Hello, I remade ns_origin.

[attachmentid=35508]

Thanks to my faithful servants meb, renholder and mike for early build tests and suggestions. Thanks to all who tested the map and made suggestions prior to this release. Thanks to cadaver who made the original map and the people who originally helped him. And of course, thanks JazzX for the minimaps.

Updated to beta 7:
Download beta 7 here (thanks puzl for hosting)

Beta 6 to beta 7 changelog:
- Lighting more accurate to old origin, with a few intentional changes
- Fixed being able to stop the Cargo Bay elevators after blocking them for a few seconds
- Added an extra vent entrance North-East of Biodome leading to the already existing vent system
- Added a weldable vent leading directly to Power Core
- Modified Power Core and its resource node placement
- Reduced the length of the hallway North-West of Biodome
- Added an extra column North of Biodome (protecting the resource node from long distance shooting)
- Changed the Biodome / Ventilation vent so it has some elevation in it, preventing being able to shoot aliens at a long distance on one side of the vent
- Updated minimaps and added Power Core to the labelled minimaps (thanks JazzX)

That's all I can remember

Updated full changelog:
Gameplay changes:
- Biodome elevators replaced with stairs
- Added two extra columns in Biodome, one on each side of the room (beta 7)
- Moved Xenoform Research resource node to Power Core
- Moved Biodome node to North-East of Biodome
- Raised Ventilation area, so the Cargo Bay ladders are shorter
- Modified the small hallway between Furnace and Ore Extraction
- Raised Ore Extraction's ceiling and lowered its length to fit the above change
- Added a vent leading to Coolant Monitoring from the Furnace/Ventilation vent
- Added a vent connecting the two vent systems above Cargo Bay
- Connected the 2 vent systems in the Biodome/Power Core area (beta 7)
- Added an extra vent entrance North-East of Biodome leading to the already existing vent system (beta 7)
- Added a weldable vent leading directly to Power Core (beta 7)
- Moved Furnace hive 32 units to the east (beta 7)
- All transparent textured railings now block shots (Cargo bay, Computer Lab, etc.)
- Tranparent textured floors in Lava Catwalk now block shots (commander can now drop things on it)
- Cargo Bay elevators now don't instantly kill players (they do 45 damage / second)
- Hallway between Cargo Bay and Ore Extraction is now accessible for an onos
- Ore Scanner is now much more commander friendly

Bug fixes:
- Famous stuck points in Ventilation are gone
- Biodome floor fixed
- Weird particle effect in Cargo Bay fixed
- Various restricted clipping areas removed

Esthetic changes:
- Small architecture changes in many areas
- Many texturing changes
- Heavily modified ready room
- Modified the lighting in many areas

Comments and posts of awe accepted.

Happy fragging

*** Dedicated to [t]Annihilator, NS's all-time best commander ***

It appears the labelled minimaps didn't quite make it into the zip. I have attached them to this post. To use them unzip them into your "...\steam\steamapps\<dir>\half-life\nsp\sprites\minimaps" folder, and let them overwrite any files it finds there.

Why did you remake Origin? Did they lose the map source?

Cheers,
~ DarkATi

Just did a quick run around, I think I like the layout changes.

If I'm going to nitpick, and it's something I could live with, it's the lighting. I don't know if it's intended or not in your version, but the light seems to flood the map more than the old version.

I loaded up the original real quickley, and I can see that the spotlights are more pronounced in the original and the texture lighting is a bit more low key. The white light was the primary colour and it was accented here and there with colour. It's as though the original only used bounce 1 or more fade.

The hallway outside comp lab going to ms is a good example I think... the blue floods the area now, wihle before it came straight down from the lights, leaving the wall above the lights darker. This gave it a bit more contrast. (I'm not complaining too much... Having just recreated my .rad file after forgetting to transfer it to my new machine, I realize this is something that takes a lot of tweaking and compile time to get right!)

Anyway, that's my first impressions. The new architecture looks good and if the map needed remaking, good on ya for taking up the task!

[Edit] DOH!

Heh I wrote that before I'd seen the changes, and I have to say I'm impressed. The vent between Vent and Furnace is now staggered so you can't camp one end of it and see all the way down. Bio Hive has no lifts (!), which should make it a LOT more Onos-friendly. The RT in the holo projection corridor has now been moved much closer to Bio (into the room with the big spinney reactor), and the Vent-Furnace vent now has another branch that takes it through the middle of the map towards Bio (but without going throgh double, which is great!). All in all excellent changes.

