of the forensic specialist.

Now.... the minigame and the roles.

The minigame will be clue style. This means there is a weapon, there is a player, and there is a room. There will be 6 clues,

similar to Freak83's game. There will be global clues, as well as specific clues. At this time, there might be hidden clues in the story for the combination.

Investigator: This is the same as Freak83's version. The role can be for either side.

Clue manipulator: This role is a bit tricky. This role has the ability to change the clue in that specific room. He/she is allowed to remove, add, or replace one word per night, according to what he can change. He isn't allowed to change key words. For instance, if he stumbles on this clue:

"The candlestick is the murderer's weapon."

Notice that the word 'candlestick' is red. The rest of the words are green. He cannot change the red words, but he is allowed to do anything wants with the green words. For instance, here are 2 versions:

- The candlestick is not the murderer's weapon.
- The candlestick is the innocent weapon.

Note that once the clue manipulator finds the clue, he is allowed to change the clue's message again even if he does not find the clue again the room. The change occurs before the other person finds the clue. This role can be on either side.

Mapmaker: This role basically is allowed to see where everyone is in the map. That's right, he has the map that everyone was allowed to see in Freak's game! This means that nobody will be able to see where anyone is at! You will, however, get a message of who was in the same room as you were. This role is also on either side.


Some Q/A, mainly concerning the forensic specialist:
What happens if wolves does not give a name of a dead body to spy upon?
- Wolves do not get a random.org pick a dead body. That night, the wolves are lazy and therefore did not spy on any dead body.

What happens if wolves choose the dead body and kills the specialist on the same night?
- Wolves gets the role of the dead body and kills the specialist.

When does the specialist receives the role of the dead body?
- And the end of the night (beginning of next day).

When the specialist finds a dead body of the role for the mini-game and not for the actual special roles (wolves, seer, etc), does he get informed?
- Yes. The specialist will be informed if the dead person is an investigator, clue manipulator, or mapmaker.

Do other people get to see color clues?
- No. That defeats the purpose if they can see the red/green messages. They only see plaintext.

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I should note that I will not be revealing what the artifact is. However, I will note that it is an active power, one that the person must use, or it does nothing.

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Forum Name: Eternaly_Lost
Players: 16
Wolves: 2 + 2 (Two pick randomly, 1 pick at start (by they wolfs), 1 to be picked at anytime)

This is set up so that wolfs, can have a bit more of an advantage. They start with 3, and at any time, even if they are all dead, one person can be converted to the wolfs. Best left to latter for the wolfs, as if they all get lynch, they can still pick one person to convert, at night.

The person the wolf can covert has one restriction, they can not convert the psychopath, they could convert the seer, the only persons immune to convention are the psychopath and the wizard, as he is a wolf from the start.

A convert will fail if the person is guarded, or if the wolf's target at night is failed to be wolfed, but the wolfs can try again.

Roles:
2 Seer- There is 2 seers, but they have a weakness, they will see each other as wolfs. They will see the psychopath as a human, if seered once, on the second time they will be told that he is the psychopath.

1 Guardian- He is restricted so that he can not guard the same person twice in a row. So if he guards player A he can not guard player A next night.

1 Psychic- He is normal, expect that he always get the maximum number of possible wolfs left. In this case, if the wolfs wait and only have 3, the humans have no way of knowing.

1 Psychopath- He has a few changes, he is immune to one wolfing, and does not have a chance of dieing if he target the same target as the wolfs.

1 Wizard- Slight change, as each day/night cycle passes, he gets a +20% chance per night to reveal himself if he does get wolfed. So at night one it 50%, night 2 is 70%.

5 Roles, + 3 Wolfs = 8, so we have 8 normal humans.

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Please bold your vote for whomever you would like to see host (EMP_Demon, Theslan, or Eternaly_Lost). If one player holds the majority of the votes after a couple of days he'll win. Otherwise, we'll knock off the player with the least votes and keep going until someone has a clear majority.