Only problem is I think you actually made the Vent-Bio vent longer than it used to be (and it's still straight!). Nevertheless I badly want to play this, so tell us which servers are running it!

DarkATI, the souce was lost and the map had a lot of bugs, stuckpoints and stuff.

It's one of the best maps so I've been waiting for this one, thx Menes <3

it would help if you told us what exactly you changed. from the overview you provided, it looks the same as the original

Looking at the overview i can spot 1 layout change. Look at bio hive where the elevator is. Very top left of the map..


Found another.
Look at the vent that leads from ore processing to vent hive.

I wish mineshaft would get remade like this. Loved that map

The map feels way too bright. Especially in ore extraction where it's supposed to be a bit darker there. The brightness makes the map feel washed out. In the transition from marine start to comp labs the hall leaving marine start feels fine but as you get past the first junction you notice the bluish lights are way too bright.

Overall though the layout looks great.

The Changelog:
Gameplay changes:
- Biodome elevators replaced with stairs
- Moved Xenoform Research resource node to Power Core
- Raised Ventilation area, so the Cargo Bay ladders are shorter
- Modified the hallway between Furnace and Ore Extraction
- Added a vent leading to Coolant Monitoring from the Furnace/Ventilation vent
- Added a vent connecting the two vent systems above Cargo Bay
- All transparent textured railings now block shots (Cargo bay, Computer Lab, etc.)
- Tranparent textured floors in Lava Catwalk now block shots
- Cargo Bay elevators now don't instantly kill players (they do 45 damage / second)

Bug fixes:
- Famous stuck points in Ventilation are gone
- Biodome floor fixed
- Weird particle effect in Cargo Bay fixed
- Various restricted clipping areas removed

Esthetic changes:
- Small architecture changes in many areas
- Many texturing changes
- Heavily modified ready room
- Modified the lighting in many areas

This man is a genius. I would work to recreate the pure sexual loveliness of mineshaft.

Good work on the origin remake guys! It's amazing how important the official classic maps become to people and how they are looked after long after the original designer has moved on to other things.

thank you menes. Now we can play origin in cal again.

Nice! this will be in 3.2 Final?


EDIT: .res file is missing for downloading minimaps

Reading the changelog and looking at the minimap it looks like a job well done.

One suggestion (carried over from the old origin): bio hive was gimped not just because xeno was a hard node to defend, but because it's a pain in the ###### getting to ventilation- the crawl space from bio to vent takes you on a magical journey to the centre of the map (nearly). Maybe just have a straight vent from the east side of biodome to above ventilation? As well, the length of the current vent means a marine can sit in it and completely block off that route on his own.

Also, perhaps consider a vent from furnace to smelter. The secondary route into that room requires you to go through ore extraction, but I guess that's not too bad.

we would probably test this map today in ensl nightcup http://ensl.zanith.nl/nsnc and we will write our feelings from clanwars on it.

I agree the vent atm is too straight, but you can't really shorten it or it will make it super easy for Aliens starting in Vent or Bio hives to lock down both Hives minutes into the game.

I think that, apart from Vent-Bio not having any hidey-holes or alcoves to stop mid-way, the layout looks incredibly solid. This should definitely be considered for official status pending further playtests.

One last thing I noticed is that you made complab harder to attack for Marines coming from Marine Start. Atm the 'window' has been shortened meaning that it takes slightly longer for you to lay eyes on the res node, giving Alien skulks and extra couple of bites before they can be attacked. Given that the Marine RT health has just been reduced as well, this might cause problems (not to mention the railings in there now blocking bullets).

Also are the doors in Marine Start slower? I know the one in the corner is smaller, which I agree with, but they also seem slower, too.

Great work, and a fun map to explore (I don't remember playing much of origin).

I hate making little bug reports when there are possibly larger more important ones in play, but I found that as an Onos in ventilation I couldn't charge out of the room due to the slopes on the floor-girder leading up to the corridor. My Onos would just fly up vertically when hitting the slope. Clipping the slopes off with square clip brushes would solve that, so it looks like a slope but behaves like steps.

Those fire particle effects are to die for.

Agreed, Crispy. IIRC the mapping guidelines states that it should take ~30s to get between hives (or was that just MS-> hive?).

If a vent makes that time too short- maybe a complete corridor from bio vent.

Ala:



The problem with the above is that it could "do a bast" and that extra corridor (like the corridor from engine to -the room where the rotating door used to be- in bast) doesn't have any RTs and thus has little significance on its own, which would dilute gameplay.

Still, something to consider, I believe.