EMP_Demon's game: Random vigilante seems interesting, it might be worth it for people to try night 1 kills so they can find out if they are the vigilante. If two wolves get picked as lovers, will you be reassigning it (we need a wolf win eventually, that would make it too hard on the wolves)? Also, the two lovers know who each other are, right? (I would assume so, but it doesn't say so in this thread or in the stickied rules thread.)

Theslan's game: Another clue-style game would be fun. Will the clues be in a form where it's actually useful for the Clue Manipulator to change a word? In the example you provided, the only useful thing they could really do is negate the clue, and it looks obvious enough that the clue is being manipulated (unless there will be clues with and without the word "not" or something similar).

Eternaly_Lost's game: "They (the seers) will see the psychopath as a human, if seered once, on the second time they will be told that he is the psychopath." Does this have to be two checks by the same seer, or would it also count if each seer checked them once? About the conversions: you say that the conversion can happen at any time, yet you also say it will fail if the wolf's night target doesn't get wolfed. Does that mean the conversions can only happen at night? I'm guessing if the last wolf dies, then they will be the person to decide on a convert; do they lose the opportunity to convert someone if they pick a player that can't be converted and then they are left with no wolves? What does the wizard see when they check the psychopath (the rules thread only mentions the results for checking a wolf, plain human or human with a role)?

Just to make sure this isn't missed, it's in a new post. This goes to EMP_Demon and Eternaly_Lost (since they will have a varying number of night time deaths). What will happen if the last day starts with two people on different sides? Would the results be affected if the two people are lovers? Does the psychopath get any advantage (in the game I ran, if the psychopath went into the final day with one other person they would win, it seems hard enough for them as it is)?

There will be clues that have the word not in it, and such. In that example, I was just demostrating how the role would be used. The clues won't be that obvious, such as having the word candlestick. Most likely it will be vague enough that with some creativity, the clue manipulator will be able to modify the clue to be authentic.

For instance, here's another clue:

The weapon contains many letters. (In this case, weapon is red, I'm just lazy and don't want to color it right now)

Clue manipulator can change it to:

The weapon contains 8 letters.

1. ) Night one won't make it 100% certain, after all, more than one person might select the same target.


2. ) I probably won't have to...

2 wolves: 5/19 * 4/18 = 5.85%
1 wolf, 1 human: 5/19 * 14/18 * 2 = 40.94%
2 humans: 14/19 * 13/18 = 53.21%
(This math should be correct)

However, should the situation arise, I'll probably re-roll them, as the humans can already get two kills per day if the seer manages to contact the Vigilante...

3. ) Yes, they know who each other are, but they don't know each others' roles.

Oh, and...



4. ) Apparently, it's not in the FAQ, but I'm pretty sure wolves win as soon as they have 50% or more of the remaining players (3 humans and 3 wolves would be immediate game over; Freak, can you confirm this?).

Bah, there it is, right near the beginning of the FAQ: The object of the game is for humans to “kill” all of the wolves without having the wolves outnumber them. The object for the wolves is to lower the number of humans down so they are even or outnumber them in order to win.

However, if the only two people are lovers, then... They both win. Hey, it makes sense, however unlikely it is to happen.

Generally speaking, it doesn't seem like wolves should immediately win when the numbers are tied. Let's say that the day ends with a human lynched, so 3 wolves and 3 humans. A vigilante kills a wolf during the night, and the guardian saves a human, suddenly there are more humans than wolves again. The Rules thread was written a while ago, and some of that stuff doesn't necessarily carry over directly when you add in special roles. Of course, it's a bit different going into the day time, but I figured the idea is that the wolves could simply outnumber the humans in votes, and that's why you end the game. The case with one person on each side seems like a special case (and it was unlikely to come up in earlier games when it could only happen from a guardian save).

Edit: Not that I disagree with your decision, I'm just pointing out why the question is still necessary.

I typed that up fast so that why some thing are unclear.

A seer has to seer the psychopath twice to make it show up as the psychopath. This is to help the psychopath as early on the seer does not have enough time to cheek everyone twice. Once all the wolfs are dead, the psychopath, if still alive, need to stay hidden, but can be revealed, so it the same seer that need to seer him.

The conversion can happen at any time, if the wolfs got a kill last night, or there is no wolfs left. If the wolfs missed a kill last night, due to a Guardian save or what ever, then they have to try at night with the wolfing. If it done at night, the Guardian can stop it by guarding the person targeted to be wolfed or converted.

If the conversion is due to all the other wolfs, are dead there is only one limitation, the psychopath can not be converted, in this case they will be told who it is, and then they will get to pick.

The wolfs must convert if they all die and have a convention left, unless the wizard is alive, then can hold off until the wizard dies, as the wizard is on the wolf's team.

The wizard would see him as a human, otherwise the wolfs might kill him to early.

(I real did type that up fast, 6 Roles, + 3 Wolfs = 9, so we have 7 normal humans. )

The game will end if there is no way for the otherwises to win, assuming logical actions.

So if there is 3 humans, the psychopath , and 3 wolfs + wizard, it still on.
as the psychopath can still win and he could allow the humans to win.


Please poke holes in this if you can find them I want to make sure that everything is clear.

I would like to add an active spectator (Limit 3).

I would also like to change to player count to 16-18 Where based on sign ups I will start with no less then 16, and no more then 18.

I would also like to suggest that spectators get slots in the next game after, if they want them, like the host of the prior game.


Also I plan on co-hosting this with nightstaker, but he has been unreachable, so that I may have some changes here to make.

The psychopath wins if he is equal alive with one other human, or ties if he is alive with 1 wolf (if he been protected before) or 2 (if he has not been) This is to make it harder on the wolfs, so they don't leave him alive then kill him, at the end. The reason for 2 wolfs if he is guarded is that they would just attack each other, and tie out.

I vote for Theslan. The clue thing in my game motivated activity plus I hosted it, and would actually like to play a game in this situation now.

Ah, good point. Perhaps it should be only determined at the end of a night (after all the roles make their move).

I also vote for Theslan That game with freak was fun.

Might I suggest a small change, make the investigator see only the correct clue, so that the Clue manipulator does not have absolute power over the clues.

Sorry, but it stands that the investigator cannot see through the manipulator's work. I think you are overestimating how much power the clue manipulator has. He has to be able to find the room with the clue, and then change it. Unless he starts in a room with a clue in it, he won't be able to change it until night 2.

Oh, and to clarify the clue manipulator's role... if he finds a clue in the room, he can change it during that night. Of course, he does not have to change the clue... he could just ignore it.

"Oh, and to clarify the clue manipulator's role... if he finds a clue in the room, he can change it during that night. Of course, he does not have to change the clue... he could just ignore it."

When will players get clue responses? If it's the end of the night like in Freak83's game, they won't have a chance to change the clue during the night. That's also the only way to account for deciding who gets the clue if multiple people are in the room, as far as I can tell.

Good point. All clues are revealed at the end of the night.

In this particular case, the clue manipulator can change it during the day. Essentially he gets one chance to change the clue when he finds it. The next time he wants to change it, he has to change it before the end of the night.

So the due dates are like this:

First night: he finds a clue. He has until the next day to PM me if he wants to change the clue.
Second night: He does not need to search again for the same clue. However, he has until the end of that night to tell me if he wants to change the clue.

NOTE: In order for him to change the clue for the second night, he needs to stay in the room. He cannot change the clue and move on to another room to search for another clue.

I was trying to decide between Theslan and Eternaly_Lost (EMP_Demon's game is too plain for me), but I think I want to do another clue game, so I'm gonna go with Theslan.

Vote count
Theslan (3) - Freak83, Eternaly_Lost, im_lost

What rules are we going to use for the active spectator? Obviously they can talk in IRC and post on the forum. I'm thinking they shouldn't be allowed to have private conversations with anyone playing in the game; maybe living players could be allowed to give them information privately to influence their thoughts, but the spectator couldn't say anything privately to other players. One way or another, it needs to be decided before the game starts.