Computer lab is identical to the original computer lab, with the exception of texturing, some physical light placement and the smoothed corner near the hallway going to xeno. Both "windows" are 96 units long, so it is an illusion, as all other dimensions in that room are the exact same in width/height.

As for the marine start doors, they are both exactly the same as the original ones, not only for their dimensions, but also their speed (75 units / second).

Also, note that using the original ns_origin minimap with the new origin will work perfectly for all areas, except biodome, ore extraction, power core rt spot and some vents.

After a short run in an empty lan svr I'd say this is a huge improvement. The new biodome hive looks awesome and probably works well too. Looking forward to see how the sieges work there. Raising the vent area probably makes comming a lot easier there.

The lighting feels a bit plain sometimes (c-lab and the ladder from dbl to vent for instance), but it really doesn't matter. I'm fine with it as long as I can see the skulks this good.

A huge improvement indeed.

Edit: The extra corridor would have to go quite far away from the hives unless you want to have a double-hive siegespot la hera processing. Unless its just a ventilation shaft with vent llamas of its own. Hera in 2.0 btw.

thanks I was still thinking of how to fix this, but never thought of stairs

Sherpa, I'd rather make small curves in the current vent to fix marine camping than make a whole new hallway above there, that would do the trick just fine

Sounds good to me, Menes

Just remember that Origin has a unique layout so not all aspects of the OMGs apply to it. Since the shortest distance between the Hives is isually via vents, the travel time should be shorter to compensate.

Ooo, you can sit on the blue wall-lights in double now! I love the remake already <3

The only thing I'm not entierly sure about is the entire tieing together the vent systems thing. One of the charms of origin was that you actually could cut off alien movement paths somewhat. I don't know, it just doesn't feel good. I've never been a fan of vent systems that span entire maps as opposed to short vents in important places.

[Edit] ESPECIALLY the vent from double, tying that up with the one leading down to ventilation loses some of the tactical advantages of trapping a life form there. It's a about the small things

`very nice work
above my expectations, keep it up!

i like that its been redone, lot of things needed to be changed... but why did u give railings the ability to block shots? thats something that drives a lot of ppl crazy in most maps. just make the railings func_illusionary and pop a clip brush over.. ppl will be happier.

after a quick run around.. i have to agree.. the lighting needs tweaking.. origin, the primary color was white and everything else was accent. now u got hallways that are entirely.. blue, red, green... and dark also. its a good step in the right direction... but lighting does need some tweaking

That suggestion could also "do a hera version 1" A possible dual siege location on the two hives, bio and vent. Adding a RT there could work to make the area more significant, but the siege issue has to be kept in check for it to work at all ^^

How is processing good for sieging more than just datacore? You can't siege vent from processing

You used to be able to, anime. Things have changed over the years

My suggestion would be from the small vent-room south-east of Bio (with exits on the left, right, and bottom... the right one going to Vent). Maybe move the Vent exit from that room so that it's on the North side? Then, have it go 90 degrees right, then 90degrees left, to come to the original entrance into Vent. It will up the corners from 2 to 3, possibly being just enough to fix the long LOS issue.

I agree with sherpa though I don't like where he's going with the corridor idea for the reasons he mentioned.

What about this? The red lines show a vent-sized network for aliens adjusted to make the vents a little shorter in general. The blue lines denote a new walkway for marines that avoids double entirely making it alot easier to get from biodome to ventilation hive. The vent system could be out of reach (and probably out of sight-ish) for marines from industrial so the vent is still predominantly alien-use only. The new corridor could be made very alien-friendly to compensate for it's added value to marines. You would probably have to adjust the position of the walkway slightly or put something that blocks line of sight (that doesn't look stupid) so that marines can't see right into generator room.

http://img259.imageshack.us/my.php?image=n...wrevised3un.jpg

sherpa eat your heart out

Great job with this. Got great feedback on my server! Also, might want to add the .res file to the zip so the minimaps download.

http://onovia.com/files/index.php?dir=&...rigin_beta6.res

i like that idea tweadle... an onos does need a way out of vent besides the ladder..
i also dont like how the ladder was shortened, it feels way way too short, but it was too far before... that and the lights and i'd be happy.

Nice work, I like the layout changes at biodome and furnace.
I have a few reservations about the new lighting though. Here are some comparisons so I can explain myself. All screenshots have the correct light level adjustments. Obviously the brightness etc varies depending on hardware/ns configuration, but that shouldn't really matter.

Old ready room


New ready room


The old ready room in this shot is a bit darker, and the colored light is more confined. In the new version the light is brighter, and more washed out. Personally I think the original looks better.