The way I had interpreted it when I thought of the idea was such as follows:

The active spectator have the exact same access to the game as any normal spectator would. They would be able to view the forum thread and watch what goes on in the IRC channel. The only difference between an active and a non-active spectator would be that the active one could post in the game thread as well. He would have no extra information provided to him.

That being said, it was my interpretation and it's up to the game host whether or not they choose to use it that way or somehow else.

I should note that in my game, it is very probable that the active spectator will have some indirect clues to the combination words you need to get the artifact. He is allowed to comment and post on the thread. He will have no idea who's role is who, but a player could try to pry the clues out of him. Of course, he could just post the clue he received on the forums, but that's just silly.

I don't have the time at the moment to dedicate to playing a game properly, but i am always following the game online, and would love to take on the active spectator role in any game that hosts it.

As I can't actually play at the moment, i don't think it will be fair to cast a vote in these elections, so i won't..

More voters would be great.

I might as well add some competition, I vote for Eternaly_Lost.

New vote count:
Theslan (2) - Freak83, im_lost
Eternaly_Lost (1) - Eternaly_Lost

EMP_Demon I like the random vigilante and lovers idea

EMP_Demon... The clue roles seem a bit much, particularly the manipulator... And the extra wolves are a nice idea, but still a bit too close to the "standard" game... I like games with new (Well, new to us) roles, just to mix things up a bit.

I like Emp Demon's game size and and roles, but it's too human biased. Perhaps you could edit in some special wolf perks?
I like Theslan's idea too, although it has the same problem.
E_lost's is my favorite right now-it might be too wolf biased though(the wolf conversion sounds good, but it needs some limits. I don't think it should be allowed after a certain time. An end game conversion is too overpowering, but a mid-game one would add the necessary confusion the wolves need)

No vote yet, soon though.

I should add that I probably won't play next round as my RL is pretty crazy these next few months (moving from CA to MD in march) --- so you might want to strike my vote from the record, I shouldn't have voted - sorry!!

I'm not sure if I'm eligible to vote if I've not played before. (Tho I've been reading the last two games)

Anyway, Eternally_Lost please.

I figured that having 5 wolves would do the trick, as well as the likelihood of taking down two humans at once or taking a human down with one of the wolves... I wasn't aware it WAS human-biased!

@GrayDuck, nope! As long as you can make an informed opinion that's great! You don't need to be planning to play in the next one to vote.

@Zor2, your vote is definatly valid! Look forward to playing with you!

Theslan (2) - Freak83, im_lost
Eternaly_Lost (2) - Eternaly_Lost, Zor2
EMP_Demon (2) - GrayDuck, Xentor

I left off most restrictions because i felt that with 2 seers, if they manage to link up, although hard to do so, due to the other seer appearing as a wolf, it would be very bad on the wolfs. This lets the wolfs have a way to get in on the seer's network mid game or allow them to stay alive if the get a bad run. as two of them can die on a night day cycle.

I'll go with theslan. I like clues, as long as they don't lead to a retardedly overpowered object that's not counterable in any fashion. Not that it's happened like that before or anything.

But it was counterable. Night-kill Comprox, night-kill me.

How were the wolves to know that Comprox was the guardian? :|

I was thinking, that I might want to add a mini game to what I want to host. Nothing major, but something that I think would let the active spectators have more to talk about. But I wanted to know what you guys would think about it, and if it was to late to add.

Basically my mini game would have deaths each night be associated with some different stories.

An example of what I am think is this.


(person a) wandered out into the garden. He was angry, he had just escape from the mob of people who wanted to lynch him, looking around he saw a good place to hide, it was behind a statue. move up close he could see that it was of some large animal, it reminded him of a rhino, but it was not a rhino. Looking around it he found a spot to hide, in the bushes near by. Getting into the location quickly, he drops down, carefully watching the path he took in so that he would be able to run if needed. Seething the mob enter, he stop breathing, watching them move around the statue. He hear the mob pass by. Sighing with relief for escaping for now, he starts to stand up, causing a switch to trip. The last thing he feels is the warm breath of something behind him, then most darkness. (person a) shows up dead next to the statue later that day.

You would have to tell me what killed him, in this case, or in others, where it came from, ect.

I would award points to people based on the order I get to correct solution to each day's problem.
So the first one correct would get 3 points. The next 2 points. The third 1 point.

This would be open to even the people who where lynched and would (I hope) increase the talking of people in the channel, talking about it.

I would have very general clues in the story, but each spectator would have the solution. They could talk about it, gives hints, but not tell anyone what it was.

So what do you think? ( and who here knows the answer to that one? )

What would the points do? Basically, why would we try to get them, besides being able to say "I got the high score" at the end of the game?

I was thinking maybe have them trade able in for hints. So you could say trade in 3 point to get a yes/no question answers like this: is the seer alive? Or trade in 9 points to find out someone role (like a one time seer).


Although I need to make a chart, I would plan to do this, and then I would have to make 2 charts then, one for people left alive, and one for those who are dead.

let see here.

1 points : Hint at next answer.
2 points : // need idea
3 points : Simple yes/no question answered, is the seer alive? And the like.

4 points : //Need idea
5 points : //need idea
6 points : Total numbers of one thing left. Example, How many wolfs left?

7 points : Weak wolf protection, Immune to one wolfing, but can not be guarded next night and name is
reveled during the next day,

8 points : Weak lynch protection, acts as -1 vote against you.
9 points : Role of one person

10 points : lynching vote counts for double
11 points : //need idea
12 points : (that would require getting 4 days in a row) Wolfing/lynching protection for one night/day.

To get 12 points would require being the first to guess correctly the question 4 days in a row.

With 16 people @ 2 death per night/day average That 8 days. So I think that chart might be good.

And yes, you can boost that you got all them correct.

And for this idea, A fairer method to get points. If you got the points during the day, then you can not get the ones for the night.

This is not a given for my game yet. It still an idea in progress and would depend on where or not people like it. Right now my game is as stands in the prior posts.

I think it sounds interesting but too large an addition to your current game, plus for the moment you're just fiddling around with ideas. For this game, I would suggest leave it out - modify it and tweak it to perfection so next time you apply to host it's ready.

Theslan (3) - Freak83, im_lost, TheAdj
Eternaly_Lost (2) - Eternaly_Lost, Zor2
EMP_Demon (2) - GrayDuck, Xentor

I do not think EMP Demon's is so much towards humans. At the worst case scenario(for wolves), the random Vigilante will kill a wolf most of the time, and the lovers are a wolf and a wolf; but that's the worst case scenario for wolves, it could happen with humans too.

Like lovers are the humans, and the random vigilante ends up killing the lovers early on for a double human kill and then the random vigilante ends up killing only humans.

I'll choose EMP Demon's game, it seems pretty interesting.

Changing my vote to EMP_Demon.

Theslan (2) - im_lost, TheAdj
Eternaly_Lost (2) - Eternaly_Lost, Zor2
EMP_Demon (4) - GrayDuck, Xentor, Petco, Freak83

This voting has been going on for a while so I'm going to now set an end time.

The player with the most votes at 12:00 AM EST tonight will be the new host of TWG XI.

Ah, 1200 AM EST today already passed freak. It midnight, so it is officially today.

I think you where meaning to say is tomorrow at 12:00 am, also know as 00:00 .

Otherwise EMP_Demon would have already won.

Ahhhh well, you knew what I meant

Theslan (2) - im_lost, TheAdj
Eternaly_Lost (1) - Zor2
EMP_Demon (5) - GrayDuck, Xentor, Petco, Freak83, Eternaly_Lost

And that's it! EMP_Demon is the host for TWG XI!!!

To those people watching this topic, the signups for TWG XI will start Feb. 11th at 3:00 PM EST in this topic.