Old cargo


New cargo


The new cargo is far brighter, and is very washed out. I don't think the lighting really works here.


Old ore scanner


New ore scanner


Again, in the remake, the red lighting is very bright and washed out to some degree. I think the original has a better balance of light and dark.


Old lava catwalk


New lava catwalk


I think in the new version lava catwalk's lighting is a bit overdone. It's washed out, and because of that, theres no real sense of where the yellow glow is emanating from.

I think that last screen of the scanner is a very good example of excessive use of colour. The light is so bright it actually harms the overall composition because the stark ceiling texture is highlighted instead of hidden in the shadows as big featureless celings should be

At the end of the day, though, layout > lighting (not to say lighting isn't part of gameplay, but layout is more important imo).

Honestly don't go crazy with the Vent-Bio vent, it doesn't need a radical overhaul to make it fairer, just some spots where you can duck into cover. It shouldn't be an 'easy' route for Aliens because of how much of a shortcut it is (and bearing in mind how slowly vanilla Marines and HAs move through it).

Great work! The changes are good. The only nitpicketing thing I would say (as most people have) is the lighting. It seems to change too suddenly from area to area as theres a relatively big contrast in the colours. Individually, they look nice, its just when you move between them.

Edit: It actually seems I differ slightly from those who posted above me. I don't mind the brightness/darkness levels of the maps. Just the sudden change of colours/hues from one area to the next. The actual brightness/washed out look is alright to me.

I have to agree with the lighting being too bright & washed out

Adding a new hallway/vent linking biodome and ventilation is definitely not a good idea. As I said, making angled vents is a better solution to marine camping. However, there were much greater gameplay issues with the original origin, and that's what I'm concentring on right now. I will slightly modify the vent between biodome and ventilation for next build, but I'm awaiting more feedback on the current gameplay until then.

As for lighting, I will see what I can do, but it does take a lot of time to get the right values.

edit

great remake, the only thing i don't like is xeno rt and biodome main hive rt it's way too easy to take those down.

Pcw'd yesterday (something around mid-skill):

Probably the feedback everyone can give, but I guess it doesn't hurt posting these.

PG at industrial is quite painful to take out in 3.2 if aliens are holding furn and vent. The lift is quite risky for an onos and 3.2 fades can't always make the difference. At the same time aliens can cap max 3 rt:s while marines pretty much have the rest. The dbl ladders are sometimes a bit tricky for the onoses too.

We managed to stand against an ore siege with 2 hives, onos, 1 or 2 fades and a lerk. Its still a bit cramped, but felt pretty much balanced to me.

Not much else to mention after just one pcw, probably too early to give even this much feedback.

i like the new lights

Well, the new lights are simply GREAT !
Now this map has a particular ambiance. Menes hold the same spirit as the original one but gave it some impressive esthetic beauty.
Moreover, some parts seem more logical like the corridor between ore extraction and doubles, now it seems like it was thought to carry minerals or anything from ore to doubles.

But Menes forgot one of the most important things of this map : the chairs in computer lab !!!!!!!!
Now he just has to restart from the begining. :x

Now that ive actually done a run around, gotta say, beautiful work.

I especially love the newly designed areas & the old areas without the clips. A perfect example is in Furnace; you can actually get up into that middle pillar thing, and theres plenty of room to drop ups or anything. Awesome.

The lighting didnt bother me much. Its brighter, which can be a good thing. But some areas like Double do seem to be missing a bit of the contrast. Maybe even a simple recompile with a lower bounce setting?

Real Art, i was waiting for that map. What is one of the best maps in NS. Nice job and keep up the good work i hope i can play PCW soon on that map.

Probably asked before, but is this version map going to replace the one in ns3.2 beta2/final? It still has an official one yaknow

I also have a question:

When can constellation members expect to playtest this map? For great justice.

Whenever they want?

Maybe try setting -fade 2.0 or so. This will result in the light not travelling as far. -bounce 1 could also do the trick. These are both compile-time options and definately worth experimenting with. If this is the first thing you do, you'll probably find the map gets very dark. However, it can be easier to add light than subtract light anyway. (I find at least...) Match the texture lights first, then worry about the spotlights, etc.

Whats wrong with the lights?
Why does every ns map need to be dark or have uber dark corners.....
The brightness on this map is perfect and the light scheme on every room looks ok...
Clean rooms/walls, (+)(+)

"Contrast" is something that is a part of ns maps because it can help the atmosphere. It can make lighting more realistic, or it can simply help set the "mood" or ambience of a room. It is a major component of a good looking map. The lighting as it is, is okay, but it could be better with a bit of tweaking.